Author Topic: Solidarity and tributes from fans of other clubs  (Read 195584 times)

Offline The Tenacious Kennedy

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #520 on: June 13, 2013, 04:40:30 PM »
I can see how the failure of the police caused the problem in 1989 -  but if there were no pens in 1981 why was there a crush - had the police allowed Spurs fans in without tickets or simply over allocated?

Not an expert on 1981, but I think it was the fact that fans were immediately drawn to go through the tunnel rather than the wing pens so congregated in the central terraces rather than sides.  Because some of the pressure in 1981 was dissipated through the sideways movement of fans, this prevented the outcome being as bad as at Hillsborough

The issue has always been distribution rather than overcapacity. 

After 1989, the Health & Safety Executive painstakingly counted every single person in the Leppings Lane crowd from photos & videos.  It showed that the Leppings Lane as a whole was actually under-capacity, but the two central pens were more than double capacity.

 
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Offline The 92A

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #521 on: June 13, 2013, 05:01:12 PM »

To have semi finals you had to have 2 reasonably equal size ends,  there has been a history of problems whenever the Leppings Lane came close to capacity. The capacity was too big for the size of the terracing. I remember one of my Evertonian mates who went home and away and was used to terracing in the seventies coming back from Hillsborough in 77 after I think it was the League Cup replay against Villa and saying he had feared for his life it was so crushed in that end. The capacity was over calculated. didn't matter when Sheff Weds in lower leagues without filling the away end but the problems came when semi's etc where played there
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Offline The Tenacious Kennedy

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #522 on: June 13, 2013, 05:04:25 PM »
This is from Norman Bettison's statement after Hillsborough.  Yes, that Norman Bettison

It describes his experience watching Sheffield Wednesday vs. Manchester City (as it happens) on 22nd April 1970:

"...the terraces had become so full...there was no room to move...I remember, at one time, being squashed against a barrier to such an extent that I was exerting all my energies to prevent injury...I dreaded any goals or near misses as this was followed by a surge of people which caused me to be squashed painfully against the barrier. After fighting my way through a crowd I found a more comfortable position. I had been in very large football grounds before and since but had never experienced anything quite like the pressure that was created in this crowd at Hillsborough."

The experience led him to state in 1989 that "I wonder, now, whether the Leppings Lane terraces at Hillsborough is somehow susceptible to retaining the pressure created in crowd build up"



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Offline Red Berry

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #523 on: June 13, 2013, 05:12:04 PM »
Not an expert on 1981, but I think it was the fact that fans were immediately drawn to go through the tunnel rather than the wing pens so congregated in the central terraces rather than sides.  Because some of the pressure in 1981 was dissipated through the sideways movement of fans, this prevented the outcome being as bad as at Hillsborough

The issue has always been distribution rather than overcapacity. 

After 1989, the Health & Safety Executive painstakingly counted every single person in the Leppings Lane crowd from photos & videos.  It showed that the Leppings Lane as a whole was actually under-capacity, but the two central pens were more than double capacity.

I think that Panorama programme highlighted that very issue.  Back in 1981 the terrace hadn't been divided up into pens so once through the central gate the crowd could still disperse to the sides, which wasn't possible in 1989.
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Offline PeterSwales

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #524 on: June 13, 2013, 05:23:35 PM »
Sounds like they had known for some time that the Leppings lane was a death trap - particular on days when the game was sell out.

To not have a couple of policemen diverting fans to the outer pens away from the centre tunnel seems such a really basic thing to get wrong. When that's combined with the error of opening a gate allowing thousands of fans to come pouring in and not monitoring what was going on in front of your own eyes is unforgivable. But to blatantly lie about these mistakes for decades was probably worse of all.

Offline The Tenacious Kennedy

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #525 on: June 13, 2013, 05:31:13 PM »
Sounds like they had known for some time that the Leppings lane was a death trap - particular on days when the game was sell out.

To not have a couple of policemen diverting fans to the outer pens away from the centre tunnel seems such a really basic thing to get wrong. When that's combined with the error of opening a gate allowing thousands of fans to come pouring in and not monitoring what was going on in front of your own eyes is unforgivable. But to blatantly lie about these mistakes for decades was probably worse of all.

Spot on

As regards the fans going through Gate C when it was opened, there is a video of it here http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=297623.0 in the first post

The crowd going through the gate is remarkedly orderly, particularly given the crushing and threat to life outside the ground, that they had just experienced
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Offline Red Berry

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #526 on: June 13, 2013, 05:45:19 PM »
I've recently had this mental image of Graham Kelly demanding what was going on and Duckenfield just blurting out: "It's the fans!" - for no other reason that he couldn't conceive of it being any failure of policing and that the fans themselves had to be somehow responsible for what was happening.  Then the whole thing just spirals from there because nobody has the guts to admit the mistakes and backtrack.  A response made without thinking becomes a lie becomes a conspiracy because too much ends up invested in NOT coming clean.

Just a few policemen in the central tunnel.  That's all it would have taken.  On the other hand - and this is the truly difficult question - would it have happened anyway, eventually?  That answer has to be yes, imo; sooner or later somebody would have had to have died before changes were made.
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Offline The Tenacious Kennedy

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #527 on: June 13, 2013, 06:00:10 PM »
Duckenfield told Kelly that the fans had forced the gate, and the deaths were the result, when he knew full well that he had given the order to open the gates just minutes earlier.

Then the press got hold of that story, and it started transmitting throughout the world.  And 24 years later, that lie still has a life of its own
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Offline Block G Raptor

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #528 on: June 14, 2013, 05:44:07 PM »

It was a routine operation, but for some reason, it was not enacted in 1989


That reason being an inexperienced and incompetent match commander

Offline PeterSwales

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #529 on: June 14, 2013, 06:50:29 PM »
To be honest I've spent less than a week on the forum and to be honest I can't exactly say that I've been made to feel welcome - I was warned of this before I opened my membership at RAWK. I understand that Liverpool fans resent City and how they have achieved their success but I thought (knowing Liverpool fans personally as friends and business associates) that this wouldn't get in the way of some chat about football and having a bitch about United.

So here's me signing off but I wish you guys all the luck you richly deserve in getting justice for the 96. I still feel passionately about this and hope that you can achieve your goal.

Offline Red Ol

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #530 on: June 14, 2013, 07:04:54 PM »
To be honest I've spent less than a week on the forum and to be honest I can't exactly say that I've been made to feel welcome - I was warned of this before I opened my membership at RAWK. I understand that Liverpool fans resent City and how they have achieved their success but I thought (knowing Liverpool fans personally as friends and business associates) that this wouldn't get in the way of some chat about football and having a bitch about United.

So here's me signing off but I wish you guys all the luck you richly deserve in getting justice for the 96. I still feel passionately about this and hope that you can achieve your goal.

Sorry you feel like that PS.  I appreciate you need to be a bit thick skinned posting on a rivals forum but I hope you change your mind and continue to come on (even if it's just in this section).  There's one or two fellas who post regularly who support rival clubs and who often put our own to shame with some excellent contributions.  You need to try and ignore some idiots (which is hard I know).  Thanks for your support on this subject though. It is appreciated
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Offline The Tenacious Kennedy

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #531 on: June 15, 2013, 08:37:44 AM »
To be honest I've spent less than a week on the forum and to be honest I can't exactly say that I've been made to feel welcome - I was warned of this before I opened my membership at RAWK. I understand that Liverpool fans resent City and how they have achieved their success but I thought (knowing Liverpool fans personally as friends and business associates) that this wouldn't get in the way of some chat about football and having a bitch about United.

So here's me signing off but I wish you guys all the luck you richly deserve in getting justice for the 96. I still feel passionately about this and hope that you can achieve your goal.

Sorry to hear that PS.  Know it's difficult on a rivals forum at first, but hope you reconsider.  Saw some interesting posts from you on the City thread

Thanks for your contribution to the Hillsorough Forum anyway; some things transcend football rivalry
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Offline The 92A

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #532 on: June 15, 2013, 10:10:46 AM »
Echo what others have said. We have some fans of other teams on here who are excellent posters, we have idiots who support Liverpool, we ban more Liverpudlians than any other group ;)
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Offline Rafa_La

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #533 on: June 16, 2013, 08:34:04 AM »
Just Done


Thank you for signing and standing with us.

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YNWA

Offline SpionBob

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #534 on: June 17, 2013, 02:32:23 AM »
Just Done
Thank you for doing that, much appreciated. Please reconsider not leaving-you are very welcome in my eyes, there are always a few idiots if not more with every big club-I'm sure you have your share too so can understand.
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Offline The Tenacious Kennedy

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I know that this thread is for tributes from other clubs, and that these banners are from Liverpool fans in Indonesia, but there is something humbling about fans from the other side of the Earth supporting the campaign for justice, and just wanted to mark their contribution
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Offline The Tenacious Kennedy

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Another fantastic gesture from LFC fans in Indonesia
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Offline RaveDave

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http://www.rangers.co.uk/fans/fans-news/item/4558-fans-to-remember-the-96


Fans To Remember The 96





RANGERS fans will be among a group of people who will lay a wreath of remembrance at Hillsborough Stadium today before tonight’s friendly with Sheffield Wednesday.

Members of the Hillsborough Ibrox Memorial Group will place the tribute outside the ground to commemorate the 96 Liverpool supporters who died there in April 1989.

The poignant ceremony will take place at 3.06pm, the same time as the crush which saw so many pass so needlessly there at an FA Cup semi-final with Nottingham Forest 24 years ago.

A strong bond has developed between Light Blues followers and fans of the Merseyside club in recent years.

United in grief, they have come together to remember those who were killed in Sheffield and in the 1971 Ibrox Disaster, where 66 lives were lost.

Over the last three years, the HIMG’s memorial banner has been regularly seen both at Anfield and in Govan and it will be displayed at this evening’s fixture as well.

The group has also helped to raise money to support families of disaster victims and fund lasting memorials.

HIMG secretary John Mcgivern said: “We collected the wreath yesterday and will be laying it down this afternoon.

“It’s important to us to pay our respects to those who died and we’ll be doing that at the same time as the disaster happened in 1989.

“There will be local Rangers fans from the Sheffield area present as well and we’ll place the wreath at the memorial outside the stadium as we remember those who passed away.”

Offline jinnyjinjin

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Take a look at this from a SWFC forum, sorry if it's been posted before..

http://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic/198193-anfield-bound/


YNWA

Offline The Tenacious Kennedy

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Good effort jinnyjinjin - thanks very much for posting
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Offline Tsar Kastik

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Very fine gesture jinny
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Offline PaisleyPrint

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Take a look at this from a SWFC forum, sorry if it's been posted before..

http://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic/198193-anfield-bound/


YNWA

Brilliant gesture and a fantastic response, thank you.

Offline The Tenacious Kennedy

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Another one from Liverpool fans, this time from Ireland, organised by RAWKs own Block G Raptor

Maith thú
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Offline Block G Raptor

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Another one from Liverpool fans, this time from Ireland, organised by RAWKs own Block G Raptor

Maith thú
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Offline mccred

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I know that this thread is for tributes from other clubs, and that these banners are from Liverpool fans in Indonesia, but there is something humbling about fans from the other side of the Earth supporting the campaign for justice, and just wanted to mark their contribution

The Anne Williams Iron Lady banner is absolute class!

Also great job from all the Sheffield Wednesday fans. Truly is touching.
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Offline MsSaintMary

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #545 on: February 13, 2014, 04:42:42 PM »
Saints fan dropping by to wish you all the best for the upcoming inquest. 

I was a teenager in 1989 and was naive enough to believe those responsible for the disaster would be called to account, so was shocked and confused at the disconnect between the footage I watched on the news and the version of events presented by SYP and The S*n.   

I’ve followed the HFSG fight for justice over the years and colleagues in my University department (who are Liverpudlians) kept me informed of progress.  I’ve signed petitions, sent emails, purchased items from the HFSG shop to help where I can.  I’m not blowing my own trumpet here, just wish to reassure you that there are fans from other clubs who never believed the lies from the beginning.  We admired the dignity of the families and survivors & wondered if we could have been as brave.  We’re not all imbeciles shouting ignorant chants from the terraces about Hillsborough.

I, and many other Saints fans, were not surprised at the findings of the HIP report, but we were sickened to learn of the many lives that could have been saved.   

I sincerely hope the families receive the correct verdict at this new inquest & that there will be successful criminal prosecutions to follow.

You climbed the hill in your own way, but there were Saints fans marching in support.


P.S.  Look forward to welcoming LFC to St Marys next month– when our England Lions will tan your hides!  ;-)



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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #546 on: February 13, 2014, 05:11:56 PM »
Nice one MsSaintMary, and welcome.

Offline The Tenacious Kennedy

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #547 on: February 13, 2014, 05:35:14 PM »
Saints fan dropping by to wish you all the best for the upcoming inquest. 

I was a teenager in 1989 and was naive enough to believe those responsible for the disaster would be called to account, so was shocked and confused at the disconnect between the footage I watched on the news and the version of events presented by SYP and The S*n.   

I’ve followed the HFSG fight for justice over the years and colleagues in my University department (who are Liverpudlians) kept me informed of progress.  I’ve signed petitions, sent emails, purchased items from the HFSG shop to help where I can.  I’m not blowing my own trumpet here, just wish to reassure you that there are fans from other clubs who never believed the lies from the beginning.  We admired the dignity of the families and survivors & wondered if we could have been as brave.  We’re not all imbeciles shouting ignorant chants from the terraces about Hillsborough.

I, and many other Saints fans, were not surprised at the findings of the HIP report, but we were sickened to learn of the many lives that could have been saved.   

I sincerely hope the families receive the correct verdict at this new inquest & that there will be successful criminal prosecutions to follow.

You climbed the hill in your own way, but there were Saints fans marching in support.


P.S.  Look forward to welcoming LFC to St Marys next month– when our England Lions will tan your hides!  ;-)

Great post MsSaintMary - really appreciate you taking the trouble to come on here and offer your support
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Offline The 92A

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #548 on: February 13, 2014, 06:15:47 PM »
Thanks Ms SaintMary.
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Offline Floydy

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #549 on: February 13, 2014, 06:27:24 PM »



Ms SaintMary - Great post
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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #550 on: February 14, 2014, 12:53:02 PM »
I'm always going to support you's in your campaign.

This was a few years ago . . . . . no cheeky remarks about my hair you buggers    :wave
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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #551 on: February 14, 2014, 03:16:56 PM »
Nice 1s to B&W Paul and MsSaintMary
Cool down and play

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #552 on: February 15, 2014, 11:56:24 AM »
Solidarity from staff of other clubs!

Don't know when it's from, or if it's been posted anywhere on RAWK before, but I thought this was nice.

Newcastle United dressing room.


I like this and hope the owner of this image is okay with me having it as my profile picture.
Absolute quality! I know Shearer gets a lot of stick for his punditry, but lets be honest he's a legend.

Offline Big Red Richie

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #553 on: February 15, 2014, 02:31:26 PM »
How random's that.  :D

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #554 on: February 17, 2014, 05:25:28 AM »
If you'd asked me before the publication of the Hillsborough Independent Panel Report what was the cause of the Hillsborough Disaster I'd probably have muttered something about not really being sure but it looked like at least part of the cause ... maybe the major part of the cause of the disaster ... was hordes of drunken roudy Liverpool fans.

My only knowledge about the disaster was what I hazily remembered from the newspaper and other media reports of the time.

How things change ...

A few weeks later after spending dozens of hours reading the Hillsborough Independent Panel Report and buying (and reading cover to cover) a copy of Phil Scraton's book "Hillsborough: The Truth" my view had changed hugely.

I was clear to me that a huge injustice had been done.

The pain caused to individuals by such a sustained injustice had to be huge. I'll freely admit to having tears in my eyes at times while reading.

And it's my sense of outrage at the injustice that had been done that is a driver for the research I've been doing.

This link might help you see where my thinking was in late October 2012:

http://hillsboroughwhatisthetruth.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/the-purpose-of-hillsborough-what-is.html

It seems to me that many of the questions that interested me then have still to be answered.

I'm not coming from the starting point of being a Liverpool fan but I'm absolutely clear that the truth about what happened and how it was covered up needs to be fully exposed.

#jft96

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #555 on: February 17, 2014, 05:53:03 AM »
If you'd asked me before the publication of the Hillsborough Independent Panel Report what was the cause of the Hillsborough Disaster I'd probably have muttered something about not really being sure but it looked like at least part of the cause ... maybe the major part of the cause of the disaster ... was hordes of drunken roudy Liverpool fans.

My only knowledge about the disaster was what I hazily remembered from the newspaper and other media reports of the time.

How things change ...

A few weeks later after spending dozens of hours reading the Hillsborough Independent Panel Report and buying (and reading cover to cover) a copy of Phil Scraton's book "Hillsborough: The Truth" my view had changed hugely.

I was clear to me that a huge injustice had been done.

The pain caused to individuals by such a sustained injustice had to be huge. I'll freely admit to having tears in my eyes at times while reading.

And it's my sense of outrage at the injustice that had been done that is a driver for the research I've been doing.

This link might help you see where my thinking was in late October 2012:

http://hillsboroughwhatisthetruth.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/the-purpose-of-hillsborough-what-is.html

It seems to me that many of the questions that interested me then have still to be answered.

I'm not coming from the starting point of being a Liverpool fan but I'm absolutely clear that the truth about what happened and how it was covered up needs to be fully exposed.

#jft96

And very welcome you are too, doc. I've read your excellent work on the Hillsborough forum and I urge those who haven't to do so forthwith. Keep it up, mate.
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Offline gerrardsarmy

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #556 on: February 26, 2014, 10:24:33 AM »
Why Olympiacos fans will never walk alone

When Liverpool meet Olympiacos in this summer’s Guinness International Champions Cup in Chicago, don’t be surprised if the biggest round of applause of the night from the LFC fans is directed at the Greek club’s supporters.



The two clubs have enjoyed a special relationship ever since they met in the Champions League in 2004 – a competition the Reds would famously go on to win that season - and if any further proof was needed about the bond that has grown between both sets of supporters, it was evident on Tuesday night when Olympiacos hosted Manchester United.

Football fans watching the match at home may have been surprised when a picture of a banner paying tribute to the 96 Liverpool supporters who lost their lives at Hillsborough started trending on social media but the banner is not new and can actually be seen in the ground whenever Greek football’s most successful club – winners of 40 league titles – play at home.

Olympiacos, like Liverpool, know all about football tragedies.

In 1981, eight years before Hillsborough, there was the Karaiskakis Stadium disaster. Having enjoyed a famous 6-nil win over AEK Athens, thousands of fans rushed to the exit at Gate 7 to make their way to the stadium’s main entrance to celebrate with their heroes. The doors were closed, however, and the turnstiles were still in place. There was no way out of the stadium and as more fans came rushing down the stairs – unable to see the tragedy beginning to unfold at Gate 7 – those at the front were crushed.

21 fans – many of them young – died. The cause of death for many was suffocation.

What April 15th 1989 is for Liverpool FC, February 8th 1981 is for Olympiacos.



Liverpool supporters, more knowledgeable than most about European football history, made sure that the Olympiacos fans knew that they understood their pain when the Greek side visited Anfield in 2004.

A mosaic was created on the Kop that remembered fans lost by both clubs. ’96 + 21 YNWA’ it read.

The heartfelt gesture was appreciated by not just the visiting fans that night but also those watching at home back in Greece.

Three years later, a group of Liverpool fans laid a wreath at the Gate 7 memorial.

As a mark of gratitude for the respect shown, Olympiacos fans created their own banner that read ‘JUSTICE FOR THE 96’ and hung it on the Gate 7 section of their ground. It’s a banner that can be seen at every game – not just for the match against Manchester United.

Another large banner, not shown on TV, but bearing both club crests, reads: ‘Brothers, you show us the way - 21+96 - You’ll Never Walk Alone’. 

Tragedy may have brought the two clubs together but in Chicago on July 27, it will be a mutual respect between the two sets of supporters that strengthens a genuine bond that is unique in football.



http://www.lfctour.com/news/latest-news/why-olympiacos-fans-will-never-walk-alone
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Offline The Tenacious Kennedy

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Re: Solidarity from fans of other clubs
« Reply #557 on: March 4, 2014, 10:54:39 AM »

http://audioboo.fm/boos/962156-man-utd-fan-francis-made-some-very-heartfelt-comments-about-hillsborough-chanting-at-old-trafford

Class comment from MUFC fan on Radio 5 after the panel reported


Also posters on MUFC Redcafe encouraging people to sign the Hillsborough document release petition

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/e-petition-to-release-the-govt-hillsborough-files.337931/


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Lech Poznan - Hillsborough Tribute
« Reply #559 on: March 31, 2014, 01:35:41 PM »
Sorry didn't know where to put this.

Support and best wishes from Lech Poznan

Dziś wysyłamy szal do Liverpool FC, w hołdzie ofiar katastrofy na Hillsborough. 15 kwietnia 25. rocznica tragedii. Szale zostaną rozłożone na murawie tworząc liczbę 96, upamiętniającą liczbę ofiar. #LFC


Today we send a scarf to Liverpool FC, in tribute to the victims of the disaster at Hillsborough. 15 April 25 anniversary. anniversary of the tragedy. Scarves will be spread on the pitch to form the number 96, after the number of victims. @LFC


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