Author Topic: New Kit thread  (Read 3526550 times)

Offline Nessy76

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14480 on: October 16, 2019, 06:34:44 pm »
Football shirts should be sponsored only by alcoholic beverages companies.

Maybe we should get Nike to make the kits and New Balance to sponsor them. Everybody happy.
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Offline Welshred

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14481 on: October 16, 2019, 07:36:36 pm »
Maybe we should get Nike to make the kits and New Balance to sponsor them. Everybody happy.

Think Standard Chartered might have something to say about that...

Offline I've been a good boy

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14482 on: October 16, 2019, 07:55:23 pm »
Football shirts should be sponsored only by alcoholic beverages companies.
How about Chang?

Offline Anthony

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14483 on: October 16, 2019, 08:04:06 pm »
Are we already Champions of the world?  ::)



 :duh

Not only that but we've secured No 7 as well given it's a 2020 badge... :

:champ :champ :champ :champ :champ :champ :champ
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Offline Mighty Zeus

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14484 on: October 16, 2019, 08:43:56 pm »
so what company should we be sponsored by


Off the top of my head, someone uncontroversial like Monsanto, Nestle, Cambridge Analytica, British Aerospace. "Visit Abu Dhabi."
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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14485 on: October 16, 2019, 09:26:54 pm »
yep

sure if we brought back crown paints someone would say its offensive because their husband fell off a ladder painting the ceiling


Ignore Mrs Michaelangelo, she’s always complaining about something.

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14486 on: October 16, 2019, 09:28:02 pm »
How about Chang?

Duncan Jenkins would object.

Offline paulrazor

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14487 on: October 17, 2019, 02:47:28 pm »
Duncan Jenkins would object.
shit

shit

shit on your doorstep tonight
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Offline kb2x

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14488 on: October 17, 2019, 03:47:04 pm »
Regardless of the outcome in court - its surely win win for the club.

NB make banging kits and unique gear - and we continue with that.


or

We get a shitload of money from Nike and templated kits.

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14489 on: October 17, 2019, 06:15:27 pm »
Sorry it's the Echo website, but a bit on the potential kit deal which mentions the all-important distribution angle.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-kit-deal-trial-explained-17101605
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Offline RedForeverTT

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14490 on: October 17, 2019, 09:18:16 pm »
Are we already Champions of the world?  ::)

"New Balance have revealed a one off Louis Vuitton limited edition kit.
Only 16 made & apparently only available for RRP £1000 in NB Mongolian store."

From reddit*



 :duh

Good try but quite clearly a fake. It’s either NB or LV not both because both makes apparel so both brands cannot appear at the same time.

And it has nothing to do with our traditional red so if LV were to make a monogram of it, it would be LV’s customary colours or our red. And this is neither.

Offline lfc79

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14491 on: October 17, 2019, 10:41:53 pm »
So court listing

ROLLS BUILDING
COURT 8
Before MR JUSTICE TEARE

Friday 18 October 2019
At 10:30 AM (All Day)

Part Heard

Commercial Trial

CL-2019-000565 New Balance Athletics, Inc. v. The Liverpool Football Club and Athletic Grounds Limited

Just off Fleet Street, open to the public.

Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14492 on: October 17, 2019, 11:08:07 pm »
Good try but quite clearly a fake. It’s either NB or LV not both because both makes apparel so both brands cannot appear at the same time.

And it has nothing to do with our traditional red so if LV were to make a monogram of it, it would be LV’s customary colours or our red. And this is neither.

Thank fuck for that, had us all fooled.

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14493 on: October 18, 2019, 02:32:10 am »
Thank fuck for that, had us all fooled.
Damn it, I'd already pre-ordered.  :duh
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Offline exilescouse

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14494 on: October 18, 2019, 03:25:10 am »
Good try but quite clearly a fake. It’s either NB or LV not both because both makes apparel so both brands cannot appear at the same time.

And it has nothing to do with our traditional red so if LV were to make a monogram of it, it would be LV’s customary colours or our red. And this is neither.

Saw these in a market here in Bangkok last week, also the normal red and black kits with the same World Club Championship badge on. Purely blag.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14495 on: October 18, 2019, 06:44:07 am »
Good try but quite clearly a fake. It’s either NB or LV not both because both makes apparel so both brands cannot appear at the same time.

And it has nothing to do with our traditional red so if LV were to make a monogram of it, it would be LV’s customary colours or our red. And this is neither.


Offline Medellin

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14496 on: October 18, 2019, 07:26:04 am »
Damn it, I'd already pre-ordered.  :duh

I wore mine pre-season.  :(
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14497 on: October 18, 2019, 07:31:02 am »
I wore mine pre-season.  :(

Ah that was you wearing it with the offical leather hot pant shorts and thigh high black stockings with white ankle bits?

Offline Medellin

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14498 on: October 18, 2019, 07:34:57 am »
Ah that was you wearing it with the offical leather hot pant shorts and thigh high black stockings with white ankle bits?

..and now eveyone knows why you got them too!
Your weekend Rod Stewart has been exposed.  :D
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14499 on: October 18, 2019, 07:42:49 am »
..and now eveyone knows why you got them too!
Your weekend Rod Stewart has been exposed.  :D

Nah, I couldn’t manage to get one. Went the club shop and apparently one pervertson had been in and bought the lot.

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14500 on: October 18, 2019, 07:53:12 am »
So court listing

ROLLS BUILDING
COURT 8
Before MR JUSTICE TEARE

Friday 18 October 2019
At 10:30 AM (All Day)

Part Heard

Commercial Trial

CL-2019-000565 New Balance Athletics, Inc. v. The Liverpool Football Club and Athletic Grounds Limited

Just off Fleet Street, open to the public.

Great, Teare.  ::)

Never gives us anything

Offline CraigDS

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14501 on: October 18, 2019, 07:56:23 am »
Is there a VAJ for this trial?

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14502 on: October 18, 2019, 08:01:27 am »
Is there a VAJ for this trial?

I think that’s being used for the Pornhub trial next door.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14503 on: October 18, 2019, 08:03:25 am »
I think that’s being used for the Pornhub trial next door.

Is that their case against Bobby? As their traffic has halved with all his sexy ass moves being viewed instead of porn?

Offline paulrazor

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14504 on: October 18, 2019, 08:40:27 am »
I wore mine pre-season.  :(
its out of stock, they should have it back in 2022

Sorry it's the Echo website, but a bit on the potential kit deal which mentions the all-important distribution angle.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-kit-deal-trial-explained-17101605

Drake, stinging rejection, the power of Nike and Liverpool's New Balance High Court battle explained

New Balance are trying to cling on to their Liverpool kit deal - but face a want-away client wooed by Nike

A fascinating clash between corporate giants is set to play out in the High Court tomorrow - as New Balance desperately try to cling on to their kit deal with Liverpool.

The American firm has produced the two best-selling playing kits in Liverpool's history, with commercial success fuelled by the Red's stunning achievements on the pitch and the feel-good factor under Jurgen Klopp.


But with the club keen to make the most of their huge marketability, global mega-brand Nike has stepped in and appears to have successfully wooed Liverpool officials with a £30million per year offer.

New Balance claim it can match Nike's offer and say a clause in the existing contract, which is up in May, means it should be renewed.

Talks between the parties have failed and now it is up to the Commercial Court in London, a division of the High Court, to rule on what happens next.

Drake, LeBron James and Serena Williams

According to legal papers filed to the court and obtained by the ECHO, the battle does not revolve around the simple issue of who can stump up the most cash up-front.

Nike's offer of £30million as an "annual rights fee" is relatively modest - compared with the £71million deal the firm has with Paris Saint Germain  - and is in fact significantly less than the £45million fee agreed with New Balance under the current deal.

The allure of Nike's offer comes from its enormous distribution network - and the promise of a 20% royalty on net sales of LFC products around the globe.

Rap superstar Drake, basketball icon LeBron James - who is a minor shareholder in Liverpool - and tennis legend Serena Williams are all name-checked by Nike and Liverpool FC to highlight the weapons in Nike's marketing arsenal.

The court documents state Nike has offered: "To market LFC and/or Licensed Products through marketing initiatives featuring not less than three non-football global superstar athletes and influencers of the caliber of Lebron James, Serena Williams, Drake etc, with such initiatives being used to market certain Licensed Products produced for the start of season 2020/21."

The company has also offered to market Liverpool FC "in a manner that is consistent with Nike’s other top tier UK football clubs e.g. Tottenham and Chelsea."

'Super-charged' distribution

One of the main issues of contention is the promise of 'global doors' - ie the number of shops or retail outlets that each company can sell Liverpool products in.

According to papers filed by the club's legal team, New Balance had promised in 2011 that it had access to 43,000 global retail doors.

However, by the 2018/19 season, the firm had only achieved access to 2,975 doors.

Nike, however, says it can offer sales in 6,000 stores with the potential for that to rise to 13,000 worldwide.

The club says last year it entered into exclusive negotiations with New Balance, according to the terms of the contract, and commissioned a review into the company's reach by accountancy firm Deloitte.

According to the court papers, Deloitte concluded "that a brand like Nike could super charge distribution in a way challenger brands [like New Balance] are not able to do."

The club says the failure to agree a deal meant it was able to negotiate with other businesses, although a clause remained in place stating that New Balance should be allowed to attempt to match any offer.

Club's stinging rebuke to 'contrived' New Balance offer
Far from resigning itself to defeat, New Balance dug in and tried to exercise the renewal option on August 16 this year - saying it could match all the relevant promises made by Nike.

The response from Liverpool FC was stinging, and means questions will be raised as to any future relationship with New Balance should the American firm win in court.

According to the court documents, Liverpool claim: "The Club does not consider the New Balance offer to be a genuine one.

"This is both because of the contrived and unconsidered replication of the warranties and terms in the Nike offer, and because New Balance cannot deliver on those warranties and terms..

"The Club does not consider the New Balance offer to be a bona fide attempt to match the terms of the Nike offer."

New Balance claims marketing and distribution clauses offered by Nike are not "measurable" elements of the offer they have to match to get the deal renewed - but say they could match them in any event.

New Balance aim to "match ambition"

In a statement to The Athletic last month, New Balance said: "New Balance is proud to be the official kit sponsor of Liverpool Football Club.

"Since 2011, when we entered into a record breaking sponsorship with the club, we have delivered two of the biggest selling home kits for Liverpool fans and we continue to match the ambition and achievements of the club as it grows from strength to strength.

"As a long standing and committed sponsor, we are keen to continue our strong partnership with Liverpool Football Club and renew our agreement in 2020. In line with our current contract, we have matched the offer made by Nike.

"As part of the contract renewal process, LFC has called into question elements of the agreement and as such we are asking the courts for clarity on this case.

"Both we and the club are keen to resolve any contractual challenges as quickly as possible and have agreed to an expedited process in the courts."

Liverpool confirmed legal action had been taken by New Balance but say there will be no comment while proceedings are ongoing.

The ECHO will be providing live updates from the High Court in London from tomorrow.
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Offline J_Kopite

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14505 on: October 18, 2019, 09:37:19 am »
Good try but quite clearly a fake. It’s either NB or LV not both because both makes apparel so both brands cannot appear at the same time.

And it has nothing to do with our traditional red so if LV were to make a monogram of it, it would be LV’s customary colours or our red. And this is neither.

No mate, its definitely real.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14506 on: October 18, 2019, 10:00:13 am »
That Louis Vuitton/New Balance mashup is obviously a very good fake guys, thankfully we’ve got someone with an eagle eye to spot the little nuances.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14507 on: October 18, 2019, 10:14:37 am »
Just seen that the Echo is doing a live blog with updates from the hearing!

Absolutely wild to me that something like this generates enough interest for that. What a world ey.

These kinds of clauses (matching rights) are an absolute nightmare and I find it quite odd (and legally, quite poor practice) that the club and it's reps agreed to have anything like this in there in the first place. Probably going to be a very costly error. 

Offline CraigDS

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14508 on: October 18, 2019, 10:16:02 am »
Just seen that the Echo is doing a live blog with updates from the hearing!

Absolutely wild to me that something like this generates enough interest for that. What a world ey.

These kinds of clauses (matching rights) are an absolute nightmare and I find it quite odd (and legally, quite poor practice) that the club and it's reps agreed to have anything like this in there in the first place. Probably going to be a very costly error.

It’s standard practice from everything I’ve read, so not sure it’s poor really. Also not sure how you could possibly know it’s going to be ‘very costly’ or not unless you’ve seen the contract?

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14509 on: October 18, 2019, 10:30:37 am »
It’s standard practice from everything I’ve read, so not sure it’s poor really. Also not sure how you could possibly know it’s going to be ‘very costly’ or not unless you’ve seen the contract?

I disagree on your point that it's standard practice, so can't be poor. It's widely accepted that the granting of such rights is commercially risky and should be approached with extreme caution. The wording should deal with every single aspect of what the "deal" means to LFC commercially and explicitly deal with factors such as distribution and endorsements from celebs etc. If it doesn't then I would expect the courts to interpret the contract literally and this will be limiting for the other arguments. Of course if it's industry standard then it might be hard for the club to argue otherwise, but it doesn't really mean I'm any less surprised (especially due to the nature of these kit deals and the values involved).

It's already fairly costly, because there is a court hearing which costs money.

You are of course correct that I'm just speculating at the moment, and that I can't know the strength of either parties arguments without seeing the clause. I'm just going from what the court has found in similar cases and I'm presuming decent strength in NB's case on the basis that it's made it's way to court at all.

Offline Danny Boy

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14510 on: October 18, 2019, 10:35:20 am »
Are we expecting this to be settled today or is it likely to go into next week?

Presumably if Nike win, there'll be an announcement soon after that they are the official new kit manufacturer?

Offline CraigDS

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14511 on: October 18, 2019, 10:42:40 am »
I disagree on your point that it's standard practice, so can't be poor. It's widely accepted that the granting of such rights is commercially risky and should be approached with extreme caution. The wording should deal with every single aspect of what the "deal" means to LFC commercially and explicitly deal with factors such as distribution and endorsements from celebs etc. If it doesn't then I would expect the courts to interpret the contract literally and this will be limiting for the other arguments. Of course if it's industry standard then it might be hard for the club to argue otherwise, but it doesn't really mean I'm any less surprised (especially due to the nature of these kit deals and the values involved).

Every sports lawyer who I’ve seen interviewed in relation to this seem to suggest they are standard practice. The club seems to think that the wording does indeed explicitly state what that means, it’s NB who are disputing that. The Echo article above gives some indication of what we feel about their case.


Quote
It's already fairly costly, because there is a court hearing which costs money.

We’ll likely get costs if we win.


Quote
You are of course correct that I'm just speculating at the moment, and that I can't know the strength of either parties arguments without seeing the clause. I'm just going from what the court has found in similar cases and I'm presuming decent strength in NB's case on the basis that it's made it's way to court at all.

Which similar cases are these?

Offline CraigDS

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14512 on: October 18, 2019, 10:48:44 am »

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14513 on: October 18, 2019, 10:57:16 am »
Plenty well, no pray; big bellyache, heap God

Online stewy17

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14514 on: October 18, 2019, 11:00:59 am »
Every sports lawyer who I’ve seen interviewed in relation to this seem to suggest they are standard practice. The club seems to think that the wording does indeed explicitly state what that means, it’s NB who are disputing that. The Echo article above gives some indication of what we feel about their case.


We’ll likely get costs if we win.


Which similar cases are these?

Standard practice - yes I've literally acknowledged in the post you've quoted that it is standard practice in kit deals, and I've also said that in my opinion I'm still surprised that they're agreed because they're avoided in most other commercial situations. Thanks though.

I'm also aware of costs rules in commercial litigation, again thanks though and you can google the cases if you like. I'm not your personal law library.

I've made a small comment based on my experience of these kinds of deals albeit in a different commercial setting and I've just said that I believe the court will interpret the contract strictly. I know the clubs arguments and I believe they'll do well to make them successful if the contract does not explicitly make reference to their very specific points. On balance I don't believe that the case would be at a trial if the contract did specifically deal with those points because the courts would not be required to interpret the clauses if it did.

I really don't need you to fire echo articles at me or try to argue my points, I'm not arsed if you accept what I'm saying or not. Take it or leave it. I'm just making a few observations based on my own experience.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14515 on: October 18, 2019, 11:04:19 am »
I'm also aware of costs rules in commercial litigation, again thanks though and you can google the cases if you like. I'm not your personal law library.

Right. So you claim there are cases, yet when someone asks for them you tell them to google.

Yeah sure. Thanks though.

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yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Offline CraigDS

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14517 on: October 18, 2019, 11:07:59 am »
NB lawyer claiming they can match Nike’s distribution as have access to 40,000 doors.

Then begs the question why they’ve put our shirts in about 5% of those up to now.

Also begs that if they did how many would each store get, as given current production runs and how quick they go out of stock I’d imagine maybe 1 shirt per store...!

Online Uncle Ronnie

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14518 on: October 18, 2019, 11:13:02 am »
peter moore

Looks like they’d Scales, Harkness and Ruddock as the players for the kit presentation.

Got the short end of the stick there.

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Re: New Kit thread
« Reply #14519 on: October 18, 2019, 11:17:21 am »
Right. So you claim there are cases, yet when someone asks for them you tell them to google.

Yeah sure. Thanks though.

Haha so you're saying there isn't case law dealing with matching rights in commercial contracts? Because you can't be arsed to look for them? There is literally a football related one from the last few years.

Don't be silly mate, you're the expert here. I'm sure you're not just deriving your immaculate knowledge of the facts based on a couple of interviews you've read and what some football journalists have said.