Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
538 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 739

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 1087476 times)

Offline rob1966

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33080 on: November 12, 2019, 09:01:31 am »
But will Express and Mail readers be told it's important?

Colluding with the Commies? The Daily Heil will be OK with that, not sure about the rest of the red tops.

Offline KillieRed

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33081 on: November 12, 2019, 01:11:10 pm »
I saw Farage interviewed by his usual mates on the BBC this morning, he was actually questioned about beng offered a peerage. However when asked to justify standing aside for the tories, he made it clear that above all things it was to thwart a second referendum. Why was the obviious question not ask: "what do you have to fear about a second referendum?" Particularly when he was the one previously muttering about not respecting the outcome of the first one.

The fix is in, the super rich & their sheep (those factory workers in bishop auckland this morning, lifelong labour voters going over to the tories ffs) will have their Brexit. As my granny would say "hell mend them".
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33082 on: November 12, 2019, 09:25:46 pm »
*sighs in Esperanto*



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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33083 on: November 13, 2019, 06:53:39 am »
Why are we fucking doing this?
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline rob1966

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33084 on: November 13, 2019, 07:00:13 am »

Offline a treeless whopper

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33085 on: November 13, 2019, 07:30:15 am »
*sighs in Esperanto*



Yougov (7th/8th Novemnber)


Thats a good poll isnt it?

Offline a treeless whopper

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33086 on: November 13, 2019, 07:31:00 am »
Why are we fucking doing this?

To break up the United Kingdom. Hopefully within the next couple of years.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33087 on: November 13, 2019, 07:39:52 am »
Thats a good poll isnt it?

It's depressing - if you asked the same people whether they want to retain 'freedom of movement' the numbers would probably be completely different even though that's what 'freedom of movement' means.

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Offline Rush 82

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33088 on: November 13, 2019, 07:44:19 am »
It's depressing - if you asked the same people whether they want to retain 'freedom of movement' the numbers would probably be completely different even though that's what 'freedom of movement' means.
Profoundly depressing.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33089 on: November 13, 2019, 12:28:58 pm »
Jonathan Ashworth being asked on the Today show on Radio 4 about Brexit's impact on the NHS, from around the 1:55:55 mark.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000b4w7

Quote
Presenter: Is Brexit a threat to the NHS?

Ashworth: Well, I've always said that Brexit is a huge, huge risk for the NHS. I've always been entirely clear about that -

P: And if you really want to combat that, I mean your party is prepared for us to leave the EU under what you call a "credible Leave option", if that is going to be a credible Leave option and one that it does as little damage to the NHS as possible, then will it include a commitment to keep freedom of movement?

A: We're going to renegotiate a deal which would mitigate the worst excesses of Brexit for the National Health Service -

P: Is that one of them? Ending freedom of movement would be -

A: But we would put to that to the British people -

P: I understand all of that, I'm just wondering what that "credible Leave option" entails for the NHS. Clearly, you will be well aware that 10% of our doctors are EU nationals; 6% of nurses, so if you want to continue this project of transforming the NHS, something you could do is make it as easy as possible for them to remain in this country and indeed come to this country in future, which is retain freedom of movement.

A: Which is what we will do for the NHS. So we won't, for example, impose any nurses tax on the nurses and midwives from the EU who want to come here to care our sick and our elderly as the government are proposing -

P: Sorry, you said you will retain freedom of movement for the NHS?

A: Yes. So -

P: That means if you are a medical professional, you will have freedom of movement, you will not...you will have complete freedom of movement as an EU citizen coming to this country?

A: If a hospital trust believes that a doctor, a surgeon; a consultant; a nurse; a midwife; another health practictioner is good enough to come and care for our sick and our elderly and offers us that opportunity, we will not stand in the way of that hospital trust because we -

P: And bring their families?

A: Because we need to continue to recruit internationally, ethically, but we have to recruit -

P: And bring their families from the EU?

A: Well, well, well, well, well yes indeed, because we need more doctors and nurses from across the world to come and work in our NHS. The government say the same but they've put in place so many obstacles and bureaucracy and leaves our hospital managers tearing their hair out because they're desperately short of staff, and they've got staff internationally who want to come and work on their wards but the government's not letting them in.

Sounds like "managed migration" to me

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33090 on: November 13, 2019, 12:57:43 pm »
With the Brexit Party announcing not to contest any Tory seats, I can for the first time actually see Brexit really happening... utterly depressing. I would lie if I said I understand every fine detail of the Uk voting system, but surely this gives a boost to Johnson's chances?

I still believe most people voted for brexit due to immigration, nothing will change my opinion on that. I don't think immigration levels will actually change if we leave. We'll just get other people from all over the world happier with much lower wages instead.
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Offline Andy

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33091 on: November 13, 2019, 01:15:44 pm »
Jonathan Ashworth being asked on the Today show on Radio 4 about Brexit's impact on the NHS, from around the 1:55:55 mark.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000b4w7

Sounds like "managed migration" to me

Sounds like Len McCluskey needs to give him a call...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/13/mccluskey-tells-corbyn-defy-calls-extend-freedom-of-movement


Offline Classycara

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33092 on: November 13, 2019, 01:27:36 pm »
Sounds like Len McCluskey needs to give him a call...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/13/mccluskey-tells-corbyn-defy-calls-extend-freedom-of-movement
I don't actually think that's Ashworth accidentally committing to retaining freedom of movement, sadly. Reads more like the kind of migration exponents of 'australian points system' are into. Still reads like Labour will negotiate for a different form of hard brexit.

Offline BobOnATank

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33093 on: November 13, 2019, 01:32:48 pm »
I still believe most people voted for brexit due to immigration, nothing will change my opinion on that. I don't think immigration levels will actually change if we leave. We'll just get other people from all over the world happier with much lower wages instead.
Agreed on the key reason behind it but I'd expect it to increase as it'll open up the workforce to a much greater number of countries with low wage/cost economies.

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33094 on: November 13, 2019, 01:39:15 pm »
I still believe most people voted for brexit due to immigration, nothing will change my opinion on that. I don't think immigration levels will actually change if we leave. We'll just get other people from all over the world happier with much lower wages instead.

It was immigration. Immigration was always the biggest reason for people voting for Brexit, in particular those people who hardly ever vote but came out to do so and therefore fucked everyone else.

Fair play to the Brexiteers (or maybe its the media) that the whole narrative since has become trade deals and 'democracy'. But when I was campaigning for Remain then immigration was absolutely front and centre and that was the view of immigrants as well!

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33095 on: November 13, 2019, 01:49:24 pm »
Agreed on the key reason behind it but I'd expect it to increase as it'll open up the workforce to a much greater number of countries with low wage/cost economies.

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It was immigration. Immigration was always the biggest reason for people voting for Brexit, in particular those people who hardly ever vote but came out to do so and therefore fucked everyone else.

Fair play to the Brexiteers (or maybe its the media) that the whole narrative since has become trade deals and 'democracy'. But when I was campaigning for Remain then immigration was absolutely front and centre and that was the view of immigrants as well!



I'll love to see their faces when Europeans just get replaced by Asians and Africans. "This is not what we voted for!!!!"

Well actually, it kind of was.
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33096 on: November 13, 2019, 01:50:04 pm »
I don't actually think that's Ashworth accidentally committing to retaining freedom of movement, sadly. Reads more like the kind of migration exponents of 'australian points system' are into. Still reads like Labour will negotiate for a different form of hard brexit.

Labour has already had a non-FOM policy for over a year, and it fits with what Ashworth said this morning.

Diane Abbott unveils Labour's new immigration policy

    13 September 2018

A Labour government would bring in a simplified visa system for foreign workers with "bona fide skills", Diane Abbott has said.

The shadow home secretary said the party would also scrap the government's "bogus" net migration target.

She set out plans for a "flexible work visa" to end the "idiocy" of medical staff not being able to take up jobs.

Migrants from outside the EU should be treated with the same "fairness" as EU migrants after Brexit, she added.

The Conservatives said Labour's new policy would "tear up the rules for people coming from outside the EU which would allow more low-skilled immigration".

Under the current system, non-EU migrants are rated on whether their skills are needed by the UK economy, with occupations ranked in tiers drawn up by the Migration Advisory Committee.

Under Labour's plans "anyone with specified bona fide skills can come here to work," Diane Abbott said in a speech.

A "new, integrated work visa" would "allow a future Labour government to "offer rights of work and residency and accelerated citizenship to a range of professions, workers and those creating employment who want to come here," she added.

"It will be available to all those we need to come here, whether it is doctors, or scientists, or care workers.

"This will apply across a range of jobs, skills and professions. People coming to take up specific job offers, where it can be shown that those jobs cannot be filled by workers already resident here, will be able to come here.

"We will use intelligence from the Migration Advisory Council, from trades unions, from employers - private and public - and from devolved governments and local and regional elected bodies to identify needs and to meet them."

The policy would "sit alongside the existing visas for business trips, students, visitors and tourists" and bring an end to "the idiocy of preventing doctors and nurses from coming here to take up job offers".

Ms Abbott vowed to scrap the government's target of reducing net migration - the difference between those arriving in the UK and leaving - to below 100,000 a year.

"The target had never been met and never will be met," she told the BBC, and called for "a new conversation about migration that is not fixated on numbers".

She vowed to scrap the minimum income requirement for non-EU migrants and to give people "more rights of family reunion".

What the party's policy towards migrants from the EU would be after Brexit would depend on what the current government agreed in Brussels, she told the BBC, but she wanted to see "fairness" between the two categories.

"We want an immigration system which is fair, and which is managed, in the interests of the economy and the community as a whole," she added.

The shadow home secretary is also pledging that Labour will abolish the Immigration Act 2014 and end the "hostile environment" policy deployed by the government, which she said had led to the Windrush scandal.

But she insisted Labour would act against illegal immigration and "make the system of deportation of overseas criminals much easier and smoother".

"If a judge issues a recommendation for deportation for serious criminals post-sentence, that should be carried out as a matter of routine. From the prison to the airport," she said in her speech.

For the Conservatives, immigration minister Caroline Nokes said Labour had "no interest in getting control of our borders as we leave the EU".

"Only the Conservatives will end free movement and build a fair and controlled immigration system," she added.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45510623

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33097 on: November 13, 2019, 02:35:27 pm »
Elon Musk says Brexit made him decide against Tesla electric car Gigafactory in UK

Electric car pioneer Elon Musk has picked Germany for his new factory because of Brexit, embarrassing Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson as he prepares to pledge a “clean energy revolution”.

The prime minister is due to make a televised speech at an electric car plant in the West Midlands – but the visit risks being overshadowed by the Mr Musk’s change of heart.

At an award ceremony in Germany, the entrepreneur announced: “We've decided to put the Tesla Giga factory Europe in the Berlin area.”

And, speaking to Auto Express, he blamed Brexit uncertainty for his decision to drop plans to build a research and development base in the UK, which will now also go to Germany.

“Brexit made it too risky to put a Gigafactory in the UK,” Mr Musk said, referring to Tesla’s new battery and electric vehicle.

Mr Johnson has claimed investors are ready to unleash development plans in the UK if his Brexit deal is passed – but is facing renewed criticism that it will be a hard Brexit that will deter companies.

To add to the embarrassment, his controversial chief aide Dominic Cummings was captured wearing an ‘Open AI’ t-shirt’ – the Silicon Valley start-up Mr Musk founded – on one of his first days in No 10.

Mr Johnson has faced growing criticism that he has failed to follow through on the landmark legal commitment – enacted in Theresa May’s last days – for net-zero carbon emissions by 2050.

He did announce plans to fund research to develop the world's first nuclear fusion plant, but most experts believe achieving that dream is still 30 years away.

The Tories have also said they will invest £1bn in the UK's electric car industry, but little has been said that could help hit the ambitious 2050 legal target.

Today, Mr Johnson will vow to “harness the power of science, innovation and technology to tackle climate change, spur economic growth and create high-skilled, high-wage jobs”.

The aim is to appeal to Liberal Democrat voters whose support he needs to win a Commons majority and head off the threat of a hung parliament.

Tom Brake, the Lib Dem Brexit spokesman, seized on Mr Cummings’ admiration of Mr Musk, saying: “The very entrepreneur Cummings idolises has chosen not to invest in the UK because of the extreme Brexit he is pursuing.

“You really couldn't make it up. This completely demolishes the Johnson and Cummings Brexit fantasy and shows their deluded plans are already costing us vital investment and making the country poorer.”

Mr Musk wrote on Twitter that his new plant “will build batteries, powertrains & vehicles, starting with Model Y”.

As a major incentive, German officials and auto industry leaders have agreed to increase by half the existing government incentives for electric vehicles worth 40,000 euros.

The subsidy will be extended from the end of 2020 to the end of 2025, while the government and industry also agreed to aim for 50,000 publicly accessible charging stations nationwide by 2022.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-latest-elon-musk-tesla-electric-car-gigafactory-uk-a9200981.html

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33098 on: November 13, 2019, 03:27:25 pm »
Sounds like Len McCluskey needs to give him a call...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/13/mccluskey-tells-corbyn-defy-calls-extend-freedom-of-movement

I see McCluskey is currently trending on Twitter, and getting stick from even some Labour supporters but Corbyn has said pretty much the same thing before.

From The Andrew Marr show in July 2017.

Quote
AM: You’ve got a reputation as a straight talker and clear answers.  There’s one issue on which you won’t give a clear answer. When you’re asked would you like to see us leave the single market, you can’t tell us.

JC: The single market is dependent on membership of the EU. What we’ve said all along is that we want a tariff free trade access to the  European market and a partnership with Europe in the future.

AM: But to be absolutely crystal clear, we leave the single European market because we leave the EU?

JC: The two things are inextricably linked.

AM: So we have to leave the single market?

JC: Yes.

AM: Okay, that’s clear.

JC: And so the question is then the kind of trade relationship in the future, and we’ve made it very clear we want tariff free trade access with the European market.

AM: Some of your colleague have also made it clear that to get that you’d have to accept some version of free movement of people once we’ve left the EU.  A different free movement of people, but some kind of free movement of people.

JC: I think we made that clear during the election, that quite clearly there are a lot of British people working in Europe, a lot of European people working in this country. We would do two things. One is guarantee the rights of EU nationals to remain here, including a right of family reunion and we would expect the same to be done across Europe and obviously skills are needed on both sides of the Channel. I  mean look at any major company in Britain, they require European skills as they do British skills on theirs. BMW for example and many others.

AM: Absolutely. So we’re outside the EU but to get full access to the single market we accept that there’s free movement of people coming from the EU to us and vice versa?

JC: Well, it would be a managed thing on the basis of the work required.

AM: But you wouldn’t be stopping people at the border, asking for their visas?

JC: There would be European workers working in Britain and British workers working in Europe as there are the moment. What there wouldn’t be is the wholesale importation of underpaid workers from central Europe in order to destroy conditions, particularly in the construction industry.

AM: So how do you stop that? Under your plan how do you stop that happening?

JC: You prevent agencies recruiting whole scale work forces that like. You advertise for jobs in the locality first.

AM: But to be absolutely clear you don’t stop people coming from Latvia or Poland who want to come and work here, you don’t stop them at the airport of the border and say let’s see your papers?

JC: Listen, they would come here on the basis of the jobs available and their skill sets to go with it. What we wouldn’t allow is this practice by agencies, who are quite disgraceful the way they do it, recruit workforce, low paid and bring them here in order to dismiss and existing workforce in the construction industry, then pay them low wages. It’s appalling. And the only people who benefit are the companies.

AM: Just going back to my original question, would you allow everybody who wanted to come here to come here, or would you stop them at the ports and airports?

JC: As I said, and we said during the election, it would be on the basis of the economic needs and skills required. And so for example –

AM: So we don’t need any more plumbers, you go home again?

JC: No. The need for nurses for example is huge and we now have a problem of nurse shortage because the number of Polish nurses who’ve either gone home or not coming. And so that we have to be sensible about this.

AM: Right, but I’m still slightly unclear. If there was, for instance, some Polish plumbers and we decided we have enough plumbers in this country, would they be stopped and told they had to go home again, or would they be allowed in anyway?

JC: We will look at the situation on a basis of the job and skill needs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/23071701.pdf
« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 03:29:40 pm by ShakaHislop »

Offline lamad

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33099 on: November 13, 2019, 04:26:37 pm »
Elon Musk says Brexit made him decide against Tesla electric car Gigafactory in UK

Electric car pioneer Elon Musk has picked Germany for his new factory because of Brexit, embarrassing Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson as he prepares to pledge a “clean energy revolution”.

The prime minister is due to make a televised speech at an electric car plant in the West Midlands – but the visit risks being overshadowed by the Mr Musk’s change of heart.

At an award ceremony in Germany, the entrepreneur announced: “We've decided to put the Tesla Giga factory Europe in the Berlin area.”

And, speaking to Auto Express, he blamed Brexit uncertainty for his decision to drop plans to build a research and development base in the UK, which will now also go to Germany.

“Brexit made it too risky to put a Gigafactory in the UK,” Mr Musk said, referring to Tesla’s new battery and electric vehicle.

Mr Johnson has claimed investors are ready to unleash development plans in the UK if his Brexit deal is passed – but is facing renewed criticism that it will be a hard Brexit that will deter companies.

To add to the embarrassment, his controversial chief aide Dominic Cummings was captured wearing an ‘Open AI’ t-shirt’ – the Silicon Valley start-up Mr Musk founded – on one of his first days in No 10.
...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-latest-elon-musk-tesla-electric-car-gigafactory-uk-a9200981.html

Ahahahaha!!! Schadenfreude!! (sorry, not sorry)

As an aside: The higher subsidies for electric cars have no direct correlation to Tesla; they recently were agreed on in the wake of the climate change initiative the German government coalition has put together. Probably did not hurt though, being among the many aspects why Musk chose this location.

Offline Classycara

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33100 on: November 13, 2019, 04:52:08 pm »
Labour has already had a non-FOM policy for over a year, and it fits with what Ashworth said this morning.

Diane Abbott unveils Labour's new immigration policy

    13 September 2018
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45510623
Thought I remembered something like that, that's part of why I didn't think Ashworth was speaking at cross purposes with Len's Labour plan. Thanks for the research.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33101 on: November 13, 2019, 10:56:08 pm »
Tusk's speaking more freely as his term comes to an end. Full transcript

Quote
Finally, if you allow me, I want to tell you something I wouldn’t have dared to say a few months ago, as I could be fired for being too frank. And today, it is simply too late to impeach Donald, at least the European one. In fact, I envy John Bercow, that he can finally, honestly say what he thinks about Brexit.

I will also touch upon this subject. I have heard repeatedly from Brexiteers that they wanted to leave the European Union to make the United Kingdom global again, believing that only alone, it can truly be great. You could hear in these voices a longing for the Empire. But the reality is exactly the opposite. Only as part of a united Europe can the UK play a global role, only together can we confront, without any complexes, the greatest powers of this world. In fact, I can say the same about Germany or France. And the world knows it. I have heard the same in India, New Zealand, Australia, Canada and South Africa; that after its departure, the UK will become an outsider, a second-rate player, while the main battlefield will be occupied by China, the United States and the European Union. "Why are they doing this?" – I was asked this regretful question everywhere I went. One of my English friends is probably right when he says with melancholy that Brexit is the real end of the British Empire.

The UK election takes place in one month. Can things still be turned around? Hannah Arendt taught that things become irreversible only when people start to think so. So the only words that come to my mind today are simply: Don’t give up. In this match, we had added time, we are already in extra time, perhaps it will even go to penalties?
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33102 on: November 15, 2019, 06:58:28 pm »
Video

Quote
"We need to have a fair immigration system" says the shadow business secretary
 
Rebecca Long Bailey is asked if she agrees with Diane Abbott's call to extend freedom of movement rights

#politicslive https://bbc.in/32O1r9k

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1195325419781640195

Quote
Long-Bailey: "The legal position is, whether people want freedom of movement or not, it won't exist when we leave the European Union - that's a fact."

https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1195322416525979648

Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33103 on: November 15, 2019, 07:11:33 pm »


I'm confident that will have absolutely no effect on the staff shortages within the NHS...
I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

Mutton Geoff (Obviously a real nice guy)

Offline a treeless whopper

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33104 on: November 15, 2019, 07:17:13 pm »
Video

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1195325419781640195

https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1195322416525979648

Caught up with Daily Politics and watched that interview. Absolute dog turd and it just makes you angry that we accept that MP’s dont answer questions.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 07:20:24 pm by a treeless whopper »

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33105 on: November 17, 2019, 09:12:01 am »
Sunday Times (paywall) continues with its scoops on the intelligence report the government is sitting on. Not that they're particularly trumpeting them. Story so far is that a number of donors to the Tories are specifically named. Today's is that the extent and influence of Russian activity on the referendum result is also part of it.

Spoiler
Quote
Russian interference may have had an impact on the Brexit referendum, but the effect was “unquantifiable”, according to a parliamentary report suppressed by No 10.

The report by the cross-party intelligence and security committee (ISC ) into illicit Russian activities in Britain could not say if it had affected the result of the 2016 vote.

Emily Thornberry, the shadow foreign secretary, said the disclosure raised “serious questions” about the safeguards in place for the general election next month.

“If it is correct that our security services have been unable to reach a conclusion about the extent or impact of Russian interference in the 2016 referendum, then it raises serious questions which require serious answers,” she said.

“Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson therefore needs to clear up the confusion, spin and speculation around this ISC report by publishing it in full at the earliest opportunity. If not, people will rightly continue to ask: what is he trying to hide from the British public and why?”

The ISC’s 18-month study of alleged Russian interference in the referendum is understood to have criticised British intelligence services for failing to devote enough resources to tackling threats from Vladimir Putin’s regime.

Anti-EU articles disseminated by such Kremlin-sanctioned media outlets as RT and Sputnik in the run-up to the referendum campaign are cited in the report. Social media analysis that was presented to the digital, culture, media and sport committee last year revealed that articles published by the Russian sites had four times more social media impact before the Brexit vote than the official leave campaigns.

More than 260 articles posted by RT and Sputnik in the six months prior to the referendum were shared so widely on Twitter that they could have been seen up to 134m times.

By comparison, tweets from Vote Leave and Leave.eu — the two biggest pro-Brexit campaign groups — generated potential impressions of 33m and 14m.

Intelligence officials who have either seen or been briefed on the document said: “The government’s refusal to publish the report has been very damaging to the British intelligence community, because it suggests that we have something major to cover up.”
[close]

via Sunday Times' Tom Harper:

Quote
Senior Whitehall source: “Downing Street are concerned that if this emerges it would raise questions about the validity of the referendum result, which is the central issue in the general election campaign & could compromise the Tories pitch to the electorate to get Brexit done.”
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 09:14:27 am by Zeb »
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline TSC

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33106 on: November 17, 2019, 09:24:41 am »
Sunday Times (paywall) continues with its scoops on the intelligence report the government is sitting on. Not that they're particularly trumpeting them. Story so far is that a number of donors to the Tories are specifically named. Today's is that the extent and influence of Russian activity on the referendum result is also part of it.

Spoiler
[close]

via Sunday Times' Tom Harper:


Content of the report and the fact the Govt prevented it’s release should come as a surprise to no-one.  Of course the fact its release is prevented before the election will mean that most of the electorate will be unaware of the content.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33107 on: November 17, 2019, 12:13:43 pm »
No surprise with the Tom Harper tweet. Although there will be loads of Leavers who will either fail to comprehend or be in denial that misinformation from Russian troll farms had anything to do with their decision

Offline TSC

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33108 on: November 17, 2019, 01:33:15 pm »
No surprise with the Tom Harper tweet. Although there will be loads of Leavers who will either fail to comprehend or be in denial that misinformation from Russian troll farms had anything to do with their decision

The march of the ‘brexit cult’ movement is so far advanced that those who have not changed their minds by now will ignore any sort of evidence that confirms they were exploited.  To do otherwise would be to confirm same. So said folk ‘double down’.  It’s become ‘brexit’ at all costs.  Even if they don’t actually understand what ‘brexit’ (and details thereof) means. 

Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33109 on: November 17, 2019, 02:55:26 pm »
The march of the ‘brexit cult’ movement is so far advanced that those who have not changed their minds by now will ignore any sort of evidence that confirms they were exploited.  To do otherwise would be to confirm same. So said folk ‘double down’.  It’s become ‘brexit’ at all costs.  Even if they don’t actually understand what ‘brexit’ (and details thereof) means. 
Even in the midst of the shitshow that will surely follow, even when you can put an actual figure on how much worse off they are, they will not relent, because you can't put a figure on that rosy glow - and anyway it will still all be Europe's fault.
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect.

Offline filopastry

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33110 on: November 19, 2019, 02:10:08 pm »
Arron Banks having his twitter hacked and having his DMs exposed to the world is one of the funniest things I've seen in a while.

Offline Dench57

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33111 on: November 19, 2019, 02:11:52 pm »
This is gonna be good
Loving Everton's business this summer. Here's an early call - they finish above Liverpool this season.
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Offline Dench57

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33112 on: November 19, 2019, 02:18:48 pm »
off to a flyer

Loving Everton's business this summer. Here's an early call - they finish above Liverpool this season.
- Richard Keys (@richardajkeys) July 9, 2017

Offline Skeeve

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33113 on: November 19, 2019, 02:21:58 pm »
That one seems to be fake, but he's definitely somebody who would be plausibly stupid enough for it to be true though.  ;D

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33114 on: November 19, 2019, 02:43:26 pm »
Arron Banks having his twitter hacked and having his DMs exposed to the world is one of the funniest things I've seen in a while.

Carole Cadwalladr was probably doing the Antonio Banderas laptop gif at this news

Offline HarryLabrador

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33115 on: November 19, 2019, 04:10:15 pm »
Dr. Jennifer Cassidy

@OxfordDiplomat
Follow Follow @OxfordDiplomat
More
Trump Impeachment Hearings are currently Live.

Aaron Banks Twitter messages are also currently Live.

Dominic Raab is caught up in the hack.

Priti Patel is caught up in the hack.

Did I mention Trump is being impeached?

This is a DAY.

7:13 AM - 19 Nov 2019

https://twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1196808690264883200?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
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Offline RF

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33116 on: November 19, 2019, 04:37:11 pm »
off to a flyer



Apparently that might be a fake.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33117 on: November 25, 2019, 07:33:51 pm »
Ivan Rogers playing his Cassandra role again. Full lecture here.

Quote
Put crudely, the EU will feel that, in the time available, rather little serious work can get done, and will think that is no bad thing, as it can fully exploit UK desperation to get something over the new line. Why not take advantage of yet another Prime Minister who has unwisely boxed himself in?

They are talking up a deal, not because they have become undying fans of Brexiteers but because they can see there’s an opportunity here for something that works pretty nicely in the EU’s interest.

The U.K. will think that the overwhelming political objective is to deliver “full exit” by the end of 2020 (let’s forget the little local difficulty that you told the public that you were “getting Brexit done” the year before.)

So a quick and dirty deal, with precious little substance beyond zero tariffs and quotas has appeal, despite the economic reality that the vast majority of the barriers to trade which we need to keep dismantled are the non-tariff ones. And despite the obvious face that a tariffs and quotas only deal is obviously more in, say, French and German interests than our own

We could, as in the Spring of 2017, be on tramlines to this rather rapidly.

Put another way, the jelly will be setting on a potential endgame in 2020 as soon as the EU negotiating mandate starts to appear in print. That is now only just over 3 months from today. Reality does come at U.K Prime Ministers rather quickly these days.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline DJBrenton

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33118 on: November 25, 2019, 08:37:08 pm »
Apparently that might be a fake.

Let's not get bogged down in details. Who's to say what's really true.
I have no children on RAWK. Anyone claiming to be my daughter is a blagger trying to bask in reflected glory.

Offline vblfc

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33119 on: November 26, 2019, 09:41:44 am »
Let's not get bogged down in details. Who's to say what's really true.
Was an expert on radio (BBC World) Sunday morning talking about the Tories fake fact checker and the systemic, blatant lies put out by Johnson, Trump etc. He said we are in the “post truth era”. Seems if you hear the PM say it,  the President tweet it, Facebook post it, redtops report it,  then your mind sort of triangulates this into a supposed fact (often what you want to hear) which you then post or tweet to your followers etc. So this then becomes a post truth era baseline “fact”.
Conclusion - We are doomed