Author Topic: NBA Discussion  (Read 344715 times)

Offline BER

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7280 on: May 26, 2020, 12:16:30 PM »
I didn't know who Charles Barkley was a few weeks ago, googled him after one of The Last Dance episodes and I'm kind of obsessed with the man now. He's so funny, the fan interaction stories, his golf swing, those big ol women, he's the source of that Jordan laughing meme and all round seems like the nicest dude in the world...

And of course Jordan has fallen out with him because of how thin skinned he is.  ;D

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7281 on: May 26, 2020, 04:03:08 PM »
Yeah Chuck is great and you should definitely check out inside the NBA when the pandemic is over. It's the best sports show on television and even people who don't watch Basketball love that show.

Offline deFacto

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7282 on: May 26, 2020, 04:45:54 PM »
The funniest thing you will see is the exchanges between Chuck and Shaq, especially when Shaq gets upset.

Offline The North Bank

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7283 on: May 26, 2020, 04:54:01 PM »
I didn't know who Charles Barkley was a few weeks ago, googled him after one of The Last Dance episodes and I'm kind of obsessed with the man now. He's so funny, the fan interaction stories, his golf swing, those big ol women, he's the source of that Jordan laughing meme and all round seems like the nicest dude in the world...

And of course Jordan has fallen out with him because of how thin skinned he is.  ;D

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Offline Coolie High

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7284 on: May 26, 2020, 05:02:14 PM »
I really don't think anyone gets close to his talent, never mind his will to win.
For me the greatest sportsman ever.

There are a few who have got close to his talent, LeBron Kobe Hakeem, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, his combination of mental athletic and technical attributes mean he is the greatest of all time but there were few just as or nearly as talented imo.

Greatest sportsman? I donít think we can ever quite judge that properly, I mean what makes him greater than Messi or Pelť?

Offline J-Mc-

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7285 on: May 26, 2020, 05:35:38 PM »
Greatest sportsman? I donít think we can ever quite judge that properly, I mean what makes him greater than Messi or Pelť?

Jordan didnít piss and moan when things didnít go his way on the floor like Messi does, he just turned everything into a revenge mission.

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7286 on: May 26, 2020, 05:38:15 PM »
Jordan didnít piss and moan when things didnít go his way on the floor like Messi does, he just turned everything into a revenge mission.

He just berated his teammates? Messi does the exact same thing, he will moan then go score 4 goals.

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7287 on: May 26, 2020, 07:12:42 PM »
I didn't know who Charles Barkley was a few weeks ago, googled him after one of The Last Dance episodes and I'm kind of obsessed with the man now. He's so funny, the fan interaction stories, his golf swing, those big ol women, he's the source of that Jordan laughing meme and all round seems like the nicest dude in the world...

And of course Jordan has fallen out with him because of how thin skinned he is.  ;D
barkley actually seems to be very secure in who he is, but those best of the inside the nba for him are brilliant, the nappy change, David Blaine attempt, pretending to drink a shaq soda whilst eating churros is all gold

There are a few who have got close to his talent, LeBron Kobe Hakeem, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, his combination of mental athletic and technical attributes mean he is the greatest of all time but there were few just as or nearly as talented imo.

Greatest sportsman? I don’t think we can ever quite judge that properly, I mean what makes him greater than Messi or Pelť?

That you have two footballers is a clue to why he’s greater ;)

Offline J-Mc-

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7288 on: May 26, 2020, 07:13:11 PM »
He just berated his teammates? Messi does the exact same thing, he will moan then go score 4 goals.

He can on occasion yeah, look at the game against us when Robbo got in his face though, started whinging and sulking for the rest of the game.

Jordan wouldnít do it anywhere near as often as Messi.

Itís his mentality that makes him the greatest IMO.

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7289 on: May 26, 2020, 08:07:10 PM »
In terms of transcending their sport and global impact I'd say only Ali and Woods come close to Jordan.

Offline The North Bank

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7290 on: May 26, 2020, 08:28:38 PM »
There are a few who have got close to his talent, LeBron Kobe Hakeem, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, his combination of mental athletic and technical attributes mean he is the greatest of all time but there were few just as or nearly as talented imo.

Greatest sportsman? I donít think we can ever quite judge that properly, I mean what makes him greater than Messi or Pelť?

Messi never won a world cup, Pele never played in Europe. Jordan was the ultimate, even retired for 2 years then came back and bossed a league of elite athletes.
The only one that has a case on him is Ali, he probably had more impact on the world, and he too left the sport for 3 years and came back to be the best, but Jordan managed to dominate in a team sport which has to edge it.

As for the players mentioned above, Kobe had a similar style and drive to Jordan but wasn't as unstoppable when it mattered. Lebron uses his physical prowess to overcome opponents and tends to miss a lot of shots, as incredible as he is, he doesn't give the same level of certainty as Jordan, and I watched both their careers.
Hakeem only won his nba titles when Jordan was playing baseball, and penny and grant hill were good NBA players but never in the elite bracket.

This series concentrated more on the mental aspect of Jordan and his will to win, didn't give enough air time to Jordan's incredible skill level.

I would've liked to see some more of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAr6oAKieHk

 

Offline J-Mc-

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7291 on: May 26, 2020, 09:30:10 PM »
Hereís one for you North Bank.

Jordan compared to Wilt Chamberlain?

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7292 on: May 26, 2020, 09:44:43 PM »
In terms of transcending their sport and global impact I'd say only Ali and Woods come close to Jordan.
pele? Would say senna was pretty close to having that impact, definitely the only racing driver Iíd put in there

Offline Coolie High

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7293 on: May 26, 2020, 09:54:45 PM »
Messi never won a world cup, Pele never played in Europe. Jordan was the ultimate, even retired for 2 years then came back and bossed a league of elite athletes.
The only one that has a case on him is Ali, he probably had more impact on the world, and he too left the sport for 3 years and came back to be the best, but Jordan managed to dominate in a team sport which has to edge it.

As for the players mentioned above, Kobe had a similar style and drive to Jordan but wasn't as unstoppable when it mattered. Lebron uses his physical prowess to overcome opponents and tends to miss a lot of shots, as incredible as he is, he doesn't give the same level of certainty as Jordan, and I watched both their careers.
Hakeem only won his nba titles when Jordan was playing baseball, and penny and grant hill were good NBA players but never in the elite bracket.

This series concentrated more on the mental aspect of Jordan and his will to win, didn't give enough air time to Jordan's incredible skill level.

I would've liked to see some more of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAr6oAKieHk

Pelť never needed to play in Europe, Europe wasnít the be all and end all those days evident by Brazil winning world cups with largely South American based players, and Uraguay also, I donít think the Europe argument is relevant for Pelť.

Neither is the World Cup argument for Messi, CL is the pinnacle for football nowadays and The World Cup is merely a lottery Messi had a great World Cup when he went to the final and never won it, at the same token if George Best was born in another big nation he could have, the sheer amount of nations who play football makes it hard to compare to NBA which is very localised in North America, the pinnacle in Basketball is winning a ring not the Olympics.

I think Jordan and Ali are great but I donít see how you can say they were better sportsmen than Pelť for example, I think whatís more pertinent is the American Sports Media machine which always feels to push people into categories nearing hyperbole for the sake of commercialism, when we talk about great footballers we talk about them in the sphere of being the greatest ever footballer, when people talk about Jordan they say the greatest ever sportsman because of his mentality skill Space Jam and The Last Dance Documentary  ;D, I think we should just leave it to him being the best  basketball player as Iíd have a hard time arguing heís better than another person in a sport like Hockey for example I probably barely watch or understand.

Onto Jordan we were talking about skill and I donít think the statement that there was no players as skilled or nearly as skilled as him rings true, Kobe had better dribbling ball handles and finesse but lacked his elite athleticism and probably all round IQ, LeBron is just as athletic and nearly just as skilled in terms of all round but doesnít have the mentality, Hakeem was the most skilful big man of all time, the other two were pretenders but they werenít really any much less skilled than Kobe they were unluckily marred with injuries.

Jordan just managed to combine all of that together into the greatest ever package, but itís a bit like saying there wasnít any players as skilled as Cristiano Ronaldo, obviously there have been, some even more so, but overall they donít combine all the other things that takes to make a truly greatest of all time player.

Offline The North Bank

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7294 on: May 26, 2020, 09:56:56 PM »
Hereís one for you North Bank.

Jordan compared to Wilt Chamberlain?

Never saw Wilt Chamberlain, he did get 100 points in a game which is ridiculous. Anotther player that seems to get overlooked in the greatest player category is Kareem Abdul Jabar, 6 time Nba champion and the leading points scorer in Nba history. I think these centres who were point scoring machines don't get mentioned in the elite bracket because of their size, Shaq was another one. The likes of Magic Johnson, Larry Bird ,Lebron, Kobe would always be considered more skillful, and then Jordan was on another level altogether. Special mention to Kevin Durant, Stephen curry and Allen Iverson, incredible players in their own right.

Offline The North Bank

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7295 on: May 26, 2020, 10:01:40 PM »
Pelť never needed to play in Europe, Europe wasnít the be all and end all those days evident by Brazil winning world cups with largely South American based players, and Uraguay also, I donít think the Europe argument is relevant for Pelť.

Neither is the World Cup argument for Messi, CL is the pinnacle for football nowadays and The World Cup is merely a lottery Messi had a great World Cup when he went to the final and never won it, at the same token if George Best was born in another big nation he could have, the sheer amount of nations who play football makes it hard to compare to NBA which is very localised in North America, the pinnacle in Basketball is winning a ring not the Olympics.

I think Jordan and Ali are great but I donít see how you can say they were better sportsmen than Pelť for example, I think whatís more pertinent is the American Sports Media machine which always feels to push people into categories nearing hyperbole for the sake of commercialism, when we talk about great footballers we talk about them in the sphere of being the greatest ever footballer, when people talk about Jordan they say the greatest ever sportsman because of his mentality skill Space Jam and The Last Dance Documentary  ;D, I think we should just leave it to him being the best  basketball player as Iíd have a hard time arguing heís better than another person in a sport like Hockey for example I probably barely watch or understand.

Onto Jordan we were talking about skill and I donít think the statement that there was no players as skilled or nearly as skilled as him rings true, Kobe had better dribbling ball handles and finesse but lacked his elite athleticism and probably all round IQ, LeBron is just as athletic and nearly just as skilled in terms of all round but doesnít have the mentality, Hakeem was the most skilful big man of all time, the other two were pretenders but they werenít really any much less skilled than Kobe they were unluckily marred with injuries.

Jordan just managed to combine all of that together into the greatest ever package, but itís a bit like saying there wasnít any players as skilled as Cristiano Ronaldo, obviously there have been, some even more so, but overall they donít combine all the other things that takes to make a truly greatest of all time player.

I love Pele and I love Messi, but probably because I never saw Pele play live Im having to take other people's word for his talent.
Even if CL is the hardest thing now, if Jordan played football hed have made sure he won a world cup to end all discussion, I was desperate for Messi to win a world cup just to reinforce his claim as the greatest ever, and lets be honest, hes never won anything with argentina. Obviously far harder to dominate a team sport with 11 players than with 5 (even though Maradona managed it).
You're probably right, even comparing different eras in the same sport is tough, let alone different eras in different sports.
I do think the obsession with Jordan's mentality is overshadowing how good he was, the man could fly.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 10:03:29 PM by The North Bank »

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7296 on: May 26, 2020, 10:04:29 PM »
Jordan only played in America. Not enough people or countries play the sport for him to be the greatest sportsman of all time in my opinion.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline Buggy Eyes Alfredo

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7297 on: May 26, 2020, 11:56:44 PM »

Jordan only played in America. Not enough people or countries play the sport for him to be the greatest sportsman of all time in my opinion.

What about that time Jordan played in Barcelona?      ;)

Offline skipper757

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7298 on: May 27, 2020, 12:46:04 AM »
The other thing that I found astonishing, most of the play off games Jordan was involved in seem to be ending with the winning team getting around 80/90 points, and he was still getting 30/40 points a game.
Nowadays to win a game you probably need 120 points, teams get to 80/90 points with a quarter left to play, so players getting 40 points doesn't amount to 50% of the team's scoring like when Jordan was playing, at a time when teams were clearly far better defensively and the league was more physical and you could get away with a lot more. These days any contact is a foul, If he played now then 60 points a game would be his average. That's why hes the best ever.


The eras are really different it's interesting.  The teams that really stood out outside of the Bulls were teams that had scoring bigs and famous inside-outside combos (Hardaway-Shaq, Olajuwon-Drexler, Payton-Kemp, Stockton-Malone, etc).  What's interesting looking through the stats is that scoring fell a lot from the early 90s to the late 90s and basically held until about 5 years ago when both pace and 3-pt shooting went through the roof.  The way games were called and flowed was something else.

In general, been binge watching quite a bit of SB Nation content on YouTube recently.

They have a ton of featured playlists on American sports (and a few footy ones) of videos ranging from 10 minutes to far longer on a variety of topics:
-Collapse (teams that were destined for continued greatness but fell apart)
-The Worst (the worst of a particular type of game/match)
-Untitled (legendary players won never won a championship)
-Beef (players that famous didn't get along)
-Weird rules
-Rewinder (a famous moment and the lead up to them)
-Chart Party/Dorktown (statistics driven videos)

A ton of NBA content spread across these playlists across.  "Beef" is basically dominated by the NBA (the usual names you'd suspect).  "Chart Party" had one that highlighted just how ridiculous the Rockets' three-point shooting has become.  But one of the really interesting ones was a story of Stockton/Malone being "Untitled" and all the hard-fought losses they had to western conference foes before coming so close to beating the Bulls but never getting over the line.

I saw someone post a lineup of players of that era who never won a championship (the size would be out of place in today's NBA but fun to speculate):
-Stockton, Miller, Barkley, Malone, Ewing

If Gary Payton hadn't successfully ring-chased with the Lakers at the end of his career, he could be the second ball handler in that team.  ;D

Can throw in Penny Hardaway, players from some of those Cavs' teams etc.  A lot of them suffered heartache at the hands of Jordan at some point or another.
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Offline GreatEx

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7299 on: May 27, 2020, 05:56:03 AM »
Jordan only played in America. Not enough people or countries play the sport for him to be the greatest sportsman of all time in my opinion.

Sarcasm? Basketball is one of the most popular world sports; although the UK is one of the least basketball-mad countries on earth so I wouldn't put it past a Brit to call it an America-only sport and mean it. :D

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7300 on: May 27, 2020, 07:13:18 AM »
Jordan never played in EuroLeague so there's a huge questionmark on his CV. Maybe he wouldn't have done it against Zalgiris Kaunas on a cold wet Wednesday night.

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7301 on: May 27, 2020, 07:35:19 AM »
pele? Would say senna was pretty close to having that impact, definitely the only racing driver Iíd put in there

I think more of your average joes on the street will have heard of or could recognise Michael Jordan over Pele or Senna.

Offline AndyMuller

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7302 on: May 27, 2020, 09:07:22 AM »
Jordan, Ali and Woods are the holy trinity.

Offline Mr Mingebag Squid

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7303 on: May 27, 2020, 09:15:06 AM »
As some one who has only started watching basketball this year (And only the Worcester Wolves!) I'm a little slow on the uptake - but Michael Jordan was a fucking machine!
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Offline J-Mc-

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7304 on: May 27, 2020, 10:12:02 AM »
Sarcasm? Basketball is one of the most popular world sports; although the UK is one of the least basketball-mad countries on earth so I wouldn't put it past a Brit to call it an America-only sport and mean it. :D

Which annoys me as Iím dying to get back into playing.
Havenít played in almost 10 years but loved it back in school.

30 this year so if anyone knows anywhere in Liverpool that needs a very rusty player, give me a shout! 😂

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7305 on: May 27, 2020, 10:31:06 AM »
Which annoys me as Iím dying to get back into playing.
Havenít played in almost 10 years but loved it back in school.

30 this year so if anyone knows anywhere in Liverpool that needs a very rusty player, give me a shout! 😂

I don't even know where there's any courts in Liverpool never mind anyone to play with.

Offline J-Mc-

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7306 on: May 27, 2020, 10:38:15 AM »
I don't even know where there's any courts in Liverpool never mind anyone to play with.

Thereís one down in the baltic triangle I think, apart from that, youíre looking at the indoor sport halls like Everton and Peter Lloyds.

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7307 on: May 27, 2020, 10:38:33 AM »
Sarcasm? Basketball is one of the most popular world sports; although the UK is one of the least basketball-mad countries on earth so I wouldn't put it past a Brit to call it an America-only sport and mean it. :D

I am no Brit my friend. It's an American sport that some other countries play as a third, fourth, fifth or sixth sport.
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Offline The North Bank

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7308 on: May 27, 2020, 11:11:03 AM »
Which annoys me as Iím dying to get back into playing.
Havenít played in almost 10 years but loved it back in school.

30 this year so if anyone knows anywhere in Liverpool that needs a very rusty player, give me a shout! 😂

Same here, Havent played in about 15 years, and really want to after watching the last dance.

Incidentally, back in the days, in the 90s, I was a really good basketball player, ill never get back to those levels but id like to play again.

FIBA used to hold 3 on 3 basketball tournaments around London. Anyone can enter, for a small fee , just needed 3 people and a team name, 3 matches and youre in the final. I entered with my brother and a mate, we won, even though I got stung by a wasp in the final , I showed some of that Jordan grit and played on one handed!
The prize was an NBA shirt of choice to each winner, we thought there's no point getting two Jordan shirts, so I got a Jordan and a shawn Kemp shirt for my brother and myself. it was 1997 and Kemp was a star then. Still got both shirts, still in mint condition.


« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 11:14:41 AM by The North Bank »

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7309 on: May 27, 2020, 12:51:20 PM »
Same here, Havent played in about 15 years, and really want to after watching the last dance.

Incidentally, back in the days, in the 90s, I was a really good basketball player, ill never get back to those levels but id like to play again.

FIBA used to hold 3 on 3 basketball tournaments around London. Anyone can enter, for a small fee , just needed 3 people and a team name, 3 matches and youre in the final. I entered with my brother and a mate, we won, even though I got stung by a wasp in the final , I showed some of that Jordan grit and played on one handed!
The prize was an NBA shirt of choice to each winner, we thought there's no point getting two Jordan shirts, so I got a Jordan and a shawn Kemp shirt for my brother and myself. it was 1997 and Kemp was a star then. Still got both shirts, still in mint condition.




That story was wild from start to finish
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Offline The North Bank

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7310 on: May 27, 2020, 02:19:04 PM »
That story was wild from start to finish

Ive got more.

Offline Lastrador

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7311 on: May 27, 2020, 11:19:13 PM »
Why are people comparing Messi and Pele to Jordan? The only football player you can compare him in terms of talent and winning mentality is Maradona.

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7312 on: May 27, 2020, 11:51:04 PM »
Why are people comparing Messi and Pele to Jordan? The only football player you can compare him in terms of talent and winning mentality is Maradona.
Jordan is more like Ronaldo for me both ruthless winners but not exactly ideal teammates

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7313 on: May 28, 2020, 12:15:49 AM »
Jordan is more like Ronaldo for me both ruthless winners but not exactly ideal teammates
yeah thatís the best comparison, maradona far too flawed as a person and was liked by his teammates

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7314 on: May 28, 2020, 02:16:40 PM »
https://twitter.com/mpjr/status/1265702305086664709?s=21

Fucking fool, liked by Chris Broussard and many other god fuckwits

Offline Ray K

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7315 on: May 28, 2020, 03:10:28 PM »
You cant compare Jordan to Maradona.  There's no chance that Maradona would come across a hotel room of his teammates with cocaine flying around all over the place and saying 'Nope, not for me lads, I'm off to my own room to watch some telly'.
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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7316 on: May 30, 2020, 08:43:21 AM »
I agree with those who say Jordan is the biggest sports figure ever. And that's by quite a lot too imo. No disrespect to Senna, Maradona, Messi, Federer, Ali and others who were all great in what they did. It just shows how huge Jordan is.

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7317 on: May 30, 2020, 09:19:43 AM »
Biggest and best are two different things though. David Beckham is one of the biggest footballers of all time.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7318 on: May 30, 2020, 10:22:20 AM »
The greatest ever ...if you are from the States Jordan will always be part of the discussion but depending on your generation many think LeBron is better. Of course you will have Barkley laugh at you and say no way would Jordan ever allow his team to lose half a dozen NBA Finals. Then there is the likes of Wilt who stated Jordan was one hell of a player but if he came into the paint during his era he would get crushed and if he dared to do his theatrical dunks in a game the opposition / coach would bench him for disrespecting the game. The greatest ever basketball player, yes Jordan would be in the discussion but compare him to Ali is crazy. Ali was probably the greatest ever boxer during a time where millions of his own countrymen were baying for his blood when he had to take the fight against his own government. To pretty much step away from the sport he loved as many were trying to throw him into the jail, lead the cause for civil rights and eventually come back and reign in the ring again. Heads and shoulders the greatest ever. I am not even a boxing fan either.

PS - I barely remember Ali as was just a kid when he was finishing his career but the one thing I do clearly remember is the yearning for the Great White Hopes that were suppose to reclaim the heavyweight title. That was still going on in the 70s and 80s even, a not so secret desire to see a white man be Champion again. Quite sickening really and way more obvious then than now (considering what you see going on in the States it still seems rampant unfortunately). For Ali to face that every day and to become so loved by many tells you something.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 10:33:29 AM by fowlermagic »
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Offline The North Bank

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Re: NBA Discussion
« Reply #7319 on: May 30, 2020, 11:41:39 AM »
I would go with Jordan being the best ever sportsman but Ali the greatest sporting icon. On their sporting careers alone Jordan is better , but Ali is far more than that. Never mind taking on the destroit pistons, he took on the world.