Author Topic: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Chelsea 1  (Read 8053 times)

Online Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,508
  • Is it getting better?
Round Table: Liverpool 1 Chelsea 1
« on: February 1, 2017, 11:48:31 AM »
And normal service has resumed, folks. After meek home capitulations against such welterweights as Wolves and Swansea, not to mention our feeder club, Southampton, we raise our game, per usual, for real contenders, the kleptocrat funded fuckers from Fulham (you read that right, they're in Fulham). Cue headlines all over the land containing the words "stop" and "rot".

So our last victory was against an equally loaded outfit, meaning we have a worryingly schizophrenic record in this league. We can go toe to toe with the big hitters and spenders while struggling against the also rans. I think that's the opposite of a flat track bully.

Let's start with Mr Mignolet. I don't think he was at fault for the goal, in fact I'm not sure anyone was. Our keeper may have been nowhere near set when Sideshow Bob (sporting a rain made Jericurl) decided to have a little pop but then nobody was, not even Willian who seemed bemused when his compatriot trotted up to the ball and smacked it. Only he will know for sure but my guess is that the only person on the pitch who knew what was about to happen was the permed one himself, and fair play to him because it was a stunningly insouciant take, the sort of off the cuff thing you see in five a side games, only then usually followed by a miss and a bollocking. You have to give credit to Luiz, he plays the game like that, with a devil may care attitude which does not inspire confidence in his defensive qualities but certainly entertains.

Then Mignolet guesses right, literally, to save Costa's penalty and Matip's blushes. One does not simply wave a leg at Costa in the box. That's like bending over in front of Donald Drumpf. In between, we had the same patient, focused approach play we had all night but this time with an end product earned by Henderson's astute cross, Milner's studied competence and Gini's gamble.

Did we deserve more? I don't think so. We may have had more of the ball but the visitors looked more dangerous, with Moses frequently in worrying amounts of space, one of the drawbacks of playing  a midfield three against a midfield five. As against that, Chelsea looked comfortable enough in defence with Courtois rarely troubled, even pulling off a dive for the cameras as Wijnaldum pinged one almost straight at him. Firmino had a few opportunities but fluffed them, perhaps blinded by his own teeth. Fabregas came on and caused no end of problems.

Home draws often feel like losses but not so much when you're on a stinky run and playing the table toppers. We did well to get out of that with a point, when you consider the opposition and even more so when you consider the alternative, gleeful back pages about ninety year records and such. Chelsea are a very impressive outfit right now, no shame in dropping a point to the team everyone hoped we'd beat. And so the two follically augmented managers share the spoils, we end our horrid home run and continue to breathe heavily on the necks of Arsenal and Spurs. Mané is back, Matip has had his version of a shocker and Mignolet gets us out of jail. We'll take it.


Online Crosby Nick

  • is a cushy number for the Plod who work in this largely crime free suburb. Ate two, Brucey. Thread locker extraordinaire. Might answer to Nick CRoxy. Imaginary cock prognosticator. Has experience of being a bit of a twat. Well drilled at the back though..
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 60,433
  • Poultry in Motion
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Chelsea 1
« Reply #1 on: February 1, 2017, 12:00:30 PM »
Thanks Corky.

I agree with your sentiments. Home draws are generally frustrating and obviously before the game we were in need of a win to keep faint hopes alive. However, a draw always feels more palatable when you're the ones who have come back to equalise. To then save a penalty as well adds to the general feeling of "well that could have been worse".

A draw was probably fair, I think if anyone shaded it then it was us and those Firmino chances were both very takeable but they did threaten too and they came on strong at the end. They were delighted with the point which in itself shows how tough we were to play against. I know it's been mentioned repeatedly in the post game thread but Hazard and Costa are so hard to play against when they go looking for contact. Makes it difficult to stop them. Overall I thought we acquitted ourselves well against what seems to be the Champions elect. Some players are not at their best and others looked knackered but we dug in and fought well.

I wasn't the least bit surprised with how well we fought. Klopp's records in these big games is very good indeed (one defeat in 15 home and away against the other 'big 6' in the League since he arrived). The big test now is how we push on. We're back to one game a week. We've almost got a full strength squad to choose from again. Hopefully out of form/fitness players will start to improve. We need to regroup for the battle ahead. If Chelsea slip up, great but in reality we have a 5 way fight for 3 other slots and we need to be on it from Saturday onwards. Hull away is one of those fixtures we know all to well, a win there would help calm some nerves and help us push on for the final phase of the season. Not where we wanted to be this time last month, but still an opportunity to have a very decent season.
Fucking thick, inbred, bandy-legged, Kev Webster lookalike bellends.

Offline 007.lankyguy

  • Subject of a restraining order by a regular member of the HIGNFY crew. Hasn't got a clue when Liverpool play next. Fully stopped.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,657
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Chelsea 1
« Reply #2 on: February 1, 2017, 11:22:28 PM »
A comment on our goal: over the last month we've often fall into the pattern of over-thinking our play, something that can happen when you're short on confidence and rhythm. I also think that can at times be a symptom of mental fatigue, where you realise things aren't happening by instinct and quick assessment like they were previously and so you try and respond by thinking harder on your options, leading to less movement, more touches and a slower tempo. It also makes you more predictable as by the time you've made a pass or made a run into space, the opponent has already read it.

The goal was a noticeable breakaway from that. First the line breaking pass from Matip, which is crucial in leading to the initial shot for Lallana and thereby the goal. Secondly, the first time pass from Henderson. When he's in that deeper role, he often lacks the vision and thought process to know how to run a game e.g. when to play a lateral pass, when to play a vertical one, when to entice someone towards him, when to make a pass 'against the grain' (when the opposition is shifting to one side switching it back to the opposite side) and at times our play suffers from him playing too laterally, especially given Wijnaldum and Can aren't very good at creating space inside a deep block. However, his first time pass on the goal is a great example of his ability when his time to think is limited. It's a piece of instinctive understanding - everyone is moving towards the ball, so there must be space elsewhere. When Henderson's got time to think, he frequently misses where the space to attack is. When he's moving forward onto the ball and has a maximum or one or two touches, his passing is frequently more effective.

Thirdly, the blind side run from Milner. A lot of our movement recently (this game was no exception) has been very easy to read. That partly comes from the movement itself and also comes from predictable passing - for example, if you get the ball wide and clearly shape up to cross it, it's a much easier marking job than it would be if the opposition aren't sure if there's going to be a cut back or a direct take-on. Here though the combination of the first time ball as Chelsea are pushing out and the run from Milner in behind Moses earns us our luck in the box.

Ignoring the rest of the game for a second, if we can get back to utilising our instincts we'll have a much better chance of finishing top four and higher by the end of the season. It's probably our best hope.
« Last Edit: February 1, 2017, 11:24:54 PM by 007.lankyguy »
"Mind you, I've been here during the bad times too - one year we came second." Sir Bob

Online Weytske

  • Anny Roader
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
  • Peerless
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Chelsea 1
« Reply #3 on: February 3, 2017, 09:08:17 AM »
A comment on our goal: over the last month we've often fall into the pattern of over-thinking our play, something that can happen when you're short on confidence and rhythm. I also think that can at times be a symptom of mental fatigue, where you realise things aren't happening by instinct and quick assessment like they were previously and so you try and respond by thinking harder on your options, leading to less movement, more touches and a slower tempo. It also makes you more predictable as by the time you've made a pass or made a run into space, the opponent has already read it.
More than mental fatigue I would say it was the absence of different players breaking our rhythm. There was really no routine to fall back to because of the constant shifting and playing players out of position what made it difficult to remain fluent. Specially more creative play(mak)ers like Lallana and Coutinho aren't easily replaced.

The game for me first of all showed how important Firmino currently is as a central striker. Even when he's not playing well when on the ball, he remains important off the ball with his pressing and more important his movement and decision making. He constantly creates space for other players to benefit from, with a great timing when dropping deep or making a forward run in behind.

Other than that Henderson stood out for me. As you say his passing is more effective when he has less time on the ball but I also thought he was genuily trying to just move the ball fast, what improved his overall play. I wonder if he can take his level up another notch in the final 13 games, spurring our team to a strong finish of the season and building a strong foundation for next season.

Offline Klippity

  • Kemlynite
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Chelsea 1
« Reply #4 on: February 3, 2017, 11:58:09 AM »
And normal service has resumed, folks. After meek home capitulations against such welterweights as Wolves and Swansea, not to mention our feeder club, Southampton, we raise our game, per usual, for real contenders, the kleptocrat funded fuckers from Fulham (you read that right, they're in Fulham). Cue headlines all over the land containing the words "stop" and "rot".

So our last victory was against an equally loaded outfit, meaning we have a worryingly schizophrenic record in this league. We can go toe to toe with the big hitters and spenders while struggling against the also rans. I think that's the opposite of a flat track bully.

Let's start with Mr Mignolet. I don't think he was at fault for the goal, in fact I'm not sure anyone was. Our keeper may have been nowhere near set when Sideshow Bob (sporting a rain made Jericurl) decided to have a little pop but then nobody was, not even Willian who seemed bemused when his compatriot trotted up to the ball and smacked it. Only he will know for sure but my guess is that the only person on the pitch who knew what was about to happen was the permed one himself, and fair play to him because it was a stunningly insouciant take, the sort of off the cuff thing you see in five a side games, only then usually followed by a miss and a bollocking. You have to give credit to Luiz, he plays the game like that, with a devil may care attitude which does not inspire confidence in his defensive qualities but certainly entertains.

Then Mignolet guesses right, literally, to save Costa's penalty and Matip's blushes. One does not simply wave a leg at Costa in the box. That's like bending over in front of Donald Drumpf. In between, we had the same patient, focused approach play we had all night but this time with an end product earned by Henderson's astute cross, Milner's studied competence and Gini's gamble.

Did we deserve more? I don't think so. We may have had more of the ball but the visitors looked more dangerous, with Moses frequently in worrying amounts of space, one of the drawbacks of playing  a midfield three against a midfield five. As against that, Chelsea looked comfortable enough in defence with Courtois rarely troubled, even pulling off a dive for the cameras as Wijnaldum pinged one almost straight at him. Firmino had a few opportunities but fluffed them, perhaps blinded by his own teeth. Fabregas came on and caused no end of problems.

Home draws often feel like losses but not so much when you're on a stinky run and playing the table toppers. We did well to get out of that with a point, when you consider the opposition and even more so when you consider the alternative, gleeful back pages about ninety year records and such. Chelsea are a very impressive outfit right now, no shame in dropping a point to the team everyone hoped we'd beat. And so the two follically augmented managers share the spoils, we end our horrid home run and continue to breathe heavily on the necks of Arsenal and Spurs. Mané is back, Matip has had his version of a shocker and Mignolet gets us out of jail. We'll take it.
they may have looked dangerous but there were big chances for Liverpool to win it as well.  Growing confidence will put games like this to bed and sure it will start soon

Offline kavah

  • the Blacksmith
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,471
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Chelsea 1
« Reply #5 on: February 3, 2017, 04:51:41 PM »
More than mental fatigue I would say it was the absence of different players breaking our rhythm. There was really no routine to fall back to because of the constant shifting and playing players out of position what made it difficult to remain fluent. Specially more creative play(mak)ers like Lallana and Coutinho aren't easily replaced.

The game for me first of all showed how important Firmino currently is as a central striker. Even when he's not playing well when on the ball, he remains important off the ball with his pressing and more important his movement and decision making. He constantly creates space for other players to benefit from, with a great timing when dropping deep or making a forward run in behind.

Other than that Henderson stood out for me. As you say his passing is more effective when he has less time on the ball but I also thought he was genuily trying to just move the ball fast, what improved his overall play. I wonder if he can take his level up another notch in the final 13 games, spurring our team to a strong finish of the season and building a strong foundation for next season.

Yes, in a nutshell, that explains our post-international-break woefulness. Filler mentioned it in his Wolves pre-match.

It's intesting isn't it. When we're good we're fucking boss - but when we're not - well
The results then can obviously go either way. What's the answer? Over the long-term more quality and over the short term - well fuck - we have another international break next month ...

Thanks for the OP corky - nice one. And I agree, the free kick was sublime.

Offline didi

  • A complete Klopp out
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,233
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Chelsea 1
« Reply #6 on: February 3, 2017, 05:02:11 PM »
is it our record against the better sides is so much better then say the lesser sides a sign Klopp still isint fully aware of this league as yet. Will be interesting to see in the summer how his transfers pan out.  Every good side is based on a strong spine. Chelsea have an excellent keeper, Cahill/luiz, Kante and Costa,  and more than a match in their remaining best 11 and bench. I feel to be successful he needs to tweak his ideas abit, add more steel to the spine

Online Tepid D₂O

  • Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of conviction
  • Matchday Commentator
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,287
  • Liberal, and proud to be so.
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Chelsea 1
« Reply #7 on: February 3, 2017, 06:54:02 PM »
I thought Can played well, he does seem to play better as the game becomes more important.  His physicality was particularly important, he challenged for a lot of balls in the air.
Gini was also better. His strength at shielding the ball is a joy to behold, his thighs (nothing else) remind me of John Barnes for some reason.

When we played at our best, we played some lovely balls down the side to Milner, this didn't work as well on Clyne's side, but he was coming back from an injury and had more defensive duties to consider.  We also played some nicer crosses in.  Get to the byline and cut it back..  too many high balls recently and the cut back has worked so well this season... now it didn't work in this game, but there will be games when it breaks much more favourably.

At the back the partnerships were a bit rusty.  Matip has been out for quite some time, and even at centre back you need to get up to speed.  Coutinho too is being managed carefully... he's not been overplayed, let's hope this bodes well for his recovery, but it also makes me wonder if he is still suffering quite a bit from his ankle...

More positives than negatives though, we now just need to perform against the 'lesser' teams.  Bang in a few against Hull and things will feel quite different.. struggle against Hull and it might seem a long second half of the season.
With courage, nothing is impossible.

"My right arm hurts - I don't know why or who hit me."

Offline jambutty

  • The Gok Wan of RAWK. Tripespotting Advocate. Oakley style guru. Hardman St. arl arse "Ridiculously cool" -TAW-
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,471
  • Justice for Neda
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Chelsea 1
« Reply #8 on: February 3, 2017, 09:13:01 PM »
Time to introduce you to my new Theory of Rafativity.

Every year, when we're not swinging our balls around in Europe, we stink it up for a month while the CL is on break.

We're in for a superb second half of the season. Wait and see.


Entitlement: the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

Offline kavah

  • the Blacksmith
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,471
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Chelsea 1
« Reply #9 on: February 3, 2017, 10:51:38 PM »
is it our record against the better sides is so much better then say the lesser sides a sign Klopp still isint fully aware of this league as yet. Will be interesting to see in the summer how his transfers pan out. ...

The Analysis on TAW Review show is superb, Neil and Sean Rogers in 40 minutes explaining so much about the game, our squad and modern football.

And re. your question, and to paraphrase Neil, the thing now is to to play at a higher level of intensity against inferior opposition or maybe do what Chelsea do? It will be fascinating to see what Klopp does.

Offline gogs2

  • Boys Pen
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 1 Chelsea 1
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2017, 08:42:44 PM »
Quote from: El Campeador on February  5, 2009, 09:53:14 PM

    Time to introduce you to my new Theory of Rafativity.

    Every year, when we're not swinging our balls around in Europe, we stink it up for a month while the CL is on break.

    We're in for a superb second half of the season. Wait and see.

True!
LFC!