Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
538 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 739

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 1044956 times)

Offline Classycara

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32920 on: October 31, 2019, 12:04:10 PM »
Are the potential Labour voters in here really turned off by their promises to make the UK greener? To close tax loopholes and tax the wealthy? Is it offensive that Labour want to end homelessness?

Where are misgivings? Genuinely curious.
So genuine :D

I'll avoid all your weird framing and add a couple of lesser-spotted criticisms of this iteration of Labour.

Personally I didn't like that the last manifesto offered to redistribute resources to middle class young people. It widens inequality, which is about as far the opposite of my economic political point of view as a party can get.

Also appeared to prioritise nationalising things like rail franchises and the post office which, considering the costs involved (assuming they don't seize assets :) would cost billions and take years and years, seemed like some insanely poor triage. Personally I want a Labour party that will prioritise reversing cuts and ring fencing funding - particularly to local authority public health. Unfortunately Corbyn et al's use of "anti-austerity" appeared to be (a lot of) lip service/rhetoric, and a handy catch-all word that ultimately didn't seem as important in the manifesto as they made out.

Anyway, that's just a couple of my misgivings (that have steered away from any personality politics) with the current shadow cabinet. I'm gonna be voting for Keir Starmer in this election, as it stands.

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32921 on: October 31, 2019, 12:11:35 PM »


I've already stated if you need to vote Lib Dems to keep out the Torys then do it whereas some of you in this thread are actively advocating not voting for Labour cos of Corbyn.

Offline Classycara

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32922 on: October 31, 2019, 12:13:18 PM »
I've already stated if you need to vote Lib Dems to keep out the Torys then do it whereas some of you in this thread are actively advocating not voting for Labour cos of Corbyn.


It wasn't a response to yours, just an addition (also based on quite a few in this thread)

Offline Andy82lfc

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32923 on: October 31, 2019, 12:14:17 PM »
So genuine :D

I'll avoid all your weird framing and add a couple of lesser-spotted criticisms of this iteration of Labour.

Personally I didn't like that the last manifesto offered to redistribute resources to middle class young people. It widens inequality, which is about as far the opposite of my economic political point of view as a party can get.

Also appeared to prioritise nationalising things like rail franchises and the post office which, considering the costs involved (assuming they don't seize assets :) would cost billions and take years and years, seemed like some insanely poor triage. Personally I want a Labour party that will prioritise reversing cuts and ring fencing funding - particularly to local authority public health. Unfortunately Corbyn et al's use of "anti-austerity" appeared to be (a lot of) lip service/rhetoric, and a handy catch-all word that ultimately didn't seem as important in the manifesto as they made out.

Anyway, that's just a couple of my misgivings (that have steered away from any personality politics) with the current shadow cabinet. I'm gonna be voting for Keir Starmer in this election, as it stands.

I think Cpt Reina is pointing out that, yes you maybe right in everything you said, lets throw some more into that fire too, yet it's still galaxys away from 5 more years of tory rule, absolute galaxys. Then the brexit thing, yes Corbyn is being a c*nt, he will continue to be a c*nt, but its at least an offer of a referendum vs torys again and an almost definite exit. Or lib dems who will not get enough seats to revoke, so it at best will be them and torys and a ref at a massive push. So labour and a ref or ref plus lib dems and tory rule.

So I agree with what he says wholeheartedly. Labour are dogshit but I'd rather them a million times over than tory rule again. If they get put back in after all the damage they have done they will bulldoze the shit out of everything they can. All that aside I'll be voting tactically to keep them out no matter what.

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32924 on: October 31, 2019, 12:16:55 PM »
I've already stated if you need to vote Lib Dems to keep out the Torys then do it whereas some of you in this thread are actively advocating not voting for Labour cos of Corbyn.


I would say both sides have the same issue, a lot of LD and Lab supporters will be unwilling to vote for the other party for various reasons.

Offline Welshred

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32925 on: October 31, 2019, 12:21:26 PM »
When I said I'm with you in spirit, I mean that I also want a socialist as the leader, and am fully supportive of the vast majority of Labour's policies. The misgivings are entirely about brexit.

But I can't speak for others here.

But parties with socialist leaders historically dont get elected in this country...

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32926 on: October 31, 2019, 12:31:47 PM »
Westminster voting intention:

CON: 41% (+8)
LAB: 24% (-)
LDEM: 20% (-3)
BREX: 7% (-3)
GRN: 3% (-1)

via @IpsosMORI, 25 - 28 Oct

Jezza is playing a blinder  ::)

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32927 on: October 31, 2019, 12:34:23 PM »
It is.

But we've ended up where we've ended up, people voted for Brexit and in the 3 years in between its looking now like people are largely now fed up of it and are fatigued enough to just want it done for the most part.

So in light of that, I dont think Labour's stance to allow the people the final say on a deal vs remaining is really anything beyond the pale. Certainly no reason not to vote for them, it seems fair and it seems prudent (to me).

So what else is there that's really a reason to vote for Labour and to risk another hung parliament or Tory majority?

Are the potential Labour voters in here really turned off by their promises to make the UK greener? To close tax loopholes and tax the wealthy? Is it offensive that Labour want to end homelessness?

Where are misgivings? Genuinely curious.

People want Brexit done because they are tired of it.

Ah-ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Once Brexit is 'done' there will nothing in the news for the next 30 years. You can't 'do' Brexit - once it happens, it's a neverending clusterfuck of Deals/Negotiations/horse trading/giveaways/compromises/shit for the country.
Hardline Ultra Remainer.

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32928 on: October 31, 2019, 12:37:31 PM »
Corbyns just given a election speech. talked about Labours Brexit stance.
Sky political commentator was asked his opinion on his speech. Corbyns saying he will get a deal in 6 months and put it to the people with the option to remain, he thinks Corbyn will support the Labour deal to leave the EU. :duh

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Offline Circa1892

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32929 on: October 31, 2019, 12:47:49 PM »
Corbyns just given a election speech. talked about Labours Brexit stance.
Sky political commentator was asked his opinion on his speech. Corbyns saying he will get a deal in 6 months and put it to the people with the option to remain, he thinks Corbyn will support the Labour deal to leave the EU. :duh



He will. Because he's fucking shit.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32930 on: October 31, 2019, 12:50:24 PM »
Corbyns just given a election speech. talked about Labours Brexit stance.
Sky political commentator was asked his opinion on his speech. Corbyns saying he will get a deal in 6 months and put it to the people with the option to remain, he thinks Corbyn will support the Labour deal to leave the EU. :duh


Why would you get a deal and then vote against it?

Would be genuinely absurd
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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32931 on: October 31, 2019, 12:54:44 PM »
I suppose the best deal you can get could still be shite (in fact we all know it must be) and then in that case you would vote against it.
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect.

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32932 on: October 31, 2019, 12:57:27 PM »
But parties with socialist leaders historically dont get elected in this country...

That may well be the case and may be a reason to vote tactically to stop the tories. I was just talking about the policies I support.
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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32933 on: October 31, 2019, 01:06:52 PM »
Why would you get a deal and then vote against it?

Would be genuinely absurd
Depends how you look at it, there has to be at least 2 questions on the referendum Ballot slip. do you want a disastrous no deal v remain question or a negotiated deal v remain.
Labour could argue they have got the best deal possible and it's up to the people to decide if they want it but they still believe we have the best deal already as members of the EU.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32934 on: October 31, 2019, 01:14:27 PM »
I find myself in an ethical quandary, and would actually appreciate advice from some of the posters here that I consider worthy of respect.

I have always believed that ex-patriates (particularly rich ones) should not vote in UK elections. It seems disingenuous to influence a country which one has decided to leave, especially in terms of tax policy and so forth.

For this election, I find myself a rich ex-pat, but one who was a member of the Labour party for near-on forty years and only ever voted for Labour policies (but never blindly - the 80's were a struggle). I left for NZ because of the Leave vote and my analysis of where the country would fall - as well as my main business being reliant on EU membership. I am fully involved in NZ politics (a shiny new member of the Labour party here) and a sometime advisor to government as I was to the recent Labour government in the UK.

This is possibly the most important vote for the future of the UK in living memory. My place of registration has a Labour MP, not marginal but probably vulnerable. He is a personal friend, a strong Remainer and represents an outlier Remain constituency. Despite being a 'Blairite' he has supported the Corbyn leadership loyally, and is a good man.

On the other hand, I cannot in all conscience vote for the current Labour party as I believe Corbyn as Prime Minister would be an unmitigated disaster, and the stance of the Party on Brexit is reprehensible. (Anti-semitism is a huge concern for me personally). I believe Corbyn and his advisors would embrace Brexit in their own way and not Remain, and thus a vote for Labour is a vote for Brexit. I do not think Corbyn's version of Labour is electable, and even if it was, the demands of government would likely paralyse their efforts to be remotely progressive - especially amongst the economic chaos of whatever a Lexit might look like.

I don't think I should vote, as I am not and am not likely to be, a British citizen that has to face the consequences. Next year, I will be voting Labour in my adopted home of New Zealand, because that affects my future.

Yet by not exercising the franchise that is still mine by law, I may be facilitating terrible problems for the country I still love and the people left behind that don't have my choices.  And if I do vote, do I vote Labour to support my friend despite my severe reservations of what that vote would entail and indicate at the macro-scale. Or do I cast a vote for the LDs as a Revoke party in alignment with my strong view (that may secure the seat for them, but very unlikely, more probably give the seat to a Tory as it was Conservative before 1997). Or waste a vote for the Greens in some sort of deluded personal symbolism that validates my belief one should always exercise the hard-won franchise.

I am genuinely conflicted.

You know, I wasn't sure what I might suggest - I too have always been against 'ex-pats' retaining the franchise, I live abroad, and am also similarly conflicted - but there is a false dilemma contained within your last paragraph: it is a legal right which extends to all those in similar circumstances to you. By not voting, you provide undue weight to others who have emigrated and who might vote the other way to you in the election. Election rules are full of unfairness (FPTP); we all are constrained by the rules. All we can do work as best we can within the framewark as currently constructed. I think it is OK and defensible for you to vote in the upcoming GE.

Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32935 on: October 31, 2019, 01:20:55 PM »
I think Cpt Reina is pointing out that, yes you maybe right in everything you said, lets throw some more into that fire too, yet it's still galaxys away from 5 more years of tory rule, absolute galaxys. Then the brexit thing, yes Corbyn is being a c*nt, he will continue to be a c*nt, but its at least an offer of a referendum vs torys again and an almost definite exit. Or lib dems who will not get enough seats to revoke, so it at best will be them and torys and a ref at a massive push. So labour and a ref or ref plus lib dems and tory rule.

So I agree with what he says wholeheartedly. Labour are dogshit but I'd rather them a million times over than tory rule again. If they get put back in after all the damage they have done they will bulldoze the shit out of everything they can. All that aside I'll be voting tactically to keep them out no matter what.

This is exactly what i'm getting at.

Those misgivings around nationalisation of services etc, they can be legitimate concerns and they're fair enough.

But are they really such terrible and horrible policies that you'd risk taking another Tory coalition to avoid them? Another few years like the last 10?

Surely not.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32936 on: October 31, 2019, 01:21:51 PM »
I think it's absolutely ''right'', when the events I want to influence could directly impact my ability to live and work in my current country of residence.

True. But this does not really apply to Banquo's situation.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32937 on: October 31, 2019, 01:28:47 PM »
Technically it won't be a Winter Election as Winter doesn't start until 21st December.

Maybe it's time online voting was made available so "turnout" becomes less of an issue.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Not really. There are two generally accepted versions of the seasons:

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/seasons/summer/when-does-summer-start

American's almost exclusively use the astronomical calendar (I always found it bit weird when I lived there). Brits almost always utilise the meteorological calendar. Certainly, I've never thought of (all of) December as anything but winter.

Offline Henry Gale

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32938 on: October 31, 2019, 01:45:09 PM »
Not really. There are two generally accepted versions of the seasons:

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/seasons/summer/when-does-summer-start

American's almost exclusively use the astronomical calendar (I always found it bit weird when I lived there). Brits almost always utilise the meteorological calendar. Certainly, I've never thought of (all of) December as anything but winter.

Are we going to have voting booths in America?  ;D

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32939 on: October 31, 2019, 01:53:34 PM »
Are we going to have voting booths in America?  ;D

I just mention the US because until I lived there, I never witnessed anyone base the start and ends of the seasons based upon the dates of solstices and equinoxes. (Excluding my US wife) Nor since, until reddebs mentioned it. It just seems a weird way to define the seasons.

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32940 on: October 31, 2019, 02:05:00 PM »
You do realise that has just listed the number of times Corbyn has failed right? Not succeeded or won but failed. Hes a failure and a danger, under him a vote for Labour is a vote for Brexit

Funny. ::) I did not even bother reading that list when Trada posted it. Because - you know - Trada.

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32941 on: October 31, 2019, 02:34:28 PM »
 :)

Monster Crash with Jacob Rees-Mogg and Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1189853837273817089
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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32942 on: October 31, 2019, 02:34:48 PM »
Important not to infer likely voting in 2019 too directly from the 2017 result.

The Lib Dems are polling 2-3 times higher now than they were then. Many seats will return to form as Tory-Lib Dem battles. Look at that constituency poll in north east Somerset as an example.
You might want to check the small print on that



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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32943 on: October 31, 2019, 02:39:23 PM »
You might want to check the small print on that

;D

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32944 on: October 31, 2019, 02:41:15 PM »
Mad how it's the 31st October 2019, we're not leaving the EU and there aren't riots on the streets, angry backlashes and a need for increased police presence on the streets??

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32945 on: October 31, 2019, 03:06:11 PM »
Mad how it's the 31st October 2019, we're not leaving the EU and there aren't riots on the streets, angry backlashes and a need for increased police presence on the streets??

Does the country explode at 11:59pm? And is it outside Mark Francois' house?

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32946 on: October 31, 2019, 03:57:46 PM »
:)

Monster Crash with Jacob Rees-Mogg and Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1189853837273817089

Fuck, I was hoping to see a car upside down in a ditch and a mortuary van.

Offline redmark

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32947 on: October 31, 2019, 04:14:06 PM »
I'm with you in spirit, but it's hard to look beyond the brexit stuff. It's not just one issue amongst others, it is the issue.
Two points: firstly, though Corbyn is the party leader and gets more TV time than the rest, he does not set party policy alone. Any scenario which leads to a Labour led/influenced government and a possible second referendum would be led by party policy, not Corbyn. He's lost plenty of internal party disagreements in the last couple of years.

Secondly - and this applies to antisemitism concerns too, I think - Jeremy Corbyn does not get into No 10 anyway. While the Labour membership may elect him repeatedly, the PM is a result of who can command a majority of MPs. Lib Dems won't stomach Corbyn as PM - and if it comes down to it, half his own MPs won't either.
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32948 on: October 31, 2019, 04:22:54 PM »
Two points: firstly, though Corbyn is the party leader and gets more TV time than the rest, he does not set party policy alone. Any scenario which leads to a Labour led/influenced government and a possible second referendum would be led by party policy, not Corbyn. He's lost plenty of internal party disagreements in the last couple of years.

Secondly - and this applies to antisemitism concerns too, I think - Jeremy Corbyn does not get into No 10 anyway. While the Labour membership may elect him repeatedly, the PM is a result of who can command a majority of MPs. Lib Dems won't stomach Corbyn as PM - and if it comes down to it, half his own MPs won't either.
Seamus Milne sets party policy.

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Offline redmark

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32949 on: October 31, 2019, 04:28:40 PM »
Seamus Milne sets party policy.


No he doesn't Tepid. He may set the leader's PR. But they both get knocked back on policy fairly regularly. If they did, there would be no commitment to a referendum on a Labour deal - both in policy, and in what Corbyn says when asked on that policy. It's a convoluted mess of a position to articulate to the electorate versus 'Get Brexit Done' or 'Revoke'. But it's a relatively honest one, given where the party is (and the mistakes that got them there).
 
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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32950 on: October 31, 2019, 04:46:13 PM »
Two points: firstly, though Corbyn is the party leader and gets more TV time than the rest, he does not set party policy alone. Any scenario which leads to a Labour led/influenced government and a possible second referendum would be led by party policy, not Corbyn. He's lost plenty of internal party disagreements in the last couple of years.

Secondly - and this applies to antisemitism concerns too, I think - Jeremy Corbyn does not get into No 10 anyway. While the Labour membership may elect him repeatedly, the PM is a result of who can command a majority of MPs. Lib Dems won't stomach Corbyn as PM - and if it comes down to it, half his own MPs won't either.

This is an important point. We've had years of Corbyn this, Corbyn that. Corbyn is useless, Corbyn is incompetent. Corbyn is evil, Corbyn is dangerous. People quitting Labour in fear of the danger posed by Corbyn becoming PM. Lib Dems saying rather a no deal Brexit than Corbyn as PM.

But Corbyn is not PM. He never has been and never will be.

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is PM. Perhaps it's time to stop barking up the wrong tree.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32951 on: October 31, 2019, 04:48:35 PM »
No he doesn't Tepid. He may set the leader's PR. But they both get knocked back on policy fairly regularly. If they did, there would be no commitment to a referendum on a Labour deal - both in policy, and in what Corbyn says when asked on that policy. It's a convoluted mess of a position to articulate to the electorate versus 'Get Brexit Done' or 'Revoke'. But it's a relatively honest one, given where the party is (and the mistakes that got them there).
 
It was a slightly throw away comment..,

However, he does have significant control.

With Milne and Cummings it’s like an ideological ‘who’s the biggest most uncaring c*nt’ competition.

The country would be far better off if both took up ditch diving
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32952 on: October 31, 2019, 04:52:09 PM »
This is an important point. We've had years of Corbyn this, Corbyn that. Corbyn is useless, Corbyn is incompetent. Corbyn is evil, Corbyn is dangerous. People quitting Labour in fear of the danger posed by Corbyn becoming PM. Lib Dems saying rather a no deal Brexit than Corbyn as PM.

But Corbyn is not PM. He never has been and never will be.

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is PM. Perhaps it's time to stop barking up the wrong tree.


Is there not a correlation here?

Johnson is only PM because of the complete shitness of Corbyn.  That IS the tree.

Labour has to have a palatable leader next. It cannot just rely on people voting for them just because they’re not the Tories.

This will be four elections in a row that labour has lost.

Maybe there’s something to learn from that?
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32953 on: October 31, 2019, 05:08:51 PM »
Why would you get a deal and then vote against it?

Would be genuinely absurd

It would. Dominic Raab levels of absurd.
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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32954 on: October 31, 2019, 05:10:32 PM »
It was a slightly throw away comment..,

However, he does have significant control.

With Milne and Cummings it’s like an ideological ‘who’s the biggest most uncaring c*nt’ competition.

The country would be far better off if both took up ditch diving
And now we are in the situation, in both cases, where the arsehole has been wagging the dog for sufficient time to ensure that the status quo ante will never return. There are still some tectonic plates yet to fall into place but the old days are gone forever.
Scepticism is the chastity of the intellect.

Offline BoRed

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32955 on: October 31, 2019, 05:32:59 PM »
Is there not a correlation here?

Johnson is only PM because of the complete shitness of Corbyn.  That IS the tree.

Labour has to have a palatable leader next.

I agree, but they're not about to change their leader in the next six weeks, so it's still the wrong tree to be barking up in the weeks leading up to a general election.

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32956 on: October 31, 2019, 06:18:36 PM »
I don't think we should over egg the campaign ran by Corbyn.  Teresa May ran perhaps the worst campaign I can ever remember (arguably even worse than Gordon Brown) and yet still picked up 55 more seats than Corbyn.  I appreciate the popular vote was much closer than that but if he couldn't topple "weak and wobbly" May then he's hardly a master campaigner.

Having said all that, nothing would please me more than a repeat performance of Labour over-achieving.  Anything but a Tory majority.
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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32957 on: October 31, 2019, 06:22:25 PM »
The fact that trump has waded in via farage to attempt to give corbyn a kicking will probably be lapped up by the lunatic fringe on the far right.  On the other hand hopefully it scares any ditherers away from the tories.

Trump would be better served focusing on his impeachment process instead of butting into the election affairs of a foreign country.

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32958 on: October 31, 2019, 06:28:16 PM »
 Falange must have done deal with Johnson. Bit of dirty work here and there for a safe seat maybe.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #32959 on: October 31, 2019, 07:42:01 PM »
Corbyns just given a election speech. talked about Labours Brexit stance.
Sky political commentator was asked his opinion on his speech. Corbyns saying he will get a deal in 6 months and put it to the people with the option to remain, he thinks Corbyn will support the Labour deal to leave the EU. :duh

He’s attacking the Lib Dems for campaigning to revoke saying it’s undemocratic. Anyone dumb enough to believe that Corbyn won’t campaign for Brexit/Lexit if Labour wins needs a kick up the bracket.

If you don’t want the Tories to be able to sell off the NHS in a trade deal then STAY IN THE FUCKING EU.

Labour Brexit is Brexit.

By equivocating on Brexit Corbyn has managed to turn away Labour Leavers and more significantly Labour Remainers who voted Labour in 2017 but will vote Lib Dem or Green this time round.

As for the other arguments on here.

Corbyn’s Labour Party has a problem with structural anti-semitism. If you defend it you’re part of the problem.

Corbyn is massively disliked/distrusted by voters. If the Labour Party insists on voting for a useless prick as Leader it’s no good saying the country has to vote for him to keep the Tories out. And replacing him with even more useless politicians like Long-Bailey or Pidcock isn’t going to make them more electable.

Corbyn’s Labour has taken the piss with my vote. I want change. I’d prefer a competent Labour Party but that seems to be a vain hope now. I think we could be fucked for decades.
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