Author Topic: Roberto Firmino  (Read 1427438 times)

Offline bornandbRED

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13120 on: February 23, 2021, 05:02:04 pm »
What's Alisson done?

Smiling and laughing with his arm around Pickford after the game.

Would you smile and laugh with someone who maimed your mate and has just taken a 22 year old record from you?

Offline Jookie

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13121 on: February 23, 2021, 05:03:12 pm »
I'd be interested in seeing him played as a ten in a 4231 or as one of the more advanced 8s in our current system.

Not sure he has the physicality or mobility to play as an 8 in our current system.

He could play in 4-2-3-1 as a No.10 but that probably means playing Salah as the No.9. Not sure Salah would work wide right with a more traditional No.9 in 4-2-3-1. Think the No.9 would occupy the space Salah currently tries to utilse with diagonal runs in the current system.

I like 4-2-3-1 as a system but you probably add more defensive responsibility to the wide players in the 3 compared to our current fromt 3. Therefore I would guess that someone like Mane would spend slightly more time playing deeper and away from the opposition penalty area in 4-2-3-1 than 4-3-3.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13122 on: February 23, 2021, 06:11:25 pm »
The lad who come up with the line 'give the ball to Bobby and he will score' must be well devo'd.
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Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13123 on: February 23, 2021, 07:08:22 pm »
Bobby not playing well isn't a reason to sell. We want to build a squad and yet sell our better players just because someone hasn't played well.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13124 on: February 23, 2021, 07:50:39 pm »
Bobby not playing well isn't a reason to sell. We want to build a squad and yet sell our better players just because someone hasn't played well.

Thats not always how things work though. We dont have any money, how do we sign new players without selling the ones that dont perform?

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13125 on: February 23, 2021, 07:57:51 pm »
Thats not always how things work though. We dont have any money, how do we sign new players without selling the ones that dont perform?
We've got enough players in and around our squad that are surplus to requirements though? Origi, Wilson, Grujic, etc.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13126 on: February 23, 2021, 08:01:17 pm »
Bobby not playing well isn't a reason to sell. We want to build a squad and yet sell our better players just because someone hasn't played well.

Guess it depends how well you'd think he'd be not being first choice.

Would he come on in games and make an impact? He doesn't strike me as that sort of player personally.

Could he play every so often and be in good form when doing so? Guess that's the main question that Klopp would have to consider, as if he likely can't do that then it's useless keeping him around to pad out the squad.

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13127 on: February 23, 2021, 08:05:04 pm »
Guess it depends how well you'd think he'd be not being first choice.

Would he come on in games and make an impact? He doesn't strike me as that sort of player personally.

Could he play every so often and be in good form when doing so? Guess that's the main question that Klopp would have to consider, as if he likely can't do that then it's useless keeping him around to pad out the squad.
The front 3 & Jota were being rotated when all able to play?

Guess that is down to the individuals and how they will be with idea of coming off the bench. How do we find such players that can fit into that scenario?

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13128 on: February 23, 2021, 08:06:34 pm »
We've got enough players in and around our squad that are surplus to requirements though? Origi, Wilson, Grujic, etc.


Yes, but they dont eat in to our wage bill. This season we will be down significantly in revenue due to Covid and next season no CL.

Considering our financial position, we will have to expect our high earners to contribute significantly. We cannot carry players like those in the squad unless they deliver.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13129 on: February 23, 2021, 08:12:27 pm »
The front 3 & Jota were being rotated when all able to play?

I think Bobby started most games, didn't he?

Quote
Guess that is down to the individuals and how they will be with idea of coming off the bench. How do we find such players that can fit into that scenario?

I think some players are just more impactful in short periods than others. Normally those who are more direct, who run with the ball, who get in positions to shoot and who are relatively efficient in front of goal. I'm not sure that's Bobby's game at all.

Offline Jookie

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13130 on: February 23, 2021, 08:39:09 pm »
Bobby not playing well isn't a reason to sell. We want to build a squad and yet sell our better players just because someone hasn't played well.

Agree with this.

We shouldn't sell a player just because they aren't playing well.

However, we should consider replacing a player if they no longer fit the system, their mid to long term contribution is not commensurate with their performance or we think the loss of form is due to a physical decline that is only going one way. But the final, most important piece, is that you need to be able to replace them with someone better. Better individually, better in the system, better at bringing out the best in others etc.. On top fo this it needs to make financial sense in terms of fees and wages.

In the case of Firmino, or any other player, we will consider the above. I don't think it's anywhere close to being a definite that Firmino can't contribute any more. I think the biggest consideration is whether he can be relied on as a regular starter after this season. I don't think moving his position significantly (back into midfield) or becoming a squad option are likely for various reasons that others have highlighted.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13131 on: February 24, 2021, 12:45:09 am »
Some of the things seen on RAWK over he years would be more than applicable on those sites too.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13132 on: February 24, 2021, 02:17:43 am »
that assist the other day though. Possibly the skill of the year in football, that was utter filth.

Still something in there. Im convinced bobby needs the crowds more than most. He just needs to slot home a no look winner in front of the kop and hear the place go crazy and he'll be a new man again.
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Offline joshlfc94

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13133 on: February 24, 2021, 09:07:51 am »
Bobby not playing well isn't a reason to sell. We want to build a squad and yet sell our better players just because someone hasn't played well.
Players decline you cut your losses and move them on its part and parcel of football.
Can we do replace him and do better? Yes absolutely.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13134 on: February 24, 2021, 09:24:16 am »
Players decline you cut your losses and move them on its part and parcel of football.
Can we do replace him and do better? Yes absolutely.

Not necessarily. You don't just sell every player when they start declining. There's plenty of examples where important players became 'less' important but were still part of the squad. Bobbys got another two and a half years left on his contract but its hard to see anyone paying any particularly substantial fee for him considering his drop off in form and wages he'd want. Might as well keep him around as a back-up/rotation. There's every chance he'll end up adapting his game to become more effective again and do better with playing less often.
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Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13135 on: February 24, 2021, 09:37:04 am »
Gerrard showed a pretty big decline between 2010 and 2013. Then he had arguably one of his best seasons 13/14.

The thing is, we already have issues with our squad depth. I agree that we need a new striker, but if we sell Bobby, I'd be wanting another body. He still brings more to the team than Origi and Shaqiri do, and we can't keep relying on players like them.

Players like him should be gradually phased out, not just sold at the first sign of decline. Otherwise we will have ongoing issues with squad depth.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13136 on: February 24, 2021, 09:39:43 am »
to be honest Id hardly say this is the first sign of decline. Hes looked off form for quite a while now.

Offline a treeless whopper

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13137 on: February 24, 2021, 09:40:38 am »
Not necessarily. You don't just sell every player when they start declining. There's plenty of examples where important players became 'less' important but were still part of the squad. Bobbys got another two and a half years left on his contract but its hard to see anyone paying any particularly substantial fee for him considering his drop off in form and wages he'd want. Might as well keep him around as a back-up/rotation. There's every chance he'll end up adapting his game to become more effective again and do better with playing less often.

In an ideal world yes but in a situation where our wage bill was already high, where spending looks to be very tight and difficult and where its likely we are going to be under even more pressure with loss of CL revenue, I find it difficult to see how we can have a player who will be on between 150k-200k a week having such a role.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13138 on: February 24, 2021, 09:41:32 am »
Mane: "He deserves more credit than me and Mo, for sure," Mane told ESPN Brazil.

"But it is part of football, (people) always seeing the goals scored. But without Bobby, I don't see me and Mo score as many goals as we have, to be honest.

"He makes everything easier for us. Brazil are just lucky to have Firmino. I have always said to Bobby: 'You will have to change your nationality and come to Senegal'.

"For me, that would be a dream. I just love him. I think he is my favourite team-mate."

/
Awaiting the, 'well he's not going to come out and say he's rubbish' responses

Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13139 on: February 24, 2021, 09:45:24 am »
to be honest Id hardly say this is the first sign of decline. Hes looked off form for quite a while now.
You could argue we should have brought in a player like Jota a year earlier than we did.

I've always had this concern that we'd end up having to replace Mane, Bobby, Salah all at the same time. What a front three they've been. It would be easy to replace any of them.

Offline Clayton Bigsby

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13140 on: February 24, 2021, 09:45:55 am »
Mane: "He deserves more credit than me and Mo, for sure," Mane told ESPN Brazil.

"But it is part of football, (people) always seeing the goals scored. But without Bobby, I don't see me and Mo score as many goals as we have, to be honest.

"He makes everything easier for us. Brazil are just lucky to have Firmino. I have always said to Bobby: 'You will have to change your nationality and come to Senegal'.

"For me, that would be a dream. I just love him. I think he is my favourite team-mate."

/
Awaiting the, 'well he's not going to come out and say he's rubbish' responses


But he isn't going to do though is he?

This interview is exactly what i would expect any of our teammates to give. Infact if he was in any way negative he would deserve an internet flogging.

I should also add that it is Mane of the front 3 who is really off a cliff compared to last season. Salah has already scored more, Firmino is par and Sadio is behind
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 09:47:36 am by Clayton Bigsby »

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13141 on: February 24, 2021, 09:45:58 am »
Mane: "He deserves more credit than me and Mo, for sure," Mane told ESPN Brazil.

"But it is part of football, (people) always seeing the goals scored. But without Bobby, I don't see me and Mo score as many goals as we have, to be honest.

"He makes everything easier for us. Brazil are just lucky to have Firmino. I have always said to Bobby: 'You will have to change your nationality and come to Senegal'.

"For me, that would be a dream. I just love him. I think he is my favourite team-mate."

/
Awaiting the, 'well he's not going to come out and say he's rubbish' responses


To be fair the players think Shaqiri has a better left foot than Salah so what the hell do they know!

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13142 on: February 24, 2021, 09:47:47 am »
You could argue we should have brought in a player like Jota a year earlier than we did.

I've always had this concern that we'd end up having to replace Mane, Bobby, Salah all at the same time. What a front three they've been. It would be easy to replace any of them.

Nah I think we got it right. Jota came in last summer, as you expect Salah and Mane still to be productive, then bring in another this summer. What has hurt us is obviously Jota's horrendous injury but also the way Mane has dropped off a cliff, which nobody would have expected.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13143 on: February 24, 2021, 09:48:23 am »
But he isn't going to do though is he?

This interview is exactly what i would expect any of our teammates to give. Infact if he was in any way negative he would deserve an internet flogging
Bit harsh that,not like he would have liked an Instagram post or soemthing

Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13144 on: February 24, 2021, 09:54:28 am »
Nah I think we got it right. Jota came in last summer, as you expect Salah and Mane still to be productive, then bring in another this summer. What has hurt us is obviously Jota's horrendous injury but also the way Mane has dropped off a cliff, which nobody would have expected.
I think Mane still has more to give. I think he's just out of form and not enjoying himself. It doesn't help that the team expect all creativity to come from him.

Bobby on the other hand just looks really leggy and at times it feels like his body can't keep up with his brain. Physically he no longer seems capable of playing the role he has done for us anymore.

Offline LFCobsessive

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13145 on: February 24, 2021, 10:01:16 am »
I saw this coming a long time a go, I knew we would stick with him and was resigned to the fact and thought oh crap we are going to be like this. Fans and the manager saying I don't know what he offers the team in his unselfish play. His pressing from the front etc.
He doesn't press well, is slow, is clumsy, has the weakest shot in the world, grown man who can't use the heft of a leg and foot to twat the ball sometimes.
I'm not looking for scapegoats in this horrible run of form but to me he should have been out since a lot of last season too.
I want LFC to move on from the whole Firmino is untouchable and intrinsic to how we play thing, as much as I've loved the guy, no time for sentimentality but yes YNWA and I do support all players and care about them. But still old managers and coaches for LFC would be like ah fuck this amount of non effort or non skill.
That back heel assist to Salah was cool but it seems flukey more than anything, not consistent.

Get a good number 10 and a real striker or number 9, adapt our way we play up front, got to happen as far as I'm concerned and no matter how much we daly around it still has to happen at some point, do we wait another full season? Things like that is why I worry, not just the here and now and bad games we are playing.
Not forgetting Jota, but add to that, the team needs younger players too for the next step after Klopp in a few years.
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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13146 on: February 24, 2021, 10:02:26 am »
You could argue we should have brought in a player like Jota a year earlier than we did.

I've always had this concern that we'd end up having to replace Mane, Bobby, Salah all at the same time. What a front three they've been. It would be easy to replace any of them.

Id have liked Jota, or ideally someone to play more central, a year earlier, but I dont think it came too late, if that makes sense. The Jota injury obv didnt help though.

Mane and Salah are, unless they push for it hard, going nowhere. Salah is still in top form, and Mane seems to just be going through a bad patch, prob not helped by the team in general going through a bad patch, and prob worse still by Bobby being in such a bad patch.

Bobby on the other hand is the first Id look to replace, and it would be my priority (along with Caleta-Car) this summer. Harsh, maybe, but we have to evolve that front 3 at some point and we really shouldnt leave it until all 3 need doing.


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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13147 on: February 24, 2021, 10:05:55 am »
I saw this coming a long time a go, I knew we would stick with him and was resigned to the fact and thought oh crap we are going to be like this. Fans and the manager saying I don't know what he offers the team in his unselfish play. His pressing from the front etc.
He doesn't press well, is slow, is clumsy, has the weakest shot in the world, grown man who can't use the heft of a leg and foot to twat the ball sometimes.
I'm not looking for scapegoats in this horrible run of form but to me he should have been out since a lot of last season too.

I want LFC to move on from the whole Firmino is untouchable and intrinsic to how we play thing, as much as I've loved the guy, no time for sentimentality but yes YNWA and I do support all players and care about them. But still old managers and coaches for LFC would be like ah fuck this amount of non effort or non skill.
That back heel assist to Salah was cool but it seems flukey more than anything,
not consistent.

Get a good number 10 and a real striker or number 9, adapt our way we play up front, got to happen as far as I'm concerned and no matter how much we daly around it still has to happen at some point, do we wait another full season? Things like that is why I worry, not just the here and now and bad games we are playing.
Not forgetting Jota, but add to that, the team needs younger players too for the next step after Klopp in a few years.

Trent is pretty poor at free kicks. Said it for a long time. One decent free kick a few years ago and the commentators think he's Beckham

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13148 on: February 24, 2021, 10:08:52 am »
I saw this coming a long time a go, I knew we would stick with him and was resigned to the fact and thought oh crap we are going to be like this. Fans and the manager saying I don't know what he offers the team in his unselfish play. His pressing from the front etc.
He doesn't press well, is slow, is clumsy, has the weakest shot in the world, grown man who can't use the heft of a leg and foot to twat the ball sometimes.
I'm not looking for scapegoats in this horrible run of form but to me he should have been out since a lot of last season too.
I want LFC to move on from the whole Firmino is untouchable and intrinsic to how we play thing, as much as I've loved the guy, no time for sentimentality but yes YNWA and I do support all players and care about them. But still old managers and coaches for LFC would be like ah fuck this amount of non effort or non skill.
That back heel assist to Salah was cool but it seems flukey more than anything, not consistent.

Get a good number 10 and a real striker or number 9, adapt our way we play up front, got to happen as far as I'm concerned and no matter how much we daly around it still has to happen at some point, do we wait another full season? Things like that is why I worry, not just the here and now and bad games we are playing.
Not forgetting Jota, but add to that, the team needs younger players too for the next step after Klopp in a few years.


Now this is the kind of stuff I come into this thread for.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13149 on: February 24, 2021, 10:10:23 am »
Now this is the kind of stuff I come into this thread for.

 ;D

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13150 on: February 24, 2021, 10:15:22 am »
Now this is the kind of stuff I come into this thread for.

;D ;D ;D

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13151 on: February 24, 2021, 10:20:36 am »

But he isn't going to do though is he?

This interview is exactly what i would expect any of our teammates to give. Infact if he was in any way negative he would deserve an internet flogging.

I should also add that it is Mane of the front 3 who is really off a cliff compared to last season. Salah has already scored more, Firmino is par and Sadio is behind

Agreed, its the beauty of football. There's ZERO middle ground between, 'deserves more credit than us' and 'he's shit'.

Not like he could have praised him without saying anything drastic, would be utter madness, he HAS TO say he deserves the most credit out of the front 3.

Football interviews are worthless because of this perception that players cant be being honest when questions arise about their teammates, future, contract situation or manager.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 10:22:08 am by RyanBabel19 »

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13152 on: February 24, 2021, 03:16:25 pm »
Back to our subject - this is for Bobby from Trendo



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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13153 on: February 24, 2021, 03:38:29 pm »
As Bill, Bob, Kenny and Rafa would have done, Bobby will be put out to pasture when Jurgen decides its the right time. Unlike the vast majority of fans, Jurgen and his team know exactly what Bobby brings to this team, whether on or off form and until they decide he isn't doing what they require from him and can no longer do it, he will be staying.

He's got years left in him.

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13154 on: February 24, 2021, 08:43:21 pm »
Going to bump my an old post of mine about Jota, as some might think he should play instead of Bobby. The stats show how Jurgen used Diego, and it wasn't as a replacement.

Let's look at this in more detail:

Jota started 5 times in the League. Who was he partnered with as a starter?

4/10  Villa-- Jota, Bobby, Mo. No Sadio
24/10 Shef. Utd-- Jota, Sadio, Bobby, Mo. All 4 started.
8/11 Man City-- Jota, Sadio, Bobby, Mo. All 4 started.
22/11 Leicester-- Jota, Bobby, Sadio. No Mo.
28/11 Brighton-- Jota, Bobby, Mo. No Sadio.

<snip>

Bobby started every time.  And in three of the matches above Jota scored. Shef, Leicester, Brighton. Maybe it was because Bobby was on the pitch. Nah, couldn't have been...
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Offline LFCobsessive

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Re: Roberto Firmino
« Reply #13155 on: Yesterday at 12:04:41 am »
Going to bump my an old post of mine about Jota, as some might think he should play instead of Bobby. The stats show how Jurgen used Diego, and it wasn't as a replacement.

That's kind of disingenuous though really to be fair, as most of us know, because it was/is an awkward situation with Bobby, one of Klopp's most loved and useful players for a good period. So, to just straight drop him without a transitional period would be brutal and seem like unrewarding to Firmino's mentally to the manager I would guess.
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