Author Topic: Accountancy thread...  (Read 56225 times)

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg right

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #640 on: August 13, 2019, 04:28:54 PM »
It's also about getting value for money from the squad.
Look at the shifts Robbo and Trent put in and the money they're on compared with the output and cost of Moreno, Mignolet, Sturridge, Lovren, Lallana. Then factor in how often they've been unavailable when they would have been used, or how some have not even been trusted. We're a big club that can support a big wage bill, but when we're getting 68 appearances (many as a sub) for about £25m in wages, it's not great value. Sturridge accounted for about 40% of those games too, in what was his first season without an injury in ages, so 41 appearances from 4 players for the thick end of £20m provides a good hint to why they're no longer here.

Offline Fromola

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #641 on: August 13, 2019, 04:41:08 PM »
For all of Edwards' and FSG's rightful acclaim, they also deserve serious scrutiny for letting the wage bill get out of control. We're now at a point where a few injuries would probably destroy our season, and this appears to be borne of desperation to get high-earners off the books at any cost.

This already happened once under their ownership and has now happened again. A third time would be unforgivable. In fairness to many posters on here, they called it when the likes of Mignolet, Lovren and Lallana were given overly long contracts on overly high wages after a few months of good form.

The consequence of the profligacy/muddled up thinking of the Rodgers years, we've been run a lot better since then.

Klopp has ended up upgrading in nearly every position on the pitch but has been left with a second XI on first team wages who aren't always giving us much value (a couple of whom he did give the contact bump to tbf). Some of whom we've sold previously (Joe Allen, Sakho, Benteke) but are now in the process of shifting the rest (Ings, Mignolet, Lovren, Moreno, Clyne, Sturridge 2014 contract post-injury). Lallana and Milner also may have to take much reduced money to stay on as well.

For me, where we've gone wrong as a result is our wage bill is high enough to have a strong squad of 20-22 with good cover in each position. Maybe not to the extent of City but more than we have. Spurs have got good cover in most posiitons now and their wage bill is far less than ours. Klopp has really got us out of a jam by getting so much out of the team he's built on such a meagre net spend.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 04:48:52 PM by Fromola »

Offline Craig 🤔

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #642 on: August 13, 2019, 04:51:33 PM »
For me, where we've gone wrong as a result is our wage bill is high enough to have a strong squad of 20-22 with good cover in each position. Maybe not to the extent of City but more than we have. Spurs have got good cover in most posiitons now and their wage bill is far less than ours. Klopp has really got us out of a jam by getting so much out of the team he's built on such a meagre net spend.

I'm not sure you could say our squad as a whole is not quite a lot stronger than Spurs' is, so that comparison doesn't really make sense imo. Plus we have a greater number of world class players who naturally demand some of the highest wages in football which bump our bill up (see Alisson, Van Dijk, Mane, Salah and Firmino).

Sure, we could have 2 or 3 better squad players on decent money, but then you'd likely have to see one of the big names being off the wage bill to compensate.

Offline Fromola

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #643 on: August 13, 2019, 05:05:41 PM »
I'm not sure you could say our squad as a whole is not quite a lot stronger than Spurs' is, so that comparison doesn't really make sense imo. Plus we have a greater number of world class players who naturally demand some of the highest wages in football which bump our bill up (see Alisson, Van Dijk, Mane, Salah and Firmino).

Sure, we could have 2 or 3 better squad players on decent money, but then you'd likely have to see one of the big names being off the wage bill to compensate.

Yeah that's fair enough. Our wage bill is probably near enough double what Spurs is though and they do look to have more in terms of depth than us now as we've sold off or let go a lot of our second XI, and are either going to rely on untested kids or rely on several players covering multiple positions.

It's important that you've at least got a strong bench every week because things can always go wrong in a game, or fresh legs are needed (Henderson and Milner at Southampton for example). You can't bring Milner on to shore up the midfield like in that game or CL final if he's having to cover at full back as an example.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 05:09:23 PM by Fromola »

Offline Craig 🤔

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #644 on: August 13, 2019, 05:18:43 PM »
Yeah that's fair enough. Our wage bill is probably near enough double what Spurs is though and they do look to have more in terms of depth than us now as we've sold off or let go a lot of our second XI, and are either going to rely on untested kids or rely on several players covering multiple positions.

It's important that you've at least got a strong bench every week because things can always go wrong in a game, or fresh legs are needed (Henderson and Milner at Southampton for example). You can't bring Milner on to shore up the midfield like in that game or CL final if he's having to cover at full back as an example.

Our bench at the weekend was Adrian, Milner, Keita, Mane, Ox, Matip & Shaq.

Theirs was Gazzaniga, Wanyama, Nkoudou, Dier, Eriksen, Aurier and Skipp.

You really look at their bench and think it's stronger than ours?

Offline Fromola

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #645 on: August 13, 2019, 05:21:11 PM »
Our bench at the weekend was Adrian, Milner, Keita, Mane, Ox, Matip & Shaq.

Theirs was Gazzaniga, Wanyama, Nkoudou, Dier, Eriksen, Aurier and Skipp.

You really look at their bench and think it's stronger than ours?

That's with everyone available for us though pretty much. They've got Son, Alli, Lo Celso, Sessengon, Davies to add to that

Offline Craig 🤔

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #646 on: August 13, 2019, 05:25:45 PM »
That's with everyone available for us though pretty much. They've got Son, Alli, Lo Celso, Sessengon, Davies to add to that

Yeah but they haven't got all that for that lower wage bill though - they've added a considerable amount this summer with more new deals likely on the horizon too.

Offline Fromola

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #647 on: August 13, 2019, 05:31:03 PM »
Yeah but they haven't got all that for that lower wage bill though - they've added a considerable amount this summer with more new deals likely on the horizon too.

Well, yeah, Spurs have invested this summer while we've cut back as there was a major wage disparity after what we spent last summer and then invested with new contracts. Thank god we beat them in the final or there'd be less understanding. Ultimately Spurs will probably lose Eriksen for free because they're not paying him anything like the going rate. We did what we needed to get the likes of Mane and Bobby tied down.

What I was originally saying was for the wage bill we have we should really have had a bit stronger depth and that's a reality of what Klopp inherited.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 05:33:48 PM by Fromola »

Offline Craig 🤔

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #648 on: August 13, 2019, 05:33:08 PM »
Well, yeah, Spurs have invested this summer while we've cut back as there was a major wage disparity after what we spent last summer and then invested with new contracts.

What I was originally saying was for the wage bill we have we should really have had a bit stronger depth and that's a reality of what Klopp inherited.

I more see it as a difference in squad building.

Klopp has a smaller squad of higher quality on higher wages. Spurs have a bigger squad of high quality but not as high as our own.

Seems we're looking to try and compete with City via a high quality core whilst Spurs are trying a different approach. Ours seemed to work last year.

Offline Classycara

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #649 on: August 13, 2019, 05:33:17 PM »
Yeah but they haven't got all that for that lower wage bill though - they've added a considerable amount this summer with more new deals likely on the horizon too.
Not to mention they’ve just got rid of their first choice right back and their back up striker to shave wages, like us, except Noreno wasn’t first choice), so I don’t don’t see what we have to be jealous of

Offline LiamG

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #650 on: August 13, 2019, 06:18:21 PM »
Where can i get a list of all our current player wages? Am i right in saying Salah is on the most?

Also the comparisons to spurs, Levy has played it very well over the years with wages, But of course it's risky too, Just look at the Eriksen situation

Offline Craig 🤔

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #651 on: August 13, 2019, 06:33:51 PM »
Where can i get a list of all our current player wages? Am i right in saying Salah is on the most?

Also the comparisons to spurs, Levy has played it very well over the years with wages, But of course it's risky too, Just look at the Eriksen situation

There isn't really an accurate list, just plenty of guessing. You can get the entire wage bill from the accounts (includes players, coaching, admin, etc.).

Offline Paulinjo

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #652 on: August 13, 2019, 08:53:35 PM »
Lack of any big signings this season is down to the fact that Klopp and the board are thinking in the long run and they acknowledged that we only need to sign world class players in order to put existing players under pression.
Therefore, mark my words, enter Mbappe next summer. 8)

Online BrandoLFC

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #653 on: August 13, 2019, 08:54:12 PM »
For all of Edwards' and FSG's rightful acclaim, they also deserve serious scrutiny for letting the wage bill get out of control. We're now at a point where a few injuries would probably destroy our season, and this appears to be borne of desperation to get high-earners off the books at any cost.

This already happened once under their ownership and has now happened again. A third time would be unforgivable. In fairness to many posters on here, they called it when the likes of Mignolet, Lovren and Lallana were given overly long contracts on overly high wages after a few months of good form.


Offline a treeless whopper

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #654 on: August 13, 2019, 09:42:52 PM »
For all of Edwards' and FSG's rightful acclaim, they also deserve serious scrutiny for letting the wage bill get out of control. We're now at a point where a few injuries would probably destroy our season, and this appears to be borne of desperation to get high-earners off the books at any cost.

This already happened once under their ownership and has now happened again. A third time would be unforgivable. In fairness to many posters on here, they called it when the likes of Mignolet, Lovren and Lallana were given overly long contracts on overly high wages after a few months of good form.

If anything all it does is prove that the approach that we have our main signings, regular and top players earning loads but back them up with younger players is correct. I dont think you will see us splash loads of money on those players who wont be regulars.

The likes of Lallana, Clyne, Mignolet, Lovren, Sturridge were all earning far too much for what they were producing.

Offline newterp

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #655 on: August 14, 2019, 01:33:52 AM »

Offline markmywords

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #656 on: August 14, 2019, 09:39:02 AM »
Lack of any big signings this season is down to the fact that Klopp and the board are thinking in the long run and they acknowledged that we only need to sign world class players in order to put existing players under pression.
Therefore, mark my words, enter Mbappe next summer. 8)

Nah

I'm coming in jan

Offline rebel23

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #657 on: August 14, 2019, 10:08:57 AM »
Lack of any big signings this season is down to the fact that Klopp and the board are thinking in the long run and they acknowledged that we only need to sign world class players in order to put existing players under pression.
Therefore, mark my words, enter Mbappe next summer. 8)

There could be something in Mbappe 2020, he said he wont renew his contact at PSG.

Offline Craig 🤔

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #658 on: August 14, 2019, 10:39:29 AM »
https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-premier-league/story/3915556/liverpool-cant-rely-on-salahmane-and-firmino-forever-which-one-could-they-sell-to-make-way-for-new-talent

This has sort of been discussed in the transfer thread - but it's the question several have raised.

“Liverpool have a problem to solve”

Errrr....no we don’t. You sell when they are declining, not when they are at their peak. They don’t need replacing nor do we need the money from their sale to plug holes elsewhere.

Offline newterp

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #659 on: August 14, 2019, 11:31:03 AM »
“Liverpool have a problem to solve”

Errrr....no we don’t. You sell when they are declining, not when they are at their peak. They don’t need replacing nor do we need the money from their sale to plug holes elsewhere.

Oh - I should say I disagree with the "problem to solve" line as well. That said we do want to start bringing in a player that we hope will be top attacker next season as well. But because of Edwards and the recruitment team - I feel like we already have identified multiple players for next summer.

Offline rebel23

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #660 on: August 14, 2019, 11:37:35 AM »
Oh - I should say I disagree with the "problem to solve" line as well. That said we do want to start bringing in a player that we hope will be top attacker next season as well. But because of Edwards and the recruitment team - I feel like we already have identified multiple players for next summer.

Apparently Edwards and the recruitment team work 2 transfer windows in advance.  I read it in the Echo.

Offline Fromola

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #661 on: August 14, 2019, 01:10:31 PM »
Apparently Edwards and the recruitment team work 2 transfer windows in advance.  I read it in the Echo.

To some degree they might. You can't operate like that altogether. A player might be worth 20 million one summer and 100 million the next after a good season. A player might be available and under the radar when identified and then two transfer windows later every top club in Europe want him.

Offline Classycara

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #662 on: August 14, 2019, 01:48:09 PM »
To some degree they might. You can't operate like that altogether. A player might be worth 20 million one summer and 100 million the next after a good season. A player might be available and under the radar when identified and then two transfer windows later every top club in Europe want him.

It doesn't mean not focusing on the contemporary window though..!

Offline Craig 🤔

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #663 on: August 14, 2019, 01:56:00 PM »
They almost certainly work at least 2 windows ahead in terms of scouting and sounding out deals. I’d not be surprised if we’ve put feelers out with agents for players we would like next summer.

Some we’ll miss out on if they have a breakout season and jump in value, others we may still go for anyway.

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #664 on: August 14, 2019, 03:06:21 PM »
They almost certainly work at least 2 windows ahead in terms of scouting and sounding out deals. I’d not be surprised if we’ve put feelers out with agents for players we would like next summer.

Some we’ll miss out on if they have a breakout season and jump in value, others we may still go for anyway.

Yep, the likes of Joao Felix who was playing for Benfica reserves team before last season and then went on to have a great first season with Benfica, and getting sold for €126m. He was probably someone known by top clubs scouts but who could have seen that rise come for example?
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Offline JackWard33

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #665 on: August 14, 2019, 11:15:22 PM »
Super cup win = another 4 million in the Mbappe pot

Offline newterp

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #666 on: August 15, 2019, 01:41:20 AM »
Super cup win = another 4 million in the Mbappe pot

maybe we can afford to keep Lovren

Offline rebel23

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #667 on: August 15, 2019, 01:53:04 AM »
Super cup win = another 4 million in the Mbappe pot

Yes! Mbabpe 2020 is on.  I imagine he watched the game and thought i'll have some of that.  :)

Offline Fromola

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #668 on: August 15, 2019, 06:05:07 PM »
Yep, the likes of Joao Felix who was playing for Benfica reserves team before last season and then went on to have a great first season with Benfica, and getting sold for €126m. He was probably someone known by top clubs scouts but who could have seen that rise come for example?

That's the point, though. You either get in there earlier - which clubs like Dortmund have been doing well - or you sit on your hands for a couple of years and hope his value doesn't skyrocket. A good way of padding your squad out is to sign a few gems when you're not having to pay daft money which is preferable to having a 4th choice centre back on 100k a week. We've done that well with Elliot and VDB now this summer, although 16 and 17 year olds is particularly young in terms of the first team.

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #669 on: August 15, 2019, 11:51:07 PM »
maybe we can afford to keep Lovren

Don't be daft.

#Mbappe2020 needs all the loose cash - get digging in the sofa lad
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Offline LiamG

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #670 on: August 16, 2019, 06:00:11 PM »
Yep, the likes of Joao Felix who was playing for Benfica reserves team before last season and then went on to have a great first season with Benfica, and getting sold for €126m. He was probably someone known by top clubs scouts but who could have seen that rise come for example?

a couple of "scouting" accounts i follow on twitter knew he was a star in the making before his break out season at Benfica


But maybe nobody went for him because of a release clause or something?

Offline newterp

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #671 on: August 16, 2019, 06:42:13 PM »
Don't be daft.

#Mbappe2020 needs all the loose cash - get digging in the sofa lad

The Lovren news is sobering. The dream is dead.

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #672 on: Yesterday at 01:14:51 PM »
The echo here. Saying Barca have had to pay out €155m of the maximum possible €160m for Coutinho..

Hah
:lmao
https://twitter.com/ptgorst/status/1162696176824664066?s=21


That’s £141m... :lmao
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Offline Craig 🤔

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #673 on: Yesterday at 01:18:00 PM »
I assume that's the amount due for making it to 100 games? Guess we could still get that if he ends up back there in 20/21.

Offline Agent99

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Re: Accountancy thread...
« Reply #674 on: Yesterday at 01:31:19 PM »
The echo here. Saying Barca have had to pay out €155m of the maximum possible €160m for Coutinho..

Hah
:lmao
https://twitter.com/ptgorst/status/1162696176824664066?s=21


That’s £141m... :lmao
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