Author Topic: Loan Watch 2018-2019  (Read 136243 times)

Offline RyanBabel19

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #480 on: December 2, 2018, 01:35:33 PM »
Would be quite fun seeing Shaqiri, Trent and Wilson standing over freekicks next season

Offline Magix

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #481 on: December 2, 2018, 01:48:51 PM »
The lad's fast, certainly quicker than the likes of  Shaqiri, Bobby, Solanke and possibly Origi.
Doesn't look any slower than Bobby is or Phil was to be fair to him

I'll defer to both of you since I haven't seen enough of him in games to speak definitively on his pace. What's encouraging for me, in addition to his goal-getting and freekick-taking, is his intelligence to find and make space, and use that space well, in those pockets between the opposition defensive lines. A much more valuable attribute than outright pace.

Offline sminp

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #482 on: December 2, 2018, 01:59:24 PM »
I wouldn’t call him fast, he’s quick off the mark though which is much more important for a footballer. There won’t be many that can beat him off the mark over the first 10-20 yards but stick him in a 100m race I don’t think he’d be the fastest (Salah would destroy everyone in that).
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Offline plucking affattedgoose

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #483 on: December 2, 2018, 02:03:45 PM »
The lad's fast, certainly quicker than the likes of  Shaqiri, Bobby, Solanke and possibly Origi.

Evidence?
Or he could read Babu's Twitter threads, which is where I get my opinions from

Offline newterp

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #484 on: December 2, 2018, 02:04:34 PM »
Origi is actually pretty fast - might not “look” it since he’s tall/gangly

Offline RyanBabel19

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #485 on: December 2, 2018, 02:07:25 PM »
I wouldn’t call him fast, he’s quick off the mark though which is much more important for a footballer. There won’t be many that can beat him off the mark over the first 10-20 yards but stick him in a 100m race I don’t think he’d be the fastest (Salah would destroy everyone in that).

Apparently Gomez is the lad that would win out in that according to a few at the club

/

Origi and Solanke are both quicker than people seem to realise

Offline Adeemo

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #486 on: December 2, 2018, 02:15:10 PM »
Evidence?

From watching a fair bit of him, especially with the u23's. I would say he and Kent were about as quick as each other. Put it this way, not once have I thought he's too slow to make the 1st team. Never even entered my thinking whilst watching him, until reading through this thread.
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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #487 on: December 2, 2018, 02:16:14 PM »
Evidence?

I think there is a video on reddit of all his goals this season, i think the first one he's legging it up the pitch and flying

there we go

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Offline santa tubbytits

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #488 on: December 2, 2018, 07:41:25 PM »
Apparently Gomez is the lad that would win out in that according to a few at the club

/

Origi and Solanke are both quicker than people seem to realise

Yeah, Salah isn't winning a 100m race, his speed is over short distances to get the drop on defenders.  The taller players will be quicker over a longer distance.  Wilson isn't slow nor is he a pace merchant, but his touch and movement is so good that it makes him look quicker than he actually is.
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Offline Byrneand

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #489 on: December 5, 2018, 02:31:18 PM »
Just been watching the Wilson goal compilation and lots of them are pretty damn special. That being said, I don't watch him week in/week out at Derby and so just wondering why his assists are so low. Anyone got any ideas?

Will be interesting to see how/if he gets a chance at Liverpool next year. The sad reality is that I can't see us not going out and spending big in his position on the off chance he might be able to step up next year.

For the record, I like what I see so it shouldn't be interpreted that I'm bashing him
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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #490 on: December 5, 2018, 03:04:32 PM »
Sounds like Grujić was good on the weekend as Hertha BSC won 2-0. In the Bundesliga team of the week.

He's playing as one of the 2 in a 4-2-3-1 which is giving him a great chance to impress Klopp.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #491 on: December 5, 2018, 03:31:05 PM »
Sounds like Grujić was good on the weekend as Hertha BSC won 2-0. In the Bundesliga team of the week.

He's playing as one of the 2 in a 4-2-3-1 which is giving him a great chance to impress Klopp.

he's doing really well there. Seems like an excellent loan for him. They love him there too, the fans are hoping   that somehow they can keep him next season too  :D   
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #492 on: December 6, 2018, 03:09:47 PM »
he's doing really well there. Seems like an excellent loan for him. They love him there too, the fans are hoping   that somehow they can keep him next season too  :D   

Actually, they're now hoping they can keep him beyond Christmas. Lampard has just said Liverpool can get him back for January if they wish.
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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #493 on: December 6, 2018, 03:13:25 PM »
Actually, they're now hoping they can keep him beyond Christmas. Lampard has just said Liverpool can get him back for January if they wish.

Very interesting!

Offline Dim glas yn siaced Santa

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #494 on: December 6, 2018, 03:15:13 PM »
Actually, they're now hoping they can keep him beyond Christmas. Lampard has just said Liverpool can get him back for January if they wish.

I was talking bout Grujic and the Hertha BSC fans  :)

I read that about Wilson though just now, I guess it may depend on injuries / sales as to what Liverpool do.  I'd guess they'd prefer he stays and plays though, rather than be sat on the bench here. Nice option though!
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Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #495 on: December 6, 2018, 06:44:39 PM »
Not digging Wilson's shot chart but am willing to give it some more time.

Offline tornado

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #496 on: December 6, 2018, 06:47:44 PM »
Sounds like Grujić was good on the weekend as Hertha BSC won 2-0. In the Bundesliga team of the week.

He's playing as one of the 2 in a 4-2-3-1 which is giving him a great chance to impress Klopp.
Good to hear that and fact that he is back after his injury. Had a good start this season, then got derailed by injury.

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #497 on: December 6, 2018, 06:57:49 PM »
Not digging Wilson's shot chart but am willing to give it some more time.

Who gives a fuck about a shot chart when you can hit them like that from 30 yards. I'm a fan of stats but they're not the be all and end all, lads a player everyone can see it.
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Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #498 on: December 6, 2018, 09:11:39 PM »
Who gives a fuck about a shot chart when you can hit them like that from 30 yards. I'm a fan of stats but they're not the be all and end all, lads a player everyone can see it.

A player good enough for LFC though is the question.  At this point I'd say no. 

Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #499 on: December 6, 2018, 09:49:40 PM »
A player good enough for LFC though is the question.  At this point I'd say no.

If he was playing for them permanently - much like Maddison at Norwich - I can't help but think that would be a different answer. He's done nothing to suggest he isn't good enough for us long term throughout his time here as youth and senior.

Offline Djozer

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #500 on: December 6, 2018, 10:20:49 PM »
The lad's fast, certainly quicker than the likes of  Shaqiri, Bobby, Solanke and possibly Origi.
Ain't no way he's as quick as Origi. I reckon he's about Shaqiri's speed, ie pretty slow for an archetypal wide man though reasonable for a CM, but like Shaqiri he can probably make up for it with his technical attributes.

No offence, but I really don't see where this idea of him being quick comes from. He's not. It may not be a dealbreaker with regards to his future here, but it could be unless he shifts centrally.

Offline phil236849

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #501 on: December 6, 2018, 10:40:14 PM »
Don't quite understand those who are certain Harry Wilson isn't good enough for us and very keen to broadcast that view.  He has been with us for years, has an excellent record at youth, Championship and international level.  That level of pedigree is not everyday.  Is the Welsh thing a problem for some?  Not saying it is, and not aware it has been with the likes of Rusty, Saunders and even Woodburn, just that I really can't understand why some don't want him to have his chance.

Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #502 on: December 6, 2018, 11:18:29 PM »
If he was playing for them permanently - much like Maddison at Norwich - I can't help but think that would be a different answer. He's done nothing to suggest he isn't good enough for us long term throughout his time here as youth and senior.

I can't speak for anybody but myself.  Maddison and Wilson are completely different players.  When I look at what Wilson is doing at Derby I see a winger that shoots 3 times a game from distance, takes their free kicks and doesn't add much else.  That's not a combination that leads to consistent goal scoring unless he's the greatest long ranged shooter in history which I somewhat doubt he is.

Don't quite understand those who are certain Harry Wilson isn't good enough for us and very keen to broadcast that view.  He has been with us for years, has an excellent record at youth, Championship and international level.  That level of pedigree is not everyday.  Is the Welsh thing a problem for some?  Not saying it is, and not aware it has been with the likes of Rusty, Saunders and even Woodburn, just that I really can't understand why some don't want him to have his chance.

He has had his chance and it was decided he needed to be loaned as he wasn't good enough "now" to stay.  I highly doubt his time at Derby is going to change that.
« Last Edit: December 6, 2018, 11:20:05 PM by BrandoLFC »

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #503 on: December 6, 2018, 11:20:16 PM »
Ain't no way he's as quick as Origi. I reckon he's about Shaqiri's speed, ie pretty slow for an archetypal wide man though reasonable for a CM, but like Shaqiri he can probably make up for it with his technical attributes.

No offence, but I really don't see where this idea of him being quick comes from. He's not. It may not be a dealbreaker with regards to his future here, but it could be unless he shifts centrally.

It comes from the correct perception that he's quick with the ball at his feet.
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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #504 on: December 6, 2018, 11:25:42 PM »
Don't quite understand those who are certain Harry Wilson isn't good enough for us and very keen to broadcast that view.  He has been with us for years, has an excellent record at youth, Championship and international level.  That level of pedigree is not everyday.  Is the Welsh thing a problem for some?  Not saying it is, and not aware it has been with the likes of Rusty, Saunders and even Woodburn, just that I really can't understand why some don't want him to have his chance.

Maybe because he's almost 22 and he's only had half a season with Hull and half a season with Derby in the Championship. Also, Klopp has never given him a look in while the likes of Kent and Woodburn have been given time in the cups by Klopp. Not saying he's definitely not going to make it but he's up against it.

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #505 on: December 6, 2018, 11:35:36 PM »
I can't speak for anybody but myself.  Maddison and Wilson are completely different players.  When I look at what Wilson is doing at Derby I see a winger that shoots 3 times a game from distance, takes their free kicks and doesn't add much else.  That's not a combination that leads to consistent goal scoring unless he's the greatest long ranged shooter in history which I somewhat doubt he is.

He has had his chance and it was decided he needed to be loaned as he wasn't good enough "now" to stay.  I highly doubt his time at Derby is going to change that.

But you're not looking at him, you're looking at numbers on a screen.
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Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #506 on: December 6, 2018, 11:53:49 PM »
But you're not looking at him, you're looking at numbers on a screen.

I've watched highlights, at least 2 full 90's and then corroborated with his stats.  Are you saying he's a completely different player than I'm describing? 

Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #507 on: December 7, 2018, 12:01:04 AM »
Ain't no way he's as quick as Origi. I reckon he's about Shaqiri's speed, ie pretty slow for an archetypal wide man though reasonable for a CM, but like Shaqiri he can probably make up for it with his technical attributes.

No offence, but I really don't see where this idea of him being quick comes from. He's not. It may not be a dealbreaker with regards to his future here, but it could be unless he shifts centrally.

He's faster than Origi over 5 yards, which is really all that is important. He's not slow but he's not Salah fast either. I'd say a good reference point to Wilson is Pedro. Fast in the head and over a few yards.

The age thing, he missed a long time because he had two serious injuries that set back his development which was already being managed because physically he was well off adult football three years back. I can't help but find it interesting how there's some on here who can be so certain he won't make it here despite barely watching him at all during any point of his career.

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #508 on: December 7, 2018, 12:21:34 AM »
I've watched highlights, at least 2 full 90's and then corroborated with his stats.  Are you saying he's a completely different player than I'm describing?

I think systems and styles of play will play a huge part in his numbers. He's a natural with the ball at his feet and has the technical level to play for a top 6 team. The only slight and it's a very slight concern is his athleticism but I feel that won't be a factor.
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Offline GucciMane

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #509 on: December 7, 2018, 02:36:33 AM »
If he was playing for them permanently - much like Maddison at Norwich - I can't help but think that would be a different answer. He's done nothing to suggest he isn't good enough for us long term throughout his time here as youth and senior.
yeah we will probably buy a Maddison in a year or two for crazy money. Sessengon,Crainey,Traore all killed the championship but are ehh in the PL. Wilson is doing what they are doing plus more. I would recall him...

Offline Coolie High

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #510 on: December 7, 2018, 03:47:04 AM »
I've watched highlights, at least 2 full 90's and then corroborated with his stats.  Are you saying he's a completely different player than I'm describing?

Highlights...

Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #511 on: December 7, 2018, 04:12:56 AM »
Highlights...

So you've watched all of Derby's full 90's then and have a better idea for Wilson the player in the Championship than anyone here?  If so please go over how the player that I've seen and stats confirm (high volume outside of the box shooter) is not accurate.  I want LFC to win every trophy possible and if Wilson will help do that then I'm all for it.  I just don't see it but would love to be proved wrong.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #512 on: December 7, 2018, 07:08:36 AM »
Don't quite understand those who are certain Harry Wilson isn't good enough for us and very keen to broadcast that view.  He has been with us for years, has an excellent record at youth, Championship and international level.  That level of pedigree is not everyday.  Is the Welsh thing a problem for some?  Not saying it is, and not aware it has been with the likes of Rusty, Saunders and even Woodburn, just that I really can't understand why some don't want him to have his chance.

I spoke to a Derby fan and he said that the fans are desperate for Wilson to stay and his goals have been amazing but in terms of all round play he still has loads to prove.

Maybe he will need another loan next summer but to a Premier League side?

Offline phil236849

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #513 on: December 7, 2018, 08:12:08 AM »
I can't speak for anybody but myself.  Maddison and Wilson are completely different players.  When I look at what Wilson is doing at Derby I see a winger that shoots 3 times a game from distance, takes their free kicks and doesn't add much else.  That's not a combination that leads to consistent goal scoring unless he's the greatest long ranged shooter in history which I somewhat doubt he is.

He has had his chance and it was decided he needed to be loaned as he wasn't good enough "now" to stay.  I highly doubt his time at Derby is going to change that.

Fortunately our management have a more patient approach to youth development

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #514 on: December 7, 2018, 08:42:33 AM »
So you've watched all of Derby's full 90's then and have a better idea for Wilson the player in the Championship than anyone here?  If so please go over how the player that I've seen and stats confirm (high volume outside of the box shooter) is not accurate.  I want LFC to win every trophy possible and if Wilson will help do that then I'm all for it.  I just don't see it but would love to be proved wrong.

I think there's probably a happy medium where people don't think he's already doomed to fail, but on the flip side don't think that he's already good enough to get into a team which has been performing as one the top 2/3 sides in Europe for a good 12 months now. He deserves an opportunity to see if he can maintain the form he's been showing at a good level, but its certainly not the guarantee certain posters seem to think it is. There's a few other young attacking midfielders, like Grealish or Harvey Barnes, who are also performing very well and have done previously in the Championship but then Grealish was strongly linked with Spurs over the summer for £20 million plus so again, Wilson is definitely worth a crack and hopefully he grabs it and saves us a load of money.
Or he could read Babu's Twitter threads, which is where I get my opinions from

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #515 on: December 7, 2018, 09:32:43 AM »
So you've watched all of Derby's full 90's then and have a better idea for Wilson the player in the Championship than anyone here?  If so please go over how the player that I've seen and stats confirm (high volume outside of the box shooter) is not accurate.  I want LFC to win every trophy possible and if Wilson will help do that then I'm all for it.  I just don't see it but would love to be proved wrong.

I’ve watched him from u18’s I know what type of player he is, if you don’t think he’s a goal scorer then please stop talking about him because you’ve missed the most consistent part of his game since before he was 16.
« Last Edit: December 7, 2018, 09:35:25 AM by Coolie High »

Offline phil236849

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #516 on: December 7, 2018, 12:02:47 PM »
I think there's probably a happy medium where people don't think he's already doomed to fail, but on the flip side don't think that he's already good enough to get into a team which has been performing as one the top 2/3 sides in Europe for a good 12 months now. He deserves an opportunity to see if he can maintain the form he's been showing at a good level, but its certainly not the guarantee certain posters seem to think it is. There's a few other young attacking midfielders, like Grealish or Harvey Barnes, who are also performing very well and have done previously in the Championship but then Grealish was strongly linked with Spurs over the summer for £20 million plus so again, Wilson is definitely worth a crack and hopefully he grabs it and saves us a load of money.

That sounds far too balanced for this forum.  I am not sure anyone sees Harry as a “guarantee” though, young players rarely are; just someone who now deserves a chance.  Not a radical idea for someone tearing it up in the Championship for a year

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #517 on: December 7, 2018, 01:09:56 PM »
But what chance does he deserve? A recall and a chance to play minutes ahead of players we already have between Jan-May? Or a chance to impress in training to show that he's at a better level than some of the players getting minutes for us? Because he got the latter in pre-season and Klopp decided to loan him out and go with what we have now. The onus is on Wilson to impress when he returns for pre-season and show he is better than the options we already have and by that time there may be more quality that we've bought in.

Offline KingKolo

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #518 on: December 7, 2018, 01:37:37 PM »
Wilson has now equaled the 5 goals the Jordan Ibe scored for Derby in the championship having played about 80 minutes less. Ibe was only 19 though. I can't remember people calling Ibe an incredible talent at the time. What gives?
Such a lazy argument, expect better from you.

I dunno... maybe it's a lazy argument in this case, but Ibe is a great example of how someone can look great at Championship level and be nowhere near good enough for Liverpool.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #519 on: December 7, 2018, 02:23:07 PM »
I dunno... maybe it's a lazy argument in this case, but Ibe is a great example of how someone can look great at Championship level and be nowhere near good enough for Liverpool.

And Mahrez is the opposite, so now what? Lazy argument two different players, tactically or technically there has always been a great disparity between the two.