Author Topic: The Labour Party (*)  (Read 220169 times)

Offline We're not signing...

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4960 on: March 18, 2017, 09:08:53 PM »
The lunatics are looking to take over the asylum - seriously considering packing my membership in.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/18/secret-tape-reveals-momentum-plot-to-link-with-unite-seize-control-of-labour
It's basically a suicide pact for the Labour Party.

So sad...
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Offline TravisBickle

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4961 on: March 18, 2017, 09:09:55 PM »
The lunatics are looking to take over the asylum - seriously considering packing my membership in.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/18/secret-tape-reveals-momentum-plot-to-link-with-unite-seize-control-of-labour

 No no. Momentum is just a group of ordinary people. Democratic socialists and that. Ordinary people from all walks of life. They believe in the politics of HOPE don't ya know? Young people, old people, white people, brown people. All of them not at all delusional.

 Definitely not a bunch of hardcore, unhingied ideologues. No, sir. Not at all.
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4962 on: March 18, 2017, 09:20:52 PM »
For all the praise that Sadiq Khan now gets, his decision to nominate Corbyn in 2015 raises questions about his judgment IMO.
quite a few nominated him to help 'widen the debate' if memory serves me correct, that Khan didn't want anything to do with Corbyn when campaigning for London mayor says more IMO

I feel the PLP gets something of a tough time from party members.

They probably didn't give him a chance.  But (and it's a big but), they actually knew him, they actually had to work with him. Their opinions need to be afforded more respect on those grounds...
they knew he was shite, that's why they didn't want him to effectively be their boss, had sod all to do with the wing he came from, they knew him being in charge would push them further from power and risk their own jobs

Offline oldfordie

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4963 on: March 18, 2017, 09:36:46 PM »
Competency and ideology are interlinked when it comes to discussion of Corbyn though. Some of Corbyn's supporters argue he is rendered incompetent by those they view as ideologicaly opposed to him, aka the "Blairites", who allegedly undermine him at every turn. If only they kept quiet, he would be doing a lot better.

I am willing to believe there are some within the party who were never willing to give him a chance, and even I felt that those who criticised him in the autumn of 2015 were jumping the gun but I also believe there are now a number of incidents attributable to him that he can, and should be legitimately criticised for, from any wing of the party.
Corbyn supporters are linking competency/ideology as a defense for Corbyn, Corbyns competency cant be defended so question the motives of the people who criticize him instead.

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've have been fooled" Mark Twain on Brexit.

Offline Mag Hull

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4964 on: March 18, 2017, 10:14:34 PM »
No no. Momentum is just a group of ordinary people. Democratic socialists and that. Ordinary people from all walks of life. They believe in the politics of HOPE don't ya know? Young people, old people, white people, brown people. All of them not at all delusional.

 Definitely not a bunch of hardcore, unhingied ideologues. No, sir. Not at all.

Suggest you actually read the article before you comment - opening line:

"A hard-left plot by supporters of Jeremy Corbyn to seize permanent control of the Labour party and consolidate their power by formally joining forces with the super-union Unite can be revealed by the Observer."

Ordinary people in this context my arse.
 
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 10:17:19 PM by Mag Hull »
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Offline Classycara

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4965 on: March 18, 2017, 10:15:54 PM »
The lunatics are looking to take over the asylum - seriously considering packing my membership in.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/18/secret-tape-reveals-momentum-plot-to-link-with-unite-seize-control-of-labour


Momentum is steered by career politicians and activists with a lifetime legacy of constant failure and inferiority complexes.

Of course their eyes widen at the first prospect they've ever had of almost achieving something (in this case, the machinery of a well resourced political party). Unfortunately they're sinking to new depths, eating away at any of their own remaining integrity and parasitically eating away at the past successes of the Labour party.

Seems apt on the eve of our game with the footballing equivalent, Man City

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4966 on: March 18, 2017, 10:32:41 PM »
Just for comparison.. when Osbourne did his budget u turn under milliband, Labour surged to a 10 point lead in the polls....

The same thing now...? Up to a 17 point deficit. 

It has to change.  PLP c*nts, MSM conspiracy, bungling incompetence? Maybe, maybe not.  But who cares.  Look at the evidence.  It's a disaster on an almost unprecedented scale.

Get rid.
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4967 on: March 18, 2017, 11:16:54 PM »
Westminster voting intention:

CON: 41% (+1)
LAB: 28% (+1)
UKIP: 13% (-1)
LDEM: 8% (-)
GRN: 3% (-1)

(via Opinium / 14 - 17 Mar)

Opinium continue to show Labour a bit stronger than most of the other pollsters and the LibDems weaker.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4968 on: March 18, 2017, 11:31:11 PM »
The lunatics are looking to take over the asylum - seriously considering packing my membership in.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/18/secret-tape-reveals-momentum-plot-to-link-with-unite-seize-control-of-labour

Anyone going to defend that?
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Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4969 on: March 18, 2017, 11:48:33 PM »
Some people think they see a pussy cat and that if they stroke it, it will purr and be lovely and docile and return affection.

Others see a cat, yes, but know from bitter experience that it's not a domesticated moggie, it's a leopard, wild in tooth and claw and only after itself.

Spots don't change and all that....but we've been here before, we know this from bitter experience.

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Offline zebenzui

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4970 on: March 18, 2017, 11:49:22 PM »
Anyone going to defend that?

Has there been a single person here who's defended Momentum?

Offline Classycara

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4971 on: March 18, 2017, 11:51:07 PM »
Has there been a single person here who's defended Momentum?

Defending the leader's office and cabal is a tacit defence of Momentum.

Condemning Momentum while pretending the well established links with Corbyn don't exist would be pure cognitive dissonance (or plain politicking/dishonesty)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 11:52:52 PM by Classycara »

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4972 on: March 18, 2017, 11:59:28 PM »
McCluskey's giving out mixed messages. In public, he's calling for tariff-free trading relationships post-Brexit yet behind the scenes, he's aligning himself with people who support a pro-hard Brexit leader.

That being said, his opponent in the Unite leadership race has made comments about immigration that seem only compatible with a hard Brexit too.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 12:13:30 AM by ShakaHislop »

Offline Mag Hull

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4973 on: March 19, 2017, 12:00:18 AM »
Has there been a single person here who's defended Momentum?

Er yes - look at Travis Bickle's post earlier, although in all fairness he was defending the Kum-By-Yah element of Momentum
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Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4974 on: March 19, 2017, 12:00:41 AM »
Has there been a single person here who's defended Momentum?

Momentum and Corbyn are symbiotic, and defence of either is very much synonymous.


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Offline oldfordie

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4975 on: March 19, 2017, 12:06:05 AM »
Er yes - look at Travis Bickle's post earlier, although in all fairness he was defending the Kum-By-Yah element of Momentum
I think he was taking the piss out of Momentum but he will correct me if am wrong.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 12:08:35 AM by oldfordie »
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Offline Mag Hull

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4976 on: March 19, 2017, 12:08:51 AM »
I think he was taking the piss but he will correct me if am wrong.

I wasn't sure myself - hence the Kumbyah reference   :wave
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4977 on: March 19, 2017, 12:10:44 AM »
Er yes - look at Travis Bickle's post earlier, although in all fairness he was defending the Kum-By-Yah element of Momentum

Travis was ripping the piss out of Momentum.
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Offline oldfordie

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4978 on: March 19, 2017, 12:24:38 AM »
I wasn't sure myself - hence the Kumbyah reference   :wave
:)
How can anyone defend them after that awful JC4PM Christmas single.
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Offline Mag Hull

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4979 on: March 19, 2017, 12:29:07 AM »
Travis was ripping the piss out of Momentum.
Christ on a bike - I was confusing him with Show me the Mane!
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Offline Mag Hull

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4980 on: March 19, 2017, 12:32:19 AM »
No no. Momentum is just a group of ordinary people. Democratic socialists and that. Ordinary people from all walks of life. They believe in the politics of HOPE don't ya know? Young people, old people, white people, brown people. All of them not at all delusional.

 Definitely not a bunch of hardcore, unhingied ideologues. No, sir. Not at all.

Happy to say that the operation to remove the rod from up my arse was a success  ;D
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Offline hide5seek

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4981 on: March 19, 2017, 08:37:12 AM »
Hatred was clearly the wrong word so I will retract that. But they dont deserve an easier time from the membership. You cannot put all the blame at Corbyn's door and they have been complicit in the Labour party going away from what its supposed to be.
That doesn't make sense. It's not the PLP fault, its groups like momentum and its supporters who are destroying Labour. 

Offline Sangria

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4982 on: March 19, 2017, 08:54:47 AM »
That doesn't make sense. It's not the PLP fault, its groups like momentum and its supporters who are destroying Labour. 

Anyone remember when McDonnell spoke at one of those rallies and told them to demonstrate at the other MPs' offices?
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Offline Libertine

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4983 on: March 19, 2017, 09:15:12 AM »
Nick Cohen:

As supporters of Jeremy Corbyn read the Observer, could the rest of you talk among yourselves while I speak to them directly?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/19/jeremy-corbyn-labour-threat-party-election-support

Ouch...
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Offline Banquo's Ghost

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4984 on: March 19, 2017, 09:17:01 AM »
Nick Cohen's opinion piece in the Observer is spot on - and rightly, expressed with the anger many of us feel.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/19/jeremy-corbyn-labour-threat-party-election-support

EDIT: Ninja'd!  ;)

Offline Sangria

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4985 on: March 19, 2017, 10:21:01 AM »
Nick Cohen:

As supporters of Jeremy Corbyn read the Observer, could the rest of you talk among yourselves while I speak to them directly?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/19/jeremy-corbyn-labour-threat-party-election-support

Ouch...

Quote
Do you still believe the far-left politicians and journalists who promised that you would have shifted “the Overton window” by now? This cod piece of jargon, purportedly describing how political discourse changes, came from the American right. Appropriately enough, you might think, because far from building a new consensus for previously unthinkable leftist ideas, Corbyn’s victory has allowed the right to run riot. I won’t insult your intelligence by asking whether you also believe the bullshit you were fed about a “genuinely radical” Labour party attracting people who did not vote to turn out for him. There was never any evidence that they were secret socialists. I understand, too, that it would be cruel now to drag up the old boasts about how the left would win back Scottish nationalists now that Corbyn is so unpopular even Scottish Tories can walk all over him.

The comments below are even more painful, epitomising why the Labour party is dead and there is no way back.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline We're not signing...

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4986 on: March 19, 2017, 10:22:42 AM »
We risk the Labour Party being the party of protest against the dreadful Tories...  we risk it's existence being merely that....

We risk being Manchester City to Manchester United (until the oil money came of course).
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Offline killer_heels

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4987 on: March 19, 2017, 10:28:37 AM »
That doesn't make sense. It's not the PLP fault, its groups like momentum and its supporters who are destroying Labour. 

They are but lets not pretend that the eroding of the chances of a Labour government falls completely on Corbyn. One of the reasons that Corbyn even made it onto the ballot paper was because people were tired of the same identikit and bland, status quo answers being put forward by Cooper, Kendall and Burnham.

The PLP had nothing new to offer last time. They were just clinging to the same centrist routine with no deviation. Even Tony Blair today acknowledged that you need to offer something to the electorate that tackles concerns.

These lot had nothing to give. We all knew Tories would vote for Brexit but it was the fact that very few Labour MP's were aware of what their constituents were thinking. They didnt understand people at all and were shocked when we voted Leave.

Even in the coup they put up Owen Smith. Very few had the guts to stand up and put forward passionate arguments or to tackle issues because they were shit scared of their constituents and the general feeling.

Offline Classycara

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4988 on: March 19, 2017, 10:29:01 AM »
Nick Cohen's opinion piece in the Observer is spot on - and rightly, expressed with the anger many of us feel.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/19/jeremy-corbyn-labour-threat-party-election-support


"Next year, as austerity grinds on, as we crash out of the EU to find ourselves with Donald Drumpf as our last ally, they will run candidates against Corbyn and ask for your support. That will be the moment when you need to look at your country and ask whether this was what you wanted when you first cheered “Jeremy” on.

In my respectful opinion, your only honourable response will be to stop being a fucking fool by changing your fucking mind."

Spot on

Offline Sangria

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4989 on: March 19, 2017, 10:36:11 AM »
They are but lets not pretend that the eroding of the chances of a Labour government falls completely on Corbyn. One of the reasons that Corbyn even made it onto the ballot paper was because people were tired of the same identikit and bland, status quo answers being put forward by Cooper, Kendall and Burnham.

The PLP had nothing new to offer last time. They were just clinging to the same centrist routine with no deviation. Even Tony Blair today acknowledged that you need to offer something to the electorate that tackles concerns.

These lot had nothing to give. We all knew Tories would vote for Brexit but it was the fact that very few Labour MP's were aware of what their constituents were thinking. They didnt understand people at all and were shocked when we voted Leave.

Even in the coup they put up Owen Smith. Very few had the guts to stand up and put forward passionate arguments or to tackle issues because they were shit scared of their constituents and the general feeling.

All relevant experience was dismissed as the taint of Blair. The Corbyn supporters talked up his lack of relevant experience as a plus. Ever since the 2015 election, the Corbyn supporters, who've increased in number within the Labour party to the point where it's no longer meaningful to think of the Labour party as anything but their vehicle, have wholeheartedly supported the Corbynite vision of moving away from parliamentary politics and towards social media. Thanks to OMOV, the Labour party isn't defined by arguments or vision, but numbers. And Corbyn has the numbers, so he gets his way.

Of course, in addition to all that, there is also the threat of deselection, and in some cases, actual physical threats. So I'm expecting the centrists to gradually pack it in when they realise it's not worth it, and leave the Labour party to the Corbynites. The tipping point is way, way past.
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline BoRed

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4990 on: March 19, 2017, 10:37:03 AM »
"In my respectful opinion, your only honourable response will be to stop being a fucking fool by changing your fucking mind."

In my respectful opinion, only a fucking fool would think calling someone a fucking fool would make him change his mind.

Then again, we all know he wrote this article for those who already agree with him. Both sides are equally guilty of useless pontificating while Rome burns.

Offline Crosby Wych

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4991 on: March 19, 2017, 10:40:09 AM »
One of the interesting things about the polls is that for all Labour's incompetence, the Lib Dems are also totally failing at gaining any traction. I remember lots of talk of expecting the Lib Dems to pick up lots of central voters due to their anti-Brexit and general central stance. But they're just as irrelevant as they were at the last general election, which shows right now it's not as easy for Labour as "sit in the centre and hope people hate the Torys enough to vote for you". Labour is crying out for a charismatic leader who can unite the party and connect with the public,our own version of Obama.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4992 on: March 19, 2017, 10:45:38 AM »
One of the interesting things about the polls is that for all Labour's incompetence, the Lib Dems are also totally failing at gaining any traction. I remember lots of talk of expecting the Lib Dems to pick up lots of central voters due to their anti-Brexit and general central stance. But they're just as irrelevant as they were at the last general election, which shows right now it's not as easy for Labour as "sit in the centre and hope people hate the Torys enough to vote for you". Labour is crying out for a charismatic leader who can unite the party and connect with the public,our own version of Obama.

I'll vote for Labour when the Momentum lot have cleared off. I voted Labour in 2015 (as I did in all previous elections) thinking it supported my position on Europe. It turned out it actually supported the exact opposite, thanks to a leader elected by that lot, and that lot have re-elected him despite knowing this to be the case. So I have zero trust that the Labour party actually supports any position it says we agree on, until that lot are gone.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline killer_heels

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4993 on: March 19, 2017, 10:46:20 AM »
One of the interesting things about the polls is that for all Labour's incompetence, the Lib Dems are also totally failing at gaining any traction. I remember lots of talk of expecting the Lib Dems to pick up lots of central voters due to their anti-Brexit and general central stance. But they're just as irrelevant as they were at the last general election, which shows right now it's not as easy for Labour as "sit in the centre and hope people hate the Torys enough to vote for you". Labour is crying out for a charismatic leader who can unite the party and connect with the public,our own version of Obama.

Indeed. The Labour PLP is basically waiting for a messiah that doesnt exist. Corbyn or no Corbyn, this bunch of clowns are not getting into power for decades.

Offline killer_heels

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4994 on: March 19, 2017, 10:55:52 AM »
All relevant experience was dismissed as the taint of Blair. The Corbyn supporters talked up his lack of relevant experience as a plus. Ever since the 2015 election, the Corbyn supporters, who've increased in number within the Labour party to the point where it's no longer meaningful to think of the Labour party as anything but their vehicle, have wholeheartedly supported the Corbynite vision of moving away from parliamentary politics and towards social media. Thanks to OMOV, the Labour party isn't defined by arguments or vision, but numbers. And Corbyn has the numbers, so he gets his way.

Of course, in addition to all that, there is also the threat of deselection, and in some cases, actual physical threats. So I'm expecting the centrists to gradually pack it in when they realise it's not worth it, and leave the Labour party to the Corbynites. The tipping point is way, way past.

Labour suffered 2 defeats and one of those were pretty bad. You could argue that people were still sore after the financial crisis to vote for Milliband and Labour but lets not pretend that this wasnt a party that was now out of touch.

When the leadership contest started it became even more clear that the party was out of touch. You have an opportunist in Burnham who changes his views like the wind, a candidate in Cooper who spends most her time with the likes of Phillips, Harman and Creasey shouting about the real issues facing working people like refugees and sexism. Kendall as well is clearly in the wrong party.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4995 on: March 19, 2017, 11:03:11 AM »
One of the interesting things about the polls is that for all Labour's incompetence, the Lib Dems are also totally failing at gaining any traction. I remember lots of talk of expecting the Lib Dems to pick up lots of central voters due to their anti-Brexit and general central stance. But they're just as irrelevant as they were at the last general election, which shows right now it's not as easy for Labour as "sit in the centre and hope people hate the Torys enough to vote for you". Labour is crying out for a charismatic leader who can unite the party and connect with the public,our own version of Obama.

It is an interesting situation with the LibDems, but I think it's more complex for them. By going into coalition with the Tories, they are rightly seen as quislings and thus no alternative for a voter keen on a progressive left choice. After all, they proved that if you vote LibDem, you get a Tory government.

This is the issue with Labour's future: once a party establishes a certain perception, it hangs round the neck for a generation or more. May was right when she told the Tories they were seen as the 'nasty' party and Blair's government would continue to annihilate them until they found a way to avoid the label. In the event, the world recession allowed them to use the 'nasty' label as somewhat of an advantage as people fell for the austerity agenda, and "Call Me Dave" cynically put a bit of a spin on to cement the 2010 election by a hair's breadth.

Labour has struggled for generations to break free of the 'incompetent' party with its heart in the right place but unable to manage the economy (specifically) without everything going badly titsup. The world recession broke the one time the party had built up a very strong competence record, and then the party itself took gleeful sabotage of that record as its new article of faith. Even more astonishingly, we then guaranteed the label of incompetent fuckwits by electing Corbyn and his gang of chancers to lead. Had we elected David Miliband as leader (instead of his brother) stood by our New Labour record of social justice and excellent economic progress, and rammed home the fact that the recession was not caused by Gordon Brown but mad bankers, I firmly believe we would have won in 2015 and none of the current nightmare would be unfolding. But no, we just had to indulge ourselves and prove again we can't run a fucking bath, let alone a political party.

In my view, that will never be forgotten by the electorate, just as the LibDems have condemned themselves to complete irrelevance by that one, idiot decision to be Tory-lites.

But comrades, let us not be downhearted! Diane Abbot is confident Labour is going to win a snap election. Because reasons.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-interview-labour-party-jeremy-corbyn-general-election-a7635706.html
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 11:06:06 AM by Banquo's Ghost »

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4996 on: March 19, 2017, 11:04:35 AM »
One of the interesting things about the polls is that for all Labour's incompetence, the Lib Dems are also totally failing at gaining any traction. I remember lots of talk of expecting the Lib Dems to pick up lots of central voters due to their anti-Brexit and general central stance. But they're just as irrelevant as they were at the last general election, which shows right now it's not as easy for Labour as "sit in the centre and hope people hate the Torys enough to vote for you". Labour is crying out for a charismatic leader who can unite the party and connect with the public,our own version of Obama.

Except they have been picking up votes. Over 30 gains in local elections over the past year, vote increased in every parliamentary by-election (only party to do this) including a big win in Richmond, membership doubled since 2012. True, the polls still haven't moved hugely, but they have increased from a low base of 8% to 10-12% - not enough, but still up to a 50% increase on the last election. It will take time, it's difficult to gain traction from the wipeout at the last election when they were left with only 8 MPs but all the signs are positive.

Right now, Labour is going nowhere. The next election for Labour will be about the scale of the losses - serious or catastrophic. The only way to limit the Tory majority will be for progressives to vote Lib Dem in seats where the Tories are vulnerable and the Lib Dems are the only serious challenger.
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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4997 on: March 19, 2017, 11:15:50 AM »
At least the promised comeback is well underway in Scotland

Scottish Westminster voting intention:

SNP: 47% (-)
CON: 28% (+1)
LAB: 14% (-1)
LDEM: 4% (-)

(via Panelbase)

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4998 on: March 19, 2017, 11:17:48 AM »
The lunatics are looking to take over the asylum - seriously considering packing my membership in.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/18/secret-tape-reveals-momentum-plot-to-link-with-unite-seize-control-of-labour
Why are they called momentum? Doesn't make any sense, Corbyn has never had any momentum since he became Labour leader. The gap is huge in the polls.

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Re: The Labour Party (*)
« Reply #4999 on: March 19, 2017, 11:18:39 AM »
One of the interesting things about the polls is that for all Labour's incompetence, the Lib Dems are also totally failing at gaining any traction. I remember lots of talk of expecting the Lib Dems to pick up lots of central voters due to their anti-Brexit and general central stance. But they're just as irrelevant as they were at the last general election, which shows right now it's not as easy for Labour as "sit in the centre and hope people hate the Torys enough to vote for you". Labour is crying out for a charismatic leader who can unite the party and connect with the public,our own version of Obama.
gained vote share in every byelection post brexit and have actually gained a seat, unlike labour who's vote share has dropped in every by-election and lost a seat they've never lost before (but it was a success when you consider their pathetic poll numbers), and there's the local elections where they are doing well