Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
538 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 739

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 923926 times)

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22400 on: May 11, 2019, 10:30:52 AM »
Perhaps Corbyn should take tips from Jurgen Klopp and call unequivocally for a People's Vote.
Boom!

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22401 on: May 11, 2019, 06:03:40 PM »
Quote
Labour will never be the party of the 52 per cent or of the 48 per cent.
No shit.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22402 on: May 11, 2019, 07:02:51 PM »
Generational thing?

edit: Just to be clear, this is polling for a General Election - Cornerflag's posted the European election one on the thread for that.

Opinium, 8th May. Changes with 23rd April.

LAB  28 (-5)
CON  22 (-4)
BREX  21 (+4)
LD  11 (+5)
UKIP  4 (-)
CHUK  4 (-)
GRN  6 (+2)

Last time the combined Tory and Labour vote share polled below 50% for Westminster was December 1981. Peak SDP/Liberals at 50%+ with Tories and Labour both in the low 20s.

One thing which still seems very unclear is how anyone gets anything through parliament without splitting one or both of the main parties further.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 07:44:12 PM by Zeb »
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22403 on: May 11, 2019, 07:05:50 PM »
So are 75% of those voters pro Brexit then? If of course Labour is a Brexit party as stated.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22404 on: May 11, 2019, 07:22:21 PM »
So are 75% of those voters pro Brexit then? If of course Labour is a Brexit party as stated.

Certainly voting for pro-Brexit parties. Tables for this aren't out but I'd lay money that both Labour and Tories are increasingly shifting to having a more 'remainery' base. Like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife etc.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Trada

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22405 on: May 11, 2019, 07:46:43 PM »
Generational thing?

edit: Just to be clear, this is polling for a General Election - Cornerflag's posted the European election one on the thread for that.

Opinium, 8th May. Changes with 23rd April.

LAB  28 (-5)
CON  22 (-4)
BREX  21 (+4)
LD  11 (+5)
UKIP  4 (-)
CHUK  4 (-)
GRN  6 (+2)

Last time the combined Tory and Labour vote share polled below 50% for Westminster was December 1981. Peak SDP/Liberals at 50%+ with Tories and Labour both in the low 20s.

One thing which still seems very unclear is how anyone gets anything through parliament without splitting one or both of the main parties further.

It doesn't make sense their poll from the day before.

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 30% (-3)
CON: 25% (-1)
BXP: 17% (=)
LDM: 11% (+5)
GRN: 5% (+1)
UKIP: 4% (=)
CHUK: 2% (-2)

Via @OpiniumResearch, 3-7 May. Changes w/ 21-23 Apr.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22406 on: May 11, 2019, 07:52:02 PM »
It doesn't make sense their poll from the day before.

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 30% (-3)
CON: 25% (-1)
BXP: 17% (=)
LDM: 11% (+5)
GRN: 5% (+1)
UKIP: 4% (=)
CHUK: 2% (-2)

Via @OpiniumResearch, 3-7 May. Changes w/ 21-23 Apr.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22407 on: May 11, 2019, 07:52:14 PM »
It doesn't make sense their poll from the day before.

Westminster Voting Intention:

LAB: 30% (-3)
CON: 25% (-1)
BXP: 17% (=)
LDM: 11% (+5)
GRN: 5% (+1)
UKIP: 4% (=)
CHUK: 2% (-2)

Via @OpiniumResearch, 3-7 May. Changes w/ 21-23 Apr.

Looks like the same poll but your version of it is mangled? Or at least differs to that which has gone into the Observer.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/11/brexit-party-may-get-more-eu-election-votes-than-tories-and-labour-combined-poll

edit: could be different polls actually but same rough theme, accounting for margin of error.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 07:57:53 PM by Zeb »
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22408 on: May 11, 2019, 09:27:17 PM »
Telegraph have a poll tomorrow that has the Brexit Party ahead of the Tories in would-be General Election voting intentions:

https://twitter.com/edwardmalnick/status/1127302582949617664



49 seats is the Brexit Party prediction. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/11/brexit-party-beats-tories-general-election-poll-would-win-49/

Quote
The Brexit Party has overtaken the Conservatives in national polling for the first time, with Nigel Farage predicted to win 49 seats in a general election, a bombshell poll reveals.

A ComRes survey found that if a general election campaign led by Theresa May took place now, it would put the Tories on course for their worst result in history – apparently confirming the fears of Conservative MPs and activists in uproar over the Prime Minister’s handling of Brexit.

Labour would become the largest party by a margin of 137 seats, allowing Jeremy Corbyn to lead a minority government as the Tories fell to third place in terms of vote share.

Brandon Lewis, the party chairman, Penny Mordaunt, the Defence...

Rest is behind a paywall.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22409 on: May 11, 2019, 10:09:52 PM »
It will be easy for the Brexit party to do well in the EU election lets be honest its doesn't really matter and I bet it will get a 20% turn out.

Just saw a bit of video of a Brexit party rally on Twitter its all very staged and American you can tell hes had advice from people like Bannon it won't be to long until the catchphrases and nick names start.

But its a different matter when people vote in a GE and their choices really effects their lives and the Brexit party have no policies and when they do it will be very Right Wing but I imagine a few left wing ideal thrown into the mix its will be all about trying to get votes by saying anything.

Odd that the MSM and lot on here was saying what the UK need is a Pro remain, Pro PV center of the road party and people will flock to them....... like fuck.

Jeremy has been spot on with brexit policies Labour made some good inroads in seats they need to win and it will pay off in the next GE when Labour wins it.

And why is the war criminal Blair still a member of the Labour party hes on TV again tomorrow telling members to vote for another party. Some Labour councilors this week were remove from the party for doing the same during the local election.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 10:21:11 PM by Big Jezza’s Jizza »
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22410 on: May 11, 2019, 10:20:28 PM »
Agree with the bit about Brexit Party benefiting from European election polling. If you've missed what's happened to the Labour vote, a lot of the remain portion is now currently in the Lib Dems, Change, and the Greens. Tories will tack towards the Brexit party before the next election to regain their voters. Looking forward to Jez telling remainers he's got some great pro-Brexit policies guaranteed to fire them up for his Labour government delivering them...
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22411 on: May 11, 2019, 11:37:41 PM »
It will be easy for the Brexit party to do well in the EU election lets be honest its doesn't really matter and I bet it will get a 20% turn out.

Just saw a bit of video of a Brexit party rally on Twitter its all very staged and American you can tell hes had advice from people like Bannon it won't be to long until the catchphrases and nick names start.

But its a different matter when people vote in a GE and their choices really effects their lives and the Brexit party have no policies and when they do it will be very Right Wing but I imagine a few left wing ideal thrown into the mix its will be all about trying to get votes by saying anything.

Odd that the MSM and lot on here was saying what the UK need is a Pro remain, Pro PV center of the road party and people will flock to them....... like fuck.

Jeremy has been spot on with brexit policies Labour made some good inroads in seats they need to win and it will pay off in the next GE when Labour wins it.

And why is the war criminal Blair still a member of the Labour party hes on TV again tomorrow telling members to vote for another party. Some Labour councilors this week were remove from the party for doing the same during the local election.
Seriously.Corbyn has been a complete disaster when it comes to Brexit. calling for art 50 to be invoked straight after the referendum without having a clue on the implications was bad enough but he took this even further when announcing to the world that Labour would not stand in the way of the Tories triggering ART 50, May laid down her red lines towards the end of 2016. she argued we have to leave the SM+CU, Corbyn once again fell into line and stopped arguing for the Norway Brexit he argued for only 2/3months before during the leadership election.I haven't seen anyone hit him with this question.

 Why did Corbyn argue for a Norway SM Brexit after the referendum and during the leadership election but completely drop this option when May told him we have to leave the SM+CU ?

I can only assume Labour members were won over by Mays arguments over leaving the SM+CU.
that is unbelievable. Leader of the Labour party wins the leadership arguing for a SM deal yet agrees to the Tory leaders demands on leaving the SM. the Tory leader had more influence on Labour policy and Labour members than the Labour leader.
The big turning point on Brexit was when May was allowed to lay down her red lines unchallenged, those red lines have not only made a deal impossible they are now gospel to the leave nutters, they have helped to split the country in half, Labour needed a strong intelligent leader at this time, they could have had Smith but they chose Corbyn, big mistake.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 12:03:45 AM by oldfordie »
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22412 on: May 12, 2019, 12:47:41 AM »
Seriously.Corbyn has been a complete disaster when it comes to Brexit. calling for art 50 to be invoked straight after the referendum without having a clue on the implications was bad enough but he took this even further when announcing to the world that Labour would not stand in the way of the Tories triggering ART 50, May laid down her red lines towards the end of 2016. she argued we have to leave the SM+CU, Corbyn once again fell into line and stopped arguing for the Norway Brexit he argued for only 2/3months before during the leadership election.I haven't seen anyone hit him with this question.

 Why did Corbyn argue for a Norway SM Brexit after the referendum and during the leadership election but completely drop this option when May told him we have to leave the SM+CU ?

I can only assume Labour members were won over by Mays arguments over leaving the SM+CU.
that is unbelievable. Leader of the Labour party wins the leadership arguing for a SM deal yet agrees to the Tory leaders demands on leaving the SM. the Tory leader had more influence on Labour policy and Labour members than the Labour leader.
The big turning point on Brexit was when May was allowed to lay down her red lines unchallenged, those red lines have not only made a deal impossible they are now gospel to the leave nutters, they have helped to split the country in half, Labour needed a strong intelligent leader at this time, they could have had Smith but they chose Corbyn, big mistake.

As Trada has often told us, Jeremy played a blinder.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22413 on: May 12, 2019, 12:50:47 AM »
As Trada has often told us, Jeremy played a blinder.
#longgame

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22414 on: May 12, 2019, 12:54:53 AM »
Telegraph have a poll tomorrow that has the Brexit Party ahead of the Tories in would-be General Election voting intentions:

https://twitter.com/edwardmalnick/status/1127302582949617664




Hadn't clocked the rest of the thread there.



Also of note is that what is left to the Tories for a vote currently is marginally more remainers than leavers.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 12:56:56 AM by Zeb »
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22415 on: May 12, 2019, 01:12:36 AM »
As Trada has often told us, Jeremy played a blinder.
Yeah, the countries future looks far better since Corbyn became leader of the Labour party.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22416 on: May 12, 2019, 03:15:37 AM »
And why is the war criminal Blair still a member of the Labour party hes on TV again tomorrow telling members to vote for another party. Some Labour councilors this week were remove from the party for doing the same during the local election.

Instead of listening to those dribbling idiots on Twitter that tell you how to think, you might actually read what he has to say in the Observer today. The below is the essence - slightly longer than 140 characters, I grant, and no pictures, so I've split the key paragraphs into tweet-sized pieces, with emphasis, so you have a chance at understanding an argument:

Quote
Who to vote for if you’re on the anti-Farage side of the ledger. There are unequivocal remain parties – Liberal Democrats, Change UK, Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru. If, because of Labour’s equivocation, you simply won’t vote Labour, then vote for them. If, like me, despite everything, you can vote Labour, then vote Labour.

Quote
But whatever you do, vote! This is not a vote to choose a prime minister or a government. It is a vote for the Farage Brexit – or against it.

Quote
I will vote Labour, because I believe ultimately that Labour will be counted on the anti-Farage side of the ledger. The bulk of Labour party members, MPs and voters are against Brexit and certainly against that Brexit advocated by the Brexit party and its fellow travellers in the Conservative party.



https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/11/farage-cannot-be-allowed-to-dictate-britains-future-he-must-be-thwarted
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22417 on: May 12, 2019, 07:11:39 PM »
It will be easy for the Brexit party to do well in the EU election lets be honest its doesn't really matter and I bet it will get a 20% turn out.

Just saw a bit of video of a Brexit party rally on Twitter its all very staged and American you can tell hes had advice from people like Bannon it won't be to long until the catchphrases and nick names start.




Nick names an easy one, welcome on stage  ' Billy Liar'
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22418 on: May 12, 2019, 07:14:06 PM »
Liar indeed...

But it worked for Trump. And it’s working for this piece of shit too.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22419 on: May 12, 2019, 07:18:57 PM »
Liar indeed...

But it worked for Trump. And it’s working for this piece of shit too.

That's because the world is full of gullible people who believe any shite they are told.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22420 on: May 12, 2019, 07:31:18 PM »
Who Brexit Party voters voted for in 2017:

Conservatives 72%
Labour 15%
UKIP 5%
Didn't vote 3%

Who Brexit Party voters voted for in 2015:

Conservatives 40%
UKIP 34%
Labour 14%
Didn't vote 5%
Lib Dems 3%


Opinium data #Brexit #EP2017
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22421 on: May 12, 2019, 07:34:42 PM »
Who Brexit Party voters voted for in 2017:

Conservatives 72%
Labour 15%
UKIP 5%
Didn't vote 3%

Who Brexit Party voters voted for in 2015:

Conservatives 40%
UKIP 34%
Labour 14%
Didn't vote 5%
Lib Dems 3%


Opinium data #Brexit #EP2017
This begs the question as to why the Labour Party still has the policy of leaving the EU
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22422 on: May 12, 2019, 07:44:12 PM »
For every voter Labour has lost to other Brexit parties since 2017, they've lost two to pro-Remain parties. (Check Westminster VI in polls for months now to see that.) Which shouldn't surprise anyone but those who imagine Labour voters 'up north' are all Brexit voting whippet owners.

Bridget Phillipson (Sunderland MP) keeps trying to make that point, to little avail so far. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/04/local-elections-politics-brexit-sunderland

Quote
They look at seats, but not votes, and stop asking questions. But in the real modern city of Sunderland, the Green Party picked up their first ever seat, while the local Liberal Democrats had a good night too. It was the day Sunderland’s remain-backing Labour supporters – and there are lots of them because the city’s a big place where more people voted remain than in Cambridge – gave us a bloody nose and showed us their support is not unconditional. Even where Ukip won seats it was because the Labour vote went off to the Greens, the Lib Dems or stayed at home, rather than turning to the far right.

All this is a reminder to politicians as much as journalists that it’s people who vote, not places. There are plenty living in what are sometimes called “Labour heartlands” who have never voted Labour in their lives – and plenty more who resent being taken for granted. There are also many electors who haven’t been prepared to vote Labour recently for reasons unrelated to Brexit, partly reflecting the slow change in Labour away from less well-off working people outside London and towards being a party of the big cities.

That pattern held across England – both Labour and the Tories saw votes that have previously been cast for them move elsewhere, above all to the parties that want us to stay in the EU. Parties that have advocated some form of deal that involves leaving the EU – the Tories and Labour – were punished across the country. They lost seats and they lost votes.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 07:47:12 PM by Zeb »
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And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22423 on: May 12, 2019, 07:47:07 PM »
Who Brexit Party voters voted for in 2017:

Conservatives 72%
Labour 15%
UKIP 5%
Didn't vote 3%

Who Brexit Party voters voted for in 2015:

Conservatives 40%
UKIP 34%
Labour 14%
Didn't vote 5%
Lib Dems 3%

Opinium data #Brexit #EP2017

So the Tories could lose a huge majority of their Leave voters who are choosing to go to a more hard line party...

Telegraph have a poll tomorrow that has the Brexit Party ahead of the Tories in would-be General Election voting intentions:

https://twitter.com/edwardmalnick/status/1127302582949617664



Four pro-Remain parties on almost 30% combined...

Odd that the MSM and lot on here was saying what the UK need is a Pro remain, Pro PV center of the road party and people will flock to them....... like fuck.

It's likely there are more Remain votes in play (to be won, or lost at this point) for Labour than there are Leave votes. Their current position of equivocation is either cowardice or cynicism. Both are poor reasons to take a "position", if you can call it that. Gordon Brown made a good point that this divide could last a generation; you'd have to be an idiot to think you could straddle it with any success today.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22424 on: May 12, 2019, 08:59:40 PM »
Starmer's being sent out to try and woo 'remainers'.

Quote
“If the vote that is progressive is split then all that does is open up the path for the Brexit party and allow it to pretend it represents the majority view in this country,” he said. “On the critical issues, like a close economic relationship with the EU, and a confirmatory vote, only Labour can deliver on those.”

He said he feared the lesson of Labour’s net loss of more than 84 seats in the local elections was that it could shed remain voters as well as leavers.

“There is concern in leave areas about whether some of our voters might vote for other parties, but I think there is an increasing concern that some of the Labour remain voters might not vote Labour,” he said. “It is very important that we learn those lessons.”

Quote
Starmer has previously made it clear he believes Labour should back a referendum on any negotiated deal, in contrast to the shadow business secretary, Rebecca Long-Bailey, who has said a referendum may not be necessary if Labour can agree the right deal.

“I’ve made it clear that at this stage, at this 11th hour, any deal that comes through from this government ought to be subject to the lock of a confirmatory vote,” Starmer said.

He said finding a parliamentary majority for any deal, whatever the circumstances, was “very difficult”, and suggested he could not sign up to any agreement if he feared it would fail.

“It has got to be something truly deliverable,” he said. “For many of my colleagues, they have made it clear that they will not vote for a deal without a confirmatory vote attached to it. So if you want that stable majority, that has to be taken into account. And without it, it is impossible to see how the numbers would stack up.”

Guardian

Labour are effectively running two campaigns here. Starmer is not describing 'Labour's alternative plan' either. As one clever political pundit put it, the split has happened across both parties and we're just waiting for the admin to catch-up.

Will be Yougov polling out tomorrow which has been called 'punchy' by one of the academics involved in commissioning it.

edit: here's the GE version.

« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 08:41:01 AM by Zeb »
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And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22425 on: May 14, 2019, 07:00:38 PM »
British Steel seeks government loan for 'Brexit issues'

British Steel has said it is seeking further financial support from the government to help it address "Brexit-related issues".

It follows reports the company needs a loan of up to £75m to keep trading in the coming months.

The UK's second largest steel firm employs 4,500 people, and about 20,000‎ indirectly via its supply chain.

The company said "uncertainties around Brexit are posing challenges for all businesses including British Steel".

It added: "We are holding constructive discussions with our stakeholders on how to navigate them.

"Discussions are continuing about a package of additional support to assist the company address broader Brexit-related issues, whilst continuing with [the company's] investment plans."

A spokesperson for the the Department for Business, Energy and Industry Strategy said: "As this is speculation, we won't be commenting."

British Steel's main plant is at Scunthorpe, but it also has sites in Teesside, Cumbria and North Yorkshire.

The move comes just two weeks after British Steel secured a £100m loan from the government to pay its EU carbon bill.

The money meant the private equity-owned firm could avoid a steep EU fine.

According to Sky News, in recent days the steel maker has met its lenders and the government to discuss another loan.

British Steel has reportedly faced a slump in orders from European customers ‎due to uncertainty over the Brexit process.

It has also been struggling with the prolonged weakness of sterling since the EU referendum in June 2016 and the escalating trade US-China trade war.

Quoting people close to the process, Sky said insolvency experts have been placed on standby in case British Steel cannot secure the funds it needs.

The BBC understands that nationalisation or a management buyout are also being discussed as fall-back options.

The GMB union called on the government to guarantee the future of the firm and safeguard thousands of jobs.

"This government has a track record of sitting on its hands while UK manufacturing collapse round its ears," said Ross Murdoch, GMB national officer.

"Now is the time to take action - ministers must come out and guarantee the loan required to safeguard British Steel."

Private equity firm Greybull Capital rescued Tata Steel's long products business - which makes steel for the rail and construction sectors - during the depths of the steel crisis in 2016, saving more than 4,000 jobs.

It paid a nominal £1 fee for the assets, but pledged to plough up to £400m into the business, which it rebranded British Steel.

Workers had to take pay cuts and reductions in their pensions in return, and the company recently returned to profit.

The news comes days after Tata signalled its planned merger with German rival Thyssenkrupp was off, raising fresh doubts about its Port Talbot site.

Tata said its UK business would keep running, but admitted it was facing tough operating conditions in the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48267688

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22426 on: May 14, 2019, 07:16:06 PM »
Brexit: PM and Corbyn to meet shortly over cross-party talks

Quote
Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn will meet shortly to discuss ongoing Brexit talks between their two parties.

A Labour source told the BBC it was about "keeping in touch" after meetings of both the PM's cabinet and the opposition leader's shadow cabinet.

Earlier, Labour's John McDonnell said there had been no "significant shift" in the government position.

Quote
A Downing Street source told BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg that a compromise was being sought with Labour on customs "as an interim position or a stepping stone".

"We will not sign up to a permanent customs union," the source said.

Quote
On the prospect of another referendum, Mr McDonnell said: "My view is that you'd put the deal to the people, but you'd have to also have the option of the status quo.

"Deep in my heart, I'm still a Remainer, but I've got to try and bring together effectively what is a British compromise."

Asked if Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn was also a Remainer in his heart, the shadow chancellor responded: "Yes."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48271650

Peston says he's been told the talks will probably end on Thursday, but then the journos said they would end last week.

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1128360720419233802

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22427 on: May 14, 2019, 08:58:38 PM »
"No 10 confirms they will bring back withdrawal bill back week after MPs recess - same first week of June as Trump here - less clear whether there will be deal with Labour by then that would give the bill a real chance of passing" - Beeb's Laura Kuenssberg

Believe the stated plan is to then try to go to indicative voting should (when, surely) it fails to get through Parliament. Of course, there's little incentive for anyone opposed to the Withdrawal Bill (whatever new form it takes) to agree to be bound by any further voting which isn't certain to return the result they want. And round and round it goes.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22428 on: May 14, 2019, 09:06:32 PM »
"No 10 confirms they will bring back withdrawal bill back week after MPs recess - same first week of June as Trump here - less clear whether there will be deal with Labour by then that would give the bill a real chance of passing" - Beeb's Laura Kuenssberg

Believe the stated plan is to then try to go to indicative voting should (when, surely) it fails to get through Parliament. Of course, there's little incentive for anyone opposed to the Withdrawal Bill (whatever new form it takes) to agree to be bound by any further voting which isn't certain to return the result they want. And round and round it goes.


And also the By-election in Peterborough.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22429 on: May 14, 2019, 09:11:07 PM »

And also the By-election in Peterborough.

Aye. Although in terms of the Withdrawal Bill, Trump's visit may actually matter if they're trying to win over Tory votes with promises of trade deals with the US. Think story to Peterborough is if Labour fail to retain it, isn't it? Should be a comfortable win for Labour at this stage in the election cycle, even more so as they'll be vigorously opposing the Withdrawal Agreement and pulling in the 'remain' vote?
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And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22430 on: May 15, 2019, 12:51:59 AM »
Am sure Labour would not be in crisis if they had more MPs like Murray. yet we are still stuck with Corbyn.


Ian Murray
‏Verified account @IanMurrayMP

I was on BBC News this evening to discuss the ongoing Brexit talks and why a confirmatory referendum is the only way out of the current impasse.
https://twitter.com/IanMurrayMP/status/1128333091699867649
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22431 on: May 15, 2019, 06:29:57 AM »
Starmer's being sent out to try and woo 'remainers'.

Guardian

Labour are effectively running two campaigns here. Starmer is not describing 'Labour's alternative plan' either. As one clever political pundit put it, the split has happened across both parties and we're just waiting for the admin to catch-up.

Will be Yougov polling out tomorrow which has been called 'punchy' by one of the academics involved in commissioning it.

edit: here's the GE version.


It's been Labours policy for the last three years to give crumbs to remain voters while their actions speak otherwise. Its nothing new. Its boring.
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22432 on: May 15, 2019, 07:40:04 AM »
It's been Labours policy for the last three years to give crumbs to remain voters while their actions speak otherwise. Its nothing new. Its boring.

Yeah, although I suppose point was really about eg newly selected candidates heading out and campaigning in direct opposition to what is coming out of the leader's office. Agree on there being a huge disconnect between what is being said for this campaign and what will be done. In addition to your reaction to it, would also suggest that it's also just going to piss even more people off if they buy into the remain facing campaign and then find Corbyn saying he's been thoroughly vindicated, in wanting to pass the Withdrawal Agreement, by their voting for him in the European elections.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22433 on: May 15, 2019, 11:53:32 AM »
"No 10 confirms they will bring back withdrawal bill back week after MPs recess - same first week of June as Trump here - less clear whether there will be deal with Labour by then that would give the bill a real chance of passing" - Beeb's Laura Kuenssberg

Believe the stated plan is to then try to go to indicative voting should (when, surely) it fails to get through Parliament. Of course, there's little incentive for anyone opposed to the Withdrawal Bill (whatever new form it takes) to agree to be bound by any further voting which isn't certain to return the result they want. And round and round it goes.

Quote
If Mrs May's plan is defeated, Number 10 said the UK is set for no deal or for Article 50 to be revoked.

That is because the EU will not grant a further extension beyond 31 October, says BBC assistant political editor Norman Smith.

Attempts to find a cross-party compromise began after the PM's Brexit deal was rejected three times by MPs.

But government sources have told the BBC that there would not be a further attempt if the plan is rejected.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48275827

Interesting.

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22434 on: May 15, 2019, 12:11:41 PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48275827

Interesting.
Nahhh she's just trying to force leave and remain MPs to back her bill, the EU have warned us not to waste this extension but am sure they will grant a further extension if Parliament votes for a referendum.

If Mrs May's plan is defeated, Number 10 said the UK is set for no deal or for Article 50 to be revoked.

That is because the EU will not grant a further extension beyond 31 October, says BBC assistant political editor Norman Smith.

Attempts to find a cross-party compromise began after the PM's Brexit deal was rejected three times by MPs.

But government sources have told the BBC that there would not be a further attempt if the plan is rejected.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 12:31:05 PM by oldfordie »
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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22435 on: May 15, 2019, 12:30:51 PM »
Nahhh she's just trying to force leave and remain MPs to back her bill, the EU have warned us not to waste this extension but an sure they will grant a further extension if Parliament votes for a referendum.

If Mrs May's plan is defeated, Number 10 said the UK is set for no deal or for Article 50 to be revoked.

That is because the EU will not grant a further extension beyond 31 October, says BBC assistant political editor Norman Smith.

Attempts to find a cross-party compromise began after the PM's Brexit deal was rejected three times by MPs.

But government sources have told the BBC that there would not be a further attempt if the plan is rejected.

Oh, I agree that the government is deliberately downplaying the chances of the EU granting us an extension. What I found intriguing is the government's claim that there would not be "a further attempt" Is that only referring to holding another vote on the implementation bill, leaving the door open to a MV4 on the Withdrawal Act after Parliament is prorogued or will there be no MV4 either? If it's the latter, then what? Resignation? Finally supporting another referendum? More indicative votes?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 12:34:22 PM by ShakaHislop »

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22436 on: May 15, 2019, 12:34:05 PM »
 Current suggestion is one I mentioned months back as a final scenario. Essentially the deal between May and Corbyn is more that Corbyn tries to whip abstentions on key votes as the bill progresses and May doesn't oppose amendments. Flaws to it are that wrecking amendments could actually end up turning the bill into something incompatible with what we've agreed with the EU and both of them combined are unlikely to be able to whip a majority of the commons any which way.

edit: nb - this isn't a meaningful vote. this is the actual legislation and skipping holding the mv.
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And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22437 on: May 15, 2019, 12:37:22 PM »
I'd forgotten about this with the footy.

Glad to see the government getting on with it
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22438 on: May 15, 2019, 01:10:20 PM »
Oh, I agree that the government is deliberately downplaying the chances of the EU granting us an extension. What I found intriguing is the government's claim that there would not be "a further attempt" Is that only referring to holding another vote on the implementation bill, leaving the door open to a MV4 on the Withdrawal Act after Parliament is prorogued or will there be no MV4 either? If it's the latter, then what? Resignation? Finally supporting another referendum? More indicative votes?

Think it's dead if it fails to pass. Only options really are revocation of Article 50 (at some point - not necessarily immediately), or for a new Tory PM to go to the country to get a 'no deal' mandate. Current parliament would seem to rule out anything else just from the inability to coalesce around any kind of majority but for the one against 'no deal'.
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And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit thread - Rocky Horror Brexit Shitshow Hallowe'en Special!
« Reply #22439 on: May 15, 2019, 01:26:20 PM »
Oh, I agree that the government is deliberately downplaying the chances of the EU granting us an extension. What I found intriguing is the government's claim that there would not be "a further attempt" Is that only referring to holding another vote on the implementation bill, leaving the door open to a MV4 on the Withdrawal Act after Parliament is prorogued or will there be no MV4 either? If it's the latter, then what? Resignation? Finally supporting another referendum? More indicative votes?
I think the vote on Mays WA will be closer this time as a few hard leave MPs can sense Parliament is  starting to accept the argument of another referendum being the only solution to break the deadlock, she lost the last vote by 58 but from what were hearing it still won't pass. I think a decision will be made over the next few months, the EU will not grant any further extensions without hearing something solid from the UK, refusing to back Mays deal, revoke Art 50. another referendum results in a no deal hard Brexit in October, a few MPs will start to change their vote and the closest amendment vote last time (I think it lost by 12 votes but not certain) was for a confirmatory referendum so you would think this amendment is more likely to pass than Mays deal, IMO, another amendment with a referendum with Remain/Mays deal/no deal as the choices will be passed in months to come.
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