Author Topic: Let's Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)  (Read 959782 times)

Offline Smudgester

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #80 on: August 18, 2014, 10:02:58 PM »
My college in the US does a system like that in the US. Basically, you buy a ticket for a certain section, then when you show up you exchange that ticket for a ticket assigned to a specific seat. That way you show up with 4 of your friends and you tell the person working at the ticket booth "hey we're a group of 5" and they'll make sure to give you 5 seats next to each other so you don't get split across rows, etc. It works very well in practice, to be honest. Just need to make sure the proper records are kept.

And how do they "make sure" if there is not a block of 5 seats together ?

Offline Smudgester

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #81 on: August 18, 2014, 10:09:21 PM »
By policed I mean two things...

1. Is with regards to people suggesting a dedicated singing area, what we pretty much have, and how do you 'police' that the ones buying tickets in that area do sing, and what do you do if they don't?

2. For your idea, the actual police aren't going to agree to fans not having an actual seat. I'm not sure if this is what the FA/Govt requires, someone with a little more knowledge of the legislation may be able to confirm this. Personally I could see a whole load of issues and potential problems with just assigning people to an area - but the suggestion by iamrobk gets a similar outcome as you suggested I think in allowing mates to get together.

The club has to know who is sitting in every seat. Racial abuse, for example, is a criminal offence and if the club have no idea who was sitting in the seat then the police will want to know why and the club will not be able to ban the fan.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #82 on: August 18, 2014, 10:10:45 PM »
And how do they "make sure" if there is not a block of 5 seats together ?

He said they start from the front back so more often than not groups get on a row together.

It's an added incentive to get in early, which the club would like the idea of.

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #83 on: August 18, 2014, 10:12:08 PM »
The club has to know who is sitting in every seat. Racial abuse, for example, is a criminal offence and if the club have no idea who was sitting in the seat then the police will want to know why and the club will not be able to ban the fan.

They certainly don't have to know the identity of everyone, given one person can buy a couple of tickets depending in the game, but they do want to know bought the tickets rather than someone turning up at a window with cash.

Offline Smudgester

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #84 on: August 18, 2014, 10:13:16 PM »
He said they start from the front back so more often than not groups get on a row together.

It's an added incentive to get in early, which the club would like the idea of.

I don't see how that would work - certainly not with people just turning up early ...

"Right, that's you and your mates in row 2"
"But that's shite, too close to the front. Can we not go in row 55?"
"No. That's the next space we have"

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #85 on: August 18, 2014, 10:16:08 PM »
I don't see how that would work - certainly not with people just turning up early ...

"Right, that's you and your mates in row 2"
"But that's shite, too close to the front. Can we not go in row 55?"
"No. That's the next space we have"

That sounds like it's exactly how it works. You could possibly do it by block on a first come first serve basis so people get some option to choose.

Offline Smudgester

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #86 on: August 18, 2014, 10:16:21 PM »
They certainly don't have to know the identity of everyone, given one person can buy a couple of tickets depending in the game, but they do want to know bought the tickets rather than someone turning up at a window with cash.

Sure - but they have a name for the person who bought the tickets (and if needs be hold that person responsible). If one person can buy two "places" in a block but the club have no idea where those 2 "places" ended up being.

When was the last time a ticket was sold for cash or without being tied to a membership card ??

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #87 on: August 18, 2014, 10:18:25 PM »
Sure - but they have a name for the person who bought the tickets (and if needs be hold that person responsible). If one person can buy two "places" in a block but the club have no idea where those 2 "places" ended up being.

When was the last time a ticket was sold for cash or without being tied to a membership card ??

Years ago for us, I expect other grounds in the PL do it regularly if they don't have the demand to fill the stadium on a weekly basis.

I'm certainly not advocating going back to a system where that is the case, and the club (due to membership fees, collecting fan data, etc) and police won't want it either.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #88 on: August 18, 2014, 10:24:31 PM »
And how do they "make sure" if there is not a block of 5 seats together ?

What's the worst that could happen? You'd have to split. So you'd try and go for 3+2. Or you'd have to be spread out. What's the situation today? There is no solution for every case. But perhaps a better one than we have today?

The club has to know who is sitting in every seat. Racial abuse, for example, is a criminal offence and if the club have no idea who was sitting in the seat then the police will want to know why and the club will not be able to ban the fan.

It's a larger puzzle. Safety and control is just one aspect. I think we all know that when standing was allowed, the atmosphere was better and control was worse. Now there's control and worse atmosphere. The optimum for today, acceptable for all, is likely to be somewhere in between.
If we want to improve the atmosphere and we believe having friends sit together is one possible solution, we need to try and figure out how that could happen. Everything can't stay the same if we want things to change.

Is there something else that could help improve things?

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Offline Smudgester

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #89 on: August 18, 2014, 10:31:30 PM »
That sounds like it's exactly how it works. You could possibly do it by block on a first come first serve basis so people get some option to choose.

And how many weeks in advance would this start ? Worse case scenario is you over 10k people trying to book a particular block of seats. The only way you could possibly do it is online but would need the ability to to 'tie' multiple fancards together and allow, say, the 'lead' fancard to know how many friends fancards have tickets for the game and choose a seat. But that still wouldn't stop non-singers doing the same thing.

You also have the problem of ST holders being spread out across the Kop. Unless you could convince all of them to sit in the same area (never going to happen) then the system would have to work around that. For example, I have a ST in 207 and in the 30+ seats immediately around me there is at most 3 seats that aren't taken by the same people every game. According to "The Kop: Liverpool's Twelfth Man", there are 16.5k seats on the Kop and 9k ST holders sit there. By the law of averages that doesn't allow for blocks of any size, net alone 5, to sit anywhere in the stand.

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #90 on: August 18, 2014, 10:36:34 PM »
And how many weeks in advance would this start ? Worse case scenario is you over 10k people trying to book a particular block of seats. The only way you could possibly do it is online but would need the ability to to 'tie' multiple fancards together and allow, say, the 'lead' fancard to know how many friends fancards have tickets for the game and choose a seat. But that still wouldn't stop non-singers doing the same thing.

The guy said a 25k section does it in a 100k+ crowd, all on the day, so don't think its a massive issue from what he has said.

Quote
You also have the problem of ST holders being spread out across the Kop. Unless you could convince all of them to sit in the same area (never going to happen) then the system would have to work around that. For example, I have a ST in 207 and in the 30+ seats immediately around me there is at most 3 seats that aren't taken by the same people every game. According to "The Kop: Liverpool's Twelfth Man", there are 16.5k seats on the Kop and 9k ST holders sit there. By the law of averages that doesn't allow for blocks of any size, net alone 5, to sit anywhere in the stand.

The Kop is around 12,400 currently, obviously ST holders would be an issue but don't see why this system couldn't work around those. It would all be computerised at the window so fairly simple and instantaneous to do.


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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #91 on: August 18, 2014, 10:37:48 PM »
Lets wait until we have had a European night in the most prestigious club competition in the world before we say this.  European nights have always been much better than the league atmosphere.
Thing is though , the league is the trophy we perhaps covet the most, so surely improving the atmos for the league games is critical.
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Offline Smudgester

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #92 on: August 18, 2014, 10:39:16 PM »
It's a larger puzzle. Safety and control is just one aspect. I think we all know that when standing was allowed, the atmosphere was better and control was worse. Now there's control and worse atmosphere. The optimum for today, acceptable for all, is likely to be somewhere in between.
If we want to improve the atmosphere and we believe having friends sit together is one possible solution, we need to try and figure out how that could happen. Everything can't stay the same if we want things to change.

Is there something else that could help improve things?

But I believe, in a way, you're trying to think of a solution to a problem that doesn't always exist.

As was posted earlier, the game itself had a large affect on the atmosphere (LFC playing towards the Kop in the 1st half, the team playing pretty badly, first game of the season on the back of a very successful previous season brings the day trippers out in their droves). Will the atmosphere be different for Villa ? Perhaps ? But it will be different without the club doing anything to change it. Will the atmosphere, yesterday, be completely different to the atmosphere on the 27th September ? Immeasurably, but no new initiatives will be bought in over the next 4 weeks.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 10:41:06 PM by Smudgester »

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #93 on: August 18, 2014, 10:41:37 PM »
And how many weeks in advance would this start ? Worse case scenario is you over 10k people trying to book a particular block of seats. The only way you could possibly do it is online but would need the ability to to 'tie' multiple fancards together and allow, say, the 'lead' fancard to know how many friends fancards have tickets for the game and choose a seat. But that still wouldn't stop non-singers doing the same thing.

You also have the problem of ST holders being spread out across the Kop. Unless you could convince all of them to sit in the same area (never going to happen) then the system would have to work around that. For example, I have a ST in 207 and in the 30+ seats immediately around me there is at most 3 seats that aren't taken by the same people every game. According to "The Kop: Liverpool's Twelfth Man", there are 16.5k seats on the Kop and 9k ST holders sit there. By the law of averages that doesn't allow for blocks of any size, net alone 5, to sit anywhere in the stand.

What's the atmosphere like around where you sit?
If you were to make one change to improve it, what would you suggest?

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Offline CraigDS

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #94 on: August 18, 2014, 10:47:22 PM »
But I believe, in a way, you're trying to think of a solution to a problem that doesn't always exist.

As was posted earlier, the game itself had a large affect on the atmosphere (LFC playing towards the Kop in the 1st half, the team playing pretty badly, first game of the season on the back of a very successful previous season brings the day trippers out in their droves). Will the atmosphere be different for Villa ? Perhaps ? But it will be different without the club doing anything to change it. Will the atmosphere, yesterday, be completely different to the atmosphere on the 27th September ? Immeasurably, but no new initiatives will be bought in over the next 4 weeks.

The problem certainly exists for the vast majority of the season. It was great for a handful of games towards the end last year but that was it last season, the rest were pretty much as awful as yesterday.

So there is a problem, and there are no doubt a couple of ways some of these problems could be addressed, and one of which is getting friends and like minded individuals together on the Kop.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #95 on: August 18, 2014, 10:53:52 PM »
But I believe, in a way, you're trying to think of a solution to a problem that doesn't always exist.

As was posted earlier, the game itself had a large affect on the atmosphere (LFC playing towards the Kop in the 1st half, the team playing pretty badly, first game of the season on the back of a very successful previous season brings the day trippers out in their droves). Will the atmosphere be different for Villa ? Perhaps ? But it will be different without the club doing anything to change it. Will the atmosphere, yesterday, be completely different to the atmosphere on the 27th September ? Immeasurably, but no new initiatives will be bought in over the next 4 weeks.

Agree the game has a big impact. It's always a factor no-one can control. It will take time. We are not likely to find a killer solution, but we may find ways to improve.

The reason I ask these questions is I deal with change a lot. People typically don't want to change. They're against it. I'm no different. But change means that something will have to be different. So we need to think about what we want to achieve and how we could make it happen. Not so much about the obstacles. We'll get to them, but we need to let the ideas grow a little before we challenge them too much. Along the way people will offer hundreds of reasons to slow things down or prevent change. And they have the odds on their side. They don't have to change anything. Which is a shame, because things can be better than they are today.

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Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #96 on: August 18, 2014, 10:59:11 PM »
I'm not shutting the door mate, that's why I've been asking the question as to how to police it.

You keep mentioning how to police it and I have given answers to this and you mentioned that some people may bend the rules to stand in the singing section with no intention of singing.

Now here's where the fun starts! ;D If said person is stood next to me and is not singing or making ay effort whatsoever to get involved to generate an atmosphere then they should be abused like there is no tomorrow to the extent that they either sing or don't come back!  ;D

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #97 on: August 18, 2014, 11:03:06 PM »
You keep mentioning how to police it and I have given answers to this and you mentioned that some people may bend the rules to stand in the singing section with no intention of singing.

Now here's where the fun starts! ;D If said person is stood next to me and is not singing or making ay effort whatsoever to get involved to generate an atmosphere then they should be abused like there is no tomorrow to the extent that they either sing or don't come back!  ;D

I'm not sure you have given answers though, I can't see where you've said you'd make sure only people who want to sing but those tickets, or what you'd do if people (as now) do buy them.

I'm all for self policing and telling them they should be singing, however I imagine not everyone will give a shit!

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #98 on: August 18, 2014, 11:25:38 PM »
How does selling them to people with high credits solve the problem? There's no guarantee whatsoever that those people are more interested in singing than others.

And there are plenty with high credits who pass them on as spares (and say it quietly - tout them).
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Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #99 on: August 18, 2014, 11:42:54 PM »
I'm not sure you have given answers though, I can't see where you've said you'd make sure only people who want to sing but those tickets, or what you'd do if people (as now) do buy them.

I'm all for self policing and telling them they should be singing, however I imagine not everyone will give a shit!

I think that it should be allocated to people who have been to a certain amount of games. To stop people just buying in there so they can guarantee to sit on the KOP, the club need to allocate enough seats in the first sale to allow those with the available loyalty to buy anywhere on the KOP so that they don't have to resort to buying in the singing section if they have no intention of singing.

Those taking the time to apply to the cub for tickets in the singing section would surely then be likeminded people who wanted to sing?

Alan has made a good point about people passing on tickets and people with loyalty touting their tickets off but to solve this its a simple photo ID on your members card to get in. If you genuinely get ill you can call the club and give the details of the person who is taking your place but im going to be honest in all of the time I have been going, I have never been 'that' ill that can't attend an LFC game. People using this excuse are probably the one who use this 'excuse' to pass on their tickets that they had no intention of attending in the first place.

Offline Smudgester

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #100 on: August 18, 2014, 11:58:58 PM »
What's the atmosphere like around where you sit?
If you were to make one change to improve it, what would you suggest?

the atmosphere around me is largely quiet but enough join in with the singing from time to time.

However, I am firmly of the opinion that you can't force people to sing or kick them out of the seat (they have just as much right to as anyone else) just because they don't. Plenty of people go to the game to WATCH it and concentrate on what they are watching and if that's what they want to do then who is anyone else to argue that they're wrong ? And, IMHO, if you're one of the those people then the Kop is the best stand to be in as IMHO it gives by far the best view of the play and where players are etc.

And, no, you can't do that and sing all the time at the same time.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #101 on: August 19, 2014, 12:02:22 AM »
I think that it should be allocated to people who have been to a certain amount of games. To stop people just buying in there so they can guarantee to sit on the KOP, the club need to allocate enough seats in the first sale to allow those with the available loyalty to buy anywhere on the KOP so that they don't have to resort to buying in the singing section if they have no intention of singing.

Those taking the time to apply to the cub for tickets in the singing section would surely then be likeminded people who wanted to sing?

There's no guarantee that those with large amount of game credits will a. not apply for that section or b. if they do they will add anything to the atmosphere.

As you say, 50% of the tickets sold for yesterday's game were to people with a large amount of credits, yet were 50% (or even 10%) singing?

Quote
Alan has made a good point about people passing on tickets and people with loyalty touting their tickets off but to solve this its a simple photo ID on your members card to get in. If you genuinely get ill you can call the club and give the details of the person who is taking your place but im going to be honest in all of the time I have been going, I have never been 'that' ill that can't attend an LFC game. People using this excuse are probably the one who use this 'excuse' to pass on their tickets that they had no intention of attending in the first place.

Photos on them won't work. Plenty of people who have genuine bought tickets can't attend for whatever reason, be it illness, work related or something they can't control. You'd end up with shit loads of empty seats.

You'd also have to go back to a manual entry system rather than an automatic gate, as you'd need to check each and every photo.

Offline Always_A_Red

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #102 on: August 19, 2014, 12:14:31 AM »
There's no guarantee that those with large amount of game credits will a. not apply for that section or b. if they do they will add anything to the atmosphere.

As you say, 50% of the tickets sold for yesterday's game were to people with a large amount of credits, yet were 50% (or even 10%) singing?


Well no, there isn't a guarantee but you'd have to be a bad bellend to buy tickets in a singing section if you didn't want to sing when you could easily buy tickets in a block or 2 away in the KOP that to didn't 'have' to sing in. Just to clarify, im talking about having it available to 'regulars' who would usually be involved in the first sale and STH's who wanted to be in it.

I would say that a large % of people in the 300's were not regulars yesterday. That was a fuckup made by the club by allocating tickets to hospitality and allowing people with 0 credits to buy tickets there in the 2nd sale.


Photos on them won't work. Plenty of people who have genuine bought tickets can't attend for whatever reason, be it illness, work related or something they can't control. You'd end up with shit loads of empty seats.

You'd also have to go back to a manual entry system rather than an automatic gate, as you'd need to check each and every photo.

Ok that may not be the best solution then but I think that the % of people who are buying tickets and passing them on would be such a small insignificant amount if you had say 3000 people across the 300's who were regulars in the singing section that you wouldn't even notice.

What you wouldn't have is families of 4 or 5 wanting to sit down, people attending their first game or as many daytrippers not knowing what day it was.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 12:16:06 AM by Always_A_Red »

Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #103 on: August 19, 2014, 01:22:10 AM »
But attending X amount of matches doesn't mean they will sing, otherwise we'd of had a pretty damn good atmosphere yesterday given 50% of the members sale tickets went to those who had 14+ games last season.

How could you police it? Kick out anyone who doesn't sing and cut up their members card? Fact is people will happily lie that they will sing to get a ticket given how hard it is to get them currently.

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Offline thechulloran

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #104 on: August 19, 2014, 10:24:51 AM »
Allow the 100 and 200 blocks to stand during the whole match if they want.
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Offline paulsheridan08

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #105 on: August 19, 2014, 10:38:16 AM »
if you read further back these lads had dialogue with the club to only allow certain fans to buy tickets in one area at leicester, give you this to read https://twitter.com/FilboSpirit   
http://filbospirit.wordpress.com/2014/03/19/minutes-from-union-fs-first-meeting-with-lcfc/
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 10:41:00 AM by paulsheridan08 »

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #106 on: August 19, 2014, 11:06:10 AM »
Here's my idea from the other thread been mulling on it for few days now;

When you purchase your tickets, there should be two options;

1. I want to be the 12th player
2. I just want to watch the game

If you select option two you will not get a ticket in the KOP, that is only available for option 1. With option 1 you will get a letter with your ticket, if you have a membership card a letter will be sent to you. This letter is a pledge you take when choosing option 1, it outlines your duty as the 12th player; to support the team vocally, encourage the players. No filming or taking pictures, no slating players. (This is explained on the website before you select option 1, but the letter is a nice reminder to have, you can also bring this letter to the ground and give it to someone who is acting like a tit.)

Because you're going to sing your guts out and add to the 'Famous atmosphere™' You should get compensated. So option one tickets are reduced by 20% a further 20% is reduced if the ticket is purchased by a fan with a post code that is within 5 miles of the stadium and a further 10% if it's purchased by a young adult with a postcode that is within 5 miles of the stadium. My reasoning for this is that if I go to Barcelona and fancy watching them play whilst I'm there I wouldn't mind paying 50% more than the locals do for my ticket.

Remember option 1 is only for tickets in the KOP, the price of option 2 tickets will not change, the club will lose a bit of money on the KOP tickets but in exchange for the atmosphere.




"We must turn from doubters into believers" - Jurgen Klopp


I've got a feeling that Origi is the real deal, from a couple of games I watched but mainly his interviews there seems to be something about him.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #107 on: August 19, 2014, 11:08:32 AM »
Here's my idea from the other thread been mulling on it for few days now;

When you purchase your tickets, there should be two options;

1. I want to be the 12th player
2. I just want to watch the game

If you select option two you will not get a ticket in the KOP, that is only available for option 1. With option 1 you will get a letter with your ticket, if you have a membership card a letter will be sent to you. This letter is a pledge you take when choosing option 1, it outlines your duty as the 12th player; to support the team vocally, encourage the players. No filming or taking pictures, no slating players. (This is explained on the website before you select option 1, but the letter is a nice reminder to have, you can also bring this letter to the ground and give it to someone who is acting like a tit.)

Because you're going to sing your guts out and add to the 'Famous atmosphere™' You should get compensated. So option one tickets are reduced by 20% a further 20% is reduced if the ticket is purchased by a fan with a post code that is within 5 miles of the stadium and a further 10% if it's purchased by a young adult with a postcode that is within 5 miles of the stadium. My reasoning for this is that if I go to Barcelona and fancy watching them play whilst I'm there I wouldn't mind paying 50% more than the locals do for my ticket.

Remember option 1 is only for tickets in the KOP, the price of option 2 tickets will not change, the club will lose a bit of money on the KOP tickets but in exchange for the atmosphere.

And how do you make sure those who buy the cheaper tickets on the Kop actually sing? What happens if they don't and who makes that decision that they aren't singing?

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #108 on: August 19, 2014, 11:19:08 AM »
And how do you make sure those who buy the cheaper tickets on the Kop actually sing? What happens if they don't and who makes that decision that they aren't singing?
They'd get a letter handed to them from me and others around them, which reminds them that they signed a pledge to sing and add to the atmosphere. Let's call it a breach of contract, if enough people make them feel uncomfortable then they'll relocate to option 2, and option 1 will get the reputation of ultras where you'll get told off if you don't sing. There isn't an excuse to not sing in my system as you're reminded before you buy the ticket and then you get a letter outlining your duties.
"We must turn from doubters into believers" - Jurgen Klopp


I've got a feeling that Origi is the real deal, from a couple of games I watched but mainly his interviews there seems to be something about him.

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #109 on: August 19, 2014, 11:22:24 AM »
They'd get a letter handed to them from me and others around them, which reminds them that they signed a pledge to sing and add to the atmosphere. Let's call it a breach of contract, if enough people make them feel uncomfortable then they'll relocate to option 2, and option 1 will get the reputation of ultras where you'll get told off if you don't sing. There isn't an excuse to not sing in my system as you're reminded before you buy the ticket and then you get a letter outlining your duties.

I agree with you. If you get enough likeminded people in one place who are singing and they notice some c*nt with a selfie stick or foam hand adding nothing to the atmosphere they/we should tear them to shreads so that they either a) start singing and contributing or b) feel so uncomfortable that they don't buy tickets in that section again.

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #110 on: August 19, 2014, 11:23:14 AM »
They'd get a letter and from me, which reminds them that they signed a pledge to sing and add to the atmosphere. Let's call it a breach of contract, if enough people make them feel uncomfortable then they'll relocate to option 2, and option 1 will get the reputation of ultras where you'll get told off if you don't sing. There isn't an excuse to not sing in my system as you're reminded before you buy the ticket and then you get a letter outlining your duties.

There may not be an excuse but there is a reason - massively ticket prices (especially given Kop tickets are already cheaper than everywhere else in the ground).

You'd just get a huge number of people that will still go there and not sing. Thinking a letter, a mock contract, is going to stop that is a little naive.

The 'bullying' from others around would certainly work if it were the odd one or two, but I'd hazard a guess the low ticket prices and huge demand for tickets in general will encourage fairly large numbers of go and sit there regardless - in which case people getting on their backs won't do much. Theres also the case that the fans who are there to sing would then be concentrating on having a pop at our own fans rather than getting behind the side.

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #111 on: August 19, 2014, 11:25:49 AM »
There may not be an excuse but there is a reason - massively ticket prices (especially given Kop tickets are already cheaper than everywhere else in the ground).

You'd just get a huge number of people that will still go there and not sing. Thinking a letter, a mock contract, is going to stop that is a little naive.

The 'bullying' from others around would certainly work if it were the odd one or two, but I'd hazard a guess the low ticket prices and huge demand for tickets in general will encourage fairly large numbers of go and sit there regardless - in which case people getting on their backs won't do much. Theres also the case that the fans who are there to sing would then be concentrating on having a pop at our own fans rather than getting behind the side.

I agree with this bit. I don't think you can introduce lower prices for the singing section. If anything, they should be higher to stop people from trying to abuse the system. Noone is going to pay more for a ticket unless the really want to be there but on the flip side, I'd happily pay a couple of quid more to be a part of something like this.  Something to consider.

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #112 on: August 19, 2014, 11:30:43 AM »
Best way is to have a standing section in the Kop.  Those that want to come for the day are less likely to want to stand the whole game.  You cannot get people to self-certify that they will sing or not, especially when there is a price difference.  People who want to experience the Kop atmosphere will want to sit with all option 1 fans. 

I would suggest restricting access to buying tickets in the Kop for those who have been to X number of games over the course of 3 or more seasons. 

I don't think you should give preference to those that are from the Liverpool area either.  I am from London and was sitting next to two lads from Ireland on Sunday and we were by far the loudest people around us.  We also had a group of German fans behind us who were cheering etc. when possible but didn't know the words to the songs (apart from YNWA) - they wanted to experience the famous Kop and all had this season's replica shirts as well as bags containing other merchandise from the club shop. 

Offline SlowRap

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #113 on: August 19, 2014, 11:31:24 AM »
There may not be an excuse but there is a reason - massively ticket prices (especially given Kop tickets are already cheaper than everywhere else in the ground).

You'd just get a huge number of people that will still go there and not sing. Thinking a letter, a mock contract, is going to stop that is a little naive.

The 'bullying' from others around would certainly work if it were the odd one or two, but I'd hazard a guess the low ticket prices and huge demand for tickets in general will encourage fairly large numbers of go and sit there regardless - in which case people getting on their backs won't do much. Theres also the case that the fans who are there to sing would then be concentrating on having a pop at our own fans rather than getting behind the side.
Well the "bullying" is justified as they're taking a place of a fan who'd actually contribute to the atmosphere the only reason their ticket is cheaper by up to 50% is because they're expected to contribute and if they aren't then they should pay more and move to anywhere but the KOP or just watch it on the stream for free if they can't afford it as they're adding to the game as much as the people at home. Being the 12th player is crucial for the players that are on the pitch as it will give us an advantage during games.

Anyway the aim is to make them feel uncomfortable so that the message spreads, one month, two months and it gets clear that if you buy option 1 ticket you better contribute otherwise you get bollocked.

"We must turn from doubters into believers" - Jurgen Klopp


I've got a feeling that Origi is the real deal, from a couple of games I watched but mainly his interviews there seems to be something about him.

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #114 on: August 19, 2014, 11:35:10 AM »
Best way is to have a standing section in the Kop.  Those that want to come for the day are less likely to want to stand the whole game.  You cannot get people to self-certify that they will sing or not, especially when there is a price difference.  People who want to experience the Kop atmosphere will want to sit with all option 1 fans. 

I would suggest restricting access to buying tickets in the Kop for those who have been to X number of games over the course of 3 or more seasons. 

I don't think you should give preference to those that are from the Liverpool area either.  I am from London and was sitting next to two lads from Ireland on Sunday and we were by far the loudest people around us.  We also had a group of German fans behind us who were cheering etc. when possible but didn't know the words to the songs (apart from YNWA) - they wanted to experience the famous Kop and all had this season's replica shirts as well as bags containing other merchandise from the club shop.
You're more than welcome to buy the option 1 ticket but you will pay 20% more than the local who lives 5 miles from the stadium, I don't see that as massively unfair as you might be down to the game a couple of times a year whereas the locals are more likely to come down every week.
"We must turn from doubters into believers" - Jurgen Klopp


I've got a feeling that Origi is the real deal, from a couple of games I watched but mainly his interviews there seems to be something about him.

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #115 on: August 19, 2014, 11:42:32 AM »
Well the "bullying" is justified as they're taking a place of a fan who'd actually contribute to the atmosphere the only reason their ticket is cheaper by up to 50% is because they're expected to contribute and if they aren't then they should pay more and move to anywhere but the KOP or just watch it on the stream for free if they can't afford it as they're adding to the game as much as the people at home. Being the 12th player is crucial for the players that are on the pitch as it will give us an advantage during games.

Anyway the aim is to make them feel uncomfortable so that the message spreads, one month, two months and it gets clear that if you buy option 1 ticket you better contribute otherwise you get bollocked.

Well it's not the the only reason in your idea the tickets are cheaper, it's also because they are local and because of age.

I don't mind some self policing, the problem is a. some will take it too far and some won't respond well to it and it could cause a hell of a lot more trouble, and b. it ends up taking it away from supporting the team to identifying and shouting at the ones not doing so.

I also think you'd end up with way more people not singing than you'd expect, and no amount of shouting or self policing is going to turn 30-40% (5,000) of the Kop fans if they're being quiet.

This is my problem with trying to offer incentives to be part of a singing area/whole Kop - it's next to impossible to control.

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #116 on: August 19, 2014, 11:42:51 AM »
You're more than welcome to buy the option 1 ticket but you will pay 20% more than the local who lives 5 miles from the stadium, I don't see that as massively unfair as you might be down to the game a couple of times a year whereas the locals are more likely to come down every week.

Lets not turn this into a local vs OOT debate mate. I cant think of one club that implements a system like that.

The debate here is to find a way of making the atmosphere better, not to provide cheaper options for locals. If you want to discuss that, please create another thread.

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #117 on: August 19, 2014, 11:43:41 AM »
You're more than welcome to buy the option 1 ticket but you will pay 20% more than the local who lives 5 miles from the stadium, I don't see that as massively unfair as you might be down to the game a couple of times a year whereas the locals are more likely to come down every week.

There are loads of fans who travel not only from down south but from abroad for each and every game, so you're making a massive (and incorrect) presumption.

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #118 on: August 19, 2014, 11:55:32 AM »
Well it's not the the only reason in your idea the tickets are cheaper, it's also because they are local and because of age.

I don't mind some self policing, the problem is a. some will take it too far and some won't respond well to it and it could cause a hell of a lot more trouble, and b. it ends up taking it away from supporting the team to identifying and shouting at the ones not doing so.

I also think you'd end up with way more people not singing than you'd expect, and no amount of shouting or self policing is going to turn 30-40% (5,000) of the Kop fans if they're being quiet.

This is my problem with trying to offer incentives to be part of a singing area/whole Kop - it's next to impossible to control.
Well we'd take the local and age thing out and the incentive is -20% off the ticket price, I think an incentive is needed to drive change and have some sort of payback to the fans who add to the atmosphere, as well as making the supporter have the mentality of "I better sing here because I'm paying 20% less than those other fans." We can actually implement a system they use now, text the seat number of a fan you see being negative not singing say 5+ reports on the same seat and that fans membership card gets suspended for option 1 games for say half a season because they weren't contributing to the atmosphere. That way you don't have to directly confront anyone.



Lets not turn this into a local vs OOT debate mate. I cant think of one club that implements a system like that.

The debate here is to find a way of making the atmosphere better, not to provide cheaper options for locals. If you want to discuss that, please create another thread.
Yes I agree that's a separate debate but I'd want to encourage the next generation to attend the game because right now most young locals are simply priced out, I've got no stats for this other than knowing my peers and living in the area.


There are loads of fans who travel not only from down south but from abroad for each and every game, so you're making a massive (and incorrect) presumption.
Maybe I don't have the stats on that but if they can afford to travel all the way to the game then surely they can afford to pay 20% more than the local. I'd be up for subsidising a lads ticket if it meant he could afford to go the game and sing his heart out supporting the team.
"We must turn from doubters into believers" - Jurgen Klopp


I've got a feeling that Origi is the real deal, from a couple of games I watched but mainly his interviews there seems to be something about him.

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Re: Lets Improve the Atmosphere at Anfield (split from Fortress Anfield)
« Reply #119 on: August 19, 2014, 12:02:09 PM »
Well we'd take the local and age thing out and the incentive is -20% off the ticket price, I think an incentive is needed to drive change and have some sort of payback to the fans who add to the atmosphere, as well as making the supporter have the mentality of "I better sing here because I'm paying 20% less than those other fans." We can actually implement a system they use now, text the seat number of a fan you see being negative not singing say 5+ reports on the same seat and that fans membership card gets suspended for option 1 games for say half a season because they weren't contributing to the atmosphere. That way you don't have to directly confront anyone.

So you want MORE people to get their phones out at the match and report people?!

Maybe the ones who want to sing could bring an iPad and make notes of the seat numbers they need to report, and get clear evidence using a camera on a stick  ;D


Quote
Yes I agree that's a separate debate but I'd want to encourage the next generation to attend the game because right now most young locals are simply priced out, I've got no stats for this other than knowing my peers and living in the area.

Why is the next generation only local? If you want to encourage this then it should be for an age group no matter what the location, not where they are from.

Quote
Maybe I don't have the stats on that but if they can afford to travel all the way to the game then surely they can afford to pay 20% more than the local. I'd be up for subsidising a lads ticket if it meant he could afford to go the game and sing his heart out supporting the team.

You're making massive assumptions again. Plenty go without other stuff to just afford to be able to travel to the game from wherever they live, you shouldn't and can't just make the assumption that because they are traveling from elsewhere they must have more money.