Author Topic: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August  (Read 6021 times)

Offline rob1966

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2016, 06:33:42 PM »
Signed the petition

Offline Umbarto

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2016, 12:55:12 AM »
snip

... the vast majority of hunters I've been around...

Can't speak for all these other white devils.

Read the article at the link, quite astonished there were laws on the books that allowed people to kill the wolves inside a national park, don't really know the reasoning behind that being legal at all.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 01:00:15 AM by The Red Dojo »

Offline Brissyred

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2016, 09:17:39 AM »
Can't speak for all these other white devils.

Read the article at the link, quite astonished there were laws on the books that allowed people to kill the wolves inside a national park, don't really know the reasoning behind that being legal at all.

Apparently for the same reasons the grouse gamekeepers can kill birds of prey, money.   
There is a lot of money made from the hunters coming in and the wolves were killing the animals the hunters wanted to hunt, therefor they had to be eradicated.

Offline Toon-Mick

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #43 on: August 11, 2016, 09:41:19 AM »
Thanks to everybody who has signed the petition, if anybody hasn't and wants further persuasion, this might do it.  Earlier this morning the RSPB have announced that another Golden Eagle has gone missing over Grouse moors in Scotland.  They can't go missing in England because we no longer have any, they've already been killed off.

Here's a link to a story about another iconic Eagle going missing, it's one of many in Scotland and one of quite a few (eight) to go missing in a very small area. 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/11/eight-tagged-golden-eagles-disappear-scottish-highlands


Offline Umbarto

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #44 on: August 11, 2016, 05:56:30 PM »
Apparently for the same reasons the grouse gamekeepers can kill birds of prey, money.   
There is a lot of money made from the hunters coming in and the wolves were killing the animals the hunters wanted to hunt, therefor they had to be eradicated.

Understand that, but we're talking about a national park these wolves were on.  As far as money is concerned, the real money-spinners are on guided hunts and the like in Alaska, I have never heard of guided hunts being allowed in national or state parks.  You can't even take a firearm into a state park in North Carolina, and I know that one from personal experience with that law.

Dunno mate, it's Alaska, still a vast wilderness up there and more than 10 times the size of England.  Don't really know what they are doing with their laws, it's hard enough keeping track of my own state laws as they even differ from county to county in North Carolina and change annually.

Offline Toon-Mick

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #45 on: August 15, 2016, 10:46:36 AM »
The petition has past the 100k that is needed for banning driven grouse shooting to be debated so that you to anybody who has signed.  This doesn't mean that we will definitely have a debate because a lot of Tory MP's will be on the side of their mates.  If we manage to get the debate then we have a good chance of highlighting everything that is wrong with driven grouse shooting.

Since my last post in here it has been reported that another golden eagle has gone missing in Scotland in an area where they regularly go missing.  Incredibly the shooters are claiming that the birds are being killed by wind farms, even though the wind farms have not actually been built yet, they produced a map showing lots of wind farms, most are still in the planning stages.

I have nothing against people who kill for the pot, driven grouse shooting is totally different and is build on the foundations of criminal activity, lies and deceit.

Here's a link to the latest lies from the shooters and it's comedy gold, read it for a laugh.

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2016/08/14/non-existent-windfarms-blamed-for-disappearing-eagles-in-monadhliaths/

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2016, 03:22:23 PM »
Here's an RSPB report for anyone who is interested in reading about bird crime in the UK:

https://www.rspb.org.uk/Images/birdcrime_2014_tcm9-410409.pdf

Some numbers from the report of 2014:

72 reports
of poisoning

179 reports of
shooting and
destruction of
birds of prey

19 individual
prosecutions

Here's an article from the BBC regarding the online petition:

Growing call for grouse shooting ban as season opens

'More than 80,000 people have signed an online petition calling for a ban on grouse shooting as the season starts.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-37049675

'Sir Ian Botham and Chris Packham clash over grouse shoot'

'Grouse shooter Sir Ian Botham and BBC wildlife presenter and RSPB vice president Chris Packham clash over grouse shooting on the Glorious Twelfth - the start of the shooting season.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37058090?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/b6313976-a311-480f-a813-08caddad7a2f/agriculture&link_location=live-reporting-map

« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 03:26:09 PM by Red-Soldier »

Offline jillc

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2016, 07:43:50 AM »
The grouse shooters aim to kill: the first casualty is the truth

George Monbiot
Their campaign against the RSPB is a shameful example of ‘astroturfing’. The public should beware

This is how, in a democracy, you win when you are outnumbered: you purchase the results. It’s how politics now works. The very rich throw money at the parties, lobby groups and thinktanks that project their demands. If they are clever, they keep their names out of it.

Here’s an example: a campaign fronted by the former England cricket captain Sir Ian Botham, called You Forgot the Birds. It appears to have two purposes: to bring down the RSPB – the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds – and to get the natural history presenter Chris Packham sacked from the BBC.

It likes to present itself as “... a network of people who are passionate about bird habitat. Some of us are conservationists or self-confessed birders, some are farmers and landowners, some work full-time in the countryside while others are volunteers from the cities.” And this is what it revealed in a footnote at the bottom of one of its press releases, that has since vanished from the web: “The You Forgot the Birds campaign is funded by the British grouse industry.” Ah, the grouse industry. Who would have guessed?

Grouse are wild birds, but cosseted at the expense of other life forms. Predators and competitors must be eliminated, either legally or, in the case of protected species such as peregrine falcons, golden eagles, red kites and hen harriers, illegally. Many grouse moors are black holes for birds of prey. They disappear and their satellite tags stop working in the same places, again and again. Alien abduction? Russian black ops? No: shooting, trapping and poisoning by the gamekeepers employed to maximise grouse numbers, most of whom, on these remote moors, get away with it.

Producing as many grouse as possible also means burning and draining the land, to create a monoculture of the young heather the birds eat. Sure, this releases the carbon in the soil, pollutes rivers and helps to flood the towns downstream. But to hell with the plebs.

To rub our noses in it properly, we pay them for the privilege: grouse moors are subsidised by us. At the height of his austerity programme, as essential public services were cut to the bone, David Cameron’s government raised the subsidy for grouse moors by 84%, to £56 per hectare. Some owners now harvest hundreds of thousands of pounds of our money every year.

Cameron also tried to close the national wildlife crime unit, which would have pleased his friends no end. It was saved only by a public outcry. Conservationists have called for a law of vicarious liability, making the owners of grouse moors responsible for the wildlife crime they commission, rather than leaving only the gamekeepers to take the rap. But this proposal was struck down by Cameron’s environment minister, Richard Benyon. I’m sure it had nothing to do with the fact that he owns a grouse moor.

But through the efforts of wildlife campaigners (like Packham and the RSPB) and people whose homes have been flooded downstream, the grouse industry is now being called to account. Last week, the petition posted by the conservationist Mark Avery calling for an end to driven grouse shooting – where wild birds are sent towards the guns by “beaters” – passed the 100,000-signature threshold: the issue is now likely to be debated in parliament.

Through the efforts of wildlife campaigners like Chris Packham, the grouse industry is now being called to account
The result is You Forgot the Birds, championed by the Daily Mail, which describes it as “a grassroots campaign by farmers and conservationists”. It is, of course, coincidental that Paul Dacre, the Mail’s editor, owns a grouse moor.

We know who’s in front of this “grassroots campaign”: Botham, who runs a shoot in North Yorkshire. But who’s behind it? Only one funder has so far been identified: the billionaire hedge fund owner Crispin Odey. We also know that the campaign is run by a lobbying company called Abzed. It boasts that “a besieged grouse moor community turned to Abzed. Our approach was to turn the spotlight on to the RSPB.” Very grassroots, I’m sure.

Claims made by the campaign keep falling apart. Last year the Telegraph had to issue a humiliating correction and apology to the RSPB after it repeated statements in a You Forgot the Birds press release that seem to have been conjured out of thin air. Last week, in the Mail and on the Today programme, Botham recited figures for the rare birds found on grouse moors during a survey by the British Trust for Ornithology. The BTO says it has conducted no such survey.

The purpose of the countryside, for people like Botham, Odey and Dacre, is an exclusive playground for the rich. For them, authentic country people are those who own or rent significant tracts of land, many of whom live in cities, and those who work for them, as long as they wear tweed instead of Gore-Tex. As for the RSPB and its members, they’re bipedal vermin. Never mind that many of them live and work in the countryside; they are interlopers with no right to a voice in rural life.

The media collaborates. News reporters describe shooting and hunting lobbyists as “countryside groups”, anointing them as the authentic rural voice and casting those who oppose them – who often seem to possess a far greater love for and knowledge of the countryside – as interfering townies. Documentary-makers seek a stereotyped rusticity which, though politically charged, is presented as the neutral and immutable spirit of rural life. The co-presenter of the series Clarissa and the Countryman was Sir Johnny Scott, a baronet who owns 5,000 acres in the Scottish borders: that’s what the BBC means by countryman. Where is he now? Ah yes, fronting up You Forgot the Birds with Botham.

to be legitimate to cheat and bludgeon. That’s how the lords of the land have long maintained their pre-eminence. Today you can no longer call out the yeomanry, sit in judgment then have dissenters hanged. But there are other means of bypassing democracy. You buy yourself a crowd, or at least an outfit that looks like a crowd. You demand, from your position of comfortable anonymity, the silencing of people who contest your claims, like Packham. You use a corrupt and partisan media to hound them.

This is how politics works these days: astroturf groups (fake grassroots movements) and undisclosed interests are everywhere. The same forces are at play in the tobacco industry, fossil fuels, junk food, banking, guns, private health provision, in fact throughout public life. They recruit celebrities to front their campaigns. The astroturf groups confuse and obfuscate, make up stories and grant their anonymous backers plausible deniability.

They are a threat to democracy. Call them out, expose them to the light, and don’t believe a word they say.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/16/grouse-shooters-kill-first-casualty-is-truth-astroturfing-botham-rspb-packham?CMP=share_btn_tw
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Offline Toon-Mick

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2016, 12:20:08 PM »
The grouse shooters aim to kill: the first casualty is the truth

George Monbiot
Their campaign against the RSPB is a shameful example of ‘astroturfing’. The public should beware

This is how, in a democracy, you win when you are outnumbered: you purchase the results. It’s how politics now works. The very rich throw money at the parties, lobby groups and thinktanks that project their demands. If they are clever, they keep their names out of it.

Here’s an example: a campaign fronted by the former England cricket captain Sir Ian Botham, called You Forgot the Birds. It appears to have two purposes: to bring down the RSPB – the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds – and to get the natural history presenter Chris Packham sacked from the BBC.

It likes to present itself as “... a network of people who are passionate about bird habitat. Some of us are conservationists or self-confessed birders, some are farmers and landowners, some work full-time in the countryside while others are volunteers from the cities.” And this is what it revealed in a footnote at the bottom of one of its press releases, that has since vanished from the web: “The You Forgot the Birds campaign is funded by the British grouse industry.” Ah, the grouse industry. Who would have guessed?

Grouse are wild birds, but cosseted at the expense of other life forms. Predators and competitors must be eliminated, either legally or, in the case of protected species such as peregrine falcons, golden eagles, red kites and hen harriers, illegally. Many grouse moors are black holes for birds of prey. They disappear and their satellite tags stop working in the same places, again and again. Alien abduction? Russian black ops? No: shooting, trapping and poisoning by the gamekeepers employed to maximise grouse numbers, most of whom, on these remote moors, get away with it.

Producing as many grouse as possible also means burning and draining the land, to create a monoculture of the young heather the birds eat. Sure, this releases the carbon in the soil, pollutes rivers and helps to flood the towns downstream. But to hell with the plebs.

To rub our noses in it properly, we pay them for the privilege: grouse moors are subsidised by us. At the height of his austerity programme, as essential public services were cut to the bone, David Cameron’s government raised the subsidy for grouse moors by 84%, to £56 per hectare. Some owners now harvest hundreds of thousands of pounds of our money every year.

Cameron also tried to close the national wildlife crime unit, which would have pleased his friends no end. It was saved only by a public outcry. Conservationists have called for a law of vicarious liability, making the owners of grouse moors responsible for the wildlife crime they commission, rather than leaving only the gamekeepers to take the rap. But this proposal was struck down by Cameron’s environment minister, Richard Benyon. I’m sure it had nothing to do with the fact that he owns a grouse moor.

But through the efforts of wildlife campaigners (like Packham and the RSPB) and people whose homes have been flooded downstream, the grouse industry is now being called to account. Last week, the petition posted by the conservationist Mark Avery calling for an end to driven grouse shooting – where wild birds are sent towards the guns by “beaters” – passed the 100,000-signature threshold: the issue is now likely to be debated in parliament.

Through the efforts of wildlife campaigners like Chris Packham, the grouse industry is now being called to account
The result is You Forgot the Birds, championed by the Daily Mail, which describes it as “a grassroots campaign by farmers and conservationists”. It is, of course, coincidental that Paul Dacre, the Mail’s editor, owns a grouse moor.

We know who’s in front of this “grassroots campaign”: Botham, who runs a shoot in North Yorkshire. But who’s behind it? Only one funder has so far been identified: the billionaire hedge fund owner Crispin Odey. We also know that the campaign is run by a lobbying company called Abzed. It boasts that “a besieged grouse moor community turned to Abzed. Our approach was to turn the spotlight on to the RSPB.” Very grassroots, I’m sure.

Claims made by the campaign keep falling apart. Last year the Telegraph had to issue a humiliating correction and apology to the RSPB after it repeated statements in a You Forgot the Birds press release that seem to have been conjured out of thin air. Last week, in the Mail and on the Today programme, Botham recited figures for the rare birds found on grouse moors during a survey by the British Trust for Ornithology. The BTO says it has conducted no such survey.

The purpose of the countryside, for people like Botham, Odey and Dacre, is an exclusive playground for the rich. For them, authentic country people are those who own or rent significant tracts of land, many of whom live in cities, and those who work for them, as long as they wear tweed instead of Gore-Tex. As for the RSPB and its members, they’re bipedal vermin. Never mind that many of them live and work in the countryside; they are interlopers with no right to a voice in rural life.

The media collaborates. News reporters describe shooting and hunting lobbyists as “countryside groups”, anointing them as the authentic rural voice and casting those who oppose them – who often seem to possess a far greater love for and knowledge of the countryside – as interfering townies. Documentary-makers seek a stereotyped rusticity which, though politically charged, is presented as the neutral and immutable spirit of rural life. The co-presenter of the series Clarissa and the Countryman was Sir Johnny Scott, a baronet who owns 5,000 acres in the Scottish borders: that’s what the BBC means by countryman. Where is he now? Ah yes, fronting up You Forgot the Birds with Botham.

to be legitimate to cheat and bludgeon. That’s how the lords of the land have long maintained their pre-eminence. Today you can no longer call out the yeomanry, sit in judgment then have dissenters hanged. But there are other means of bypassing democracy. You buy yourself a crowd, or at least an outfit that looks like a crowd. You demand, from your position of comfortable anonymity, the silencing of people who contest your claims, like Packham. You use a corrupt and partisan media to hound them.

This is how politics works these days: astroturf groups (fake grassroots movements) and undisclosed interests are everywhere. The same forces are at play in the tobacco industry, fossil fuels, junk food, banking, guns, private health provision, in fact throughout public life. They recruit celebrities to front their campaigns. The astroturf groups confuse and obfuscate, make up stories and grant their anonymous backers plausible deniability.

They are a threat to democracy. Call them out, expose them to the light, and don’t believe a word they say.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/16/grouse-shooters-kill-first-casualty-is-truth-astroturfing-botham-rspb-packham?CMP=share_btn_tw

Monbiot is right, the first casualty is the truth.  I mentioned above about the eagles being killed by wind farms which don't actually exist.  Botham has been mentioned within the last few posts and the man's an idiot.  He was speaking out against Chris Packham and mentioned a survey carried out by the BTO in which the grouse moors were found to home endangered waders in huge quantities.  The BTO have rubbished the claims made by Botham and have said that no such survey had been carried out.

Driven grouse shooting is reliant on and underpinned by the illegal activities of gamekeepers and their scorched earth policies.  If this wasn't taking place now, it would never be allowed.  If we went to the government and said that we wanted to kill millions of animals, a lot of them protected, so that we could kill other animals we'd get laughed at and we'd more than likely get arrested if we carried it out.

The shooters claim this is traditional, that doesn't make it right.  We evolve and learn that things aren't right just because they're traditional.  It was traditional to breathe in asbestos before it was made illegal.  It was traditional to put lead in petrol before it was made illegal.  We learn and we adapt and move on, this is just another case of that.

Offline whiteboots

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2016, 12:46:55 PM »
I am not really clued up on this.

Are the grouse shot sold for food, or just abandoned?

I assume there are hundreds of grouse, do natural predators really make so much diference that they are exterminated?

Offline Toon-Mick

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2016, 11:02:54 PM »
I am not really clued up on this.

Are the grouse shot sold for food, or just abandoned?

I assume there are hundreds of grouse, do natural predators really make so much diference that they are exterminated?

Grouse are eaten by the shooters but they kill so many they sell some, give some away and some end up being discarded.  There's 250,000 pairs in the UK and the birds are used to being naturally predated and lay between six to nine eggs to compensate for the loss.  We now have so many birds that they spread louping ill virus via ticks which also effect mountain hares.  Basically, the grouse and hares pass it to each other and that's why so many mountain hares are slaughtered on an industrial scale, google 'mountain hare slaughter'.

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Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2016, 09:06:02 AM »
Satellite tagged Aberdeenshire raptor missing in Highlands

A satellite tag fitted to a hen harrier has stopped transmitting in the same mountains where eight tagged eagles "vanished", RSPB Scotland has said.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-37107652

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2016, 09:36:14 AM »
I have a balanced view on the whole issue of hunting, but regardless of the purported reason for it, worthy or otherwise, any form that sees such wastage and has such a huge impact on our natural habitats needs to be fought. Life should not be so cheap that you can kill needlessly and have the carcasses end up being disposed (including those sold to market which are not fit for consumption, or that don't end up being bought and eaten anyway).

The essential skills of hunting are important for us to keep alive, but when there's so little of such involved in the killing, and no conscientious approach to consequences for the species killed and others affected, sport or otherwise it needs very tight controls imposed. Doing it purely for fun is pretty obscene though; go clay pigeon shooting or down the range if you want to pretend you're a big powerful man.
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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2016, 09:25:22 AM »
I see a counter-petition has been put up now and reached over 10,000 signatures.  Bad meffs they are.
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Offline Toon-Mick

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #55 on: May 5, 2017, 10:00:49 PM »

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #56 on: May 5, 2017, 10:06:57 PM »
Total bastard. These birds are on the verge of extinction. Just their luck we have a Government that couldn't give a toss about wildlife.  :butt
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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #57 on: May 5, 2017, 10:56:12 PM »
Total bastard. These birds are on the verge of extinction. Just their luck we have a Government that couldn't give a toss about wildlife.  :butt

They couldn't give a toss about you or me, wildlife hasn't got a chance.  Wait until we're out of the EU and they can repeal legislation and make an even bigger profit.  Future generations will hate ours and rightly so.

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2017, 09:34:09 PM »
I've got a couple of updates to this thread, firstly this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDWfQJ5U3Nk the bastard who shot the hen harrier got away with it because the video was taken without the grouse moor owners consent.

Next, this is a grouse moor in the peak district, one of our national parks, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbGdfhL-5XM badgers and foxes shot, 1 of the badgers being shot isn't shown here as the video has been handed to the police.

Maybe you can sign up to https://www.thunderclap.it/projects/58601-the-inglorious12th if you're on Twitter, Facebook or Tunblr to help raise the profile of what is going on.  The more people that finds out what is happening, the more pressure those in power are under to do something.

Cheers lads and lasses.

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2017, 10:08:52 PM »
https://www.rspb.org.uk/our-work/rspb-news/news/443191--uk-hen-harrier-population-suffers-decline

UK hen harrier population suffers decline, according to latest figures

Latest hen harrier survey reveals UK population in 2016 of 545 territorial pairs, a drop of 88 pairs since the last national survey in 2010.

In England the hen harrier remains on the brink of extinction as a breeding species with just four territorial pairs in 2016. Northern Ireland and Wales also both report a decline in numbers in the past six years.
Read more at https://www.rspb.org.uk/our-work/rspb-news/news/443191--uk-hen-harrier-population-suffers-decline#Ct4CcdCRULo6BV7G.99

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #60 on: July 12, 2017, 10:14:21 PM »
https://www.rspb.org.uk/our-work/rspb-news/news/443191--uk-hen-harrier-population-suffers-decline

UK hen harrier population suffers decline, according to latest figures

Latest hen harrier survey reveals UK population in 2016 of 545 territorial pairs, a drop of 88 pairs since the last national survey in 2010.

In England the hen harrier remains on the brink of extinction as a breeding species with just four territorial pairs in 2016. Northern Ireland and Wales also both report a decline in numbers in the past six years.
Read more at https://www.rspb.org.uk/our-work/rspb-news/news/443191--uk-hen-harrier-population-suffers-decline#Ct4CcdCRULo6BV7G.99

A totally disgusting situation, but hardly surprising when we have a Government that put people who shoot in charge of "wildlife protection."  :no
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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #61 on: July 13, 2017, 01:31:03 AM »
I'm sure Jeremy Corbyn has done something just as bad.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #62 on: July 13, 2017, 09:20:34 AM »
A totally disgusting situation, but hardly surprising when we have a Government that put people who shoot in charge of "wildlife protection."  :no

I agree, it's disgusting.

I was actually amazed they agreed to continue to fund the National Wildlife Crime Unit for another four years, the longest in it's history, until 2020. 




Offline Toon-Mick

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #63 on: October 20, 2017, 03:26:32 PM »
I hope that nobody minds me bumping this again, a relatively new petition has been created and it's heading towards the first milestone which is to get to 10,000 signatures to get a government response.  https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/201443

The last petition was during a time when the government had a majority and could therefore do and say anything they wanted to, and they basically displayed arrogance which was off the scale and basically brushed everybody off.  This time it's slightly different as they don't have a majority without the help of the DUP and the promise to bring back fox hunting is said to have hurt the Tories at the polls so maybe this time they'll take a different approach.

Please sign the petition again if you are either against the persecution of our wildlife or even if you're neutral because none of us know where the tipping point lies with the environment and once we lose a species it's too late.

You may not be interested in wildlife but your kids or grandkids could be and it's much better to show them something in the wild than it is to show them photograph of an extinct species.

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #64 on: October 20, 2017, 03:44:27 PM »
Signed

Offline Toon-Mick

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #65 on: October 20, 2017, 04:21:19 PM »
Signed

Thank you, that is very much appreciated.

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #66 on: October 20, 2017, 04:23:12 PM »
 :thumbup
Nobody hasn't embarrassed me, because i have no respect for you and 4-5 others like you.

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #67 on: October 20, 2017, 06:05:19 PM »
9,353 signatures
We've added your signature to the petition:

Ban Driven Grouse Shooting

Keep up the push, mate.
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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #68 on: October 20, 2017, 07:30:42 PM »
Talking the other day  with someone who lives on Stockbridge Village/Cantril Farm. Saying they have had loads of pheasants roaming the roads and gardens. Seems they have escaped from local breeding schemes presumably large landowners in the area breeding them for shoots. Dunno if true but they were complaining that they were “everywhere”,
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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #69 on: October 23, 2017, 10:14:01 PM »
Talking the other day  with someone who lives on Stockbridge Village/Cantril Farm. Saying they have had loads of pheasants roaming the roads and gardens. Seems they have escaped from local breeding schemes presumably large landowners in the area breeding them for shoots. Dunno if true but they were complaining that they were “everywhere”,

The pheasant shooting season has just started so they'll probably be released birds escaping the guns.  Dead pheasants are littered all over the roads where I live and I've had my car windscreen damaged when one got hit on the opposite carriageway and hit my car when I was doing 70 mph.  Somebody will be killed soon because the local roads are covered in skid marks where people have tried not to kill them.  The local shooting estate can legally release them into the wild where they're classed as wild birds so they're not responsible for them.  They shoot them during the shooting season and collect them again after the shooting season so they can breed them, they're classed as livestock once they've got them back.

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #70 on: October 23, 2017, 10:18:08 PM »
The pheasant shooting season has just started so they'll probably be released birds escaping the guns.  Dead pheasants are littered all over the roads where I live and I've had my car windscreen damaged when one got hit on the opposite carriageway and hit my car when I was doing 70 mph.  Somebody will be killed soon because the local roads are covered in skid marks where people have tried not to kill them.  The local shooting estate can legally release them into the wild where they're classed as wild birds so they're not responsible for them.  They shoot them during the shooting season and collect them again after the shooting season so they can breed them, they're classed as livestock once they've got them back.

What in God's name does a grown man get out of shooting at a bird ffs? If I live to be a 100 I will never understand this disgusting past time. I wouldn't mind the pheasants shooting at the men though, that is something I'd pay to see. Just obscene.
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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #71 on: October 23, 2017, 10:40:44 PM »
What in God's name does a grown man get out of shooting at a bird ffs? If I live to be a 100 I will never understand this disgusting past time. I wouldn't mind the pheasants shooting at the men though, that is something I'd pay to see. Just obscene.

It's not just pheasants, mountain hares are are a protected species but they're slaughtered in Scotland on an industrial scale because they carry ticks which cause problems for grouse which are shot for fun.  Have a look at this link https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mountain+hare+slaughter+scotland&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB762GB762&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi9lIa22YfXAhUpLcAKHYLeCTgQ_AUICigB&biw=1229&bih=607 and look at some of the photographs.

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #72 on: October 23, 2017, 10:47:14 PM »
It's not just pheasants, mountain hares are are a protected species but they're slaughtered in Scotland on an industrial scale because they carry ticks which cause problems for grouse which are shot for fun.  Have a look at this link https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mountain+hare+slaughter+scotland&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB762GB762&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi9lIa22YfXAhUpLcAKHYLeCTgQ_AUICigB&biw=1229&bih=607 and look at some of the photographs.

I used to be in the League Against Cruel Sports, and we would often moniter the hunts and hare coursing, especially when the obscene Waterloo Cup was on. Those hunts have no respect for anyone but themselves. They would invade people's properties chasing foxes into people's garden while the hounds tore it apart. The worst was the cub hunting season, it's against the law to dig and put a terrier down, but time after time we would get evidence against that very practice. It rarely lead to prosecutions though, or if it did they would get off with the lightest sentence. Say nothing of intimidating the hunt moniters. My friend was left with a fractured cheek bone after someone attacked him, and then they blocked us from taking him to hospital. They are just despicable people to be honest. I just despise the whole business, people don't realise how dirty it is.
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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #73 on: October 24, 2017, 08:40:54 AM »
The pheasant shooting season has just started so they'll probably be released birds escaping the guns.  Dead pheasants are littered all over the roads where I live and I've had my car windscreen damaged when one got hit on the opposite carriageway and hit my car when I was doing 70 mph.  Somebody will be killed soon because the local roads are covered in skid marks where people have tried not to kill them.  The local shooting estate can legally release them into the wild where they're classed as wild birds so they're not responsible for them.  They shoot them during the shooting season and collect them again after the shooting season so they can breed them, they're classed as livestock once they've got them back.

That livestock thing!  Rabbits are vermin to a farmer unless someone is caught taking them for food. Then they become livestock and taking them becomes poaching -or theft. Imagine someone being charged with theft of rats or mice? Me neither
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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #74 on: October 28, 2017, 02:09:46 PM »
We've reached the 10,000 required for a government response, if it's anything like the last one it will be bollocks taken from the shooters websites but at least we're keeping the pressure up for change.  The last petition reached over the 100,000 required for a debate in parliament.  The debate ended up with a load of Tory MP's basically saying how good grouse shooting was and how bad people like Dr Mark Avery are for highlighting the issue. 

Thanks you to everybody who has signed the petition, if you haven't done so yet then you still can at https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/201443 as we now need to get to 100,000. 

All we want if for the law to be upheld and we want our wildlife to be safe and around for future generations to enjoy.  Not everybody appreciates the wildlife but you might do in future years and you'll at least have the opportunity to do so if we protect it.  My kids got me interested in it and I'm now fighting for them and their kids and future generation so they have a choice as to whether they go and see them or not.  If the persecution carries on the only way to see animals in future will either be in a zoo or worse a museum.

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2017, 10:56:40 PM »
We've reached the 10,000 required for a government response, if it's anything like the last one it will be bollocks taken from the shooters websites but at least we're keeping the pressure up for change.  The last petition reached over the 100,000 required for a debate in parliament.  The debate ended up with a load of Tory MP's basically saying how good grouse shooting was and how bad people like Dr Mark Avery are for highlighting the issue. 

Thanks you to everybody who has signed the petition, if you haven't done so yet then you still can at https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/201443 as we now need to get to 100,000. 

All we want if for the law to be upheld and we want our wildlife to be safe and around for future generations to enjoy.  Not everybody appreciates the wildlife but you might do in future years and you'll at least have the opportunity to do so if we protect it.  My kids got me interested in it and I'm now fighting for them and their kids and future generation so they have a choice as to whether they go and see them or not.  If the persecution carries on the only way to see animals in future will either be in a zoo or worse a museum.

Best of luck with this campaign. Good to see it reach the required number needed. You're right about fighting for your kid's and future generations, if ordinary people don't do it wildlife will just disappear. Just keep up the fight.
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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #76 on: August 14, 2019, 03:20:48 PM »
Another year another petition; https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/266770 .

This one is only a day old and already flying up in numbers, so well worth signing. More and more people are aware of how repulsive and harmful this kind of driven shooting really is. This industry has had every opportunity to self-regulate and they cannot do it, they are still trapping and killing protected species. Time to end it.

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #77 on: August 14, 2019, 03:37:17 PM »
Just disgusting, the whole thing. Keep thinking as humans we would evolve quicker in this day and age but doesn't seem so. Absolute sick bastards and can't fathom for one minute why people would want to hunt down defenceless animals and do this to them. Fucking cowards. Hopefully soon enough we can rid things like this from our society.

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #78 on: August 14, 2019, 07:52:42 PM »
I am not really clued up on this.

Are the grouse shot sold for food, or just abandoned?

I assume there are hundreds of grouse, do natural predators really make so much diference that they are exterminated?


The grouse are eaten. If you eat grouse you'll often find shot in it.

Unlike pheasants which are bred and released, Grouse are "wild" but the moors have to be managed to provide a much larger population of grouse than there would be naturally to appease yawing chinless wonders who enjoy the "sport"

Any predators are ruthlessly slaughtered, protected or not.
The Forest of Bowland has ironically taken the Hen Harrier as its symbol yet this magnificent raptor has been hunted to the point of extinction there and across the UK by the yockles and gamekeepers, the  lackeys of the privileged few who enjoy the sport. Buzzards, Kites, Falcons are always being found shot and poisoned by them. No one ever gets prosecuted. During the actual shoots, the gunmen, especially the European toffs, will shoot literally anything that flies near the butts. Gulls, crows, whatever.

The sport also receives millions in subsidies to the wealthy landowners (surprise, surprise) so no austerity for grouse!

Evidence from studies being done with Lancaster University apparently shows that the ways the moors are managed to provide home for the grouse is leading to huge damage on the ecosystems in the valleys below, particularly the rivers and increasing flash flooding risk.

Its a disgusting sport and a disgusting use of public/european money. Nor does it contribute anything like the money claimed to the local economies.

No wonder the fucking Winsdors love it!

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Re: Driven Grouse Shooting - Inglorious 12th August
« Reply #79 on: August 14, 2019, 08:56:33 PM »
This happened a day after Grouse shooting season began.

Appeal over golden eagle 'with trap on leg'

The sighting of a golden eagle with what appeared to be a trap attached to its leg in the skies over Aberdeenshire has sparked an appeal for information.

The bird of prey was seen flying in the Crathie area of Deeside.

Concerns were raised by a tourist and Police Scotland said there were serious concerns for the bird's welfare.

Sgt Kim Wood said: "We would encourage anyone who has information which could help to locate this eagle to contact the Police on 101."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-49330589