Author Topic: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017  (Read 9949 times)

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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2017, 01:57:22 PM »
Firstly, I am aware that tactically players make an unmeasurable contribution in terms of movement to create space, and also in terms of the threats the pose influencing how much spare opposition players will be willing to give them. However, if you measure the importance of a player in terms of passes completed into, or touches in the box - who are Liverpool's most important players in the aforementioned game against Burnley and our first two league games this season?

vs Burnley (Aug 2016)
Player Name   Passes Into Box(P)Touches in the Box(T)P+T     Mins per P+T
Lallana     2  11   13        6
Coutinho   3   8   11        8
Grujic     1   0   1        12
Origi   0   2   2        12,5
Sturridge     1   4   5        13
Firmino     1   4   5        18
Henderson     2   0   2        45
To put the above into perspective, Liverpool completed 12 passes into the box in this game. 5 of which were by Coutinho & Lallana. 42% of the teams total. Henderson with 2, Clyne, Milner Firmino, Sturridge, Grujic with 1 apiece.
In terms of touches in the box, Liverpool had 34 touches this game, a whopping 19 of those were by Coutinho & Lallana combined. 55% or the teams total.

vs Watford (Aug 2017)
Player Name   Passes Into Box(P)Touches in the Box(T)P+T     Mins per P+T
Salah     0   8   8        11
Mane   1   5   6        15
Firmino     1   3   4        20
Wijnaldum     0   3   3        30
Matip     0   3   3        30
Henderson     2   0   2        45
TAA     1   1   2        45
To put the above into perspective, Liverpool completed 6 passes into the box in this game. Henderson with 2 makes up 33% of the teams total. Gini, Firmino, Mane & TAA with 1 apiece.
In terms of touches in the box, Liverpool had 25 touches this game, a whopping 13 of those were by Mane & Salah combined. 52% or the teams total.

vs Palace (Aug 2017)
Player Name   Passes Into Box(P)Touches in the Box(T)P+T     Mins per P+T
Solanke     0   4   4        5
Mane     2  11   13        7
Salah     1   3   4        7
Sturridge     1   4   5        12
Firmino     0   6   6        15
Robertson     2   3   5        18
To put the above into perspective, Liverpool completed 7 passes into the box in this game. 4 of which were by Robertson & Mane. 57% of the teams total. Milner, Sturridge, Salah with 1 apiece.
In terms of touches in the box, Liverpool had 39 touches this game, Mane 11, Firmino 6, Solanke & Sturridge 4, Salah Gini & Robertson 3, were the main contributors.
Gonna stay behind at work and wait to see what happens.

I am betting some split arse and crying.

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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2017, 02:02:06 PM »
Conclusions:-
- We really did miss Mane against Burnley last season
- Salah looks a great addition for against these teams
- A small sample size of 20 minutes, but Solanke looks a great plan B addition. Same as Grujic with 12 minutes.
- Robertson and TAA look a great partnership for these games if they can maintain their good starts
- Henderson is usually our most effective passer in midfield against these teams (although not against Palace)
- Lallana & Coutinho appear our two most effective players against these sides. Missing 1 is a problem. Missing both is a nightmare.
Gonna stay behind at work and wait to see what happens.

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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2017, 02:23:27 PM »
Liverpool players who featured in those games sorted by Minutes per Pass into the box. If player is not shown, they completed 0 passes into the box across these 3 selected games.

Player Name   Passes Into Box(P)     Mins per P
Grujic          1           12
Coutinho          3           30
Lallana          2           39
Robertson          2           45
Mane          3           60
Sturridge          2           63
Henderson          4           68
Milner          2           85,5
TAA          1           90
Clyne          1           90
Salah          1           115
Firmino          2           130
Gini          1           251

Our best 2 midfielders by some distance in terms of completing passes into tight spaces would appear to be Lallana & Coutinho, albeit within a very small sample. But this is certainly something I would continue to look at going forward. Within this context, Robertson's debut looks even more outstanding.

Liverpool players who featured in those games sorted by Minutes per Pass or Touch in the box. Note, Joe Gomez is the only player who scores 0 in terms of both P+T out of all players features which would agree with many peoples opinion he is unsuitable as an attacking full back for us - again, albeit a small sample size.

Player Name   Pass+Touch in the box     Mins per P+T
SOLANKE          4            5
LALLANA          13            6
COUTINHO          11            8
MANE          19            9
SALAH          12            10
GRUJIC          1            12
STURRIDGE          10            13
ORIGI          2            17
FIRMINO          15            17
ROBERTSON          5            18
MILNER          5            34
GINI          7            36
MATIP          5            36
CLYNE          2            45
HENDERSON          6            45
TAA          2            45
CAN          1            90
MORENO          1            103
KLAVAN          1            180
LOVREN          1            180

Once again, our two most effective players in these games comes out as Lallana & Coutinho. The business this summer of Salah, Solanke & Robertson - plus keeping Coutinho - seems excellent work by Klopp. Adding another midfielder - like Keita - with a similar skillset of Lallana & Coutinho would be excellent work. 
Gonna stay behind at work and wait to see what happens.

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Offline redmark

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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2017, 02:38:02 PM »
One of the things when approaching a low block is that there are no passing lanes through the center. They appear when you destabilise the shape and people adjust their positions - but that wasn't happening on Saturday. Nobody was taking on and beating a CM and having a CB step out. The other midfielders step across.

If you look at the pass maps for the Burnley & Palace games side by side there is very little difference, although you can see Coutinho popping up in that hole that was there Saturday as he is the player who is best suited to receiving and playing in very tight spaces such as these.


To be clear, I'm not talking at this stage about passing lanes through the centre of the opposition defence, but through the centre of the opposition half. And there, I think - as shown below - it's a little disingenuous to suppose there's "very little difference".



That's quite significant. Note from the Burnley game, there's a variety of players getting into that area and receiving and passing the ball - Wijnaldum amongst them.

Given that we lost to Burnley and beat Palace, we could argue that it didn't matter. We didn't need to penetrate the centre of the Palace midfield. But we didn't really appear to try; that I think is a little odd and I don't see it really having been 'the plan'. It's the area Firmino plays best in (offensively) and it's certainly the area you need to get the ball into to find the type of pass and movement Sturridge needs to feed on.

Getting a ball into the area behind a low block isn't impossible; it's difficult. But to do so with a player like Sturridge - or Firmino - it's more likely to come from this area then from deeper. Arguably it's easier - and it's what we reverted to - to get the ball in from wide; but if that's the plan, I don't think you start Sturridge (even low crosses; he tends to hang centrally or at the back post rather than attacking the near).

It's even an area that Mane thrives in. It's an area that if you're struggling to get past the last line of defence you can at least take a shot from (and perhaps get a worldy, a lucky deflection or a rebound to a player following up). But we didn't play in it. More to the point, we virtually never even attempted to pass into it - and in the first quarter that I re-watched last night, that wasn't because Palace weren't doing a particularly great job of defending it. Matip played into it for Sturridge early; Wijnaldum was frustrated again when Matip didn't; then Henderson tried (one of only a few times) and was inaccurate. But on each of those - and other moves - the passing lanes were there.



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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2017, 02:53:19 PM »
To be clear, I'm not talking at this stage about passing lanes through the centre of the opposition defence, but through the centre of the opposition half. And there, I think - as shown below - it's a little disingenuous to suppose there's "very little difference".



That's quite significant. Note from the Burnley game, there's a variety of players getting into that area and receiving and passing the ball - Wijnaldum amongst them.

Given that we lost to Burnley and beat Palace, we could argue that it didn't matter. We didn't need to penetrate the centre of the Palace midfield. But we didn't really appear to try; that I think is a little odd and I don't see it really having been 'the plan'. It's the area Firmino plays best in (offensively) and it's certainly the area you need to get the ball into to find the type of pass and movement Sturridge needs to feed on.

Getting a ball into the area behind a low block isn't impossible; it's difficult. But to do so with a player like Sturridge - or Firmino - it's more likely to come from this area then from deeper. Arguably it's easier - and it's what we reverted to - to get the ball in from wide; but if that's the plan, I don't think you start Sturridge (even low crosses; he tends to hang centrally or at the back post rather than attacking the near).

It's even an area that Mane thrives in. It's an area that if you're struggling to get past the last line of defence you can at least take a shot from (and perhaps get a worldy, a lucky deflection or a rebound to a player following up). But we didn't play in it. More to the point, we virtually never even attempted to pass into it - and in the first quarter that I re-watched last night, that wasn't because Palace weren't doing a particularly great job of defending it. Matip played into it for Sturridge early; Wijnaldum was frustrated again when Matip didn't; then Henderson tried (one of only a few times) and was inaccurate. But on each of those - and other moves - the passing lanes were there.

I think the point I am trying to make is that without players who operate best in tight space - like Lallana and Coutinho - you cannot try. If you look at the failed pass map against Palace there were plenty of passes attempted into those spaces, they were just intercepted. Reason being - IMO - some players can receive the ball in those spaces, others cannot.

Based on what I was looking at in terms of passes/touches in the box - it seems like Lallana & Coutinho thrive in those areas. As do similar built players like Salah & Mane (albeit their work is in wide areas, not central areas). Nobody else has the volume or touches or passes into the box as them.

Obviously we are talking a VERY small sample size and it's something we would need to monitor over the course of the season. But it is interesting to me that Lallana has more touches in the oppositions box against Burnley, then Gini, Henderson, Milner & Can have combined against Watford, Palace and Burnley. It lends credence to the idea that Lallana can receive and play in tight spaces, the others cannot. Therefore he aims to move into the block and destabilise it. Whereas Milner, Gini and Henderson will just play around it.
Gonna stay behind at work and wait to see what happens.

I am betting some split arse and crying.

Offline redmark

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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2017, 03:19:06 PM »
I think the point I am trying to make is that without players who operate best in tight space - like Lallana and Coutinho - you cannot try. If you look at the failed pass map against Palace there were plenty of passes attempted into those spaces, they were just intercepted. Reason being - IMO - some players can receive the ball in those spaces, others cannot.

Based on what I was looking at in terms of passes/touches in the box - it seems like Lallana & Coutinho thrive in those areas. As do similar built players like Salah & Mane (albeit their work is in wide areas, not central areas). Nobody else has the volume or touches or passes into the box as them.

Obviously we are talking a VERY small sample size and it's something we would need to monitor over the course of the season. But it is interesting to me that Lallana has more touches in the oppositions box against Burnley, then Gini, Henderson, Milner & Can have combined against Watford, Palace and Burnley. It lends credence to the idea that Lallana can receive and play in tight spaces, the others cannot. Therefore he aims to move into the block and destabilise it. Whereas Milner, Gini and Henderson will just play around it.

I absolutely agree on the Coutinho/Lallana point - that was sort of my starting point, is Wijnaldum impacted particularly by their absence?

But Mane was playing, and Firmino and Sturridge can receive the ball in tight areas. And yet still...



Unsuccessful passes, by the three midfielders. Only a handful in and around that area, and only two (both Henderson) that were particularly vertical and from around the halfway line (one I recognise from my description of the first quarter I posted last night). As you can see, there were significantly more attempts over the top and into the area - an even more unlikely success, against that deep a defensive line. There were a few more by defenders, particularly Gomez and Matip, but some of those are clearances (as are a couple of Hendersons) or deep crosses.

I don't think we're disagreeing massively, other than I think I'm swaying more towards a lack of conviction/execution rather than your intent/prospect of success. Coutinho and Lallana are definitely a miss; but perhaps Henderson/Milner showed a disproportionate disinclination to pass to the players that were there - Firmino, Sturridge, Mane, Wijnaldum - in their absence.

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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2017, 03:40:54 PM »
I absolutely agree on the Coutinho/Lallana point - that was sort of my starting point, is Wijnaldum impacted particularly by their absence?

But Mane was playing, and Firmino and Sturridge can receive the ball in tight areas. And yet still...



Unsuccessful passes, by the three midfielders. Only a handful in and around that area, and only two (both Henderson) that were particularly vertical and from around the halfway line (one I recognise from my description of the first quarter I posted last night). As you can see, there were significantly more attempts over the top and into the area - an even more unlikely success, against that deep a defensive line. There were a few more by defenders, particularly Gomez and Matip, but some of those are clearances (as are a couple of Hendersons) or deep crosses.

I don't think we're disagreeing massively, other than I think I'm swaying more towards a lack of conviction/execution rather than your intent/prospect of success. Coutinho and Lallana are definitely a miss; but perhaps Henderson/Milner showed a disproportionate disinclination to pass to the players that were there - Firmino, Sturridge, Mane, Wijnaldum - in their absence.

My thinking on this would be that between Firmino & Sturridge - Henderson, Milner & Gini there would be a zone to play through. Normally Lallana & Coutinho would operate in receiving the ball in that zone and moving it on. Without them able to do that, we have to effectively pass the ball through that zone completely which becomes much harder to succeed at doing.

So instead of passing the ball 5-10 yards to Coutinho/Lallana in a tight space, who then feed the forward players 5-10 yards ahead of them - the players trying to do the Lallana/Coutinho job are unable to receive it in those same areas (Gini?). Therefore we are needing to skip that step and go from Henderson into the forwards  - which means passing greater distances through more bodies which reduces success.

I'm hoping to get some data to illustrate this better, but is you use touches in the box as a rough measure of a players ability to play between the lines - Lallana takes a touch in the box every 7 minutes, Coutinho 11 minutes, Gini 41 minutes, Milner 57 minutes, Can 90 minutes and Henderson 135 minutes.

Therefore none of them seem capable of playing between the midfield & defence in the block and cannot step into it and do so successfully. Firmino & Sturridge could drop deeper instead but when they do so, who do they feed in front of them. Also can they? Lallana & Coutinho are not only our best at touches in the box but also passes into the box. Which indicates to me they are the best are both receiving in a block and passing into a block. Firmino & Sturridge are effective at receiving, but not passing. Therefore instead of receiving the ball closer to the goal from Coutinho & Lallana, they would need to step out to get the ball, but cannot feed the ball forward themselves and are now in poorer shooting locations.

Salah & Mane have some success doing both things, however their work all pops up in wider locations. Maybe the solution is to try one of them centrally as a link man? Instinctively I would suggest Salah who I have seen succeed in central areas whereas Mane struggled to impact games starting centrally compared to starting wide.

I don't really have the data to support any of that (yet). But instinctively, I would believe that to be true. I just need to find a way to support or disprove that somehow.
Gonna stay behind at work and wait to see what happens.

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Offline redmark

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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2017, 03:46:02 PM »
So the combined output of the RT is (as posted in many one-liners over the past month), we're fucked without Coutinho and Lallana. :)
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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2017, 04:06:54 PM »
So the combined output of the RT is (as posted in many one-liners over the past month), we're fucked without Coutinho and Lallana. :)

Maybe. I would say we cannot play through the middle of a low block without them. Maybe Salah can do that job - it would be worth trying in a game when nothing else is working (e.g. 4-D-2 with Salah playing behind Firmino & Sturridge/Solanke).

But most sides don't play through a low block. Real Madrid, for example, struggle to break down Atletico's compacy shape because both Bale & Ronaldo thrive with space to attack more than receiving and playing through tight spaces themselves. Isco is clearly the player who will help them here who is probably the poster boy right now for players operating in tight spaces. Real tended to have more success against Atletico by going around rather than through them. With better full backs at attacking the block side on in Robertson & TAA as well as another wide player in the mould of Mane - plus a target man in Solanke who is good receiving in tight spaces and a fit Grujic who may also succeed against these sides, we may have the players in our arsenal to still succeed against these sides without Lallana & Coutinho, albeit in a different way tactically that avoids trying to go through the front door.

Whereas Barca never really had that problem against Atletico as their forward line of Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Iniesta - all thrive in those tight spaces.

I was looking through some old statsbomb articles about this and noticed some interesting names popping up in terms of players who would fit the bill. Salah featured very highly on the list. Gerrard did in terms of passes into the box, but not so much in terms of touches. As did Ozil, Pirlo, Lemar, Geis. However the names that stood out excelling in both were Robben, Messi, Silva, Ribery, Hazard. There were also a few other names too who stood out that we were linked with:-

Salah, Tadic, Reus, Kampl, Candreva, Gotze.

Tadic was the one that surprised me. We were linked and I think most dismissed it as nonsense and yet suddenly this gives it some context. A player who is already adjusted to this league who could come in and give us a Coutinho/Lallana-lite performance in these games.

Unfortunately the data is old so I cannot look at the likes of Lanzini, Seri, Keita, etc. I suspect they all fit the bill from watching them though.
Gonna stay behind at work and wait to see what happens.

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Offline na fir dearg

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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2017, 07:14:13 PM »

It was very interesting how little threat Palace posed to us really. Their two best chances (Puncheon & Benteke) were also very easily preventable also. They didn't really create anything with possession. They struggled to break through us anywhere on the pitch and the few successes they had were bad mistakes on our part more than anything else.

Isn't this just characteristic of this Liverpool team though? Last season we would dominate possession against these sorts of teams and they would invariably score by hitting us on the break or from a setpiece
Or by one of our defensive players making a mistake leading to a goal - im sure there were plenty of games against teams like this where we conceded 2 shots on goal and they scored 2 goals, Bournemouth at Anfield springs to mind

On another day that Benteke chance goes in and we're 1-0 down struggling to get 2

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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2017, 08:58:45 PM »
Great - you've made me watch the first half again... :)
Watched the rest of the first half; taken the same detail of notes, but not going to post again (as we recall, it's not very exciting).

Wijnaldum spends two noticeable spells (23-28 minutes, 39-46 minutes) as the left sided midfielder. For the 39-46, Milner actually goes central and Henderson to the right. That spell is the clearest indicator of what the heat maps show more consistently - in possession, Henderson and Milner generally operate as a two while Wijnaldum wanders (somewhat aimlessly at times, my notes record, but not always) ahead of them. Also possibly of minor interest, it 'seems' to be Milner who initiates all of the 'switches' between the midfield three (whether there are signals from the bench, I can't say; but of the players, it's Milner who seems to make the move and the other two adjust).

There's one interesting observation on shape in this last spell - whenever Milner and Wijnaldum are the wider midfielders and the ball is on the opposite flank, they narrow, i.e. occupy the central area 10-15 yards inside Palace's half. There's one very clear example a bit after 42 minutes where the ball is on the left, Robertson/Wijnaldum can't progress down the flank and Wijnaldum turns inside - and there's an enormous hole in the centre, as Henderson has held his position right of centre and on the halfway line, not adjusting to the play.

In that last spell, a couple of 'actions' from Wijnaldum of interest that don't record on the stats and a couple that do. On Firmino's driven shot that Palace counter on resulting in a shot by Puncheon, Wijnaldum from just outside the Palace area (and Firmino) chases the counter all the way back but is never close enough to affect the run of play. Twice in the closing 5/6 minutes, Wijnaldum gives to Robertson, runs down the left as Robertson cuts inside, eventual return pass is delayed a little too long. Robertson seems to combine more 'instinctively' with Milner. Firmino/Gomez break down the right ends with a poor low cross toward the six yard box; Wijnaldum free on the edge of the area calling/gesturing for the square ball. The last action is a bit unlucky; Mane cuts inside from the left, Wijnaldum anticipates the pass, checks over his shoulder and turns into space on receiving it, but the ball sticks under his feet and he has to turn and retreat.

Not the most exciting hour or so re-watching, rewinding and noting that quarter of a game :).

The shape stuff was the most notable; if the ball was being passed around at the back, Wijnaldum generally took the AM role (Milner occasionally), regardless of which side they were playing. But, apart from Matip a couple of times, and the odd ball inside from either full back or wide player, neither received a pass in that area from Henderson. I don't think I even mention Klavan in my notes :).

The other point that stood out after watching the second quarter - and I'd noted it a couple of times from the first - is that Firmino was the player who had the most opportunities to play quick give-and-go's when cutting inside with the ball in the attacking midfield area, but spurned the opportunity every time, preferring to play the ball back (Henderson) or wide (Gomez). While that doesn't show that Firmino "can't play wide" or deeper (rather than as the false 9 he generally does), it does suggest he doesn't offer the same type of linkup play as Coutinho or Lallana in those areas, or only does so with one of those two. His interactions with Mane/Salah so far this season have generally been more the final through ball for one of those two, not one-twos. If he made a pass to Wijnaldum at all (and I'm not sure he did, without re-watching certain passages), it was during simple exchanges on the left, while passing up more intricate opportunities in the centre and one on the right, when they were both over that side around 36-39 minutes.


« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 09:01:05 PM by redmark »
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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2017, 02:44:42 PM »
The Central Winger

Intrigued by what you were describing so I decided to go back and read something about this. Apparently in German football this is a thing. The idea being that against a compact block centrally, instead you deploy your creative central player as a central winger. Instead of playing through that block he will drift to one side or the other to create a 3v2 overload with the full back and forward on one side of the pitch. One midfield would then sit in as a six behind play protecting a counter down that flank. The other would remain centrally for clearances to recycle the ball.

Does that better describe what you saw on your rewatch of our midfield at the weekend?

This would make sense also. We don't really have that midfielder who can play between the lines in Coutinho & Lallana's absence. However in Gini & Milner we have two players who know how to use combination play to open sides up from wide positions. This would allow us to completely dominate a flank and expose teams this way who are overly focused on protecting themselves to attacks through the middle.
Gonna stay behind at work and wait to see what happens.

I am betting some split arse and crying.

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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #52 on: September 4, 2017, 11:46:49 PM »
Hi. I would appreciate it if anybody who has the programme for this game and would like to sell it me get in touch via PM.

I even promise to let you know why I want it if you are at all interested  :wave
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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #53 on: September 5, 2017, 07:29:50 AM »
Ive always thought the 'flat track bullies', Arsenal are the team to learn from here. I assume they regularly face deep lying defence. What's their solution? Presumably in AOC we've bought sone if it. Alexis seems to be the name that pops up most, does he play a central winger role?
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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #54 on: September 5, 2017, 02:07:30 PM »
Ive always thought the 'flat track bullies', Arsenal are the team to learn from here. I assume they regularly face deep lying defence. What's their solution? Presumably in AOC we've bought sone if it. Alexis seems to be the name that pops up most, does he play a central winger role?

I'm writing something about this right now actually. Taking a while as on top of actual work, I am going through clips of games to find examples of things to turn into gifs for the article.

In short though - small, agile, technical players are key. Players who can both play into and out of tight spaces. Man City are the benchmark in this last season. The trio of Xavi-Iniesta-Messi made Barca the masters of this.
Gonna stay behind at work and wait to see what happens.

I am betting some split arse and crying.

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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #55 on: September 5, 2017, 07:54:23 PM »
I'm writing something about this right now actually. Taking a while as on top of actual work, I am going through clips of games to find examples of things to turn into gifs for the article.

In short though - small, agile, technical players are key. Players who can both play into and out of tight spaces. Man City are the benchmark in this last season. The trio of Xavi-Iniesta-Messi made Barca the masters of this.
You should do this analysis for a living :)
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #56 on: September 5, 2017, 09:08:51 PM »
You should do this analysis for a living :)
Cheers mate

Problem is I do this to procrastinate from work. Maybe if that was work then I would have to find something else to do to procrastinate instead :P
Gonna stay behind at work and wait to see what happens.

I am betting some split arse and crying.

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Re: Roundtable: Liverpool vs. Palace 19 August 2017
« Reply #57 on: September 5, 2017, 09:10:55 PM »
Firstly, I am aware that tactically players make an unmeasurable contribution in terms of movement to create space, and also in terms of the threats the pose influencing how much spare opposition players will be willing to give them. However, if you measure the importance of a player in terms of passes completed into, or touches in the box - who are Liverpool's most important players in the aforementioned game against Burnley and our first two league games this season?

vs Burnley (Aug 2016)
Player Name   Passes Into Box(P)Touches in the Box(T)P+T     Mins per P+T
Lallana     2  11   13        6
Coutinho   3   8   11        8
Grujic     1   0   1        12
Origi   0   2   2        12,5
Sturridge     1   4   5        13
Firmino     1   4   5        18
Henderson     2   0   2        45
To put the above into perspective, Liverpool completed 12 passes into the box in this game. 5 of which were by Coutinho & Lallana. 42% of the teams total. Henderson with 2, Clyne, Milner Firmino, Sturridge, Grujic with 1 apiece.
In terms of touches in the box, Liverpool had 34 touches this game, a whopping 19 of those were by Coutinho & Lallana combined. 55% or the teams total.

vs Watford (Aug 2017)
Player Name   Passes Into Box(P)Touches in the Box(T)P+T     Mins per P+T
Salah     0   8   8        11
Mane   1   5   6        15
Firmino     1   3   4        20
Wijnaldum     0   3   3        30
Matip     0   3   3        30
Henderson     2   0   2        45
TAA     1   1   2        45
To put the above into perspective, Liverpool completed 6 passes into the box in this game. Henderson with 2 makes up 33% of the teams total. Gini, Firmino, Mane & TAA with 1 apiece.
In terms of touches in the box, Liverpool had 25 touches this game, a whopping 13 of those were by Mane & Salah combined. 52% or the teams total.

vs Palace (Aug 2017)
Player Name   Passes Into Box(P)Touches in the Box(T)P+T     Mins per P+T
Solanke     0   4   4        5
Mane     2  11   13        7
Salah     1   3   4        7
Sturridge     1   4   5        12
Firmino     0   6   6        15
Robertson     2   3   5        18
To put the above into perspective, Liverpool completed 7 passes into the box in this game. 4 of which were by Robertson & Mane. 57% of the teams total. Milner, Sturridge, Salah with 1 apiece.
In terms of touches in the box, Liverpool had 39 touches this game, Mane 11, Firmino 6, Solanke & Sturridge 4, Salah Gini & Robertson 3, were the main contributors.

I'm going to update this table in the coming week also and try to keep it up to date all season. I'll try to find various ways at breaking it up. (e.g. league games, european games, games when we games we are losing, tieing or only 1 goal ahead, etc)
Gonna stay behind at work and wait to see what happens.

I am betting some split arse and crying.