Author Topic: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?  (Read 18964 times)

Offline Keith Lard

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Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« on: January 11, 2013, 06:54:56 PM »
Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson ran the club during our glory years of the 70s and 80s.

Every year RAWK is filled with criticisms of how the club is run financially. Since 1990, we have had the likes of Parry, Moores, Hicks, Gillette, FSG, etc. So much blame is put at the feet of these people re the relative lack of success we have had over the last 20+ years.

What puzzles me is if we are so quick to criticise the men in the boardroom during the tough years, why do you virtually never hear a peep about the men at the top who ran the club during the boom years. Should the likes of Smith and Robinson be given more praise alongside the likes of Shankly, Paisley et al for giving these men the environment and backing to succeed on the playing side?

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Offline exiledintheUSA

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2013, 07:01:29 PM »
I honestly believe when Mr. Robinson left we never, eevr replaced him.  We could do with somebody with a footballing mind in that role of Club Secretary.
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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2013, 07:03:59 PM »
Because back then they were only there to sign the cheques?? Football is a business now, it takes a whole team of individuals and a LOT of work to make a team commecially successful off the pitch. Something these guys would not have had to deal with.

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2013, 07:05:16 PM »
Because back then they were only there to sign the cheques?? Football is a business now, it takes a whole team of individuals and a LOT of work to make a team commecially successful off the pitch. Something these guys would not have had to deal with.

Of course the game has evolved (into an industry) but to have firm, knowledgable stewardship is still necessary.
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Offline Mal

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2013, 07:06:44 PM »
We never have.

We used to be the best run club in the world. It's no coincidence that we were the best club in the world at the same time.

We're miles away right now. Miles away.

Sorry but to all the young uns, you haven't experienced what the real Liverpool way was. It's now a distant memory. Excellence from the very top to the very bottom, every strand of the club, every facet.

I hope it returns someday but right now we've got a long way to go.
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Offline Mal

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2013, 07:07:50 PM »
Because back then they were only there to sign the cheques?? Football is a business now, it takes a whole team of individuals and a LOT of work to make a team commecially successful off the pitch. Something these guys would not have had to deal with.

Bollocks. Who had the first shirt sponsorship deal in English football?
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Offline john_mac

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2013, 07:11:56 PM »
They got too much, pair of c*nts who had us off for years
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Offline annieroader

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2013, 07:22:39 PM »
If you ever speak to Mr Robinson ask him about the TIA sign you may be in for a surprise  8)
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Offline Juanyboy

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2013, 07:29:41 PM »
very good point, been thinking this myself for a long while actually.

It's a thankless task.

In a book I read about Shankly it mentioned that he often had fallouts with them and threatened to leave many times.

Does anyone remember?

Offline El Ninos Black Eye

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2013, 07:30:42 PM »
I think they do. It was a different game then. But the fans who where around then know exactly how much they did for the club and give them the credit that's due. Plus neither of them would ever have wanted to be lauded and pushed into the limelight to receive the praise. They new their job and they did it very well.   
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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2013, 07:38:15 PM »
Did Moores still own the club back then?

Offline jed the red

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2013, 07:43:23 PM »
I think they do. It was a different game then. But the fans who where around then know exactly how much they did for the club and give them the credit that's due. Plus neither of them would ever have wanted to be lauded and pushed into the limelight to receive the praise. They new their job and they did it very well.   

This.

they came from a very different era, and when Shankly's aura still hung over the club. His holy trinity comment still held water. Without being flashy or obnoxious, or full of themselves they got the job done and allowed the rest to do theirs. Whenever i talk of those days, they both regularly feature in the conversation.

Offline john_mac

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2013, 07:45:21 PM »
very good point, been thinking this myself for a long while actually.

It's a thankless task.

In a book I read about Shankly it mentioned that he often had fallouts with them and threatened to leave many times.

Does anyone remember?

I'm not messing, they were a pair of c*nts, always had the fans off.

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Offline Al 666

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2013, 07:56:40 PM »
I'm not messing, they were a pair of c*nts, always had the fans off.



Isn't That a pre-requisite of running a Football Club though John ?
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline john_mac

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2013, 08:00:26 PM »
Isn't That a pre-requisite of running a Football Club though John ?

Not really. I mean things like knocking back allocations, making sure tickets are returned, ploughing tickets for European finals through your own travel agency at huge mark ups. c*nts, they were doing Thomas Cooke's job years before Thomas Cookes. Loads of other things but they treated us like shite, the pair of them.
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Offline Al 666

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2013, 08:07:24 PM »
Not really. I mean things like knocking back allocations, making sure tickets are returned, ploughing tickets for European finals through your own travel agency at huge mark ups. c*nts, they were doing Thomas Cooke's job years before Thomas Cookes. Loads of other things but they treated us like shite, the pair of them.

Yeh I have heard you say that before John but isn't it just par for the course aren't they just all businessmen looking to line their own pocket. I honestly can't think of many of them who are in it for the love of Football.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline jed the red

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2013, 08:10:27 PM »
I'm not messing, they were a pair of c*nts, always had the fans off.



would you have them over recent incumbents?

Offline john_mac

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2013, 08:14:07 PM »
Yeh I have heard you say that before John but isn't it just par for the course aren't they just all businessmen looking to line their own pocket. I honestly can't think of many of them who are in it for the love of Football.

No, not talking aout love of football. Nothing to do with it. Using your position within the club to put a monopoly situation into place and rip off the fans of that club, that's not about not loving the club mate. That is just shite and they were at that every time we had a big game. They were in well paid positions and used those positions to exploit others through monopolies, borderline illegal even back then.

Thats stuff that was open and in the public eye, never mind things that were less overt.

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Offline john_mac

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2013, 08:14:50 PM »
would you have them over recent incumbents?

Robinson, possibly, but probably not. Smith, definitely not
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Offline tony new mexico

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2013, 08:17:24 PM »
Hmmm tough one this.

The club was run with the minimum of fuss back then and 9/10 we got our man in the transfer market. Saying that though, some of the ticket allocations were worse than Athens and rumour had it they actually wanted to seat the Kop way back in the early 80's to increase revenue.
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Offline jed the red

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2013, 08:20:10 PM »
Robinson, possibly, but probably not. Smith, definitely not

But surely Smith over H&G?

And again was it not just symptomatic of the time? We wouldn't put up with their them and us ways now, but back then was there as much discord about them or was it all just hind sight? i only ask because you are the first person i have known to dis credit them.

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2013, 08:24:15 PM »
Hmmm tough one this.

The club was run with the minimum of fuss back then and 9/10 we got our man in the transfer market. Saying that though, some of the ticket allocations were worse than Athens and rumour had it they actually wanted to seat the Kop way back in the early 80's to increase revenue.

It was probably a lot easier to sign targets when you won the league every other year, and there wasnt any oil barons distorting things either.

Offline john_mac

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2013, 08:26:13 PM »
It was probably a lot easier to sign targets when you won the league every other year, and there wasnt any oil barons distorting things either.

& every top player in the country wants to play for you ahead of anybody else. That said, I think that more actually slipped teh net than some would believe.
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Offline TheCharlatan

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2013, 08:27:14 PM »
I honestly believe when Mr. Robinson left we never, eevr replaced him.  We could do with somebody with a footballing mind in that role of Club Secretary.

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Offline tony new mexico

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2013, 08:30:42 PM »
& every top player in the country wants to play for you ahead of anybody else. That said, I think that more actually slipped teh net than some would believe.

United snatched a few from under our noses over the years due to the fact they offered more reddies.
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Offline john_mac

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2013, 08:31:43 PM »
United snatched a few from under our noses over the years due to the fact they offered more reddies.

Not Lou Macari though, he went there to 'win things'.

2nd division title presumably
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Offline pewithree3

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2013, 09:11:02 PM »
Why wasn`t the ground enlarged and developed more in their
era, the difference between official gate figures and the numbers in the
ground were very noticable in those days.

Offline KiNki

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2013, 09:20:12 PM »
Why wasn`t the ground enlarged and developed more in their
era, the difference between official gate figures and the numbers in the
ground were very noticable in those days.

 Sheffield Wednesday were the only club in England in the 1980s to significantly increase their capacity.  Attendances on the whole were decreasing decade upon decade from the post war boom.   Anfield average was about 38k, united 40k etc etc.  Most were content with piecemeal upgrades.   

Offline vicgill

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2013, 09:34:28 PM »
This story is taken from Bill Shankly's autobiography'

"Whatever happens now, I shall always think back with special happiness to one particular period of my time at Anfield which represented everything I could have hoped for in the organisation and running of a football club. That was when Eric Roberts was the Chairman, Eric Sawyer the financial director and Peter Robinson the Secretary. We had a wonderful working relationship, funnily enough, I met the Liverpool representatives at the home of Mr.Roberts father, Robson Roberts, who was a director when I was interviewed for the job.

"When I came to Liverpool the secretary was Jimmy McInnes and he was a very good secretary but the club's success was too much for him, he died. Archie Macaulay the manager of Brighton Football Club phoned me one day and recommended Peter Robinson, I told the board, Peter got the job and was a huge success.
Above all Peter knows people and how to deal with them, he new me. I didn't try to tell Peter anything about his job and he didn't try to tell me anything about mine. He came along at the right time, when the club was becoming more and more successful and the ground was about to be rebuilt."

There isn't much about John Smith but rumour (I remember talking to Eli Wass the head groundsman about it) had it that he was chasing a knighthood, something to do with the Duke of Edinborough award scheme.

"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and making yourself available to receive a pass, it is really that simple"

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Offline vicgill

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2013, 09:36:55 PM »
Not Lou Macari though, he went there to 'win things'.

2nd division title presumably

and ten grand
"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and making yourself available to receive a pass, it is really that simple"

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RIP Ray Osbourne, comrade, epic swindler, and Internet Terrorist Extraordinaire.

Offline pewithree3

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2013, 09:37:17 PM »
Sorry to go on but I presume the average gate figures are the official ones,
there was always a noticable difference between official numbers
and how many were in the ground and I don`t think it was just
the gate men making a few quid on the side.
As well as their being a waiting list for season tickets. 

Offline vicgill

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2013, 09:53:53 PM »
Sorry to go on but I presume the average gate figures are the official ones,
there was always a noticable difference between official numbers
and how many were in the ground and I don`t think it was just
the gate men making a few quid on the side.
As well as their being a waiting list for season tickets. 

If I remember rightly there was a time when players were paid say basic £32 per week, then an extra £5 for every 2,000 people over 32,000 in attendance, then a bonus for a win and less for a draw and nothing for a loss, the actual bonus money I can't remember but that was how that particular bonus scheme worked, don't forget thanks to George Eastham the maximum wage had been outlawed and footballers were no longer slaves. Johnny Haynes was the first £100 per week footballer and he played for Fulham.
"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and making yourself available to receive a pass, it is really that simple"

"Friend, mourn not, though he premature departs, his wisdom marches on within our hearts"
  
RIP Ray Osbourne, comrade, epic swindler, and Internet Terrorist Extraordinaire.

Offline vicgill

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2013, 09:58:30 PM »
Sorry to go on but I presume the average gate figures are the official ones,
there was always a noticable difference between official numbers
and how many were in the ground and I don`t think it was just
the gate men making a few quid on the side.
As well as their being a waiting list for season tickets. 

Those turnstiles must have been easy to fiddle, I also remember the pay booths at the tunnel (Birkenhead end) was shut down and caused havoc when police arrested all the turnstile people, 22 in total
"Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and making yourself available to receive a pass, it is really that simple"

"Friend, mourn not, though he premature departs, his wisdom marches on within our hearts"
  
RIP Ray Osbourne, comrade, epic swindler, and Internet Terrorist Extraordinaire.

Offline flyingcod

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2013, 10:14:10 PM »
Times certainly were different 20/30 years ago - you never ever saw the football club "business" people in the papers or on telly  (apart from  the obligatory signings), but even then they were in the background - when did they start becoming "media friendly"? 

I remember watching motd once with the wife and she asked is he the manager (it may have been Risdale ), I said no, that's the Chairman. Her response was "why are they talking to him then?"  ::)

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2013, 10:41:46 PM »
Heard all the stuff John Mac mentions.  There were all sorts of fiddles going on by those two.  One hastily smothered at an AGM about certain shareholders being given free tickets.  The only astounding thing about that was that the shareholder (who'd discovered what was going on and had been in correspondence with the club), actually got the chance to speak, as unless you were quicker than Usain Bolt with your AOB question, Smith habitually slammed the shutters down and closed the meeting.

In later years, Robinson was Moores' enthusiastic mouthpiece (Moores being gutless) about barring recognition of the HJC by the club.  We clashed at an AGM in 1999.  He was a brute, attempted to be a bully, and was a utter callous bastard.     
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Offline flyingcod

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2013, 10:55:43 PM »
If you ever speak to Mr Robinson ask him about the TIA sign you may be in for a surprise  8)

He never liked it?  Or it was his idea?

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Offline Keith Lard

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2013, 10:56:20 PM »
Quite an eye opener the comments in this thread.
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Offline tony new mexico

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2013, 11:17:10 PM »
We used to laugh when George would read out

'And todays attendance is 46,564'    When quite clearly there was over 50,000. Someone was making somewhere.
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Offline tony new mexico

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2013, 11:18:40 PM »
Not Lou Macari though, he went there to 'win things'.

2nd division title presumably

The lure of the Crossroads and his then potential Chippy was too great a pull.
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Offline rhylred

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Re: Do Sir John Smith and Peter Robinson get enough credit?
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2013, 11:50:20 PM »
Wasn't it Peter Robinson's idea to to build a ground share at Aintree?