Author Topic: Chelsea Football Circus  (Read 1328748 times)

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16760 on: June 16, 2019, 04:02:15 PM »
Its known as being ruthless and being ruthless shouldn't preclude you from being successful, in fact it's probably a key attribute in becoming successful. So Chelsea finished 3rd, qualified for the Champions league and won the UEFA cup so it was another successful season for them. Since 2004 they have won the Champions league and multiple Premier league, UEFA and domestic cup titles, now I wouldn't mind that level of success. So since 2004 they have either been very successful or moderately successful and remained there or thereabouts without having a permanent manager so to speak. People seem to have this utopian view on how a club is run whereby the team manager is the key to everything, he is the leader and the figurehead, we certainly seem to need that as do many other clubs - but they don't. Their business model is different, they obviously have a great set up there in terms of scouting, recruitment and coaching etc. It has continuity and is stable and has the added advantage that it isn't reliant upon a long serving manager in order to remain successful. If you look at many large successful companies (there are exceptions) they don't fall apart when a key individual leaves them yet many football clubs do, including our own and it seems to take them years to rebuild every time. If anything we should take note and try and learn about what makes them so resilient despite should frequent managerial changes. I appreciate we have a different culture and ethos but lessons can still be learned, they were nowhere before this owner and are still in the mix now.

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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16761 on: June 16, 2019, 04:06:11 PM »
I work with a load of Chelsea fans, and in fairness, their grievance is that Mourinho behaved like a dickhead when he was United, insulting Chelsea and their fans ("I'm finally at a big club, the job I wanted all along"; also his hypocrisy in belittling Chelsea winning the Europa League yet making out like it was a massive achievement when he did it), and constantly making snide digs at Conte. Not because the team regressed on the pitch in his final season. If Rafa came to Anfield, goaded the fans and kept attacking Klopp in the press, we would soon get very pissed off with him (obviously Rafa would never do that).

In a way, many Chelsea fans deserve Mourinho turning on them because they revelled in what a prick he was to everyone else when he was their manager; but losing affection for him is pretty justified in my opinion, he did that to himself with his behaviour.

As for Lampard, no, he won't get that much patience, the modern football fan is impatient, especially Chelsea ones.


They demanded he be sacked twice.

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16762 on: June 16, 2019, 04:07:00 PM »
Never win the Europa league..


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Offline mattD

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16763 on: June 16, 2019, 04:26:17 PM »
Fuckin idiots. Letting an excellent coach like Sarri leave after disparaging him constantly. Be careful what you wish for.

They deserve all the failure that’s coming their way. Lampard in charge is going to be a hell of a lot of fun.

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16764 on: June 16, 2019, 04:33:56 PM »
Honestly no idea what Sarri even did wrong? What are the complaints that Chelsea fans have?

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16765 on: June 16, 2019, 04:36:58 PM »
Their decision to sack Mourinho in 2007 has sort of haunted them ever since. It's the single worst decision any club has ever made in Premier League history, they booted him at the peak of his powers in some weird tantrum Roman threw over one bad result at Villa. That changed both Mourinho into a paranoid man and Chelsea for the worse results-wise. Although both won trophies since, including that 2015 league title together, it was never quite the same again.

Sorry mate but that's a really poor post, they've been very successful since and as for it being the WORST decision in Premier League history, well I give you:-

Walker to Everton
Smith to Everton
Kendall to Everton (1997)
Alladyce to Everton
Alladyce to Newcastle
Alladyce to Sunderland
Alladyce to Palace
Pearce to City
Sherwood to Spurs
Moyes to United
Hodgson to Liverpool

Need I go on....

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Offline Yosser0_0

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16766 on: June 16, 2019, 04:50:47 PM »
Spending big money on top players. There's no secret to it.

Umm, bit of a lazy post that. It hasn't worked at other clubs has it, like United and other big wealthy clubs on the continent. These top players don't just happen to turn up by magic, someone has to glue it all together - identify, negotiate, contract - who is doing that, who is pulling the strings, who decides the strategy. Actually I think you've missed the point I was making in my post.
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Offline L8Craig

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16767 on: June 16, 2019, 04:55:46 PM »
Its known as being ruthless and being ruthless shouldn't preclude you from being successful, in fact it's probably a key attribute in becoming successful. So Chelsea finished 3rd, qualified for the Champions league and won the UEFA cup so it was another successful season for them. Since 2004 they have won the Champions league and multiple Premier league, UEFA and domestic cup titles, now I wouldn't mind that level of success. So since 2004 they have either been very successful or moderately successful and remained there or thereabouts without having a permanent manager so to speak. People seem to have this utopian view on how a club is run whereby the team manager is the key to everything, he is the leader and the figurehead, we certainly seem to need that as do many other clubs - but they don't. Their business model is different, they obviously have a great set up there in terms of scouting, recruitment and coaching etc. It has continuity and is stable and has the added advantage that it isn't reliant upon a long serving manager in order to remain successful. If you look at many large successful companies (there are exceptions) they don't fall apart when a key individual leaves them yet many football clubs do, including our own and it seems to take them years to rebuild every time. If anything we should take note and try and learn about what makes them so resilient despite such frequent managerial changes. I appreciate we have a different culture and ethos but lessons can still be learned, they were nowhere before this owner and are still in the mix now.
Since then we have been in 4 Champions League finals.
Came mm's away from winning the league 3 times.
Beat by Chelsea in 2012 FA Cup final
Lost on pens in 2016 League cup final to City
Lost the Europa league final in 2016 to Sevilla

Someone has to win the match at the end of the day and It could have been us on any of them nights.

Can't knock them, they had some spine of Cech - Terry - Lampard - Drogba for some years. On the wages they were on and in London, where else would have they went in the world?

The past few seasons Hazard has been unreal for them. He has been to them what Messi and Ronaldo have been to Barca and Real.

Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16768 on: June 16, 2019, 05:02:59 PM »
Absolute joke of a club

No Manager
Transfer ban
No Hazard
No real transfer policy
Ran by morons

Offline L8Craig

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16769 on: June 16, 2019, 05:04:48 PM »
Absolute joke of a club

No Manager
Transfer ban
No Hazard
It's hilarious really. They have got some potentially decent players but still, I think it will be a hard season for them this year, especially with champions league aswell.

The title of this thread just sums them up so easily.

Offline Adeemo

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16770 on: June 16, 2019, 05:11:30 PM »
So is this transfer ban actually going to stand and start with this window? Or is there still a chance for them to appeal and get it delayed?
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Offline mattD

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16771 on: June 16, 2019, 05:14:05 PM »
Their decision to sack Mourinho in 2007 has sort of haunted them ever since. It's the single worst decision any club has ever made in Premier League history, they booted him at the peak of his powers in some weird tantrum Roman threw over one bad result at Villa. That changed both Mourinho into a paranoid man and Chelsea for the worse results-wise. Although both won trophies since, including that 2015 league title together, it was never quite the same again.

I concur with the post that followed.

Us sacking Rafa for Roy Hodgson defies belief in terms of its stupidity.

Also, Mourinho was always paranoid! It’s only after Inter that it started to wear him down.

Offline StormyDog

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16772 on: June 16, 2019, 05:51:53 PM »
He also had our most successful manager on board as an adviser, had the bootroom staff intact, and the best spending power in England, with no Europe to contend with. Different set of circumstances.
Agreed that the football world has moved on PoP, but by the time Gerrard applies for the no one can say what experiences he will have.
I have not heard anyone having a chance to get Kloop from his current job this summer.
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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16773 on: June 16, 2019, 06:08:21 PM »
Soccer Aid tonight will be the most entertaining football seen at Stamford Bridge for a while.

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16774 on: June 16, 2019, 06:11:51 PM »
Agreed that the football world has moved on PoP, but by the time Gerrard applies for the no one can say what experiences he will have.
I have not heard anyone having a chance to get Kloop from his current job this summer.


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Offline Linudden

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16775 on: June 16, 2019, 08:06:03 PM »
I concur with the post that followed.

Us sacking Rafa for Roy Hodgson defies belief in terms of its stupidity.

Also, Mourinho was always paranoid! It’s only after Inter that it started to wear him down.

Easy now. I disagreed with Rafa getting the boot, but for a club like us to finish 7th and crashing out the the CL group back then was seen as a complete fiasco - even with all the stuff around the club. Replacing him with Hodgson was plain dumb when Pellegrini was available, which made it look even sillier, but I could sense why someone like Purslow - who never understood Liverpool - would let Rafa go since all that regime cared about was just "top four - milk the club or bust".

Mourinho on the other hand, the guy had led them to two dominant league titles, had been unlucky not to win the Champions League in 2005 or 2007 and had only narrowly gotten edged by United the season before. Since sacking him, Roman has squandered what would've been the greatest dynasty in English football of all time if Mourinho had remained there in his prime. Just imagine how many more titles he'd clocked up until 2015 or so? It really changed the aura of Chelsea from an invincible club, whom defeating required 110 % effort, to just a normal top club - one of many. They had some hurrahs after too, sure, but nothing like what I believe they'd done with Mourinho and those core players.

That he eventually fell off a cliff ability-wise after 2015, is another matter altogether and definitely one to rejoice  ;D In all seriousness, they replaced Mourinho with Avram Grant (!) of all people. Looking at what Grant did after Chelsea, it really says it all about Mourinho's structure at the peak of his powers, that they almost won it in Moscow. Chelsea back then was a mean killing machine that he had drilled into perfection and a self-playing piano. No more. No less. Let's not devalue what he was back then.

The guy won the Champions League fair and square with FC Porto and he made Ferguson and Wenger look silly the first couple of years at Stamford Bridge. The only man who had a chance against him one-on-one in those years was Rafa with those crazy knockout games that were all about one goal over two games or thereabouts.

The whole point really is: Chelsea had something that really worked in 2007, whereas we didn't have it in 2010. Therefore it's not really comparable to me.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 08:45:21 PM by Linudden »

Offline Sangria

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16776 on: June 16, 2019, 08:13:07 PM »
When did they lose that sporting director who was ever present during that procession of managers? How much influence did he have on the structure at Chelsea?
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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16777 on: June 16, 2019, 08:43:43 PM »
When did they lose that sporting director who was ever present during that procession of managers? How much influence did he have on the structure at Chelsea?

Emenalo?

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Offline RedSince86

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16778 on: June 16, 2019, 08:48:09 PM »
Emenalo?

Went to Monaco in 2017, I think...
He got sacked at Monaco earlier this year.
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Offline Yosser0_0

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16779 on: June 16, 2019, 09:06:50 PM »
Since then we have been in 4 Champions League finals.
Came mm's away from winning the league 3 times.
Beat by Chelsea in 2012 FA Cup final
Lost on pens in 2016 League cup final to City
Lost the Europa league final in 2016 to Sevilla


Someone has to win the match at the end of the day and It could have been us on any of them nights.

Can't knock them, they had some spine of Cech - Terry - Lampard - Drogba for some years. On the wages they were on and in London, where else would have they went in the world?

The past few seasons Hazard has been unreal for them. He has been to them what Messi and Ronaldo have been to Barca and Real.

Liverpool football club does not measure itself by the number of finals it gets to, otherwise we'd have a finals board next to the honours board and I don't think they should either. You can't dress it up any other way, our trophy return has been poor for the last fifteen years given our history and stature. The teams and players from previous era's probably would have got over the line in a few of those finals, a ruthless streak. That's what was great to see in Madrid, a gutsy ugly win ground out and a cup at the end.

Look I can't stand Chelsea, the club, the owner, the players and worse of all the fanbase but I have to respect their achievements albeit begrudgingly. Not to do so and simply ignore their success smacks of downright bitterness. In fact there are parallels with this thread and the Everton thread in that we know we have a good side and have the facts and now a cup to back it up, yet the bitters consider us lucky AND shite!

I mean look at when Chelsea had their implosion a few years ago under Mourhnio, what did they do? Get a new manager and then win the Premier League, that shows resilience and a good setup and it grates but I'm actually more annoyed that we were unable to challenge. I don't think it was a particularly high standard that year but they unlike us got their act together. I hope people are right and they start to fall away but it isn't a given in my eyes, time will tell.
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Offline Jack The Lad

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16780 on: June 16, 2019, 09:27:19 PM »
Fuckin idiots. Letting an excellent coach like Sarri leave after disparaging him constantly. Be careful what you wish for.

They deserve all the failure that’s coming their way. Lampard in charge is going to be a hell of a lot of fun.

The Europa League trophy was the first one he’s won in his managerial career. Is he really that good a coach?  He’ll more than likely win a few leagues with Juve but that’s the equivalent of winning the Scottish league. It’s to be expected.

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16781 on: June 16, 2019, 09:43:06 PM »
The Europa League trophy was the first one he’s won in his managerial career. Is he really that good a coach?  He’ll more than likely win a few leagues with Juve but that’s the equivalent of winning the Scottish league. It’s to be expected.

How many should he have won given he was at small clubs until Napoli and then competing against Juventus, the team who should be winning it every year. Could have won the odd domestic cup I guess but that’s the same claim you could level at Klopp. Think he had Napoli second twice, once with over 90 points. Couldn’t expect much more really.

Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16782 on: June 16, 2019, 09:53:32 PM »
The Europa League trophy was the first one he’s won in his managerial career. Is he really that good a coach?  He’ll more than likely win a few leagues with Juve but that’s the equivalent of winning the Scottish league. It’s to be expected.

So he's a shit coach for not winning trophies but then if he does win trophies it won't mean anything? OK.
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Offline Jack The Lad

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16783 on: June 16, 2019, 10:15:55 PM »
So he's a shit coach for not winning trophies but then if he does win trophies it won't mean anything? OK.

Didn’t say he was shit did I?  Or if I did then please point it out ::)

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16784 on: June 16, 2019, 10:17:24 PM »
Slack? from their fans? They were calling him a traitor after he left then joined City (who aren’t exactly big rivals - except maybe in the oil business). They turned on their most successful manager pretty easily and regularly want managers gone even after they’ve won big trophies. Sarri had a good season,  finishing 3rd behind the best pair of teams the premier league has seen, when Spurs were supposedly nailed on for 3rd, and won the Europa league, but they wanted him gone because he had a poor run of games (which also shows how well he did to turn it around) and didn’t play exciting football (have they ever? Their most successful period was built on strong defending). That billion pounds they had pumped into them by Abramovich quickly turned their fan-base into one of the most entitled around.

All true. I retract my comment :P
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Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16785 on: June 16, 2019, 10:20:39 PM »
Didn’t say he was shit did I?  Or if I did then please point it out ::)

Apologies. So he's not a good coach because he hasn't won any trophies but then if he does win trophies they won't mean anything?
And if the rain stops, and everything's dry.. she would cry, just so I could drink tears from her eyes.

Offline Jack The Lad

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16786 on: June 16, 2019, 10:21:27 PM »
Apologies. So he's not a good coach because he hasn't won any trophies but then when he does win trophies they don't mean anything?

Yawn. Same reply from you. Goodnight.

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16787 on: June 16, 2019, 10:25:01 PM »
Yawn. Same reply from you. Goodnight.

You had an issue with me saying shit.. So I replaced it with what you did say. Just genuinely looking for an explanation. You can't judge a coach on the amount of trophies they've won, especially if on the other hand you're then discounting certain trophies if they're won by particular teams.
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Offline Dim Glas

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16788 on: June 16, 2019, 10:31:38 PM »
Yawn. Same reply from you. Goodnight.

You said 'is he really that good a coach'. Not all coaches follow the same path. Our very own coach didn't have the easiest path. But he was clearly a very good coach when he was at Mainz.
I’m guessing similar can be said for Sarri as it can be for Pochettino.
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Offline Peabee

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16789 on: June 16, 2019, 10:38:30 PM »
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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16790 on: June 17, 2019, 01:09:35 AM »
From our erstwhile colleague Feint Zebra - worth bearing in mind Chelsea have had 3 Managers (+ Steve Holland for a couple of days) since...

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Offline Our No.9 never dives

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16791 on: June 17, 2019, 02:16:06 AM »
Absolute joke of a club

No Manager
Transfer ban
No Hazard
No real transfer policy
Ran by morons

The only thing left to complete this is appointing Rafa as the manger with Luis as the assistant coach.

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16792 on: June 17, 2019, 09:57:54 AM »
Umm, bit of a lazy post that. It hasn't worked at other clubs has it, like United and other big wealthy clubs on the continent. These top players don't just happen to turn up by magic, someone has to glue it all together - identify, negotiate, contract - who is doing that, who is pulling the strings, who decides the strategy. Actually I think you've missed the point I was making in my post.

I think the main point goes back to what I said earlier - that no team who has had 14 managers in literally as many years has no business being as successful as Chelsea have been.

As to the why, well just as they could buy good players they rarely bought a dud manager either. And he was going to a club full of good players where he could add more good players.

They are, or were at least, the very model of what United are trying to do - spend their way out of trouble. 

But United have shit, expensive players and keep bringing in dud managers.  Chelsea just never had any patience to give any manager a chance to build on the foundations.  And since Abramovich lost interest they've started to slide.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16793 on: June 17, 2019, 10:01:44 AM »
Umm, bit of a lazy post that. It hasn't worked at other clubs has it, like United and other big wealthy clubs on the continent. These top players don't just happen to turn up by magic, someone has to glue it all together - identify, negotiate, contract - who is doing that, who is pulling the strings, who decides the strategy. Actually I think you've missed the point I was making in my post.

I haven't. It comes down to good players first. Good management second.
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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16794 on: June 17, 2019, 11:03:33 AM »
I haven't. It comes down to good players first. Good management second.

If you have Hodgson as Liverpool manager, then having any number of good players will not bring success.

Bad management can take away as much as having bad players imo.

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16795 on: June 17, 2019, 02:08:04 PM »
Castles reporting in the Times that Abramovich has personally guaranteed Lampard a minimum of 2 seasons in charge. So the dreaded vote of confidence before he's even signed a contract, marvellous. Can only imagine how this plays out when he has them struggling outside the top 6.

With them having a transfer ban this season, you'd have to think that they'd have to give any manager an assurance like that, even somebody relatively new like Lampard would not want to jump into a club where he had to get top 4 with just their loan army to improve a side that just lot their best player.

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16796 on: June 17, 2019, 02:11:07 PM »
Never win the Europa league..


It’s the kiss of death

Worked out well for Sarri, he got a promotion from winning it.

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16797 on: June 17, 2019, 05:17:31 PM »
Forgot I made a list of Chelsea managers since Ranieri.  Have updated it (apologies for the formatting):

Quote
Claudio Ranieri     17 September 2000    31 May 2004
José Mourinho      2 June 2004           19 September 2007
Avram Grant       20 September 2007    24 May 2008    
Luiz Felipe Scolari    1 July 2008             9 February 2009
Ray Wilkins [CT ]   9 February 2009    15 February 2009
Guus Hiddink[INT]    16 February 2009    30 May 2009
Carlo Ancelotti        1 June 2009            22 May 2011    
André Villas-Boas    22 June 2011          4 March 2012
Roberto Di Matteo    4 March 2012         21 November 2012
Rafael Benítez[INT]    21 November 2012    27 May 2013
José Mourinho        3 June 2013           17 December 2015
Steve Holland [CT]   17 December 2015    19 December 2015
Guus Hiddink [INT]     19 December 2015    16 May 2016
Antonio Conte        3 July 2016      13 July 2018
Maurizio Sarri       14 July 2018      16 June 2019


CT- Caretaker Manager
INT - Interim Manager
Jürgen Klopp does not adapt to English Football.  English Football adapts to Jurgan Klopp.

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Online AndyMuller

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16798 on: June 17, 2019, 05:18:39 PM »
Forgot I made a list of Chelsea managers since Ranieri.  Have updated it (apologies for the formatting):

It’s absurd how much they have won during all that managerial change.

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Re: Chelsea Football Circus
« Reply #16799 on: June 17, 2019, 05:26:59 PM »
It’s absurd how much they have won during all that managerial change.

Aye.  If you discount Claudio, Wilkins and Holland, then it's still 12 managers in 15 years - not counting Lampard yet. 

With patience, and the acceptance that some seasons would be better than others, they could have built something capable of really challenging United consistently.  Instead they just demonstrated the model that, with infinite money, it didn't matter how many managers you went through - as long as the players and managers you brought in were good ones. 

It's a model that Man City have refined to be almost pure; and it boggles my mind that United continue to drop the ball with it, given they are more than capable of doing both of these things.
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