Author Topic: Coutinho  (Read 483625 times)

Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8680 on: August 18, 2017, 06:55:45 PM »
Nonsense, the guy doesn't want to play for this club anymore.

You need to read this and understand.

This is not about Coutinho, and i don't really care that much about him. I rate the lad, but he's not more important player for us than Mane. This is about Liverpool FC - if we open the door for them now, we should expect them next summer again for Mane or any other player who does well for us. That is not what we want. When they think about Liverpool FC, they should think about this huge football club with tradition, who doesn't give a flying fuck who Barcelona fc are.

Absolutely nailed it. This is the position we are in. And this is why we can't be seen to back down.

Offline redmark

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8681 on: August 18, 2017, 06:55:49 PM »
Nonsense, the guy doesn't want to play for this club anymore.

Not that he's ever actually had this conversation with anyone (maybe in the mirror, trying to pluck up the courage, before getting his agent to do it via the media).

"I don't want to play for Liverpool again [because I want to play for Barcelona, so I won't be at Liverpool]".

Is not the same as:

"I don't want to play for Liverpool again [and if not sold, I will never play for Liverpool again, I will not be selected for Brazil, I will have no football career for five years. When I'm 30 I'll play for Barcelona]".

Like I said: I don't want to go work on Monday [because I hope to win the lottery tomorrow].

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Offline glewis93

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8682 on: August 18, 2017, 06:55:54 PM »
Nonsense, the guy doesn't want to play for this club anymore.

Well he doesn't have much choice in the matter does he.
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Offline wige

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8683 on: August 18, 2017, 06:55:59 PM »
Nonsense, the guy doesn't want to play for this club anymore.

This is an opinion. One that noone will respect. Why? Because until Barca came in, Phil was bang in form, smiling his arse off and had just signed a five year contract.

Offline J-Mc-

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8684 on: August 18, 2017, 06:56:01 PM »
Masochism.


We sold him a few years ago mate.

Offline SandyShore

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8685 on: August 18, 2017, 06:56:16 PM »
Erm Coutinho is giving his agent the go ahead to do this.
This. Pretty much none of this is happening without his consent. No idea why some are painting him out as some angel, he's hell bent on leaving and will do whatever it takes. Back Injury..transfer request, and going on strike e.t.c is the agent holding a gun to his head?  :o
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 06:57:56 PM by SandyShore »

Offline RK7

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8686 on: August 18, 2017, 06:56:55 PM »
So if Chelsea wanted him, he would have handed in the request?

Nobody knows the answer to that, he wants to leave though. We can only deal with facts.

Offline Art of Lies

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8687 on: August 18, 2017, 06:57:35 PM »
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. No one's opinion is entitled to be respected.

When you put it like that it is hard to find fault with that statement, so what else can I do other than respect your opinion that nobodies opinion is entitled to be respected! :P
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Offline liverpool185

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8688 on: August 18, 2017, 06:57:35 PM »
This. Pretty much none of this is happening without his consent. No idea why some are painting him out as some angel, he's hell bent on leaving and will do whatever it takes.

Exactly
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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8689 on: August 18, 2017, 06:57:44 PM »
We sold him a few years ago mate.

;D
We may sign Salah, but I'll show my arse in the middle of town if we sign one of VVD or Keita. Not gonna happen.

Offline redmark

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8690 on: August 18, 2017, 06:57:48 PM »
We sold him a few years ago mate.
Fuck the owners.
;)
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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8691 on: August 18, 2017, 06:58:05 PM »
Nobody knows the answer to that, he wants to leave though. We can only deal with facts.

Tough shitty he shouldn't have signed a contract with no release clause in it.
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Offline Dougle

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8692 on: August 18, 2017, 06:58:08 PM »
I am sure this has been mentioned but in case not ... Barca are screwing themselves in my opinion here. Not only are they not going to get PC in this window, with all attendant embarressment but if, if they come back for him next summer wel lwe know where the price has to be ...indeed what it has to be north of.
Cheers you bunch of arrogant messers, bid away, let's be having another one please !
See ye in the Champions League .. hopefully.

Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8693 on: August 18, 2017, 06:59:19 PM »
No idea why some are painting him out as some angel, he's hell bent on leaving and will do whatever it takes.

Who the hell is painting him as an angel in all this?...That's right...NOBODY!

Read this and understand where we are coming from.

This is not about Coutinho, and i don't really care that much about him. I rate the lad, but he's not more important player for us than Mane. This is about Liverpool FC - if we open the door for them now, we should expect them next summer again for Mane or any other player who does well for us. That is not what we want. When they think about Liverpool FC, they should think about this huge football club with tradition, who doesn't give a flying fuck who Barcelona fc are.

Offline redmark

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8694 on: August 18, 2017, 06:59:20 PM »
This. Pretty much none of this is happening without his consent. No idea why some are painting him out as some angel, he's hell bent on leaving and will do whatever it takes. Back Injury..transfer request, and going on strike e.t.c is the agent holding a gun to his head?  :o
No one is painting him as an angel. Conversations are much more fun without false extreme assertions.
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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8695 on: August 18, 2017, 06:59:25 PM »
It's almost like he wants to believe all of the crap for some reason.
Theres loads on here like that.
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Offline GregCharrua

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8696 on: August 18, 2017, 06:59:45 PM »
I did a little research online on this subject due to our interest in Keita/van Dijk.

The latest precedent is as follows (two recent cases):

Player breaks contract without cause, signs for another club, old club takes player and new club to FIFA tribunal, FIFA ban player for six months and lawyers for all parties submit evidence to FIFA tribunal to come up with a fair price for breaking the contract. In one case the player had a 25 million buyout but FIFA rules that he can go for about 10-11 million. In one case they base the price on the length of contract and the wages/bonus still due (to account for the cost of replacing player), in the other case they look at the cost to replace the player directly, in these rulings FIFA says that in each case this will be looked at differently. Player/new club then appeal to CAS, and the CAS tribunal ruling follows that of FIFA with some minor differences. In one of these cases both the player and the "buying" club could not even afford to pay.

In this case the player then takes it to the Swiss court, all the way up to the high court (this took years) and the Swiss high court rules that even if the player can not pay the penalty for breaking his contract then FIFA/CAS can not forbid him from exercising his right to employment, the contract is a civil matter, his right to work is not. The reason that the Swiss court had anything to say about this matter despite neither cases being Swiss is that both FIFA and CAS are Swiss companies and have to abide by Swiss law.

So a player can break their contract, they and the new club will have to pay for this breach, FIFA will ban the player (unless they abide by the new precedent), but the player will win in the end if they take it to court. This means the player risks a ban unless they can petition the Swiss court for a default ruling based upon existing precedent.

I think that is as comprehensive a answer you will find based on your question as it is based solely on recent cases that have actually been through the full (legal) process after the most recent FIFA rule changes on transfers.

My source was mainly this thesis "Contractual Stability in the World of Football",  which is well sourced (PDF): http://law.au.dk/fileadmin/Jura/dokumenter/forskning/rettid/Afh_2017/afh1-2017.pdf

Thanks

So because of right to work, contracts are essentially worthless pieces of paper? It's absurd that it comes down to 'right to work' - they are free to WORK on the contract. They are REFUSING to work. Not being prohibited. If the owning club refused to play or train the player THAT is a refusal of right to work. EU courts and laws can be fucked.

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8697 on: August 18, 2017, 07:00:16 PM »
Nobody knows the answer to that, he wants to leave though. We can only deal with facts.

If he really wants to leave and never play for us again, then he would have handed it in if Chelsea had come in for him. I bet the transfer window will close/Barcelona end their interest (as I suspect might happen before the end of the month) and he'll get back on with being a Liverpool player.

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8698 on: August 18, 2017, 07:00:38 PM »
I'd love JW Henry to say publicly we've just said no to £82m paid over 5 years with maybe add ons off £36m

Wow 😮
Is that really how they pitched the details to us?
If so they are really are clowns 🤡🤡🤡😂🤣😅

Offline Bakez0151

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8699 on: August 18, 2017, 07:00:47 PM »
This. Pretty much none of this is happening without his consent. No idea why some are painting him out as some angel, he's hell bent on leaving and will do whatever it takes. Back Injury..transfer request, and going on strike e.t.c is the agent holding a gun to his head?  :o
Don't be so dramatic. 'Do whatever it takes'. Nah. He wants the move to happen but it's not gonna happen and there's nothing he can do to change that. Soon as the transfer window he'll accept that and no doubt be back in the team soon enough.

Offline Charles Foster Kane

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8700 on: August 18, 2017, 07:01:12 PM »
And the other factor is that Abramovich actually had the cash...

This was the 2011 statement:

“Fernando Torres tonight submitted a written transfer request, which has been rejected by Liverpool.
“Fernando is under a long-term contract and the Club expects him to honour the commitment he made to Liverpool FC and its supporters when he signed the agreement.”

This is the Club's statement re Khazinho:

"We wish to offer clarity as regards our position on a possible transfer of Philippe Coutinho," a statement from Fenway Sports Group (FSG) read.

"The club's definitive stance is that no offers for Philippe will be considered and he will remain a member of Liverpool Football Club when the summer window closes."

Completely different. 'Expects' is not the same as 'definitive... ...no offers will be considered and he will remain... ...when the summer window closes.

The Torres statement didn't say he wouldn't be sold.
However the club also tweeted: LFC insist Torres is not for sale.
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Offline So... Howard Phillips

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8701 on: August 18, 2017, 07:01:18 PM »
I can't believe that people are advocating for us to sell him. What the fuck is wrong with people?

They just like being contrary and they may even go on Twitter and be even more contrary.

That's what wrong with them - unless they are some sort of Barcelona bot army.

Offline redmark

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8702 on: August 18, 2017, 07:01:33 PM »
Thanks

So because of right to work, contracts are essentially worthless pieces of paper? It's absurd that it comes down to 'right to work' - they are free to WORK on the contract. They are REFUSING to work. Not being prohibited. If the owning club refused to play or train the player THAT is a refusal of right to work. EU courts and laws can be fucked.
You're not LFC's lawyer, are you? :)
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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8703 on: August 18, 2017, 07:02:20 PM »
But, but... I thought the rumours of him not wanting to play for the club are bullshit and not to be believed? How can this be true? How is it possible?

Coutinho's either leaving or won't be playing for this club anymore, at least for quite a while until he realizes he has no choice if we indeed do keep him. But it seems as if some are sucking their thumbs curled up in the fetal position and still in denial on this forum.

Offline GregCharrua

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8704 on: August 18, 2017, 07:03:02 PM »
You're not LFC's lawyer, are you? :)


Thank god no!  :P :P

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8705 on: August 18, 2017, 07:03:14 PM »
Then its funny that he hired, a year ago, an agent who specializes in getting players a move to Barcelona. Or is that just a coincidence?

And at this point, what does it matter what he said about LFC? His actions speak far louder than his words.

He isn't a hormonal adolescent. He wants to go to Barcelona, it's been a long term goal for him. Maybe he hires Koorabchian for that reason. The opportunity has come up earlier than expected because of Neymar and he's pushing for a move. To force it he says stuff...

That doesn't mean he suddenly hates the club, the players he clearly gets on with or the manager.
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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8706 on: August 18, 2017, 07:03:28 PM »
But, but... I thought the rumours of him not wanting to play for the club are bullshit and not to be believed? How can this be true? How is it possible?

What are you replying to there?

Quote
Coutinho's either leaving or won't be playing for this club anymore, at least for quite a while until he realizes he has no choice if we indeed do keep him. But it seems as if some are sucking their thumbs curled up in the fetal position and still in denial on this forum.

Or maybe we're not pissing our pants and being relentlessly negative?

Offline Bakez0151

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8707 on: August 18, 2017, 07:03:56 PM »
But, but... I thought the rumours of him not wanting to play for the club are bullshit and not to be believed? How can this be true? How is it possible?

Coutinho's either leaving or won't be playing for this club anymore, at least for quite a while until he realizes he has no choice if we indeed do keep him. But it seems as if some are sucking their thumbs curled up in the fetal position and still in denial on this forum.

Quite a while = until the transfer window shuts, so 13 days.

Offline liverpool185

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8708 on: August 18, 2017, 07:04:16 PM »
Who the hell is painting him as an angel in all this?...That's right...NOBODY!

Read this and understand where we are coming from.

Mate I completely understand where you are coming from, hell I even agree with him BUT I also agree to an extent with the other fans who want to fuck him off, this guy handed in a transfer request one day before the season started and has been giving his agent a free run to chat shit.

Surely you can understand mate that some fans don't want to see this sort of nonsense whether you think their right or not.

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8709 on: August 18, 2017, 07:04:52 PM »
Nobody knows the answer to that, he wants to leave though. We can only deal with facts.

He wants to play for Barcelona, doesn't mean he wants to leave no matter what. If Barca hadn't come in, I doubt he'd be looking at any other club.

Offline wige

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8710 on: August 18, 2017, 07:05:03 PM »
But, but... I thought the rumours of him not wanting to play for the club are bullshit and not to be believed? How can this be true? How is it possible?

Coutinho's either leaving or won't be playing for this club anymore, at least for quite a while until he realizes he has no choice if we indeed do keep him. But it seems as if some are sucking their thumbs curled up in the fetal position and still in denial on this forum.

Does this cover the 1st of September? Edit. Bakez in first.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 07:06:49 PM by wige »

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8711 on: August 18, 2017, 07:05:05 PM »
Quite a while = until the transfer window shuts, so 13 days.

Or sooner, if Barcelona officially end their interest before deadline day.

Offline glewis93

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8712 on: August 18, 2017, 07:05:20 PM »
But, but... I thought the rumours of him not wanting to play for the club are bullshit and not to be believed? How can this be true? How is it possible?

Coutinho's either leaving or won't be playing for this club anymore, at least for quite a while until he realizes he has no choice if we indeed do keep him. But it seems as if some are sucking their thumbs curled up in the fetal position and still in denial on this forum.

He will have to realise he has no choice but to play once the transfer window closes, or he's negatively impacting his own career. I don't see how that's "denial" on anyones part. That's just the logical conclusion to me should we maintain the 'not for sale' stance.
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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8713 on: August 18, 2017, 07:05:27 PM »
Looks increasingly like we are heading in to a new era in which Madrid and Barca can no longer bully other Clubs in to selling players. For me it was always a myth that players couldn't turn down the lure of the Spanish big two. It was always more about them being able to make eye watering offers for players that Clubs couldn't turn down.

Oh yeh and good on the Club and the owners for standing up to Barca and their shitty tactics.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline RK7

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8714 on: August 18, 2017, 07:05:38 PM »
Tough shitty he shouldn't have signed a contract with no release clause in it.


Completely agree but to think this won't have a long lasting affect would be naive.

Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8715 on: August 18, 2017, 07:05:39 PM »
But, but... I thought the rumours of him not wanting to play for the club are bullshit and not to be believed? How can this be true? How is it possible?


Who said that? I think pretty much everyone accepted that was his stance last week, but believed he'd have a change of heart once the window shut and he was still here.

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8716 on: August 18, 2017, 07:05:53 PM »
He wants to play for Barcelona, doesn't mean he wants to leave no matter what. If Barca hadn't come in, I doubt he'd be looking at any other club.

Nah, he handed in a transfer request, means he fucking hates this club and would rather play for Accrington Stanley, don't you know? ::)

Offline redmark

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8717 on: August 18, 2017, 07:07:21 PM »
Oh yeh and good on the Club and the owners for standing up to Barca and their shitty tactics.
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Offline JoeCole

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8718 on: August 18, 2017, 07:07:24 PM »
It's a good offer but I think we can definitely rinse them for more. If we are actually going to sign players before the end of this window and replace him then I'd be fine with letting him leave, as unlike our other star players that have left in recent years I have no sentiment for Coutinho.

Offline RK7

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Re: Miss Phylis Continue...he is no Loose Wires, no effigy €125m rejected
« Reply #8719 on: August 18, 2017, 07:08:11 PM »
He wants to play for Barcelona, doesn't mean he wants to leave no matter what. If Barca hadn't come in, I doubt he'd be looking at any other club.

Possibly not, we'll never know but he does want to swap the shirt of Liverpool for that of Barcelona. So much so that he's had to hand in a transfer request.