Author Topic: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick  (Read 2290985 times)

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54880 on: June 17, 2019, 03:04:01 AM »
6 years?

He knows it’s either 4 or 8 right? Unless he’s planning on being re-elected then going to jail halfway through?

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54881 on: June 17, 2019, 03:35:23 AM »
6 years?

He knows it’s either 4 or 8 right? Unless he’s planning on being re-elected then going to jail halfway through?

I think it's more important to focus on the veiled threat to argue he should stay as president because 'my people demand it'. This is the third or fourth time he has put that idea out there to test the response.

Mussolini Playbook, Penultimate Chapter, 'Dictatorship by Acclamation" pages 37-50.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54882 on: June 17, 2019, 03:47:50 AM »
I think it's more important to focus on the veiled threat to argue he should stay as president because 'my people demand it'. This is the third or fourth time he has put that idea out there to test the response.

Mussolini Playbook, Penultimate Chapter, 'Dictatorship by Acclamation" pages 37-50.

The last chapter is quite disturbing...where he is beaten to death and strung up by his feet on display. All the winning...
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54883 on: June 17, 2019, 10:23:40 AM »
Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump
A poll should be done on which is the more dishonest and deceitful newspaper, the Failing New York Times or the Amazon (lobbyist) Washington Post! They are both a disgrace to our Country, the Enemy of the People, but I just can’t seem to figure out which is worse? The good.....

Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump
.....news is that at the end of 6 years, after America has been made GREAT again and I leave the beautiful White House (do you think the people would demand that I stay longer? KEEP AMERICA GREAT), both of these horrible papers will quickly go out of business & be forever gone!
Okay, I hate seeing the phrase ‘genuine question’ because it’s usually anything but, but here is a genuine question on which I’d appreciate an American view, once you’re up:

What is going on with those two tweets?  As far as I can gather, after decades of exposure to American culture, Americans value two things above almost everything else - free speech and constitutional limits on power.  You all learn about them at school, you all value them, and a lot of the time you seem to think only America has them and they’re what makes your country greater than everyone else’s.  You don’t see them as a partisan issue and you never have - they’re about individual rights.  There’s almost nothing more fundamental to your idea of your country.

Trump is attacking both of them.  He wouldn’t be doing it if he wasn’t certain it would play well.  What am I missing that means this is acceptable?  Have I misunderstood how America sees itself all these years?  Or is there (now) something more fundamental that takes precedence?  I’ve got to say I’m starting to worry that you might not be able to turn this round.

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54884 on: June 17, 2019, 10:30:24 AM »
Trump is attacking both of them.  He wouldn’t be doing it if he wasn’t certain it would play well.

There's your problem, right there. You're presuming a level of analysis that simply doesn't exist.

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54885 on: June 17, 2019, 10:44:52 AM »
There's your problem, right there. You're presuming a level of analysis that simply doesn't exist.
I can see that.  But my deeper point is really about whether I’ve misunderstood America - if I haven’t, I’d expect widespread revulsion on all sides at the very suggestion that he could breach term limits.  I’m not at all confident that that’s what I’m going to see.

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54886 on: June 17, 2019, 10:50:47 AM »
Okay, I hate seeing the phrase ‘genuine question’ because it’s usually anything but, but here is a genuine question on which I’d appreciate an American view, once you’re up:

What is going on with those two tweets?  As far as I can gather, after decades of exposure to American culture, Americans value two things above almost everything else - free speech and constitutional limits on power.  You all learn about them at school, you all value them, and a lot of the time you seem to think only America has them and they’re what makes your country greater than everyone else’s.  You don’t see them as a partisan issue and you never have - they’re about individual rights.  There’s almost nothing more fundamental to your idea of your country.

Trump is attacking both of them.  He wouldn’t be doing it if he wasn’t certain it would play well.  What am I missing that means this is acceptable?  Have I misunderstood how America sees itself all these years?  Or is there (now) something more fundamental that takes precedence?  I’ve got to say I’m starting to worry that you might not be able to turn this round.

I used to think that those were core American values, too. But it seems they are subordinate to the big 3: God, Guns and Triggerin' the Libs.

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54887 on: June 17, 2019, 10:58:02 AM »
I can see that.  But my deeper point is really about whether I’ve misunderstood America - if I haven’t, I’d expect widespread revulsion on all sides at the very suggestion that he could breach term limits.  I’m not at all confident that that’s what I’m going to see.

My (very rough) guess is there are thirds. One third are his base, they feel he can do whatever he wants. One third are the informed populace, they think he can't. One third don't give a fuck.

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54888 on: June 17, 2019, 11:01:33 AM »
I can see that.  But my deeper point is really about whether I’ve misunderstood America - if I haven’t, I’d expect widespread revulsion on all sides at the very suggestion that he could breach term limits.  I’m not at all confident that that’s what I’m going to see.

He`s an animal. Everything he does is on instinct (his famous massive gut) through the prism of his ego. He thinks he`s infallible & is simply dumbfounded that everyone else does not see him that way.

Of course now he has his base of 33%, some people call it a cult, that don`t seem to care what he does. It would be an interesting test of their loyalty if he really pushes back against the constitution. Fortunately, at the moment, there are larger numbers who already oppose him even before he tries to become a true authoritarian dictator; Democrats, Never-Trumpers, most independents, some libertarians.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54889 on: June 17, 2019, 11:01:42 AM »
I think it's more important to focus on the veiled threat to argue he should stay as president because 'my people demand it'. This is the third or fourth time he has put that idea out there to test the response.

Yep. That was the first thing I saw. Straight out of the fascist playbook

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54890 on: June 17, 2019, 11:12:23 AM »
Okay, I hate seeing the phrase ‘genuine question’ because it’s usually anything but, but here is a genuine question on which I’d appreciate an American view, once you’re up:

What is going on with those two tweets?  As far as I can gather, after decades of exposure to American culture, Americans value two things above almost everything else - free speech and constitutional limits on power.  You all learn about them at school, you all value them, and a lot of the time you seem to think only America has them and they’re what makes your country greater than everyone else’s.  You don’t see them as a partisan issue and you never have - they’re about individual rights.  There’s almost nothing more fundamental to your idea of your country.

Trump is attacking both of them.  He wouldn’t be doing it if he wasn’t certain it would play well.  What am I missing that means this is acceptable?  Have I misunderstood how America sees itself all these years?  Or is there (now) something more fundamental that takes precedence?  I’ve got to say I’m starting to worry that you might not be able to turn this round.
I am not an American, but I lived there for 7 years until last summer. I don't know if the average American ever truly believed in these things. They are part their national mythology, that's all. Some do truly believe them, but clearly, they are in the minority. Mostly, people believe in them when it suits their aims. After all, how else can we explain the turnaround from Obama to Trump!?

The real gatekeepers of democracy, Congress, has abandoned any notions of enforcing limits on power, because it suits them. It is troubling, but hardy unique to the US. What makes it a bit different is the national mythology that the US is the greatest/best/example democracy in/to the whole world.

As for free speech: I think the concept is poorly understood by most ordinary Americans. I regularly come across Americans complaining that their 'free speech rights' are being violated because a forum operator or moderator moderates a post or bans their account. They even do this with non-US based forums, where the US Constitution could not possibly operate. But this besides the point: the Constitution dictates that, "Government "shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech". For some reason, Americans often think this applies to websites, and even foreign websites, such as RAWK.

I do not mean to single out the US. Every country has its own national mythologies. One such mythology is overriding good sense in the UK right now: that Britannia is Great, continues to 'rule the waves', still has an Empire, and will bend potential trading partners to our will.

So, most voters in most countries are thick. And most politicians in most countries are assholes. I am not really surprised by anything; just disappointed.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 10:09:21 PM by Jiminy Cricket »

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54891 on: June 17, 2019, 11:14:21 AM »
He`s an animal. Everything he does is on instinct (his famous massive gut) through the prism of his ego. He thinks he`s infallible & is simply dumbfounded that everyone else does not see him that way.

Of course now he has his base of 33%, some people call it a cult, that don`t seem to care what he does. It would be an interesting test of their loyalty if he really pushes back against the constitution. Fortunately, at the moment, there are larger numbers who already oppose him even before he tries to become a true authoritarian dictator; Democrats, Never-Trumpers, most independents, some libertarians.
Unfortunately, history demonstrates that a majority being set against fascists does not necessarily win out.

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54892 on: June 17, 2019, 11:32:48 AM »


We all know Trump hasn't read the Mueller report. We know he never reads his briefing reports. But what do we think is the last item longer than 2 pages has he read?
Maybe it's the big seller from his favourite author, Tom Wolfe


I can't imagine he's ever read anything related to his real estate business - his lawyers tells him stuff and he signs a contract. he certainly never read any of the books that were ghostwritten for him.

Would he have read much in college? He seems to have been a pretty mediocre student, so maybe, maybe not.  High school probably, before his brain started to get addled with fast food and prescription drugs.

I think Sam Bee is right. He's functionally illiterate.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54893 on: June 17, 2019, 01:10:20 PM »
6 years?

He knows it’s either 4 or 8 right? Unless he’s planning on being re-elected then going to jail halfway through?

Maybe he's rounded his time so far down to two years and thus it would be six years left with him assuming he will win a 2nd term.

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54894 on: June 17, 2019, 02:10:59 PM »
I used to think that those were core American values, too. But it seems they are subordinate to the big 3: God, Guns and Triggerin' the Libs.

Aye
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54895 on: June 17, 2019, 02:11:28 PM »
My (very rough) guess is there are thirds. One third are his base, they feel he can do whatever he wants. One third are the informed populace, they think he can't. One third don't give a fuck.

Aye aye!
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54896 on: June 17, 2019, 02:14:31 PM »
I used to think that those were core American values, too. But it seems they are subordinate to the big 3: God, Guns and Triggerin' the Libs.

Just think "What benefits me the most" that's the american core value.

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54897 on: June 17, 2019, 02:23:12 PM »
My (very rough) guess is there are thirds. One third are his base, they feel he can do whatever he wants. One third are the informed populace, they think he can't. One third don't give a fuck.

Actually, it is 50% that don't vote and don't care usually.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54898 on: June 17, 2019, 02:29:58 PM »
I am not an American, but I lived there for 7 years until last summer. I don't know if the average American ever truly believed in these things. They are part their national mythology, that's all. Some do truly believe them, but clearly, they are in the minority. Mostly, people believe in them when it suits their aims. After all, how else can we explain the turnaround from Obama to Trump!?

The real gatekeepers of democracy, Congress, has abandoned any notions of enforcing limits on power, because it suits them. It is troubling, but hardy unique to the US. What makes it a bit different is the national mythology that the US is the greatest/best/example democracy in/to the whole world.

As for free speech: I think the concept is poorly understood by most ordinary Americans. I regularly come across Americans complaining that their 'free speech rights' are being violated because a forum operator or moderator moderates a post or bans their account. They even do this with non-US based forums, where the US Constitution could not possibly operate. But this besides the point: the Constitution dictates that, "Government "shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech". For some reason, Americans often think this applies to websites, and even foreign websites, such as RAWK.

I do not mean to single out the US. Every country has its own national mythologies. One such mythology is overriding good sense in the UK right now: that Britannia is Great, continues to 'rule the waves', still has an Empire, and will bend potential trading partners to our will.

So, most voters in most countries are think. And most politicians in most countries are assholes. I am not really surprised by anything; just disappointed.

That is so sane.
Mythology is the correct word. Every country and peoples have their own.

Obama's presidency tested that mythology with the brute reality of America. The tea party wrapped itself in mythology, but we know what really motivated them. They used mythology as cover.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54899 on: June 17, 2019, 02:35:25 PM »
Just think "What benefits me the most" that's the american core value.

That explains GOP politicians not wanting to shed light on Russian $$$ in campaigns..

https://thebulwark.com/the-old-school-grift-of-mitch-mcconnell-and-elaine-chao/
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54900 on: June 17, 2019, 02:41:47 PM »
6 years? Does he think he’s already in his second term? Haha

Or this isn’t real and I’m being whooshed.

No. He means he wants a third term. 

After that? Well his family is clearly so good at the job they shouldn't go to the expense of elections anymore and so should just do away with them.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54901 on: June 17, 2019, 04:21:06 PM »
Maybe he's rounded his time so far down to two years and thus it would be six years left with him assuming he will win a 2nd term.
Yes, since he started late Jan 2017 think that's what he's going for there.

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54902 on: June 17, 2019, 07:51:20 PM »
Bad day for Paul Manafort and other Trump folks expecting pardons.


 SCOTUS rules that states can charge them despite federal charges.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/17/politics/supreme-court-double-jeopardy-clause-case/index.html
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54903 on: June 17, 2019, 08:33:54 PM »
Actually, it is 50% that don't vote and don't care usually.

I know far too many of those people, including family members. It's concerning to say the least.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54904 on: June 17, 2019, 08:53:41 PM »
My (very rough) guess is there are thirds. One third are his base, they feel he can do whatever he wants. One third are the informed populace, they think he can't. One third don't give a fuck.

These days, that formula is true for almost every issue except climate change and 'nucular' disarmament.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54905 on: June 17, 2019, 09:37:44 PM »
Listened to a podcast yesterday. It's a republican who was extremely annoyed with Trump. He is doing the opposite of what he said he would do when he was a candidate. Trumpy has increased the debt and he has inflated the financial bubble.

Which shouldn't be a surprise. Trumpy is all about himself, about making him look good. He will sacrifice anything and everything to make it happen.

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54906 on: June 17, 2019, 09:50:36 PM »
Listened to a podcast yesterday. It's a republican who was extremely annoyed with Trump. He is doing the opposite of what he said he would do when he was a candidate. Trumpy has increased the debt and he has inflated the financial bubble.

That's fairly typical Republican. It's what Dubya did.

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54907 on: June 17, 2019, 09:57:37 PM »
John Oliver made the case for impeachment today if anybody saw it.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54908 on: June 17, 2019, 10:34:52 PM »
Reuters
Justice Uncle Thomas urges U.S. Supreme Court to feel free to reverse precedents
 By Jonathan Stempel 
1 hr ago


(Reuters) - Justice Clarence Thomas on Monday urged the U.S. Supreme Court to feel less bound to upholding precedent, advancing a view that if adopted by enough of his fellow justices could result in more past decisions being overruled, perhaps including the landmark 1973 Roe v. Wade decision that legalized abortion nationwide.

Writing in a gun possession case over whether the federal government and states can prosecute someone separately for the same crime, Thomas said the court should reconsider its standard for reviewing precedents.

Thomas said the nine justices should not uphold precedents that are "demonstrably erroneous," regardless of whether other factors supported letting them stand.

"When faced with a demonstrably erroneous precedent, my rule is simple: We should not follow it," wrote Thomas, who has long expressed a greater willingness than his colleagues to overrule precedents.

In a concurring opinion, which no other justice joined, Thomas referred to the court's 1992 decision in Planned Parenthood v. Casey, which reaffirmed Roe and said states cannot place an undue burden on the constitutional right to an abortion recognized in the Roe decision. Thomas, a member of the court at the time, dissented from the Casey ruling.

Thomas, 70, joined the court in 1991 as an appointee of Republican President George H.W. Bush. Thomas is its longest-serving current justice.

The court now has a 5-4 conservative majority, and Thomas is among its most conservative justices.

He demonstrated his willingness to abandon precedent in February when he wrote that the court should reconsider its landmark 1964 New York Times v. Sullivan ruling that made it harder for public officials to win libel lawsuits.

"Thomas says legal questions have objectively correct answers, and judges should find them regardless of whether their colleagues or predecessors found different answers," said Jonathan Entin, a law professor at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland. "Everyone is concerned about this because they're thinking about Roe v. Wade."

COURT DIVISIONS

The Thomas opinion focused on "stare decisis," a Latin term referring to the legal principle that U.S. courts should not overturn precedents without a special reason.

While stare decisis (pronounced STAR-ay deh-SY-sis) has no formal parameters, justices deciding whether to uphold precedents often look at such factors as whether they work, enhance stability in the law, are part of the national fabric or promote reliance interests, such as in contract cases.

In 2000, conservative then-Chief Justice William Rehnquist left intact the landmark 1966 Miranda v. Arizona ruling, which required police to advise people in custody of their rights, including the rights to remain silent and have a lawyer.

Writing for a 7-2 majority, Rehnquist wrote that regardless of concerns about Miranda's reasoning, "the principles of stare decisis weigh heavily against overruling it now." Thomas joined Justice Antonin Scalia's dissent from that decision. But even Scalia, a conservative who died in 2016, had a different view of stare decisis.

In a widely quoted comment, Scalia once told a Thomas biographer, Ken Foskett, that Thomas "doesn't believe in stare decisis, period," and that "if a constitutional line of authority is wrong, he would say let's get it right. I wouldn't do that."

Stare decisis has also split the current court, including last month when in a 5-4 decision written by Thomas the justices overruled a 1979 precedent that had allowed states to be sued by private parties in courts of other states.

Justice Stephen Breyer, a member of the court's liberal wing, dissented, faulting the majority for overruling "a well-reasoned decision that has caused no serious practical problems." Citing the 1992 Casey ruling, Breyer said the May decision "can only cause one to wonder which cases the Court will overrule next."

Thomas said the court should "restore" its jurisprudence relating to precedents to ensure it exercises "mere judgment" and focuses on the "correct, original meaning" of laws it interprets.

"In our constitutional structure, our rule of upholding the law's original meaning is reason enough to correct course," Thomas wrote.

Thomas also said demonstrably erroneous decisions should not be "elevated" over federal statutes, as well as the Constitution, merely because they are precedents.

"That's very different from what the Court does today," said John McGinnis, a law professor at Northwestern University in Chicago.

McGinnis said the thrust of Thomas's opinion "makes clear that in a narrow area he will give some weight to precedent. But at the same time, he thinks cases have one right answer, and might find more cases 'demonstrably erroneous.'"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/justice-thomas-urges-us-supreme-court-to-feel-free-to-reverse-precedents/ar-AAD1ndv?ocid=spartanntp
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54909 on: June 17, 2019, 10:38:17 PM »
John Oliver made the case for impeachment today if anybody saw it.

Brilliant.

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54910 on: June 17, 2019, 11:08:35 PM »
I know far too many of those people, including family members. It's concerning to say the least.

Do you think that any of them could be prompted to vote? Would it be economic issues? Or are they just completely disinterested in any kind of politics?

I heard one TX congresswoman say that people claim that Texas is a Red state...but it is actually a non-voting state. i would figure there are a few red states that are like that.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54911 on: June 17, 2019, 11:11:32 PM »
Luckily Thomas isn't chief justice. The vote today was 7 to 2. That is a bit encouraging.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54912 on: June 17, 2019, 11:22:43 PM »
John Oliver made the case for impeachment today if anybody saw it.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/zxT8CM8XntA" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/zxT8CM8XntA</a>

Happy to see John Oliver has been reading my posts at RAWK:
I don't think this situation is comparable to Clinton. Clinton lied under oath. Although bad, the lie was over a personal matter. Now, compare that to what Trump has done and how transparent it should be after Congressional hearings, which will be 'must watch' TV! I am not suggesting there are no risks involved (as the Senate almost certainly will not convict). But if Trump is demonstrably and transparently guilty, the greater risk might be the backlash against Senators who fail to vote for conviction of Trump.

The other reason why there should be impeachment hearings is because it is congressional duty to do so - it is the Constitution for good reason.

Even if Nancy Pelosi is correct in her political assessment (and I accept that she may be), this does not negate congressional duty to act. Nor does it take into account the expectation by a large number of Democrats (and a growing number of Republicans) for Congress to press for impeachment (there could be backlash for that failure too).

There are no easy answers here. But I am of the (growing) opinion that Congress and the Senate should perform their duties and let they chips fall where they may. Much as Robert Mueller did.

Offline GreatEx

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54913 on: June 17, 2019, 11:23:15 PM »
Just think "What benefits me the most" that's the american core value.

Except that doesn't explain voting for Trump. "What screws over my enemies the most?" does.

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54914 on: June 17, 2019, 11:39:15 PM »
John Oliver made the case for impeachment today if anybody saw it.

Really good piece
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54915 on: June 17, 2019, 11:41:32 PM »
Except that doesn't explain voting for Trump. "What screws over my enemies the most?" does.

Not really, they thought trump would help them. They thought he would get rid of all the dirty immigrants taking their jobs, they thought trump would fight for the little man, they thought trump would make america great again, they're also idiots.

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54916 on: June 18, 2019, 01:23:28 PM »
POLITICO
‘Lock him up’: Dems flirt with calls to prosecute Trump
 By Darren Samuelsohn 
3 hrs ago


Get ready for a potential new 2020 presidential campaign chant: “Lock him up”

A role reversal is starting to play out, with some Democrats openly taunting President Donald Trump with threats he’ll be the one spending time behind bars after he’s out of office. And some White House hopefuls have started weighing in, teeing off on the norm-busting Trump presidency and arguing that no person should be above prosecution if the evidence is there. Yet in the process, they’re alarming law enforcement veterans across the political spectrum who see the Democrats engaging in their own version of the politicization of the country’s criminal justice system that Trump was accused of when he fanned chants of “lock her up” during his own 2016 campaign against Hillary Clinton.

“Presidents aren’t supposed to suggest there be investigations or prosecutions of particular people, let alone their political rivals,” said Matt Axelrod, a former senior Obama-era Justice Department official. “President Trump has flagrantly and repeatedly violated that norm, but that doesn’t mean the norm has been obliterated.”

“It’s so un-American to prosecute your political enemies,” added Alan Dershowitz, the retired Harvard law professor, civil libertarian and occasional cable television Trump defender. “That’s what they do in banana republics.” (Shock and fucking awe!)

The issue isn’t going away, though. If Trump loses next November, he will return to private life, opening him up to criminal charges he was immune from as president. And former special counsel Robert Mueller has left a potential rap sheet in the form of a report with evidence that numerous legal experts argue constitutes criminal obstruction of justice.

So Democrats running for president are sure to be pressed on the loaded question: Will Trump face prosecution if you win?

Several candidates have already taken the plunge. In an NPR interview last week, California Sen. Kamala Harris said the Justice Department in her administration “would have no choice, and that they should” prosecute Trump if he no longer enjoys immunity from criminal indictment. Pete Buttigieg, the mayor of South Bend, Ind., also offered his thoughts last week, telling The Atlantic, “To the extent that there’s an obstruction case, then yes, DOJ’s got to deal with it.”

Politically, using Trump's famous 2016 campaign mantra against him has its selling points. Candidates can stand out in a supersized field by speaking to the faction of the party’s base that already feels deflated by Democratic leaders’ refusal to launch impeachment proceedings and angry that Mueller declined to make a final judgment on whether Trump should face prosecution for obstructing justice.

“As the stakes get higher for the Democratic field and the nation, the incentives for many candidates is to up the rhetoric to woo the base, draw attention and win primary voters, debates and delegates,” said Scott Mulhauser, a former aide to Vice President Joe Biden. “Where this all lands, who will go farthest and what gets proposed next is anyone's guess, so each candidate has to sort through the dumpster fire of news every day, hoping their responses and their path to victory are the winning ones.”

But law enforcement veterans warned that candidates engaging on the subject are also opening up Pandora’s box. To start, they’re gift-wrapping for Trump a potent talking point he can use to excite his own voters: Keep him in office or he’s going to be fighting for his own freedom. Beyond that, Democrats risk creating their own toxic situation if they take over the White House in 2021, forced to try and advance a post-Trump agenda alongside the first ever federal criminal trial against a former American president.

“You can see a case where an incoming [Democratic] president might not want a prosecution of Trump. It has the ability to blot out your entire agenda,” said Matthew Miller, a former Obama-era Justice Department spokesman. He called it a “very slippery slope” that the next president in many ways won’t even have control over — especially if they actually step back and leave it to their new crop of DOJ leaders to decide.

“It’s a massive thing, but an independent attorney general might determine he or she has no choice,” Miller said.

Democrats have been trying to articulate what the world would look like for Trump in a post-White House era. Their troubles have been fueled in part by a POLITICO report earlier this month that the party’s de facto leader, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, pushed back on colleagues clamoring for impeachment by declaring: “I don’t want to see him impeached, I want to see him in prison.”

A few days later, Beto O’Rourke said on ABC’s “This Week” that he thought Trump had committed crimes that should be prosecuted.

“I would want my Justice Department, any future administration’s Justice Department, to follow the facts and the truth and to make sure at the end of the day that there is accountability and justice,” the former Texas congressman said. “Without that, this idea, this experiment of American democracy comes to a close.”

Next came Harris, who in an NPR podcast interview that aired last Wednesday took the biggest step yet in sizing up what she’d expect from her DOJ on the prosecution front if she defeated Trump in 2020.

“I believe that they would have no choice, and that they should,” said Harris, who also is a former California attorney general and San Francisco district attorney. “I believe there should be accountability. Everyone should be held accountable. And the president is not above the law.”

Then Buttigieg got in on the action. “I would want any credible allegation of criminal behavior to be investigated to the fullest,” he told The Atlantic.

All of the clamoring for Trump’s prosecution — and the parsing of how it would play out — has alarmed law enforcement experts.

“She refrained from chanting, ‘Lock Him Up!’ — for which I suppose we should be grateful,” Ben Wittes, a senior fellow in governance studies at Brookings and the editor-in-chief of the blog Lawfare, wrote of Harris.

He added that while Trump started the bombast in 2016, it nonetheless “is poisonous stuff in a democracy that cares about apolitical law enforcement.”

Many others agree.

Axelrod, the senior Obama-era DOJ official, said it is vital for Trump’s successor to “ensure that the traditional wall of separation between the White House and the Department of Justice on criminal matters is rebuilt,” especially in light of Trump’s possible legal troubles.

Elie Honig, a former federal prosecutor from New York, urged the Democratic candidates to try and stay away from the topic. “It simply is not the president's job to tell DOJ who to charge or with what crimes, and it's inappropriate and potentially dangerous for any president do so, in any context,” he said.

Some of the Democrats have since tried to parse their initial remarks — though they aren’t exactly doing much to back away from them.

Harris later cited the Mueller report’s 10 instances of potential obstruction. “The Department of Justice after this president is no longer in office I would assume that they’re going to take a look at it and take it where the facts may lead them,” she said on MSNBC.

“My Justice Department will be empowered to reach its own conclusions,” Buttigieg said Sunday on CNN, though he also added, “I believe that the rule of law will catch up to this president. It doesn't require the Oval Office putting any kind of thumb on the scale.”

He also said: “I trust the DOJ to reach the right determination, at least the DOJ that I would … set up. And the less that has to do with the directives coming out of the White House, the better.”

Trump’s replacement wouldn’t be the first modern-day U.S. president to face questions about how prosecutors should treat their predecessor.

President Barack Obama faced pressure from his left to prosecute George W. Bush and Dick Cheney for alleged crimes tied to the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. But as president-elect in 2009, Obama told ABC’s George Stephanopolous he had “a belief that we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards.”

Still, the clamor continued. Even as Obama’s top aides early on tried to tamp down talk of plans to charge any Bush-era officials involved in “enhanced interrogation” programs, the dust didn’t settle until Attorney General Eric Holder ruled out prosecutions in August 2012, following an extensive audit.

Bush was spared right before his 2001 inauguration of having to deal with the fallout of a potential post-presidential indictment of Bill Clinton. On his last day in office, the Democratic lame-duck president — who’d been impeached two years earlier by the House but acquitted in the Senate — reached a deal with prosecutors to accept a five-year suspension of his law license, a $25,000 fine and an acknowledgment he’d breached professional conduct in his testimony about sexual misconduct.

In return, Clinton skirted legal jeopardy when he was no longer president.

And, most memorably, President Gerald Ford avoided the issue by offering Richard Nixon a full pardon, arguing that the country had to move on from the Watergate scandal that forced his predecessor to resign. Ford’s decision defined his presidency and played a key role in his 1976 loss to Jimmy Carter.

While a potential Trump prosecution could be at the very top of the to-do list for a Democratic administration in 2021, Miller said the next crop of Justice Department leaders may take their cues from Congress should it decide against impeaching Trump, as well as the Attorney General William Barr, who declined to bring charges against Trump.

Even if the new attorney general disagrees with Barr’s rationale, his successor may not want to reopen a case against Trump because “it is too much to put the country through,” Miller said.

That could be the ultimate kick in the gut for pro-impeachment Democrats who were told that Trump would get his comeuppance once he’s out of office.

“But such is life,” Miller said. “People should just be happy he’s gone from the presidency at that point.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/lock-him-up-dems-flirt-with-calls-to-prosecute-trump/ar-AAD3eoX?ocid=spartandhp
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Offline Lynndenberries

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54917 on: June 18, 2019, 05:51:46 PM »
Do you think that any of them could be prompted to vote? Would it be economic issues? Or are they just completely disinterested in any kind of politics?

I heard one TX congresswoman say that people claim that Texas is a Red state...but it is actually a non-voting state. i would figure there are a few red states that are like that.

Nope, there aren't any economic issues. I had a long debate with one of them a few months ago. The premise of his argument was "I don't like Trump, but also don't care for any of the Democratic nominees, so I won't vote." I did my best to convince him otherwise, but it came to nothing.
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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54918 on: June 18, 2019, 05:55:21 PM »
Nope, there aren't any economic issues. I had a long debate with one of them a few months ago. The premise of his argument was "I don't like Trump, but also don't care for any of the Democratic nominees, so I won't vote." I did my best to convince him otherwise, but it came to nothing.

And here I am just getting my citizenship and I can't wait to cast my vote

Offline jambutty

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Re: Ill Douche - Fungal Dick
« Reply #54919 on: June 18, 2019, 08:14:16 PM »
Washington Examiner
Orlando Sentinel announces endorsement for whichever Democrat takes on Trump In 2020
 Dominick Mastrangelo 
3 hrs ago


Hours before President Trump is set to kickoff his 2020 reelection campaign in Orlando, the city’s largest news organization announced they are endorsing whoever challenges Trump in the general election regardless of who it is.

“We’re here to announce our endorsement for president in 2020, or, at least, who we’re not endorsing: Donald Trump,” the Orlando Sentinel said in its Tuesday staff editorial. “Because there’s no point pretending we would ever recommend that readers vote for Trump.”

After nearly three years, the paper’s editorial board said it has seen enough.

“Enough of the chaos, the division, the schoolyard insults, the self-aggrandizement, the corruption, and especially the lies,” they said. “So many lies — from white lies to whoppers — told out of ignorance, laziness, recklessness, expediency or opportunity.”

In a public shaming of people who voted for the president in 2016, the Sentinel called out what it described as a troubling “tolerance” for Trump’s divisive rhetoric.

“Trump’s capacity for lying isn’t the surprise here,” it said. “Though the frequency is. It’s the tolerance so many Americans have for it.”

Fans of the president began lining up outside the city’s Amway Center as early as Monday afternoon for the Trump campaign kickoff rally, which begins at 8 p.m. EST.

In an early-morning tweet Tuesday, the president complained that the so-called “Fake News” media does not focus enough on the support he and other Republicans have from voters.

He cited the crowd gathered outside the Orlando venue as evidence of his popularity.

“Republican enthusiasm is at an all time high,” Trump said. “Look what is going on in Orlando, Florida, right now! People have never seen anything like it (unless you play a guitar). Going to be wild.”

But the Orlando Sentinel said they and the people of Central Florida are tired of Trump and his supporters.

“The nation must endure another 1½ years of Trump. But it needn’t suffer another four beyond that,” it said. “We can do better. We have to do better.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/orlando-sentinel-announces-endorsement-for-whichever-democrat-takes-on-trump-in-2020/ar-AAD44lL?ocid=spartanntp
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