Author Topic: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...  (Read 80818 times)

Offline Fordy

  • Κασσάνδρα. He's creepy and he's kooky, mysterious and spooky, he's altogether ooky, he's Adam's fa-mi-ly
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 30,972
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #280 on: May 21, 2012, 06:27:36 AM »
Are you really that short-sighted? The aim isn't to finish top 4 and be happy with that. The aim is to finish top 4 so it can be used as a stepping stone hopefully towards winning the thing we all really want. The league title.

4th is nowhere though. Yes getting into the CL and trying to win it is great.

But I want to see a masterplan not just lets get into 4th and see.

Just don't believe that FSG will do what it takes for us to get to number 1.

Offline Vidocq

  • chronologically challenged LFC historian
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,453
  • I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #281 on: May 21, 2012, 06:30:59 AM »
So is that what you support Liverpool for? Generating money.

more money means more top players,more top players means better league position..
"During those days I understood more than ever what 'You'll Never Walk Alone' means."  Luis Suarez

Offline Fordy

  • Κασσάνδρα. He's creepy and he's kooky, mysterious and spooky, he's altogether ooky, he's Adam's fa-mi-ly
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 30,972
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #282 on: May 21, 2012, 06:33:47 AM »
more money means more top players,more top players means better league position..

Does it? I see the second best LB in the world move from Arsenal to Chelsea.

I see Modric wanting to move from Spurs to Chelsea.

Unless you can pay top, top wages and win things it doesn't matter.

Offline dazzler79

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
  • In Rafa We Trust
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #283 on: May 21, 2012, 06:34:16 AM »
Chill out guys.

I think the whole essence of the OP is tongue-in-cheek as Alan has tried mentioning quite a few times.

His question I think is, would you prefer 4th place or Carling Cup THIS SEASON? This season being the anomaly that 4th place doesn't get you into the qualifying rounds of CL.

On that premise, which would be your choice?

Somehow, the discussion has morphed into Champions League vs Carling Cup which I do not think was the intention of the OP.

So here is my 2c worth. For this season, knowing now that 4th place gets us into Europa as well, Carling Cup would be my choice. The main reason being Kenny leaves as a winner.

Having said that, I feel that if it is a choice for Champions League qualification OR Carling Cup again for next season, I would think Champions League qualification is more important. It would give the club a huge boost, more so than the Carling Cup.



I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager.

Thank you so much once more and always remember - You'll Never Walk Alone

Rafa Benitez

Offline keyo

  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,776
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #284 on: May 21, 2012, 06:34:44 AM »
i have seen this loads and i think genuinely lots of people on both sides of the argument are mssing the point......there are people saying that you judge the season a success as we won a trophy, aand that aiming for 4th is merely loser/money talk anyway....and there are people arguing that saying the league cup is a trinket and the champions league is where we want to be and that the real indicator of our season is the league position

from what i can see, both sides of the argument are right....to a degree

there is no mutual exclusivity here, one does not impact the other....and when you reviewthe season, you view highlights and lowlights and judge the season overall.....so the league cup was a high point, and shouldn't/can't be swapped for anything else....and the fa cup run was excellent although resulting in a disappointing end, whilst the league had a promising start but failed to ignite and trailed off, so is disappointing

we finished 8th, so there is no satisfaction there.....plenty of room for improvement and plenty to think about for the management....the league cup and fa cup are considered as indicators of what we could achieve in isolation but they do not indicate where we should be or where we will be next season, they are what they are, a success and a near miss

now generally the arguments seem to be getting used to justify supporting dalglish staying or the decision to sack.....i think the reality is that most people whilst celebrating the league cup win would not suggest that is the only reason dalglish should keep his job, or that it makes the season a roaring success....it does however bring success to the club, and that is something we strive to do at all times, win trophies

those who suggest that the league position indicates our real level of performance and use that to justify dalglish' sacking are, in my view, not looking at a full picture....dalglish did not get the job on a whim, he got the job to bring a united front to the club, to stabilise it in a time when the new owners needed credibility....he has done that, and more in the time he has been here....so as part of his job he has excelled.....the team has not performed though, i hear ou cry, and that is all to true.....and if you did not believe the man could make improvements, or was satisfied with the league position this year, then fair enough the decision to sack is justified......however, i would suggest dalglish had enough in the bank to be trusted to show improvement

unfortunately the arguments are becoming more base and more absolute, and the big picture is not being looked at.....and this is where calming down and having some patience will help....however, i think it is also a time for vigilance and accountability to be the watch words.....
Joey's ate the frogs legs, made the swiss roll, now he's munchin' gladbach!!

Offline Fordy

  • Κασσάνδρα. He's creepy and he's kooky, mysterious and spooky, he's altogether ooky, he's Adam's fa-mi-ly
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 30,972
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #285 on: May 21, 2012, 06:50:51 AM »
i have seen this loads and i think genuinely lots of people on both sides of the argument are mssing the point......there are people saying that you judge the season a success as we won a trophy, aand that aiming for 4th is merely loser/money talk anyway....and there are people arguing that saying the league cup is a trinket and the champions league is where we want to be and that the real indicator of our season is the league position

from what i can see, both sides of the argument are right....to a degree

there is no mutual exclusivity here, one does not impact the other....and when you reviewthe season, you view highlights and lowlights and judge the season overall.....so the league cup was a high point, and shouldn't/can't be swapped for anything else....and the fa cup run was excellent although resulting in a disappointing end, whilst the league had a promising start but failed to ignite and trailed off, so is disappointing

we finished 8th, so there is no satisfaction there.....plenty of room for improvement and plenty to think about for the management....the league cup and fa cup are considered as indicators of what we could achieve in isolation but they do not indicate where we should be or where we will be next season, they are what they are, a success and a near miss

now generally the arguments seem to be getting used to justify supporting dalglish staying or the decision to sack.....i think the reality is that most people whilst celebrating the league cup win would not suggest that is the only reason dalglish should keep his job, or that it makes the season a roaring success....it does however bring success to the club, and that is something we strive to do at all times, win trophies

those who suggest that the league position indicates our real level of performance and use that to justify dalglish' sacking are, in my view, not looking at a full picture....dalglish did not get the job on a whim, he got the job to bring a united front to the club, to stabilise it in a time when the new owners needed credibility....he has done that, and more in the time he has been here....so as part of his job he has excelled.....the team has not performed though, i hear ou cry, and that is all to true.....and if you did not believe the man could make improvements, or was satisfied with the league position this year, then fair enough the decision to sack is justified......however, i would suggest dalglish had enough in the bank to be trusted to show improvement

unfortunately the arguments are becoming more base and more absolute, and the big picture is not being looked at.....and this is where calming down and having some patience will help....however, i think it is also a time for vigilance and accountability to be the watch words.....

Winning helps your mindset.

It was so long since we won something and Kenny could see how important it was to the players and fans.

I'm was highly confident that Kenny would of improved out league position next season without question.

Offline Something Awful

  • is stinking out the feedback forum. Wants a blow job from a velociraptor
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,128
  • Justice
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #286 on: May 21, 2012, 07:02:55 AM »
The "Arsenal haven't won anything and they in the Champions League every season argument" is a terrible one. They're using that money to pay for their stadium. When it's paid off, they'll have a ton of money available to spend if necessary. Their model didn't dictate the need for constant qualification, but that extra money is useful for it.

As for "FSG won't do what it takes" as per Fordy, you have no idea what they will or won't do. Apparently they will fire a living legend after winning a trophy. That's not something you do lightly. And while I think it was the wrong move, it means they're serious. If they weren't, they could have used Kenny as a human shield for the next few seasons, safe in the knowledge that any and all flak would fall on him, as long as he was backed in the transfer market.

Which brings me on to another complaint people have. "They only spent 30 million" or whatever it worked out to. That's called "spending what you make" and is how all businesses should run. In one thread we're criticising Chelsea for buying the Champions League, on another we're complaining that we don't spend enough.

I know this reads as an FSG apologist post. It isn't. They haven't earned our faith yet. We should be vigilant. But the hysteria everywhere surrounding the club for the last year or so is grinding, and should be dialled in. The "fight Hicks and Gillette" mentality has never gone away. You can keep an eye on someone, even be suspicious of them, without being outright hostile. IMO they were wrong to sack a cup winning manager, let alone a cup winning manager that happens to be one of the greatest human beings in the history of the sport. I think they were wrong to hire Comolli (in hindsight of course). I think they have to be careful appointing the new senior management team too. But I won't attack them until I see money leaving the club's coffers, or abject failure on the pitch.
'Despite their  cup pedigree - since they've returned to the top flight in 1962 - Everton have, after today's results, once again gone further in the FA Cup than their much vaunted neighbours. For the record it's Everton 23 Liverpool 22  and 7 ties in 52 seasons'

Offline skooma

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,484
  • Our change into rain is no change at all.
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #287 on: May 21, 2012, 08:17:45 AM »
100% correct, and your last sentence sums up the bizarre charade that seems to be the party line at RAWK these days. Let's pretend that we value a Carling Cup win more than we value being even a semi-competent league team. Let's pretend that it's 1984 again, we're 10 years old, and we are truly made up at the end of the season by our carling Cup. It is a complete falsehood. 

And to answer the original question, I'd rather show solid professional form over 38 games in the ultimate contest - the prem - than win the Carling Cup. And as I said in another thread, people who point to the CC as a great success and deride the aim of 4th as "a lack of patience/wanting it all now" etc. have got it completely backwards. The Carling Cup is the ultimate short-term victory. It gives you a great day out at Wembley and then nothing afterwards. A good league campaign, where you establish yourself as one of the top 4 teams in the country (completely removing any talk of the CL from the equation) gives you a platform to build on for the next season, and the one after that - it gives you a realistic hope that, if you just improve a little, you could potentially be in the hunt for the title next spring.

What I want to know is how someone can say 4th is "wanting it all now". That's the bare minimum to get to the CL, which you still have to play your ass off to have a chance at winning. 4th is largely nothing on its own. Hell, Spurs won't get CL football anyway even though they got 4th.

Offline stewil007

  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,284
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #288 on: May 21, 2012, 08:24:06 AM »
Its a loaded question, as 2 days ago, it had a different meaning.  So whats the point?  Another way to rile up the masses, however tongue in cheek it may be.

Offline benn25

  • Finger licker
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,230
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #289 on: May 21, 2012, 08:27:57 AM »
Carling Cup for this season, 3rd for next (just to make sure).
We just leave them be for a while, take a breather, let them settle, then bang!  All over them like a tramp on chips.

Offline kcbworth

  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,692
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #290 on: May 21, 2012, 08:40:56 AM »
Winning helps your mindset.

Yep. In recent months we've lost more games than we've won and hence were nowhere the top. Sure we won 8 of the 9 cup games we played, but winning only 5 of the 19 league games we played sure didn't help develop a winning mentality, thats for sure!

So, even if the specific motivation of appearing in the competition for the best teams doesn't tickle your fancy, you should want to do well in the league just to ensure we have a winning mentality.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 08:55:55 AM by kcbworth »

Offline Legendary_Nines

  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,072
  • Don't worry, be happy!
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #291 on: May 21, 2012, 08:48:37 AM »
Well if we had of  finished 4th then Kenny would still be here and we would be devastated at Chelsea winning the CL but be confident going into next season.

Offline woof

  • Barking up the wrong tree.
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,702
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #292 on: May 21, 2012, 08:49:36 AM »
The "Arsenal haven't won anything and they in the Champions League every season argument" is a terrible one. They're using that money to pay for their stadium. When it's paid off, they'll have a ton of money available to spend if necessary. Their model didn't dictate the need for constant qualification, but that extra money is useful for it.

As for "FSG won't do what it takes" as per Fordy, you have no idea what they will or won't do. Apparently they will fire a living legend after winning a trophy. That's not something you do lightly. And while I think it was the wrong move, it means they're serious. If they weren't, they could have used Kenny as a human shield for the next few seasons, safe in the knowledge that any and all flak would fall on him, as long as he was backed in the transfer market.

Which brings me on to another complaint people have. "They only spent 30 million" or whatever it worked out to. That's called "spending what you make" and is how all businesses should run. In one thread we're criticising Chelsea for buying the Champions League, on another we're complaining that we don't spend enough.

I know this reads as an FSG apologist post. It isn't. They haven't earned our faith yet. We should be vigilant. But the hysteria everywhere surrounding the club for the last year or so is grinding, and should be dialled in. The "fight Hicks and Gillette" mentality has never gone away. You can keep an eye on someone, even be suspicious of them, without being outright hostile. IMO they were wrong to sack a cup winning manager, let alone a cup winning manager that happens to be one of the greatest human beings in the history of the sport. I think they were wrong to hire Comolli (in hindsight of course). I think they have to be careful appointing the new senior management team too. But I won't attack them until I see money leaving the club's coffers, or abject failure on the pitch.
Quite right.

FSG is running a business. It's called Liverpool Football Club. To be truly successful, one needs to run it well like (I hate to say it) Mancs. They are still the industry's benchmark. Perhaps the only blemish is the way Glaziers are financing the club.

Online BarryCrocker

  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,680
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #293 on: May 21, 2012, 08:54:02 AM »
I’m sure the £100k prize money Birmingham took home for winning in 2011 offset the £60m Premier League money they missed out on.

And all the world is football shaped, It's just for me to kick in space. And I can see, hear, smell, touch, taste.

Offline AlexanderKruseBerg

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
    • Luis Suarez skills!
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #294 on: May 21, 2012, 08:55:38 AM »
We should be able to challenge for both.
brclausen Birger Clausen
According to Danish Channel 6. After the game Agger offered Fedinand to meet outside after the game for a little 'fight'

Offline XabiArt

  • No new LFC topics
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,706
  • The passmaster.
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #295 on: May 21, 2012, 09:04:04 AM »
I can't believe this is even a discussion. Winning the Carling cup was great fun but if we don't get top 4 within the next couple of seasons we are fucked big time. We will be replacing Agger and Skrtel with Scott Dann and Roger Johnson, and Suarez for Stephen Fletcher. Then we'll be lucky to visit Wembley again within the next 10 years. Don't think I'm overexaggerating.

Offline XabiArt

  • No new LFC topics
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,706
  • The passmaster.
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #296 on: May 21, 2012, 09:07:44 AM »
Does it? I see the second best LB in the world move from Arsenal to Chelsea.

I see Modric wanting to move from Spurs to Chelsea.

Unless you can pay top, top wages and win things it doesn't matter.

And how do we buy top players - and keep the ones we have - without champions league football. They want to play in it, and we won't have as much money to pay their wages and attract new names.

Get 4th, get better players, compete for more trophies. It's so simple I don't understand how people don't get it. Do you want to be on a par with Chelsea and Arsenal. Or Everton and Aston Villa?

Offline XabiArt

  • No new LFC topics
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,706
  • The passmaster.
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #297 on: May 21, 2012, 09:09:02 AM »
Mind you, Charlie Adam is your avatar so I guess that answers my question...

Offline dumbo

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #298 on: May 21, 2012, 09:13:02 AM »
If a player was looking for a new club, then imho:
"We've improved from 7th to 6th to 4th.  We're a club returning to the top of European football.  We're on course for CL qualification next year, and only missed out this year due to a quirk".

"We've finished 7th, 6th and 8th.  We're a club pretty much stuck in mid-table.  This year we won the Carling cup, which you might not have heard of".

Offline Haemoglobin

  • The Phantom Drive-By Dunker
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,513
  • Nunca Caminarás Solo
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #299 on: May 21, 2012, 09:33:39 AM »
"under-promise and over-deliver"

Offline incredibleL4ever

  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,582
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #300 on: May 21, 2012, 10:00:41 AM »
I don't think the situation is as simple as saying that 4th place is more important than a Carling Cup win.  In football you are always looking forward...to the next match....the next season.....  Once you have won something then you have to think about winning more, or winning it again. 
The relevant question is are you making progress.  Clearly we made progress when Kenny took over.  However the first half of this season  was no improvement on the last half of the previous one, and the second half of this season was far worse than the first half. 
2010-11 under Hodgson = Played 20 pts 25
2010-11 under Kenny = Played 18 pts 33
2011-12 Aug - Dec = Played 19 Pts 34
2011-12 Jan - May = Played 19 pts 18

Just looking at those facts and the fact that we spent 110m gross, 35m net on transfer in the meantime, there certainly is doubt as to whether Kenny was on the right track.
While cups are important, the league is the true measure of where you are as a club.

Offline -RedTilDead-

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Kopite
  • ******
  • Posts: 653
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #301 on: May 21, 2012, 10:06:05 AM »
toughie  :)
"I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are." - Homer Simpson

Offline The G in Gerrard

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,120
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #302 on: May 21, 2012, 10:09:31 AM »
Winning helps your mindset.

It does? Our form since League Cup suggested otherwise.

Offline XabiArt

  • No new LFC topics
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,706
  • The passmaster.
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #303 on: May 21, 2012, 10:17:40 AM »
toughie  :)

Tell you what. Lets win the Carling cup again the next 2 years. And have Spurs finish 4th for the next 2 years. And we will see where both clubs are in 5 years time. Yeah?

The short sightedness on here is mind blowing.

Offline redmark

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,587
    • Save Liverpool FC
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #304 on: May 21, 2012, 10:21:43 AM »
So is that what you support Liverpool for? Generating money.

Do you want to win the league? Do you think an extra £30m-£40m per season is useful if trying to win the league? Would you like us to win more CL/European Cups?
We Are Liverpool.

Offline mccred

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,419
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #305 on: May 21, 2012, 10:22:06 AM »
Well with hindsight, I'd definitely take are season over Spurs.
Think sacking Kenny was a massive mistake, he'd laid his foundations, managed to throw in a few good days out at Wembley and there's not a doubt in my mind we would of been challenging for a top 4 spot next year.
Ian Arye said a really stupid thing with his cups don't matter statement. If you want to alienate your match going supporters, thats a fine way of doing it. They might not matter to accountants but they certainly do to supporters.
Be interesting to see how we approach the cups next season now? Will we try to get out of Europe as quickly as Everton? Will we play weakened sides in the domestic cup.
As for someone saying the Carling Cup is ugly, have to disagree, the Fa Cup cause of its history, probably the best looking, but have you seen the Premiership trophy? Now that's an ugly cup! Designed by a focus group I suspect?
I for one wouldn't be renewing an ACS subscription.
Don't Ever,Ever Buy The Sun.

They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Offline redmark

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,587
    • Save Liverpool FC
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #306 on: May 21, 2012, 10:23:24 AM »
Does it? I see the second best LB in the world move from Arsenal to Chelsea.

I see Modric wanting to move from Spurs to Chelsea.

Unless you can pay top, top wages and win things it doesn't matter.

They're not moving to Chelsea to win the Carling Cup.
We Are Liverpool.

Online west_london_red

  • Knows his stuff - pull the udder one! RAWK's Dairy Queen.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,730
  • watching me? but whose watching you watching me?
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #307 on: May 21, 2012, 10:24:34 AM »
there's not a doubt in my mind we would of been challenging for a top 4 spot next year.

Can I ask what you base that on?

Offline gloryhunter

  • Kemlynite
  • **
  • Posts: 35
  • Say hello!
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #308 on: May 21, 2012, 10:26:41 AM »
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.

Offline XabiArt

  • No new LFC topics
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,706
  • The passmaster.
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #309 on: May 21, 2012, 10:29:38 AM »
If Kenny had got us to 4th. But lost the final, or got knocked out by City in the semis. I'm pretty sure he would still have a job.

So if you could go back and choose what happens, what do you pick. Honestly?

Offline Cre_mCr_cker

  • Green A_my!
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,261
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #310 on: May 21, 2012, 10:33:15 AM »


The short sightedness on here is mind blowing.

I don't know if it's short sightedness or Kenny-tinted goggles. Had Kenny got us 4th this season (without Chelsea winning CL), and Redknapp had won the Carling Cup, would they all be crying that we hadn't won a trophy? I doubt it, they'd be over the moon that he'd guided us to 4th, which as they would admit is a vital stepping stone on the way to competing for the top prizes. I didn't see anyone suggesting that they didn't care about us finishing top 4 at the beginning of the season, a fair bit of revisionism going on. And just to make it clear, this is by no means a dig at Kenny, he's a great man, but some people are so blinded by their love of him that their outlook on football is being affected.
This is a Liverpool forum. We are not talking about Demba Ba's cock.

My feet are wet but my cups are bone dry! Everything's comin' up Milhouse!

Offline redmark

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,587
    • Save Liverpool FC
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #311 on: May 21, 2012, 10:40:39 AM »
toughie  :)

Without googling, who won the CC in 2004?
We Are Liverpool.

Offline Haemoglobin

  • The Phantom Drive-By Dunker
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,513
  • Nunca Caminarás Solo
"under-promise and over-deliver"

Offline scatman

  • Slutty enough to make Jordan blush - and hard enough to piss in the wrong bush! Missing a shift key.
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,175
  • This is my world, you just WORK here :D
    • directions to football stadiums
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #313 on: May 21, 2012, 11:02:28 AM »
where are middlesborough these days?
Would sacrifice Fordy in a sacred Mayan ritual to have him as the next Liverpool manager
Football stadiums in England

Offline redmark

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,587
    • Save Liverpool FC
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #314 on: May 21, 2012, 11:02:37 AM »


Exactly :).

A fourth place finish in 2004 directly led to Istanbul. It led to us signing players like Reina and Torres. It led to us challenging for the title in 2009.
We Are Liverpool.

Offline bird_lfc

  • Would much rather have a good wank than get behind the team.
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,615
  • JFT96
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #315 on: May 21, 2012, 11:04:20 AM »
Let's be honest, if we finished 4th and Chelsea won the Champions League, do you REALLY think Dalglish would of been sacked? Not a chance.

Online Red_Mist

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,948
  • CORGI registered friend (but not a gas engineer)
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #316 on: May 21, 2012, 11:09:12 AM »
Try and win every competition we play in. Simple as that.

For the new manager though, CL qualification is clearly going to be the minimum accepted next season or the managerial merry-go-round will continue. Just hope he doesn't "do a Spurs" and sacrifice everything else to get there (or fail to get there as would be the more accurate description of "doing a Spurs").

Offline Andy @ Allerton

  • Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 59,821
  • “That is not dead which can eternal lie..."
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #317 on: May 21, 2012, 11:09:15 AM »
They're not moving to Chelsea to win the Carling Cup.


They're not moving to Chelsea to come fourth either.
1st Law : A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

2nd Law : A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

3rd Law : A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the other 2 laws

Offline Crosby Wych

  • Stills and Nash Warloch
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,925
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #318 on: May 21, 2012, 11:09:19 AM »
Anyone seriously saying the Carling Cup is better than 4th place (not this season obviously) is being incredibly short sighted and does not care about the future success of the club at all.
"I would say we certainly have the resources to compete with anybody in football." Tom Werner 12/04/2012

Offline redmark

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Believer
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,587
    • Save Liverpool FC
Re: So Fourth Place or the Carling Cup?...
« Reply #319 on: May 21, 2012, 11:13:07 AM »
They're not moving to Chelsea to come fourth either.

They're moving to Chelsea to challenge for the title and the Champions League. It's been said repeatedly in this thread, but who is suggesting we simply aim for fourth? No one.
We Are Liverpool.