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Total Members Voted: 701

Author Topic: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm  (Read 666910 times)

Offline Circa1892

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24560 on: August 18, 2019, 09:35:50 PM »
This whole Barclay signing that Act is red meat to the thicker of the avid Brexit lot and nothing more.

Someone nobody has heard of in a Cabinet role that won’t exist in a few months signing an act that could easily be made obsolete...

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24561 on: August 19, 2019, 11:56:18 AM »
Quote
Great look for the Labour party when journalists asking legitimate questions about a caretaker govt, how long Corbyn wants to remain in power, and issues on parliamentary arithmetic, are barely heard over heckles from Corbynistas like it's a football match, not a political event.

https://twitter.com/juliamacfarlane/status/1163401281597313024

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24564 on: August 19, 2019, 12:22:24 PM »
Is there footage?

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsPolitics/status/1163409051750981639

Quote
.@andybell5news asks whether Jeremy Corbyn would be willing to step aside and let someone else lead a govt of national unity.

Labour members at the speech try to drown him out, one shouting "what a disgrace!" Others heckling.

Incredible hostility towards journalists.

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1163400481936478208

Such behaviour would be appalling at any time but the timing is especially awful during a speech in which Corbyn called Johnson "Britain's Trump" Still the GOP Labour "moderates" are happy to put him into power.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 12:29:19 PM by ShakaHislop »

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24565 on: August 19, 2019, 12:30:59 PM »
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsPolitics/status/1163409051750981639

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1163400481936478208

Such behaviour would be appalling at any time but the timing is especially awful during a speech in which Corbyn called Johnson "Britain's Trump" Still the GOP Labour "moderates" are happy to put him into power.

He asked the question twice you fucking blagger.

Hate the way the bastard just kept quiet so his sycophants would step in,hate him,fucking hate him.
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24566 on: August 19, 2019, 12:33:10 PM »
Don't know who this is. Don't know which part of the Labour party they're from. But if it's ever revealed who's said it, make sure they're responsible for nothing more important than the choice of biscuits at meetings.

Quote
Labour MPs are drawing up a plan to reverse Brexit AFTER we have left the EU – if Jeremy Corbyn fails in his bid to lead a national unity government.

A unity coalition of anti-Brexit politicians would need to be formed by early September to have any hope of stopping PM Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson crashing the UK out of the EU without a deal on October 31.

But a senior Labour MP said: “ Brexit has torn up the constitutional rulebook.

So just because something is done it doesn’t mean it can’t be undone.

“So once Article 50 is ­triggered we can pass ­legislation to untrigger it.”

Mirror

In the words of Anand Menon, "WTAF".
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24567 on: August 19, 2019, 12:42:24 PM »
Wouldn’t trust them with the biscuits, they’ll mess up the celiacs in the room

Online ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24568 on: August 19, 2019, 12:43:34 PM »
Quote
Journalists booed and heckled as they question Corbyn on Brexit. Not good. Audience reminded to ‘be polite’.

https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1163400484897644546

Quote
Sad to see journalists being heckled at @jeremycorbyn event.

Journalists have to be able to ask uncomfortable questions!!!

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1163400770672373760

Offline Mark Walters

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24569 on: August 19, 2019, 12:45:38 PM »
Don't know who this is. Don't know which part of the Labour party they're from. But if it's ever revealed who's said it, make sure they're responsible for nothing more important than the choice of biscuits at meetings.

Mirror

In the words of Anand Menon, "WTAF".
Makes perfect sense to try to reverse Brexit after leaving the EU if it can't be done before.
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Online Ghost Town

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24570 on: August 19, 2019, 12:45:43 PM »
Not the first time politicians have shown themselves to be ignorant of the process and terminology of Brexit. Among the many, many reasons why revoking A50 would be the most sensible action going forward is this lack of understanding. You wouldn't let scientists of engineers or doctors meddle with nature or build structures and systems or carry out procedures when they didn't understand what they were doing. It's irresponsible to go ahead with something that is so poorly understood.

Maybe after revoking all politicians could attend a mandatory course to teach them what leaving the EU entails, and how all the steps work, and what effects they have. Maybe some wouldn't so keen to do it then.
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24571 on: August 19, 2019, 12:47:26 PM »
Makes perfect sense to try to reverse Brexit after leaving the EU if it can't be done before.


Quote
“So once Article 50 is ­triggered we can pass ­legislation to untrigger it.”
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Online Trada

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24572 on: August 19, 2019, 12:48:30 PM »
https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1163400484897644546

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1163400770672373760

You have to laugh at the media pretending to act all shocked at the reaction, when they have been trying to bring down Jeremy none stop for 4 years asks Jeremy a question in a room full of Labour activists who have voted for him twice to be Labour leader ask the same question about 3 times, if he should stand down because the Tories and the Dems don't like him.
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Offline redmark

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24573 on: August 19, 2019, 12:49:00 PM »
Still the GOP Labour "moderates" are happy to put him into power.

No, they/we are not.
We Are Liverpool.

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24574 on: August 19, 2019, 12:52:09 PM »
You have to laugh at the media pretending to act all shocked at the reaction, when they have been trying to bring down Jeremy none stop for 4 years asks Jeremy a question in a room full of Labour activists who have voted for him twice to be Labour leader ask the same question about 3 times, if he should stand down because the Tories and the Dems don't like him.


I don't find any of this funny.I used to laugh at people in your little gang but now you all just make my piss boil.


Do you have kids Dave ?
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Online ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24575 on: August 19, 2019, 12:52:33 PM »
No, they/we are not.

Well they are via the GoNU route, and they won't move to replace him as leader before a GE that is called without there being a GoNU, in which case they would be campaigning for him to become PM.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 12:54:08 PM by ShakaHislop »

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24576 on: August 19, 2019, 12:53:26 PM »
You have to laugh at the media pretending to act all shocked at the reaction, when they have been trying to bring down Jeremy none stop for 4 years asks Jeremy a question in a room full of Labour activists who have voted for him twice to be Labour leader ask the same question about 3 times, if he should stand down because the Tories and the Dems don't like him.

Journalists asking questions. What is the world coming to? I blame Nick Clegg.

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24577 on: August 19, 2019, 12:54:49 PM »
Journalists asking questions. What is the world coming to? I blame Nick Clegg  the Tory Blairites.

Have you not been paying attention ?
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24578 on: August 19, 2019, 12:55:54 PM »
Makes perfect sense to try to reverse Brexit after leaving the EU if it can't be done before.

Aye, there's an 'if' to it doing a lot of work though.

Vernon Bogdanor's ideas are cited in support. When he first proposed them the response from other legal experts (in British law and European) was robust. eg. in a letter to The Times replying to an article by him.

Quote
Sir

Vernon Bogdanor suggests three ways of preventing or reversing a no-deal Brexit (“How the Commons could thwart Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson’s no-deal Brexit”, 9 August). All of them are legally misconceived. Parliament cannot “pass legislation extending the Brexit date”. The most it can do in this respect is require the Prime Minister to seek an extension. Nor would repealing the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017 have any relevant effect. It authorised the triggering of Article 50, but its repeal would not halt the withdrawal process. Finally, it is suggested that a Remain Parliament elected after 31 October could, with the EU’s agreement, legislate retrospectively to deem the UK never to have withdrawn. But withdrawal occurs by default operation of EU law on Hallowe’en. Domestic legislation cannot alter that, and the EU Treaties provide no legal basis for retrospectively restoring UK membership. If Parliament is serious about preventing a no-deal Brexit, the only legally watertight way of doing so is the enactment of legislation requiring the Prime Minister to revoke the UK’s Article 50 notification.

Yours

Professor Mark Elliott
Professor of Public Law
University of Cambridge

Elliott's blog, quoting letter

Reversing Brexit after we've left isn't just repealing Article 50 and hoping the EU look the other way but an application to rejoin. Which is a bit more complex.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 12:58:18 PM by Zeb »
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And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24579 on: August 19, 2019, 01:01:05 PM »
Not the first time politicians have shown themselves to be ignorant of the process and terminology of Brexit. Among the many, many reasons why revoking A50 would be the most sensible action going forward is this lack of understanding. You wouldn't let scientists of engineers or doctors meddle with nature or build structures and systems or carry out procedures when they didn't understand what they were doing. It's irresponsible to go ahead with something that is so poorly understood.

Maybe after revoking all politicians could attend a mandatory course to teach them what leaving the EU entails, and how all the steps work, and what effects they have. Maybe some wouldn't so keen to do it then.
Of course, the proper answer is to have properly educated and informed public, who can then make rational decisions about who they vote into Parliament. This means free, life-long education, and some reasonable restraints upon the media (in particular, a requirement for major shareholders of newspapers to be domicile in the UK, and real consequences for the publication of lies with the intent to sway voting and the like). If some people are going to attack our democratic processes, then democracy has to be defended. I accept that there will be some tricky lines to draw, but I think it can and must be done. As for the Internet: that's a whole lot more tricky.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 01:03:05 PM by Jiminy Cricket »

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24580 on: August 19, 2019, 01:07:16 PM »
Don't know who this is. Don't know which part of the Labour party they're from. But if it's ever revealed who's said it, make sure they're responsible for nothing more important than the choice of biscuits at meetings.

Mirror

In the words of Anand Menon, "WTAF".

Labour MPs are drawing up a plan to reverse Brexit AFTER we have left the EU – if Jeremy Corbyn fails in his bid to lead a national unity government.

A unity coalition of anti-Brexit politicians would need to be formed by early September to have any hope of stopping PM Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson crashing the UK out of the EU without a deal on October 31.

But a senior Labour MP said: “ Brexit has torn up the constitutional rulebook.

So just because something is done it doesn’t mean it can’t be undone.

“So once Article 50 is ­triggered we can pass ­legislation to untrigger it.”

I think it's probably about our legal position, the EU would only recognise the triggering of art 50 if the decision was made following our parliamentary legal process so the assumption is we can only crash out if our parliamentary legal process has been followed, if Parliament instructs Johnson to ask for a extension and he refuses then we are leaving without the consent of our Parliament.
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Offline Andy

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24581 on: August 19, 2019, 01:10:43 PM »
You have to laugh at the media pretending to act all shocked at the reaction, when they have been trying to bring down Jeremy none stop for 4 years asks Jeremy a question in a room full of Labour activists who have voted for him twice to be Labour leader ask the same question about 3 times, if he should stand down because the Tories and the Dems don't like him.

Do you have to laugh?

Maybe naive to ask him confrontational questions in front of his hardcore fans, but they should be asking him these sorts of questions.

Did they ask him to 'stand down', or just accept someone else as temp leader of a unity government?

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24582 on: August 19, 2019, 01:19:55 PM »
I think it's probably about our legal position, the EU would only recognise the triggering of art 50 if the decision was made following our parliamentary legal process so the assumption is we can only crash out if our parliamentary legal process has been followed, if Parliament instructs Johnson to ask for a extension and he refuses then we are leaving without the consent of our Parliament.

Wouldn't the legal default need to be changed to 'revoke Article 50 on 31st October' for that to matter? Otherwise there's nothing there which isn't according to our constitutional arrangements as Parliament agreed to start the Article 50 process and everything which follows is a result of that. Whereas the assumption in all of that from Bogdanor and that Labour MP is that everything fails and doesn't matter because it can be quickly fixed after the fact.
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24583 on: August 19, 2019, 01:30:40 PM »
I think it's probably about our legal position, the EU would only recognise the triggering of art 50 if the decision was made following our parliamentary legal process so the assumption is we can only crash out if our parliamentary legal process has been followed, if Parliament instructs Johnson to ask for a extension and he refuses then we are leaving without the consent of our Parliament.
But A50 has already been triggered, in 2017, following proper constitutional processes. Now it's just a countdown, absent any extensions.

We had this conversation some days ago, about whether constitutional processes have any effect on the A50 period elapsing and the treaties automatically ceasing to apply. I don't think we have much clarity on it. On the surface it seems like the government can force a crash-out by refusing to do anything further. I suspect the courts would have to rule on this for it to be any different
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24584 on: August 19, 2019, 01:44:58 PM »
Article 50.

"1.   Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements."

Was the decision to trigger Article 50 made according to Britain's constitutional requirements? Yes. Miller's case established that the bar to clear for that was Parliamentary approval to begin the Article 50 process. If Parliament wants to stop that process, it can legislate to make it so.

"3.   The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period."

Is Britain out of the EU on 31st October should it not agree an extension or revoke Article 50? Yes.

"5.   If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49."

Does Britain want to rejoin after leaving? Put in an application like everybody else.
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Offline Classycara

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24585 on: August 19, 2019, 01:45:32 PM »
Do you have to laugh?

Maybe naive to ask him confrontational questions in front of his hardcore fans, but they should be asking him these sorts of questions.

Did they ask him to 'stand down', or just accept someone else as temp leader of a unity government?
There's nothing naive in the press asking obvious questions, at a press event they've organised to get press coverage from. I mean they aren't even confrontational, it's just that Corbyn fans are incredibly thin skinned people.

The organisers knew what they're doing. Only the weirdest of sad little weirdos would be available (and desire) to attend an event like that on a Monday morning.

As ever the saddest of the hardcore corbynistas are immune to spotting irony - a day after Corbyn talks up the importance of the freedom of the press to hold us accountable and to ask tough questions, they are too shit scared of how bad he is to allow their man a voice to answer a basic question. And Corbyn is all too delighted to have a different way to weasel out of the question than doing it by proxy with the press officer shield he had on stage


PS Trada please don't lie like that, worse than a tabloid (more like a weird politics blog posing as journalism). Some people might be foolish enough to trust your version of events. They weren't asking him would he stand down as leader, they asked would he support another leader of a unity government in the event he didn't have enough numbers supporting him.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 01:48:02 PM by Classycara »

Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24586 on: August 19, 2019, 01:46:11 PM »
He asked the question twice you fucking blagger.

Hate the way the bastard just kept quiet so his sycophants would step in,hate him,fucking hate him.


I don't find any of this funny.I used to laugh at people in your little gang but now you all just make my piss boil.


Do you have kids Dave ?
Have you thought of quitting this online politics thing ?

Offline Classycara

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24587 on: August 19, 2019, 01:51:28 PM »
Don't know who this is. Don't know which part of the Labour party they're from. But if it's ever revealed who's said it, make sure they're responsible for nothing more important than the choice of biscuits at meetings.

Mirror

In the words of Anand Menon, "WTAF".

McDonnell has been talking about constitutional practices and loves saying rulebook. He's be my guess.

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24588 on: August 19, 2019, 01:54:05 PM »

I don't find any of this funny.I used to laugh at people in your little gang but now you all just make my piss boil.


Do you have kids Dave ?

They asked the questions and he answered them.  Oh dear there was a few groans and back chat when they did I sure they are ok and won't be having a little cry about it.

It was a brilliant speech by Jeremy and great that it was shown live in full on BBCnews, Skynews and BBC2 that makes a change.
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Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24589 on: August 19, 2019, 01:55:29 PM »
It was a brilliant speech by Jeremy and great that it was shown live in full on BBCnews, Skynews and BBC2 that makes a change.

Amazing what can happen when the leader of the opposition decides to do their job and talk about the main issue facing the country, eh? Good to see him make a change.

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24590 on: August 19, 2019, 01:59:09 PM »
Have you thought of quitting this online politics thing ?

You do realise that only one of those posts was an actual reply to another member right ?


And I stand by both of them.
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24591 on: August 19, 2019, 02:01:26 PM »
They asked the questions and he answered them.  Oh dear there was a few groans and back chat when they did I sure they are ok and won't be having a little cry about it.

It was a brilliant speech by Jeremy and great that it was shown live in full on BBCnews, Skynews and BBC2 that makes a change.


He could drop a vindaloo shit on your sleeping forehead and you'd announce how it was the greatest alarm clock and best start to the day ever.

He was asked twice about stepping aside if that was the only way to get a unity Gov & he failed to answer.

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Offline Mark Walters

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24592 on: August 19, 2019, 02:13:49 PM »
“So once Article 50 is ­triggered we can pass ­legislation to untrigger it.”

That's not my point. For one, it's not up to Labour to revoke A50 as they're not in power. Secondly, given that Boris wants to shut down Parliament to leave with a ND despite the wishes of most of Parliament (and the mostly sensible people of this country), the only option would be to do it after the event. (Yes, legalities and all that but...!)
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24593 on: August 19, 2019, 02:15:15 PM »
The party of Refrain

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Labour could be officially neutral in any second referendum, John McDonnell suggests

...

This morning John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, has been giving interviews ahead of it. Here are the main points from what he told the Today programme.

    McDonnell said Labour was backing the call made by 100 MPs, from all the opposition parties and from the Conservatives, for parliament to be recalled. Asked if Labour supported the initiative, he replied:

    "I agree - I think it is a good initiative by this group of MPs to say that we need to get back into parliament. We are facing a critical issue here and should be debating it in parliament ...

    There is a need now to bring MPs back together again because we need time now to really have a proper debate and discussion about this matter.
"

But MPs are not due to return to the Commons until a fortnight tomorrow, and parliament only gets recalled during a recess in response to a request from the government. And Number 10 is firmly ruling out a recall.

    McDonnell reaffirmed Labour’s opposition to backing an interim government to stop a no-deal Brexit led by anyone other than Jeremy Corbyn. Asked to confirm that Labour would not support a vote in the Commons for someone else to lead an interim, cross-party government of this kind, McDonnell replied:

    "No, we won’t. We want to abide by the normal constitutional practice."


Labour argues that, if the prime minister loses the confidence of the Commons, the normal procedure is for the leader of the opposition to be invited to form a government.

    McDonnell said Corbyn would host talks with other opposition party leaders next week to discuss what could be done to prevent a no-deal Brexit. He said:

   "Jeremy is going to bring the [leaders] of the opposition parties together - he has already had some conversations - he will bring them together again next week and talk about how we go forward. We don’t believe [having an interim government led by someone other than Corbyn] is a negotiable issue."

    McDonnell said that a no confidence vote, leading to the establishment of a new government, was not the only mechanism available to prevent a no-deal Brexit. He said:

   "I think the big issue now is how do we prevent [no deal], and the no confidence motion is one mechanism.

    But, as Jeremy has said today, there’s other mechanisms people are looking at, other parliamentary mechanisms, and we want to have a proper discussion and dialogue on a cross-party basis on what those mechanisms are.
"

    McDonnell claimed there was growing support in the Commons for holding a second referendum. He said:

    "I think the opposition parties and reaching across to Conservative MPs as well, I think there is still a majority in parliament to say to Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson that we will not accept a no-deal.

    I think there is a gaining majority now to say we have to go back to the people in some form of public vote and that is, in my view, a referendum, that’s the Labour party policy now, and therefore we are narrowing down the discussion into what then goes on the ballot paper.
"

    He did not rule out the Labour party officially being neutral in any second referendum on Brexit. Labour has said it would go into a general election promising a referendum on Brexit, with voters given the choice between backing remain and a credible leave option. McDonnell said he personally would campaign for remain. But asked if he would be happy for the party as a whole to be “agnostic” on the issue, McDonnell replied:

    "That’s one of the issues we’ve got to debate in the party. You know our democratic processes. I know people get frustrated with this ... but we’re a democratic party."

Although most Labour members want to remain in the EU, the shadow cabinet is deeply divided on this issue and there have been hints before that Corbyn could resolve this tension by allowing Labour members to take either side in a second referendum, with the party machine staying neutral. This is broadly the approach Harold Wilson took in the 1975 referendum. Recently Corbyn told the shadow cabinet that he had been reading a Wilson biography to learn more about how the then prime minister handled that issue.

    McDonnell said a future Labour government could hold a second referendum before negotiating a new Brexit deal with Europe. When this idea was put to him, he said this was “one option” being looked at. But he also said that, if the party decided to negotiate a new Brexit deal first, before putting it to the people, that process could be concluded relatively quickly. He rejected the suggestion it would take a year. He explained:

"If you look at what’s happened in the past, the reason it has dragged on in the negotiations in the past, to find out what is credible and what is not, is because the options that have been put forward have not been credible."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/aug/19/brexit-latest-news-jeremy-corbyn-speech-labour-could-be-officially-neutral-in-any-second-referendum-campaign-john-mcdonnell-suggests-live-news?page=with:block-5d5a52128f084f687f359029#block-5d5a52128f084f687f359029


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Corbyn's Q&A

Corbyn is now taking questions.

Q: You say you will do anything in your power to stop a no-deal Brexit. Would that include stepping aside as leader of a caretaker government?

Labour supporters in the audience shout “no”. At least one person says the question is a disgrace. They also complain when a second journalist suggests Corbyn does not have enough support to become PM himself.

Corbyn says he will do everthing to stop a no-deal Brexit.

He is leader of the opposition, he says. All the precedent is that the leader of the opposition should be given the chance to form a government when the government falls.

There is a lot of “what iffery” around, he says.

He says if Tory MPs and others are serious about stopping no deal, they should support his no confidence motion. They should “get on board”, he says.

    Corbyn says all MPs opposed to no deal should back him as PM of an interim government.

Q: Do you think parliament should be recalled immediately?

Yes, shout Labour members in the audience.

Corbyn says he does support the recall of parliament.

Q: Could Labour remain neutral in a second referendum on Brexit?

Corbyn says he wants to bring people together. There has to be an understanding of why particular communities voted leave. He is offering policies that would transform society, he says.

He says Labour would make sure people have the final say and the final choice.

    Corbyn refuses to rule out Labour officially remaining neutral in a second referendum on Brexit held after a general election.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/aug/19/brexit-latest-news-jeremy-corbyn-speech-labour-could-be-officially-neutral-in-any-second-referendum-campaign-john-mcdonnell-suggests-live-news?page=with:block-5d5a7c288f08c7e177d4d1b5#block-5d5a7c288f08c7e177d4d1b5

Quote
Corbyn refuses to commit to backing remain in second referendum

Q: Why do you think so many Labour MPs do not see you as the right person to lead an interim government?

Corbyn says he was elected Labour leader in 2015, to the surprise of the mainstream media. He was elected again in 2016. He is sure all Labour MPs want to join him in backing a no confidence motion against the government.

Q: John McDonnell said this morning he would campaign for remain in a second referendum. Would you? And if not, can you see why remainers have doubts about your leadership?

Corbyn says McDonnell was giving his personal view.

He says the real issue is what must be done to end inequality in Britain.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/aug/19/brexit-latest-news-jeremy-corbyn-speech-labour-could-be-officially-neutral-in-any-second-referendum-campaign-john-mcdonnell-suggests-live-news?page=with:block-5d5a7dff8f084f687f3591af#block-5d5a7dff8f084f687f3591af
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 02:18:42 PM by ShakaHislop »

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24594 on: August 19, 2019, 02:25:50 PM »
Threat to end freedom of movement overnight is reckless, say EU citizens

Ending freedom of movement for EU citizens immediately after a no-deal Brexit would be reckless and could create a hostile environment for European nationals, a campaign group has said.

The3million, a citizens group that represents the rights of EU nationals in the UK, was responding to the news that the home secretary, Priti Patel, intended to impose new border restrictions overnight on 31 October if Britain left the EU without a deal, despite reports that an internal government discussion paper had warned that doing so could present “legitimate concerns of another Windrush”.

The document also set out details of an alternative plan to maintain freedom of movement until January 2021 and to allow EU immigrants who came to the UK in the meantime to apply to stay under existing “settled status” rules.

But Home Office sources told the Times that the document did not reflect government thinking and that freedom of movement for people from EU countries would end “on October 31 should we leave without a deal”.

Amid reports that the government wishes to make the change through a statutory instrument – meaning that MPs would only be required to endorse the move after its implementation – the3million said the plan could open the way to mass discrimination.

The group renewed its call for all EU nationals to be automatically granted settled status and accused the prime minister, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, of undermining his promise to guarantee the rights and protections of EU citizens.

“The idea of ending freedom of movement abruptly on 31 October in case of no deal is reckless politics,” said Nicholas Hatton, the group’s founder. “It hollows out the prime minister’s unequivocal guarantee to EU citizens he has given only three weeks ago.

“Ending freedom of movement without putting legal provisions in place for those EU citizens who have not yet successfully applied through the settlement scheme will mean that millions of lawful citizens will have their legal status removed overnight.

“We have been calling for the settlement scheme to be a declaratory registration scheme, so all EU citizens who have made the UK their home are automatically granted status, as promised by those in government.

“Otherwise this will open the door to mass discrimination under the hostile environment, with employers, landlords, banks and the NHS unable to distinguish between those EU citizens with the right to live and work in the UK and those without.”

A Home Office spokesperson told the Independent: “The home secretary has been clear in her intention to take back control of our borders and end free movement after 31 October.

“Ending free movement means we are no longer required to give unlimited and uncontrolled access to those from EU countries when they are coming here seeking to work.”

The Home Office minister Brandon Lewis said last week that more than 1 million people had been granted settled or pre-settled status through the scheme, after 1,038,100 people applied by 31 July. It was unclear how many other EU nationals have since had their applications received.

The deadline for applying to the EU settlement scheme if the UK leaves the bloc without a deal is 31 December 2020.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/19/threat-to-end-freedom-of-movement-overnight-reckless-say-eu-citizens

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24595 on: August 19, 2019, 02:33:10 PM »
Do you have to laugh?

Maybe naive to ask him confrontational questions in front of his hardcore fans, but they should be asking him these sorts of questions.

Did they ask him to 'stand down', or just accept someone else as temp leader of a unity government?
he does a speech comparing boris to trump and his supporters act like trump supporters to the media, not good optics, then again his supporters aren’t the brightest

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24596 on: August 19, 2019, 02:40:39 PM »
Corbyn this, Corbyn that! ::) FFS, people need to wake up and smell the coffee.  It wasn't Corbyn that forced 10 years of austerity on this country that led disillusioned people to vote for Brexit. It's also not Corbyn's job to fix it unless there is a GE which votes the Labour party into power.  Perhaps the "Corbynistas" recognise that for the good of this country it's best to not cause even more turmoil in the Labour party than has already been caused by the media hyping the antisemitism thing while repeatedly failing to ask Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson about the "letterboxes" and "pickanninnies with watermelon smiles" in the same way that Clinton was hyped for her emails while Donald "grab them by the pussy" Trump was given a free ride! Perhaps the "Corbynistas" focus not on personalities but on policies and party manifestos instead and if the rest of the country did they same this country wouldn't be in the mess it is now!
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24597 on: August 19, 2019, 02:42:20 PM »
Corbyn this, Corbyn that! ::) FFS, people need to wake up and smell the coffee.  It wasn't Corbyn that forced 10 years of austerity on this country that led disillusioned people to vote for Brexit. It's also not Corbyn's job to fix it unless there is a GE which votes the Labour party into power.  Perhaps the "Corbynistas" recognise that for the good of this country it's best to not cause even more turmoil in the Labour party than has already been caused by the media hyping the antisemitism thing while repeatedly failing to ask Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson about the "letterboxes" and "pickanninnies with watermelon smiles" in the same way that Clinton was hyped for her emails while Donald "grab them by the pussy" Trump was given a free ride! Perhaps the "Corbynistas" focus not on personalities but on policies and party manifestos instead and if the rest of the country did they same this country wouldn't be in the mess it is now!

So much wrong with this.

Corbyn's been in charge of Labour for 4 years out of the 9 of austerity and could have ended it 2 years ago, had he been able to lead Labour to victory in the GE that year. He didn't, he lost and was rejected by the public yet he refused to step down (as he did when the vast majority of his own MPs indicated they had no confidence in him)

You act as if Corbyn and Labour are completely helpless because they're not in government, which I completely disagree with. Furthermore, rather than try to "fix" Brexit, Corbyn has supported it going ahead for the 3 years since the vote and didn't even entertain the idea of any 2nd referendum for years, let alone one with an option to Remain. Calling him completely useless on the issue is being kind.

"Hyping" the antisemitism issue is effectively the same as calling the allegations smears, which is problematic in itself. Plus, the media did cover the "letterbox" comment from Johnson, as they have the allegations of Islamaphobia within the Tory party.

Claiming "Corbynistas" don't focus on personalities is laughable too, considering how sensitive they are to any criticism of their main man.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 02:54:29 PM by ShakaHislop »

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24598 on: August 19, 2019, 02:42:38 PM »
McDonnell has been talking about constitutional practices and loves saying rulebook. He's be my guess.

Ah would make sense. Most bizarre watching them attempt to invent things. Same thing with this idea that Leader of the Opposition is automatically next up to form a government if a government loses a VoNC. It's just daubing everything with crap to try and cover up their own failures and limitations.
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"Maybe in life it's impossible to give 100 per cent to your job. Okay, I'll accept 98 per cent" Rafa Benitez