Author Topic: Steven Gerrard  (Read 64408 times)

Offline _00_deathscar

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #120 on: November 30, 2017, 02:00:24 AM »
No it’s not

You said if one of your midfielders needs to control, then Stevie doesn’t get in. But he would, because you have one controlling with Stevie in the other spot

Simple

I worded it badly then - I meant he's not a holding/controlling midfielder, so that spot doesn't go to him. He's not even in contention, not even for the Premier League All Time XI. The other spots, he's a shoe in for for the Premier League All Time XI, and a contender (though he wouldn't get in) even the All Time Great XI.

Funnily enough, with hindsight and his career now in the past, reckon his best chance of getting into an All Time Great XI would be if he had just become the best right back the world had ever seen.

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #121 on: December 21, 2017, 10:52:38 AM »
Anyone following Gerrard’s work as a manager so far?

Top of U18 Premier League
Top of U19 UEFA Youth League Group
Lost 1 in 21 Matches

Looks like he is shaping up wel as out future manager.

Offline Dench57

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #122 on: December 21, 2017, 11:25:25 AM »
Unseh had a good record with the youth team too lets give it him
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #123 on: December 21, 2017, 03:31:44 PM »
Anyone following Gerrard’s work as a manager so far?

Top of U18 Premier League
Top of U19 UEFA Youth League Group
Lost 1 in 21 Matches

Looks like he is shaping up wel as out future manager.

It means nothing at the youth level, though. The youth level is prone to disparities in physical maturity, mental maturity, resources available, and talent saturation. He's doing well, but it's no predictor of anything in the future, other than he has good players at his disposal.

The main benefit for Liverpool is that he is probably the best person on the planet to be able to teach these kids how to act, train, and behave like professional players if they want to make it to the first team and to be impact players at that level. We couldn't ask for a better transition coach than Gerrard for that.
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Offline newterp

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #124 on: December 21, 2017, 06:15:42 PM »
It means nothing at the youth level, though. The youth level is prone to disparities in physical maturity, mental maturity, resources available, and talent saturation. He's doing well, but it's no predictor of anything in the future, other than he has good players at his disposal.

The main benefit for Liverpool is that he is probably the best person on the planet to be able to teach these kids how to act, train, and behave like professional players if they want to make it to the first team and to be impact players at that level. We couldn't ask for a better transition coach than Gerrard for that.

also wouldn't he need some time as a right-hand or 2nd in command for a first team to further hone that experience?

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #125 on: December 21, 2017, 09:26:56 PM »
also wouldn't he need some time as a right-hand or 2nd in command for a first team to further hone that experience?

Probably. It's very few managers who can go in at first go and be a raging success, without already having great players at their disposal who know what they're doing.
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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #126 on: December 22, 2017, 07:35:06 AM »
Probably. It's very few managers who can go in at first go and be a raging success, without already having great players at their disposal who know what they're doing.

It is a good sign that he isn't fucking anything up though. He's got a very talented group of players but that doesn't always guarantee success. He might be keeping things simple, letting them play and making them express their natural ability (and superiority) against the opposition, but at the very least he's doing the bare minimum and not overcomplicating things.

It was said a lot that it was unlikely that Gerrard would make a good manager and that between him and Carragher, you'd always fancy the latter to go into coaching. If Gerrard has took anything from the managers he's played under and uses that knowledge and experience to become the manager/coach he wants to be then things do like bright for him. He's obsessed with football and I wager that he's more clued up tactically and understands the game more than some give him credit for.

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #127 on: December 22, 2017, 10:00:01 AM »
Probably. It's very few managers who can go in at first go and be a raging success

You're clearly forgetting the intellectual giant that is Sir Ryan of Giggs

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #128 on: December 22, 2017, 11:38:36 AM »
Anyone following Gerrard’s work as a manager so far?

Top of U18 Premier League
Top of U19 UEFA Youth League Group
Lost 1 in 21 Matches

Looks like he is shaping up wel as out future manager.

That's impressive. I hope one day he will win the league with Liverpool, as a manager.
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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #129 on: December 23, 2017, 03:18:24 PM »
It means nothing at the youth level, though. The youth level is prone to disparities in physical maturity, mental maturity, resources available, and talent saturation. He's doing well, but it's no predictor of anything in the future, other than he has good players at his disposal.

The main benefit for Liverpool is that he is probably the best person on the planet to be able to teach these kids how to act, train, and behave like professional players if they want to make it to the first team and to be impact players at that level. We couldn't ask for a better transition coach than Gerrard for that.
I never had the impression that Gerrard was a very intelligent bloke - I don't mean he is unintelligent, mind. I don't know, can one become a successful coach without having that superior intellect?

Offline andspecks

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #130 on: December 23, 2017, 07:00:15 PM »
I never had the impression that Gerrard was a very intelligent bloke - I don't mean he is unintelligent, mind. I don't know, can one become a successful coach without having that superior intellect?
oh my god.

Offline JoeCole

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #131 on: December 24, 2017, 01:24:35 AM »
Turned down the main job at MK Dons because he knew it was too soon. That already makes him more intelligent than half the ex-players that have gone into management in the past 10 years.

Offline bird_lfc

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #132 on: December 24, 2017, 09:11:19 AM »
Turned down the main job at MK Dons because he knew it was too soon. That already makes him more intelligent than half the ex-players that have gone into management in the past 10 years.

In comparison to Giggs who seems to be turning his nose up at every club, for the opposite reasons

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #133 on: December 24, 2017, 07:00:07 PM »
oh my god.
wouldnt put him on a par intellectually with the likes of pep, not that he’s thick

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #134 on: December 24, 2017, 07:11:09 PM »
wouldnt put him on a par intellectually with the likes of pep, not that he’s thick

How would you know?

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #135 on: December 24, 2017, 07:21:20 PM »
How would you know?

I was just about to post the same.

I thought he handled the racist abuse against Brewster really well. Followed the protocol, kept his cool and didn't raise the emotional temperature amongst the group of young players.

Offline Shaved Crossbar

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #136 on: December 24, 2017, 09:22:38 PM »
How would you know?

From his comments on Rafa, Ferguson, Hodgson, Allardyce et al. https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=322947.0

It doesn't mean he can't be a good manager but he's not come across as somebody that critically appraises management.

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #137 on: December 24, 2017, 09:26:44 PM »
From his comments on Rafa, Ferguson, Hodgson, Allardyce et al. https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=322947.0

It doesn't mean he can't be a good manager but he's not come across as somebody that critically appraises management.
aye, he’s definitely not thick but he could probably have a decent managerial career if he was mad enough to do that, but I very much doubt he could have the impact that a great football intellectual like Guardiola or cruyff have had, Alonso is the only one from our recent past who i reckon could do that

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #138 on: December 24, 2017, 09:41:29 PM »
Guardiola and Cruyff? So your examples are two of the people who revolutionised the game? No pressure there for Stevie.  ;D ::)

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #139 on: December 24, 2017, 09:47:08 PM »
aye, he’s definitely not thick but he could probably have a decent managerial career if he was mad enough to do that, but I very much doubt he could have the impact that a great football intellectual like Guardiola or cruyff have had, Alonso is the only one from our recent past who i reckon could do that

Gerrard has had a better coaching career than Alonso thus far(Alonso doesn't have one), so obviously you can't be basing it on much other than their style of play which has little relevance to their actual intelligence, and maybe the fact Alonso is Iberian and Gerrard just a normal scouse?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 09:48:48 PM by Coolie High »

Offline _00_deathscar

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #140 on: December 25, 2017, 02:16:03 AM »
I'm calling it now - he slipped because it's destiny...he's destined to win the league title with us as manager.

Offline zabadoh

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #141 on: December 26, 2017, 01:54:29 PM »
Ace interview with Stevie in the Echo

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/steven-gerrard-liverpool-icon-learning-14079548

Credit to him, Sounds like he’s taking the sensible approach to learning team management, and starting at a level where he can make mistakes.

Quote
I suppose how successful you are will make those decisions for you. For example, I could get a job, a first-team job in this country, and get sacked after four or five games. It might put me off for the rest of my life.

Also, this on his determination to win

Quote
I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t want to win. I’m not one of those Academy people who say it is all about development and results don’t matter.

Of course it is about getting players through to the first team but you’ve got to teach these players about winning, about what you’ve got to do to win and create that attitude and that mentality that surrounds the club.

The earlier they get those values, the better they are going to be further down the line. You can’t all of a sudden say to a player at 18: 'It’s all about winning now, it wasn’t from seven to 17.' That will only confuse the player.

Of course it is about winning. We are top of the league and there to be shot at. But if you asked me whether I wanted to win the league or get two players through to the first team I’d say getting the players into the first team. But really I want both.

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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #142 on: December 26, 2017, 02:09:38 PM »
Ace interview with Stevie in the Echo

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/steven-gerrard-liverpool-icon-learning-14079548

Credit to him, Sounds like he’s taking the sensible approach to learning team management, and starting at a level where he can make mistakes.

Also, this on his determination to win

Quote
I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t want to win. I’m not one of those Academy people who say it is all about development and results don’t matter.

Of course it is about getting players through to the first team but you’ve got to teach these players about winning, about what you’ve got to do to win and create that attitude and that mentality that surrounds the club.

The earlier they get those values, the better they are going to be further down the line. You can’t all of a sudden say to a player at 18: 'It’s all about winning now, it wasn’t from seven to 17.' That will only confuse the player.

Of course it is about winning. We are top of the league and there to be shot at. But if you asked me whether I wanted to win the league or get two players through to the first team I’d say getting the players into the first team. But really I want both.

Yeah I'm not sure about this bit. It's been proven time and again that de-emphasizing results at the younger ages leads to better players. It's how the Dutch and the Spanish do it. The Germans changed their focus to development a while ago and reaped the benefits. It sounds like he doesn't understand the balance correctly. It's not that "winning" is never mentioned, but that you don't place a value on your players depending on whether they've won or lost.

Sounds like he might not be long for being a youth coach. The problem for him is if the next batch of players he gets aren't as good, and his team don't dominate, then all the "winning" talk will make a liar of him, especially if that second batch of players yield more first-team prospects than the one he has right now.

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #143 on: December 26, 2017, 02:24:28 PM »
Gerrard has had a better coaching career than Alonso thus far(Alonso doesn't have one), so obviously you can't be basing it on much other than their style of play which has little relevance to their actual intelligence, and maybe the fact Alonso is Iberian and Gerrard just a normal scouse?
nothing to do with where they are from, just need to read interviews of themselves and how one thought Hodgson was a good idea. besides Alonso only retired a few months ago

Guardiola and Cruyff? So your examples are two of the people who revolutionised the game? No pressure there for Stevie.  ;D ::)
its more a reference to the difficulty many top players have when it comes to management working with people who don’t have their drive/talent/work ethic, it’s why most of the top managers weren’t particularly great players (klopp, ferguson, Mourinho, sacchi, Wenger, lippi etc), simeone can be a better reference point for stevie

Offline rowan_d

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #144 on: December 26, 2017, 11:10:24 PM »


Yeah I'm not sure about this bit. It's been proven time and again that de-emphasizing results at the younger ages leads to better players. It's how the Dutch and the Spanish do it. The Germans changed their focus to development a while ago and reaped the benefits. It sounds like he doesn't understand the balance correctly. It's not that "winning" is never mentioned, but that you don't place a value on your players depending on whether they've won or lost.

Sounds like he might not be long for being a youth coach. The problem for him is if the next batch of players he gets aren't as good, and his team don't dominate, then all the "winning" talk will make a liar of him, especially if that second batch of players yield more first-team prospects than the one he has right now.


The Dutch should maybe think about re-emphasizing the importance of winning.

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #145 on: December 27, 2017, 12:46:37 AM »
The Dutch should maybe think about re-emphasizing the importance of winning.

Not to take Stevie's thread too far off topic, but the recent decline in quality of Dutch players has far more to do with too highly organized and technical of training sessions rather than relative de-emphasis on winning. The Dutch themselves are starting to criticize their youth set-ups as being too regimented and focused on passing rather than dribbling and creativity. No accident they haven't brought through any Robbens recently...
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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #146 on: December 27, 2017, 02:29:47 AM »
It depends on how you go about winning. Is the emphasis on winning from a mentality standpoint? Making sure that players are accountable for their actions and how it impacts the team. Example being working hard off the ball or being unselfish in front of goal...

Or is it winning from the standpoint of forcing players to do the % thing, that helps them today but won't help them 5 years from now.

We'll find out in the future. A lot of us have emotionally invested in the success of Stevie, so we'll be biased in these early stages.


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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #147 on: December 27, 2017, 02:47:43 AM »
The Dutch should maybe think about re-emphasizing the importance of winning.

Not really. They need to re-emphasize Coerver again, rather than fighting it, as they have done for years. The 4v4 model is great, but it encourages passing too much and overloads, and restricts dribbling. The old German 3v3 model was great for developing dribbling. It's also the Coerver model. They should maybe think more about that :D
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 02:51:24 AM by PhaseOfSleighBells »
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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #148 on: December 27, 2017, 02:50:21 AM »
Not to take Stevie's thread too far off topic, but the recent decline in quality of Dutch players has far more to do with too highly organized and technical of training sessions rather than relative de-emphasis on winning. The Dutch themselves are starting to criticize their youth set-ups as being too regimented and focused on passing rather than dribbling and creativity. No accident they haven't brought through any Robbens recently...

Ha! Great minds :D
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Offline Samie

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #149 on: December 27, 2017, 02:56:43 AM »
Not really. They need to re-emphasize Coerver again, rather than fighting it, as they have done for years. The 4v4 model is great, but it encourages passing too much and overloads, and restricts dribbling. The old German 3v3 model was great for developing dribbling. It's also the Coerver model. They should maybe think more about that :D

Or bring back King Louis...okay not serious...okay kinda serious. He's always been an innovator in his own way going back to Ajax and Barca days.  :D

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #150 on: December 27, 2017, 03:01:33 AM »
Or bring back King Louis...okay not serious...okay kinda serious. He's always been an innovator in his own way going back to Ajax and Barca days.  :D

He has been their biggest problem! ;D

His whole system is based on NOT taking players on. They need to look elsewhere. Maybe ask Alfred Galustian to do some stuff with their curriculum ;D
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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #151 on: December 27, 2017, 03:09:22 AM »
Haha realised that as soon as I posted it mate. Knew you would pull me up on that.  ;D

You also need to be lucky with the talent pool and the Dutch havn't been as lucky for the last decade or so.

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #152 on: December 27, 2017, 03:14:23 AM »
Haha realised that as soon as I posted it mate. Knew you would pull me up on that.  ;D

You also need to be lucky with the talent pool and the Dutch havn't been as lucky for the last decade or so.

I think part of their problem is that everybody does what the Dutch did for years - so in those days their talent pool stood out because they were doing things nobody else was doing. But then Spain and Barca perfected it, and "Best Practices" meant that other countries took what the Dutch did and made it their own. When that happens, everyone else's resources rises to match yours, and you no longer stand out. Same thing happened to Wenger - came to England with Yoga, Macrobiotic diets, Recovery Days, and a form of Moneyball in the transfer method. And he stood out. Now everyone does it, and he doesn't stand out anymore.

As soon as everyone figures out how Southampton do their recruiting, nobody will be buying Southampton players anymore ;D

And if Stevie is actually on the right track about the winning thing at youth levels, and then we get a leg-up because of it, it won't be long until everyone else catches up. Such are the cycles of football ;D
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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #153 on: December 27, 2017, 03:31:06 AM »
Agreed.

Also for the size of their country they've produced outstanding footballers and some great players. So they're due a dip if we go by that. Funnily enough their neigbours the Belgians have their  crop of "Golden Generation".

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #154 on: December 27, 2017, 11:25:23 PM »
Gerrard has had a better coaching career than Alonso thus far(Alonso doesn't have one), so obviously you can't be basing it on much other than their style of play which has little relevance to their actual intelligence, and maybe the fact Alonso is Iberian and Gerrard just a normal scouse?
Can only imagine the reaction if Stevie had taken up a fake team to coach for publicity for Adidas like Alonso did.

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #155 on: February 15, 2018, 11:16:44 AM »
This guy is so biased for Liverpool in his punditry it's unreal  ;D

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #156 on: February 15, 2018, 05:13:56 PM »
This guy is so biased for Liverpool in his punditry it's unreal  ;D

needs some major balance the shite most of the others come out with :D 
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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #157 on: February 15, 2018, 05:23:53 PM »
needs some major balance the shite most of the others come out with :D 

Probably get carra to balance it out

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #158 on: February 15, 2018, 05:26:41 PM »
Probably get carra to balance it out

It'd take about fifty Stevies to balance out the negative shite Carragher and Murphy spout
I believe the average spend will go up £5 ahead and that’s being very conservative. So that’s £185k. Then you have a new 25k who will spend £10 a head that’s £250k. This is without the massively enhanced hospitality areas.

Offline Dim Glas

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Re: Steven Gerrard
« Reply #159 on: February 15, 2018, 05:26:48 PM »
Probably get carra to balance it out
like good cop bad cop?

It'd take about fifty Stevies to balance out the negative shite Carragher and Murphy spout

indeed  :D
Wir brauchen viele Jahre, bis wir verstehen, wie kostbar Augenblicke sein können.