Author Topic: Luis Alberto Suárez Díaz - 17 goals & X assists worth of 'I told you so'  (Read 569574 times)

Offline TSC

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3000 on: October 6, 2013, 12:54:44 AM »
Lfc 4 a while, heres something for you, mr. statto, read up on 'ceters parabus' - all else equal. Your reasoning is so juvenile, its like a fucking child studying gcse economics saying that a implies b,without taking into account any extenuating factors, in this case - team form, other injuries, time of the season, pressure the squad is under etc. Seriously, for a man with such an affinity for statistics, your knowledge of sample sizes and mitigating circumstances from a mathematical standpoint make you sound like an 8 year old.

Here's something to consider - football is a team game, just because we did well in 10 games without Suarez doesn't mean that he doesn't add to the side. Sure, our PPG is better without him in the side, but you fail to account for an adequate sample size, mitigating circumstances etc. So far this season, we've faced 3 sides that will likely finish in the top 10 (Southampton, United, Swansea). Only 1 of them will be top 6, that's a dead cert.

At the back end of last season (the games Suarez missed), we faced Newcastle, Everton, Fulham and QPR. 1 of them was a top 10 side. You see the quality of opposition over this 10 game stretch you harp on about? Now over the course of a 38 game season, you play every team twice, so you play Arsenal twice, Tottenham twice, Chelsea twice, United twice and City twice. We've had one out of those ten games over this period that you've been talking about. See what I'm getting at?

The only assumption I've made here is that Palace, Villa, Sunderland and Stoke will finish in the bottom half this season. Its a fairly reasonable one to make I believe.

Post Rafa, we're clearly a team (at least in the league) that does well without pressure. There have been countless occasions in the last 3 years when our so called challengers for 4th have dropped points on a Saturday, and we've had the chance to close the gap, only to fuck up time after time when the opportunity presented itself. The pressure was off at the tail end of last season, further skewing your sample size and putting into question your apparent 'inference' from this. Or the fact that the managers philosophy took time to be understood by the players and it was natural for results to be better later on in the season than in the beginning?

I'd love to hear your response to this. Ta



He's the forum clown mate.  Don't bother reasoning with him.  He spouts similar nonsense in threads re Gerrard.  He actually wishes Suarez and Gerrard didn't play for Liverpool.  I think he's some idiot who supports some other team and somehow has evaded the moderators.

Offline deadsetred

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3001 on: October 6, 2013, 01:14:51 AM »
We nearly let this guy go? (The fans I mean)

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3002 on: October 6, 2013, 02:21:02 AM »
Shame someone can't express a different point of view without the howling mob needing to persecute the guy, forums are meant to have differents points of view, not some party line ! Deal with it.
Shaqiri is an important member of the LFC Squad and a steal for the price we paid

Offline Uruguayan36

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3003 on: October 6, 2013, 02:45:58 AM »
According to Goal.com:

 Luis Suárez

Luis Suárez Top of the Match

Marked Anfield return with a goal and was at his industrious best. Still not fully fit, as disappointing second half showed, but didn't need to be fully firing to trouble Palace defence.

Offline Beninger

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3004 on: October 6, 2013, 02:51:00 AM »
Unless he wants to go, then selling him because of what we think we'll gain, is a matter of "two in the bush" for me...

If he wants to go, then we move on...
'Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.' -GC

Offline newterp

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3005 on: October 6, 2013, 02:54:57 AM »
Thing is - whoever(s) you get - won't be willing to die to win. He's a rare commodity - and I'll admit I no longer like him as a person - but what a player.

Offline ThePeetmix

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3006 on: October 6, 2013, 02:57:32 AM »
Unless he wants to go, then selling him because of what we think we'll gain, is a matter of "two in the bush" for me...

If he wants to go, then we move on...

Screw that. As long as he keeps fighting for the team, then keeping him. If he fires us to 4th along with Sturridge, then I doubt he'll be as desperate to move then. :)

Offline Uruguayan36

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Offline Lar Salty

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3008 on: October 6, 2013, 03:11:16 AM »
Some of you need to learn how to accept a difference of opinion without getting nasty and personal. Seems like the people with Luis Suarez related pics and screen names are the nastiest posters here. You lot need to chill.

Having him back has definitely changed the complexion of the attack. I think the giveaways are still going to be a problem against better opponents, but bringing Coutinho back will definitely help mitigate that. Having three center halves back will mean less danger from the counter attacks, too. But, at the same time, we don't seem to be playing possession football when we're in the 3-5-2, so that might be a moot point.

The second half was pretty brutal against Crystal Palace in terms of keeping possession, but Suarez was FAR from the only culprit. Suarez and Sturridge actually developing a partnership has been a joy to see. I'm not ready to say they've formed a real understanding or anything, but they've looked completely simpatico in a few isolated instances. They're going to be a real nightmare for any defense if they can play together. It will keep defenses stretched naturally, and gaps will open for everyone in the attack. Really scary potential there. Especially when Coutinho, far and away our best player in terms of influence in my opinion, comes back. 

Even Suarez's staunchest critics have to applaud his performances in his first few matches back. Looks to have a good attitude, and his movement has been positive for the most part. And who doesn't like goals??? ;D

My only criticism at the moment is that he still looks careless with possession too often, and he has, on numerous occasions, carried defenders into the paths of his teammates' runs with and without the ball. The former is the only real problem; the latter there is easily rectified over time, as it's likely just a result of not knowing Sturridge or Moses very well.


Offline Beninger

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3009 on: October 6, 2013, 03:13:29 AM »
Screw that. As long as he keeps fighting for the team, then keeping him. If he fires us to 4th along with Sturridge, then I doubt he'll be as desperate to move then. :)
If his position becomes untenable, is what I mean.  We all know he wanted to go last window...
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Offline Uruguayan36

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3010 on: October 6, 2013, 03:18:08 AM »
I love this part..."And by half-time the Uruguayan ace had created more chances than most players can boast of in a season''.

Offline Levitz

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3011 on: October 6, 2013, 03:18:26 AM »
Absolutely elated he's back, I don't think I've ever seen a footballer want to play so much. Add in the skill and dexterity he brings, it's a joy to watch him. We are not better without him. 100% of statistical analysis shows that statistics are manipulated to support your argument. He's boss, he plays for Liverpool and leaves it all on the pitch. Who wouldn't want him in their team?
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Offline shawnk

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3012 on: October 6, 2013, 03:22:25 AM »
You guys are arguing with a member who'll use a 5-6 game sample to destroy a player he dislikes or deify one he loves. On the other hand, if you're using such a sample, we need a bigger one to back the player you rate.

Anyone saying this side isn't better with Suarez in it needs to give up on football.

It's silly aint it. The big sample, one season, 30 goals on last season by Suarez. This season, the team has been strengthen with players like Mignolet, Coutinho, in form Sturridge and etc with them further understanding the system set by BR but our team won't be improved by Suarez because the team was exactly the same as the end of last season when we got the results without him? Silly really.

Offline shawnk

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3013 on: October 6, 2013, 03:26:16 AM »
That's all you can say. You have no argument to back your claims. At the end of the day, in terms of form, we are doing no better now than when Suarez was first banned and we played matches without him. That is the truth.

When he is out, our form proved that we didn't miss him.

We didn't really perform well in our first few games without Suarez, we were getting the results. Performance wise is bad bar one game or two.

Offline shawnk

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3014 on: October 6, 2013, 03:33:32 AM »
It's only 2 games. We are actually 7-2-1 if you include West ham where we won without Suarez. As for being 2-0-0 with Suarez, that is a tiny sample size. If after 10 games, we have a better record than 7-2-1, then I will stand up and say I was chatting rubbish and I was wrong. Anything less and Suarez won't have improved our form.

Bottom line is that without Suarez, we have shown title winning form over a 10 game sample. That shows we have not missed him one bit because other players were able to step up and replace what he brought to the team. Since he has returned, we have won 2 games, which is great and Suarez has done well, but why not add the 3 consecutive draws to our sample that we got  before Suarez got banned? or does it not suit your argument?

If you want to compare similar stats, use a similar team to compare. Which is starting from this season. Why?

- Mignolet made a huge difference in preventing us from losing points
- Our defense has been better.

So if you want to use relevant stats, at least use the stats from this season. Not just using one member in the team to compare.

Offline BazC

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3015 on: October 6, 2013, 03:48:14 AM »
This is really good.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/343191/Liverpool-3-Crystal-Palace-1-Luis-Suarez-is-big-daddy

Suarez wasn't the standout player in our attack. Sturridge was as good, and I think Moses also did his fair share, although the 2 in front of him rightly grabbed most of the praise.

Having Suarez back is great, because he's such a class player. But he's not the one carrying this attack. Sturridge now, and Coutinho in a few weeks time will be up there with him when it comes to the output.

The thing Suarez does do as well is bring his reputation as an utterly devastating attacker. He seems to give defenders a lot of uncertainty, and that creates space for not only him, but Sturridge as well. Sturridge is clinical at exploiting that. Coutinho will be as well.


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Offline dazzler79

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3016 on: October 6, 2013, 04:45:35 AM »
Shame someone can't express a different point of view without the howling mob needing to persecute the guy, forums are meant to have differents points of view, not some party line ! Deal with it.

I find this quote highly amusing coming from you, Mr Geoffstrong sir. We all remember your behaviour on here during the 2011-2012 season.

Chill out and enjoy the win.
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Offline goalspaytherent

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3017 on: October 6, 2013, 06:50:06 AM »
Buy Andy Carroll?

If he's available we would be fucking daft not to .......gonna be some player that lad

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3018 on: October 6, 2013, 07:18:40 AM »
Shame someone can't express a different point of view without the howling mob needing to persecute the guy, forums are meant to have differents points of view, not some party line ! Deal with it.

The irony in this is beyond beautiful. Just fucking wow.

Seriously, that might the single most hypocritical post in the history of any forum ever.
« Last Edit: October 6, 2013, 10:19:19 AM by elpistolero7 »
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Offline 21

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3019 on: October 6, 2013, 07:51:40 AM »
When was the last time we had 2 x 15+ goal a year contributors in the league?

We went close in 08-09 with Gerrard-Torres.
Heskey-Owen and Owen-Fowler combos would have gone close too, but don't we've had anyone in the last 20-25 years?


Offline a treeless whopper

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3020 on: October 6, 2013, 11:46:41 AM »
It was always the right decision to force him to stay. He is an incredible player and there was very little doubt he would still perform.

He may not want to be here but he is scoring and playing well, which benefits us.

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3021 on: October 6, 2013, 12:03:59 PM »
Deal with it.


People dont agree with his relentless, (oh dear, oh so relentless) agenda oriented bullshit and thread hijacking and are expressing their opinion - as is their right as forum members ...so I suggest you take your own advice and  <snap fingers> 'deal with it.....girlfriend
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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3022 on: October 6, 2013, 12:17:45 PM »
I still think that we should sell him in January, because we are a better team without him. Imagine what we could do with all that money.

Dunno mate with money there is no guarantee, it'll take Bale-esque money for me to be confident that we'd get adequate replacement and still there is no guarantee that they'd settle in and perform as well as he does. If we're challenging for the top four come January I hope he sees it out with us till the summer. The world cup year, a new baby, his national coach telling him that he needs stability all help us in keeping him. I'll admit my football knowledge isn't as wide as some but I can't think of anyone, no one comes to mind that we can realistically attract to fill the hole that Suarez will leave. Maybe two or three decent players but again they'll take time to adjust.

I think his goal yesterday summed up why the majority of fans love him, the commentator said something like "He had no right to score that." It was the perfect evidence of his willingness to win.
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I've got a feeling that Origi is the real deal, from a couple of games I watched but mainly his interviews there seems to be something about him.

Offline a treeless whopper

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3023 on: October 6, 2013, 12:30:07 PM »
Dunno mate with money there is no guarantee, it'll take Bale-esque money for me to be confident that we'd get adequate replacement and still there is no guarantee that they'd settle in and perform as well as he does. If we're challenging for the top four come January I hope he sees it out with us till the summer. The world cup year, a new baby, his national coach telling him that he needs stability all help us in keeping him. I'll admit my football knowledge isn't as wide as some but I can't think of anyone, no one comes to mind that we can realistically attract to fill the hole that Suarez will leave. Maybe two or three decent players but again they'll take time to adjust.

I think his goal yesterday summed up why the majority of fans love him, the commentator said something like "He had no right to score that." It was the perfect evidence of his willingness to win.

He will probably be gone next year and we could be looking at the ability to sign almost 3 £20m signings. So in that regard we are well set and a decent season and a year of thinking of targets means we could do well out of it.

No chance we should sell him in January though.

Offline The Playmaker

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3024 on: October 6, 2013, 12:30:09 PM »
Thank fuck we didn't sell him. He looks deadly with Sturridge, they have the potential to reach Torres-Gerrard levels, these two. Don't know how long they'll play together as I think this is most likely Suarez's last year here, but lets enjoy it while we can. He might be a questionable character at times, but he's one of the most talented players to ever pull on the red shirt. Lets hope him and Sturridge can fire us to 4th.
Well said. We should enjoy it while we can.

His link up play with Sturridge is fantastic to watch. It feels very natural. Plenty of players have that of course, but some have to work on it to become a better partnership. It is also worth remembering that Coutinho has a pretty good understanding with Sturridge and Suarez.  We've certainly got time to look for replacements. I can't see him going in January either, so with this in mind, we’ve got a year to look for potential replacements – unless we qualify for the Champions League and Luis Suarez has a change of heart – either way, we've got some time to look at other options.

Offline amir87

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3025 on: October 6, 2013, 03:54:39 PM »
My sample's bigger than your sample.

Offline Jizzinho

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3026 on: October 6, 2013, 04:46:59 PM »
I think there's an argument that his style does not perfectly fit the sterile domination possession-based brand of football we were expecting as he concedes possession too much and isn't clinical enough. It may be that for the money we could get for him we could find a player or two who would add to the team more.

But in terms of providing sheer entertainment, skills that haven't been seen before at this level, the winning of free kicks in dangerous areas, the ability to conjure goals out of nothing, the determination to win matches and the cache he gives to the players who are playing alongside him there's only person who can compare in world football at this moment in time and Barcelona aren't letting him go anytime soon.

Whatever the stats for the team say we simply don't have anyone in the squad who comes close to Suarez in terms of quality.

Nothing wrong with advancing the argument with stats that we are better off without Suarez but, if so, we need to examine the stats of the player proposed to replace him. Aspas? Alberto? Suso? Borini?

Whilst he is in the squad we have to find a way to play him - it's that straightforward. It's clear now that our recruitment policy has been to assemble the best quality players we could and build the system around them. Suarez may be the best player to have ever graced the shirt so the talk about dropping him is futile whilst we have the current manager in charge.

Offline kavah

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3027 on: October 6, 2013, 04:59:27 PM »


Is that lfc_4_a_while in the front row with his hand on his face in the glasses?

Ha ha ha.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3028 on: October 6, 2013, 07:26:39 PM »
I find this quote highly amusing coming from you, Mr Geoffstrong sir. We all remember your behaviour on here during the 2011-2012 season.

Chill out and enjoy the win.

Thats because you cannot see past your nose or dont want to?

Suarez the player i rate, Suarez the man i do not, and i rate this club higher than any player,( even the great guy in the stands)  hope you understand now hey?

Chill out fella and nice try!
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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3029 on: October 6, 2013, 07:55:35 PM »
The irony in this is beyond beautiful. Just fucking wow.

Seriously, that might the single most hypocritical post in the history of any forum ever.

you really need to look in the mirror more often!
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Offline duelcandle

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3030 on: October 6, 2013, 08:04:06 PM »
There is not a team in the world who would not start Suarez every game regardless of the system employed by the coach.

Suarez is world class and would destroy any defence with his assists and goals.

Anybody who thinks we should take the money from his sale and improve with other players to me are bonkers and thank goodness don't run the team and I mean bonkers.

Keep it up Louis, top 4 maybe more, do it man.
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Offline markedasred

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3031 on: October 6, 2013, 08:16:20 PM »
I am going to predict here that Luis & Daniel will have more goals each by Christmas than any striker below 7th place will have by the end of the season. Stories are floating around (on BBC website) about Real Madrid having four targets for January already, none of them Luis. Let us hope that continues to be the case.
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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3032 on: October 6, 2013, 08:27:38 PM »
You could sell him for £200 million, and it wouldn't help as I actually think there is 0% chance of finding a player as good in the January transfer window. You can have your Benzema's, he doesn't hold a candle up to Suarez.

I don't particularly like him but he's magic.
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Offline Fowllah

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3033 on: October 6, 2013, 08:39:51 PM »
There is not a team in the world who would not start Suarez every game regardless of the system employed by the coach.

Suarez is world class and would destroy any defence with his assists and goals.

Anybody who thinks we should take the money from his sale and improve with other players to me are bonkers and thank goodness don't run the team and I mean bonkers.

Keep it up Louis, top 4 maybe more, do it man.
It's definitely possible but we need the attraction of the CL first, so hopefully everybody gets what they want come the Summer eh.

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3034 on: October 6, 2013, 08:40:39 PM »
No way can we sell him in January. Infact, we should look to be in the top 4 or at worst 3-4 points behind by then and buy a winger.

Have a stormer, score 30 goals this year and leave for 50 million after we finish 4th. I'll take that gladly.
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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3035 on: October 6, 2013, 08:43:01 PM »
you really need to look in the mirror more often!

The guy who ran around calling for bans and screaming 'agenda' anytime anyone dared mention Dalglish's poor signings or questioning his record in the league in 2012. Seriously, get a fucking grip.
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Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3036 on: October 6, 2013, 09:24:22 PM »
I still think that we should sell him in January, because we are a better team without him.

Nonsense and that's being polite

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3037 on: October 6, 2013, 09:47:23 PM »
I still think that we should sell him in January, because we are a better team without him. Imagine what we could do with all that money.


 :lmao

Offline simsim

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3038 on: October 6, 2013, 10:07:05 PM »

When was the last time we had 2 x 15+ goal a year contributors in the league?

We went close in 08-09 with Gerrard-Torres.
Heskey-Owen and Owen-Fowler combos would have gone close too, but don't we've had anyone in the last 20-25 years?

Fowler/colly 95-96 is the best partnership we've had in the prem.

Offline stevieheighway

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Re: Luis Suarez - my flawed hero
« Reply #3039 on: October 6, 2013, 10:11:56 PM »
I think Luis' attitude was noticeably different on Saturday, last year he was running about like a headless chicken trying to do everything himself, practically exploding with frustration if things didn't work out for him and doing stupid things like following through on keepers and (obviously biting), I was worried for his sanity even before the Ivanovic incident.

He looked a different player out there, calmer, I thought there were a few incidents where he would have moaned in anguish last year where he just got on with it and one incident where he rightly pulled away from a challenge on their keeper (it was clearly the keepers ball) in which I think last year he would have followed through a bit.

I think the 10 match ban, the transfer shenanigans (and the fans cooling off of him because of it) and him having some real creative help and goal scoring competition in Coutinho and Sturridge may have given him a much needed dose of humility.

I know its early days but I hope these observations prove true over the coming games. I might even forgive him......
I'm really looking forward to the future. People can say it's going to be grim if they want but i'm a Liverpool fan...and I don't fucking believe them.