Author Topic: Struggling with depression  (Read 359448 times)

Offline PeterJM

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #80 on: July 16, 2010, 10:29:42 AM »
maximus.....not heard from you since July 1st.....you out there?

I pm'd him.....anyone know ...he was obviously feeling very trapped.

I know depression too, thanks for the words from everyone...it's always surprises me how many of us struggle, even in small ways.
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Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #81 on: July 16, 2010, 10:38:28 AM »
How many of you have said the words "I cannot cope with this, this is it, the big one..." or words to that effect?
How many times have you said or thought those words?
And what happened?

Just be aware that your depression may also be linked with anxiety, and the thing you are fucking ace at doing is catastrophising.  Catch yourself thinking, catch yourself listening to your thoughts, believing them.  How often do you do this?

If anyone fancies helping themselves a bit, then read this.
http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/resources/consumers.cfm

Go through the list and read the PDF that seems to fit you best.  It's reading, it's not asking you to paint the forth bridge, and it could make a real difference to your life.

Offline Spongebob Redpants

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #82 on: July 16, 2010, 10:48:49 AM »
How many of you have said the words "I cannot cope with this, this is it, the big one..." or words to that effect?
How many times have you said or thought those words?
And what happened?

Just be aware that your depression may also be linked with anxiety, and the thing you are fucking ace at doing is catastrophising.  Catch yourself thinking, catch yourself listening to your thoughts, believing them.  How often do you do this?

If anyone fancies helping themselves a bit, then read this.
http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/resources/consumers.cfm

Go through the list and read the PDF that seems to fit you best.  It's reading, it's not asking you to paint the forth bridge, and it could make a real difference to your life.

Some good stuff in there . Well worth a read !

Haven't the time at the moment to read it properly , but will have a proper look later .

Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you do criticise him, you're a mile away and you have his shoes.

Offline manifest

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #83 on: July 16, 2010, 03:49:16 PM »
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cheers peterJM.

Offline sattapaartridge

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #84 on: July 16, 2010, 05:00:25 PM »
Gaz, what happened to your living arrangements in the end?

keep the faith mate.  something (or someone) will change your life completely and it wont come out of a white plastic tub.
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Offline Refo

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #85 on: July 16, 2010, 07:29:05 PM »
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How are you doing?
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Offline PeterJM

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #86 on: July 16, 2010, 07:33:34 PM »
How are you doing?
Refo,i'm trying to sort things out in my head but just keep going over the same old things again and again without really getting anywhere.I've always been a worrier but it just seems to have got worse over the past year or so.

Offline Refo

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #87 on: July 16, 2010, 07:48:25 PM »
Refo,i'm trying to sort things out in my head but just keep going over the same old things again and again without really getting anywhere.I've always been a worrier but it just seems to have got worse over the past year or so.

look at your PMs.
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Offline Slightly Less Mediocre Baron Bennekov

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #88 on: July 16, 2010, 08:42:23 PM »
My wife has suffered from depressions years ago. Thanks to determination and seeking help literally everywhere both in the traditional medicinal world (aka western medicine) as well as alternative (ie. healing, thought field therapy - TFT) she has overcome the depressions over the years. She now keeps it under control by excersising almost every day. Excersise releases endorphines in your brain which is the same hormone that makes you feel happy and glad.

I know it's all too easy to just say: "Go do some running, swimming" or whatever; but it REALLY helps a lot.

In Copenhagen where I live there is a privately owned/run school for all kinds of phobias where you can get help. It's obviously not free, but they're really good at sorting phobias. Perhaps a google search for similar places in your area could help you too...

Best of luck mate!

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #89 on: July 16, 2010, 11:36:25 PM »
Quick shout out to all the people who live with a person suffering from depression. It's an insidious, horrible thing because there are no physical symptoms and because it's a personality changer, it's very tough to deal with. The person you love becomes a different person. Anyone who's in that position, well done and keep going.

Offline gerrardspetal

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #90 on: July 16, 2010, 11:39:35 PM »
I've suffered on and off for years.
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Offline gazc23

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #91 on: July 17, 2010, 01:26:27 AM »
Hi guys and gals.

Has been a mad last few weeks let me tell you. Thanks for your words of support and pm's all those who have sent will receive a reply, just finding the time!

I'm ok. living arangements have been sorted. things don't seem as hopeless as they appeared as around July 1st. Made a couple of big decisions and accepted a few truths. Have read every post on the thread and want to say thanks to all of you again. and once i'm settled properly will go into more detail and answer questions that have been asked.
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Offline Red_Isle_Chap

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #92 on: July 17, 2010, 02:49:11 AM »
Hi guys and gals.

Has been a mad last few weeks let me tell you. Thanks for your words of support and pm's all those who have sent will receive a reply, just finding the time!

I'm ok. living arangements have been sorted. things don't seem as hopeless as they appeared as around July 1st. Made a couple of big decisions and accepted a few truths. Have read every post on the thread and want to say thanks to all of you again. and once i'm settled properly will go into more detail and answer questions that have been asked.
Good to hear your OK mate
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Offline Slightly Less Mediocre Baron Bennekov

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #93 on: July 17, 2010, 10:24:44 AM »

Offline Effes

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #94 on: July 20, 2010, 07:02:01 AM »
How to beat depression – without drugs
A healthier lifestyle could banish the blues, says a new book

Dr Steve Ilardi is slim and enthusiastic, with intense eyes. The clinical psychologist is 4,400 miles away, in Kansas, and we are chatting about his new book via Skype, the online videophone service. "I've spent a lot of time pondering Skype," he says. "On the one hand it provides a degree of social connectedness. On the other, you're still essentially by yourself." But, he concludes, "a large part of the human cortex is devoted to the processing of visual information, so I guess Skype is less alienating than voice calls."

Social connectedness is important to Ilardi. In The Depression Cure, he argues that the brain mistakenly interprets the pain of depression as an infection. Thinking that isolation is needed, it sends messages to the sufferer to "crawl into a hole and wait for it all to go away". This can be disastrous because what depressed people really need is the opposite: more human contact.

Which is why social connectedness forms one-sixth of his "lifestyle based" cure for depression. The other five elements are meaningful activity (to prevent "ruminating" on negative thoughts); regular exercise; a diet rich in omega-3 fatty acids; daily exposure to sunlight; and good quality, restorative sleep.

The programme has one glaring omission: anti-depressant medication. Because according to Ilardi, the drugs simply don't work. "Meds have only around a 50% success rate," he says. "Moreover, of the people who do improve, half experience a relapse. This lowers the recovery rate to only 25%. To make matters worse, the side effects often include emotional numbing, sexual dysfunction and weight gain."

As a respected clinical psychologist and university professor, Ilardi's views are hard to dismiss. A research team at his workplace, the University of Kansas, has been testing his system – known as TLC (Therapeutic Lifestyle Change) – in clinical trials. The preliminary results show, he says, that every patient who put the full programme into practice got better.

Ilardi is convinced that the medical profession's readiness to prescribe anti-depression medication is obscuring an important debate. Up to 20% of the UK population will have clinical depression at some point, he says – twice as many as 30 years ago. Where has this depression epidemic come from?

The answer, he suggests, lies in our lifestyle. "Our standard of living is better now than ever before, but technological progress comes with a dark underbelly. Human beings were not designed for this poorly nourished, sedentary, indoor, sleep-deprived, socially isolated, frenzied pace of life. So depression continues its relentless march."

Our environment may have evolved rapidly but our physical evolution hasn't kept up. "Our genome hasn't moved on since 12,000 years ago, when everyone on the planet were hunter- gatherers," he says. "Biologically, we still have Stone Age bodies. And when Stone Age body meets modern environment, the health consequences can be disastrous."

To counteract this Ilardi focuses on the aspects of a primitive lifestyle that militate against depression. "Hunter- gatherer tribes still exist today in some parts of the world," he says, "and their level of depression is almost zero. The reasons? They're too busy to sit around brooding. They get lots of physical activity and sunlight. Their diet is rich in omega-3, their level of social connection is extraordinary, and they regularly have as much as 10 hours of sleep." Ten hours? "We need eight. At the moment we average 6.7."

So we should all burn our possessions and head out into the forest? "Of course not," Iladi shudders. "That would be like a lifelong camping trip with 30 close relatives for company. Nobody would recommend that."

Instead we can adapt our modern lifestyle to match our genome by harnessing modern technology, such as fish oil supplements to increase our intake of omega-3. All well and good. But I can't escape the feeling that the six-step programme seems like common sense. Isn't it obvious that more sleep, exercise and social connectedness are good for you?

"The devil is in the detail," replies Ilardi. "People need to know how much sunlight is most effective, and at which time of day. And taking supplements, for example, is a complex business. You need anti-oxidants to ensure that the fish oil is effective, as well as a multivitamin. Without someone spelling it out, most people would never do it." Ilardi practises the programme himself. He's never been depressed, he tells me, but it increases his sense of wellbeing and reduces his absentmindedness (his college nickname was "Spaced").

It all makes sense, but will I try it myself? I don't suffer from depression, but wellbeing sounds nice. I'm not so sure about the fish oil, but I might just give it a go.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jul/19/beat-depression-without-drugs
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Offline redbyrdz

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #95 on: July 21, 2010, 10:44:25 AM »
How to beat depression – without drugs
A healthier lifestyle could banish the blues, says a new book

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jul/19/beat-depression-without-drugs
I've been thinking about this, and I've got a couple of problems with it. First of all they're most likely right, a healthier lifestyle could help prevent these phases of depression most people seem to get sometime during their life.

But the question is, who is able to change to a lifestyle that includes enough sleep, good food, lots of exercise, daily sunlight and meeting with friends and family often? It seems to me that all that is only possible when you have, for example, a good job that pays enough as not to worry about money, doesn't require working odd hours and doesn't stress you out to much. You need to have enough time to do all the exercising and getting sunlight and socialising. Good food probably means you have to do your own shopping and cooking, which again needs time. Good quality sleep pretty much excludes anyone with small children or elderly people they care for.  Of course, if we would live within bigger families or groups of friends, some of this work could be shared (or shifted to other people - easy to eat well and have enough time when mommy does the cooking). But that again seems not to be possible for many of us, when work or other issues force us to move away.

The other issue I have with articles like that is that they seem to deny they existence of serious medical conditions. While a healthy lifestyle might help a lot of people with depression, there are no doubt also some whose condition can't be helped without the use of drugs and/or more in-depths psychological counselling. Texts like the one above to not seem to helpful to them, and I think there is a risk of somehow blaming them for their own condition, by claiming all could be helped with lifestyle changes.


This, by any means, is not meant to stop anyone from doing the right thing - eat well, sleep well,work out, talk to people. It will help.
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Offline mikeinsheffield88

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #96 on: October 22, 2010, 01:25:39 AM »
No idea why I am posting this here, probably because I am never likely to meet any of you which does make it a little easier.

Been struggling with this over the past month or so (probably longer if I'm honest) Basically noticed it since I have moved back home after finishing university. That's not the only reason I feel this way, its a culmination of things that I am not going to go into but to be honest I don't really know exactly why I have started to feel like this. I try to ignore it but it doesn't go away. Ive looked on the internet, done questionnaires, etc, and have been finding that I am scoring moderately (or higher) depressed. In particular some of the criteria like feeling like you have failed and not being motivated to do simple things, even reading has become laborious. Other factors such as loss of appetite hasn't affected me at all, I tend to find that I am either at the highest level of a symptom or don't have it at all. Does anyone else have this? I think the best way to describe how I feel is summarised in a quote I found;

"Depression is the inability to construct a future" - Rollo May

But the question is, who is able to change to a lifestyle that includes enough sleep, good food, lots of exercise, daily sunlight and meeting with friends and family often? It seems to me that all that is only possible when you have, for example, a good job that pays enough as not to worry about money, that doesn't require working odd hours and doesn't stress you out to much.


I really agree with what your saying there, for me its as if I can't see myself in a few months time; what I am doing or how I will get there. It's all great if you can do all these things but its a catch 22, vicious circle call it what you like type situation. I don't have the resources to make some of these changes, so it makes me down and then de-motivates me to make changes. I have also noticed that whereas I used to be very laidback and would find it easy I am now finding it harder to make key decisions in my life, im not sure if that is related? I started drinking quite a bit after work but that just made it worse the next day. So I forced myself to cut drink out completely on nights I have work the next day but it isn't easy to cut it out completely (not sure if I even want to) because of social events etc.

Been having some pretty horrible dreams too and I presume that it is all related? I am trying to do exercise, I run pretty regularly but haven't been able to for a while because I have a foot injury, my punchbag helps a bit I suppose. Other than exercise and a decent diet anyone know of other methods just to feel a bit better?

Sorry if previously posted but I haven't read the whole thread yet.

Good luck to anyone feeling similarly, because it really is shit.

Offline evie

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #97 on: October 22, 2010, 08:37:24 AM »
Hi Mike

Something happened to me just a few days ago that has made life so much easier for me now. I was been really struggling to find my identity and I just realized a couple of days ago that that is what probably led to my depression and my panic attacks.
Not saying that you are struggling to find yourself but there can be things burried in your subcontious that you aren't aware of, or have difficulties putting your finger on, that are making you depressed.

I have now realized and admitted a couple of things about myself to myself and it's so much easier now when I have accepted certain things about myself that I have been struggling with before and that I just tried to deny.

Not sure if this helps but just thought I'd share my experience :wave

Hope you'll feel better soon

YNWA

Offline Myshkin

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #98 on: October 22, 2010, 10:42:33 AM »
Hi Mike

Something happened to me just a few days ago that has made life so much easier for me now. I was been really struggling to find my identity and I just realized a couple of days ago that that is what probably led to my depression and my panic attacks.
Not saying that you are struggling to find yourself but there can be things burried in your subcontious that you aren't aware of, or have difficulties putting your finger on, that are making you depressed.

I have now realized and admitted a couple of things about myself to myself and it's so much easier now when I have accepted certain things about myself that I have been struggling with before and that I just tried to deny.

Not sure if this helps but just thought I'd share my experience :wave

Hope you'll feel better soon

YNWA


Yeah, doing this will go a long way to helping some people. For me this is perfectly summed up in this song; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXAQKCeccjg. Amazing band. Some people find them depressing, but I find those people don't understand what they were about. Anyway, I digress...

I don't suffer from depression as such, more like social anxiety. It's debilitating affects on my life does make me prone to bouts of depression but I feel it's this irrational anxiety that is the root cause. I'm still trying to figure out how to overcome it but finding solidarity in music/films/literature and even threads like this go some way to helping.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 10:44:17 AM by Myshkin »

Offline mikeinsheffield88

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #99 on: October 23, 2010, 01:22:00 AM »
Yeah, doing this will go a long way to helping some people. For me this is perfectly summed up in this song; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXAQKCeccjg. Amazing band. Some people find them depressing, but I find those people don't understand what they were about. Anyway, I digress...

I don't suffer from depression as such, more like social anxiety. It's debilitating affects on my life does make me prone to bouts of depression but I feel it's this irrational anxiety that is the root cause. I'm still trying to figure out how to overcome it but finding solidarity in music/films/literature and even threads like this go some way to helping.


Thanks. Listening now

Offline evie

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #100 on: October 23, 2010, 11:09:53 AM »

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #101 on: October 23, 2010, 12:03:38 PM »
I'm in a bit of a mild bluey at the moment and hopefully will pass as silently as it arrived . Anyway , I got a text off my brother last night who also suffers from the blueys on occasion . You may have seen this before , but made me smile .

" I'm passing this on to you because it definately worked for me , and we could probably all use more calm in our lives . Some doctor on TV this morning said the way to achieve inner peace is finish off all the things you've started. So I looked around my house to see things I'd started but never finished , and before leaving for work this morning I finished a bottle of Merlot , a bottle of Chardonnay , a bodle of Baileys , a butle of wum , a pockage of Prungles, the mainder of bot Proxic and Valiuminun scriptins , the res of the chesecke an a box a chocletz .

Yu haf no idr how bludy fablus i feel rite now. Plaese sned dhis orn to dem yu fee ar in ned ov iennr pisss. An telum u fukin luvum ! "
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Offline davenorthwales

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #102 on: October 23, 2010, 02:26:56 PM »
if i'm fed up, depressed, pissed off, i try to do something to take my mind off things... play music, go for a bike ride, watch liverpool dvds and vids.
a lot of the time, most of the time, everything comes back..sometimes even worse than it was in the first place.
the things i was doing was just covering up the cracks, repressing it.

i usually try and deal with things mentally and/or emotionally. a problem can be solved by hard work.  but if a problem is not within my boundary, as most problems are caused by external influences.. in other words, someone else cause the endless grief and i cannot do sod all about it and suffer their consequences

can i have my old name back please?

Offline davenorthwales

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #103 on: October 23, 2010, 02:59:08 PM »
sometimes, anxiety is mistaken for depression. there are two things in life - assuming your own responsibilities.. and assuming other peoples responsibilities.
what i used to feel fed up about that was 'mine' was confidence.. say for example when i was 20.. fit, wear nice clothes, go to discos and dances, have laugh, have a few beers..enjoy.  most times i had the confidence to go up to a girl and asked for a dance. other times, deep down there was no confidence.. as most people are afraid of rejection.  or knock backs.  two things kept me going - music and football.

at a later stage, people won't know about this until their 30s, just how big things are.. up until that age, people see life in limited scopes.  if people think they are struggling now, just imagine all the stuff our parents went through.

each person has a different story. work can be a source of depression. home could be. sociology taught me a thing or two.  a persons being is always determined by it's surroundings.  what pyschology does is change the way of thinking - sod all to do with emotions ...load of bollox half the time.. all psychology does is hypnotise you into thinking something postive.  similar to the mind altering drugs doctors prescribe... half the time, pills make people ill for months then they start to kick in.

depression is caused by isolation.. there is nothing worse than having nowhere to go and nowhere to turn.

just because someone is fed up, it's like an infectious disease.. people avoid you, they detect the negativity... friends turn away because they don't know what to say or do.  or even say you are spoiling their fun
can i have my old name back please?

Offline Upanishad

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #104 on: October 24, 2010, 12:47:31 AM »
as most problems are caused by external influences.. in other words, someone else cause the endless grief and i cannot do sod all about it and suffer their consequences

Problems are caused by people's interpretations of external influences. Changing your interpretations - or better still, dropping interpretations all together will really help.
People get themselves into a rut because they continually fall back on their usual way of thinking, the best thing to do is to try not to think at all, learn to become very very very aware of the voices/thoughts in your head, and you will notice it is this that is making you unhappy. i.e. your interpretation of the world, not the world itself is making you unhappy.

a persons being is always determined by it's surroundings.

Again I disagree, it is your thoughts/mental commentary/learned habitual reactions to situations that determine your state. The trick is to always be alert enought to pick these things up and notice them rather than slipping into old habitual damaging mental routines. Best just to drop all these things altogether rather than tyring to replace them with something else. Stay alert and present. (Yes I've been reading too much Eckhart Tolle I know)
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Offline Spongebob Redpants

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #105 on: October 24, 2010, 01:08:11 PM »
Problems are caused by people's interpretations of external influences. Changing your interpretations - or better still, dropping interpretations all together will really help.
People get themselves into a rut because they continually fall back on their usual way of thinking, the best thing to do is to try not to think at all, learn to become very very very aware of the voices/thoughts in your head, and you will notice it is this that is making you unhappy. i.e. your interpretation of the world, not the world itself is making you unhappy.

Again I disagree, it is your thoughts/mental commentary/learned habitual reactions to situations that determine your state. The trick is to always be alert enought to pick these things up and notice them rather than slipping into old habitual damaging mental routines. Best just to drop all these things altogether rather than tyring to replace them with something else. Stay alert and present. (Yes I've been reading too much Eckhart Tolle I know)

Sounds like mindfullness based cognitive therapy . I've been into this for a while now , although I still don't practice as much as I should . Although I have the occasional downer , they are not as severe or prolonged as they were before I went on the mindfullness course .

I've been off the SSRI's for about 8 months now ( which is the longest I've been off them for a good few years ) and at this moment in time am confident I'll stay off them . I'd reccomend anyone who suffers depression to try out mindfulness , there's nothing to lose and it may help a lot more than you'd imagine .It's heavy going at first , but if you persevere I'm sure you'll get some benefit.

We're headed into the long dark winter days now , which is always a hard part of the year for me , but I'm quietly confident I'll handle it better this year than previously.
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Offline davenorthwales

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #106 on: October 24, 2010, 08:26:41 PM »
upanishad, i agree with you (and no, i'm not saying i'm agreeing with you so to avoid some sort of disagreement)  :P

what you were saying about is akin to psychology. training or retraining the mind to conform with a persons environment.. to think or not to think.  to feel or not to feel..

ok, from a sociological point of view, lets take for example say housing conditions.  a person is always going to be influenced somehow by it's surroundings, it's inevitable and influences emotions and thinking..

without being offending anyone, which environment would you say is more likely to be beneficial to someone's well being by nature?



or



that is just an example.. people get influenced by a variety of things
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Offline davenorthwales

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #107 on: October 24, 2010, 08:57:33 PM »
someone who is well off financially can be just as prone to depression as anyone.. just because someone has a bit of money doesn't mean they are happier.  maybe they get depressed because they do not seem to fit in? maybe they become depressed because they are lonely... who knows.

if a child is born and growing up in an environment of 'comfort', they are more likely to be more positive in future years than someone who is not so well off.

most people see their view of the 'world' through their own eyes. the environment and surroundings they are in.. later on, they expand it...

if depression occurs in the uk because of poverty etc, how come people in other parts of the world who live in far far worse situations, do not seem to be depressed?
the only thing i can think of is acceptance and spiritualism.

if we were living in bangladesh or if the squalor was the same in this country, we would be appalled.  but that is our way of thinking as it has been programmed into us.. we find images of bombay or anywhere repugnant through the tv but not many do have the priviledge of visting these places for themselves..

depression and anxiety is caused by many things.  as long as someone has some form of being in control.  probably many people do not realise they are depressed because they are too busy in their own lives.

depression can be caused by ill health. it can be caused by loss of a job.  people get anxious about starting a new job.  people get depressed when a relationship breaks down.... in a strange sense, depression is like a safety net which stops the body from sinking rock bottom so to speak.. we all feel sad about something and those emotions act as a cushion... however, when a person stays in that situation, that's when chronic depression sets in..  when someone is upset, endorphines are released in just the same way endorhines are released when exercising...  ever heard of the phrase tears of joy? tears of relief?  sadness is a release, an emotion.

people do not cry when they think.. people do not get angry when thinking.. people get angry and cry when they feel.

peope don't feel happy when they think... they get happy because they feel... and all these emotions stem from the same part of the brain.

clinical depression is a more serious matter - that is a situation that could be caused from anything to defective glands not producing enough of a hormone or over secreting.. people get swollen glands when anxious because the body is producing too much of a chemical that is designed to protect us from harm.  the same produced when flight or fight.  and when people get swollen glands, they get tired and irritable, draining the body and leaving it weak, rducing the body's natural defences....and on

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Offline davenorthwales

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #108 on: October 24, 2010, 09:28:27 PM »
everyone likes to be well.  people get their source of stimulation from various sources.

we get our enjoyment from liverpool fc.. very pleasent emotions when we win.  harmful when we lose.

other people like to do other things. people get pleasure from tv, dvd, cinema, gardening, bike rides...or even trainspotting (even though i never understand the logic of bus spotting).. even ship spotting is acceptable lol ..

it's the stimulus, the source of influences of wellbeing. sometimes, our sources of influences become our lifelines, dependencies. we develop a thirst or even outgrow the things we like.  and find other alternatives to keep ourselves amused.  some people go bungy jumping as an amusement but that is more to do with ego and bravado rather than a sense of wellbeing..

believe it or not, one primary source of anxiety is....seperation
desire is another.

what causes anxiety? pressure at work, low pay. pressure at work - high pay.  no work.. jobless. car playing up, job centre hassling people, people struggling to make ends meet, relationships, lack of money, high cost of living, being ripped off, anxious about the kids... you only worry because you care ...

if the depression is caused by a little tap in the brain being turned on, somebody turn the tap off ... i suppose there could be two taps in the head, warm for nice and cold for not so nice..

from my personal experience, one of my sources of anxiety stems from having what kind of happiness i have being taken away by the big bad wolf.
life is confusing the best of times... if you are happy, someone will say why are you happy and dislike it cos they are not.
if you are quiet by nature, someone will say for god's sake say something... and when you do talk, they tell you to shut up cos you talk to much lmao
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Offline davenorthwales

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #109 on: October 24, 2010, 09:44:20 PM »
anxiety, being pissed off, angry, depression.

i don't like to see much pain.  day in day out we see or read about things.. we hear about MPs, expenses scandals etc etc.. cops beating up people.. this that and everything.. evolution.. god knows what britain has evolved into. tv culture, x factor lol, boy racers, mayhem, drugs, boredom

nobody talks about the nice things anymore since we live in a so called digital age.  half the time it doesn't work as well as it should - always something going wrong

like that song went, always look at the bright side of life... bright side? what bright side? lol..

think about the time when you were younger..and how it was then and compare it to now

always remember who you are. you are you, no matter what the doctors tell ya
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Offline Upanishad

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #110 on: October 24, 2010, 09:48:22 PM »
The thing about that nice house is that, it will never provide true happiness. It will give a short term false mind made thinking version of happiness, but what about when it starts to deteriorate, or the roof falls in or whatever. It will not last for ever, so to seek happiness in it will only generate some kind of fear that it will get damaged in some way. True happiness or love has no fear associated with it.

As for feelings, feelings are generated by thoughts. FACT as Rafa would say.

If you dwell unnecesarily on your negative feelings (which have been generated by negative thoughts) you will generate more negative feelings etc etc. It is a depressing circle.

If you can stay 100% alert an present in yourself when you have a negative feeling that is all it will be. You will notice it, just notice it without generating any internal mental commentary on it and hence more negativity. Then it will slowly go away, and you will be left with your natural state which is feeling just fine - but without thinking.

I seriously recommend the book A New Earth, (also Power of Now) and Stillness Speaks by Eckhart Tolle. He obviously describes it much much better than I.

John, you clearly have opinions on the causes of depression.
Where you learnt them from doesn't really matter, the fact is you tell these things to yourself in the form of thoughts.
Then you believe the voice in your head, then you get depressed because you're listening to it.

All the best mate, I have to go now but will be back.
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Offline davenorthwales

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #111 on: October 25, 2010, 12:45:40 AM »
i didn't read many books.. just a small handful back in the late 90s.

i used the examples of the buildings.  from my perception, i didn't protray the pictures a symbols of wealth or poverty.  just a protrayal of an example to see which one would have a better inclination of well being.. and confidence.

yes, the second picture looks nice.. possibly the top picture looked nice to people in the 1960's as well.

any house will cost money for upkeep and repairs, they do not last last forever, which is true in one respect but that is not what i was protraying.

i could have used other pictures.. some people actually like living in blocks of flats. some people do not want to move out of them even when they are being knocked down, because they became accustomed to them. it is their home. not a building, not a house, but their home..

back in the 60s, and the new vision of britain, many of these building were sprucing up.  as history tells us, they caused so many social problems.
nothing could be further than the truth.. if anything, even a brand new council house in the 50s looked good.. a living room, a front room,a kitchen, a small bathroom, two bedrooms and a box room... all sounds good and modern... kids come along, kids get older, more kids on the way, and suddenly there is overcrowding, and when they grow up, they like to have their own place and repeat the cycle over again

nothing has changed even a brand new house today in the second picture. two bedrooms etc..

you could swear house designers deliberately create houses too small just to piss people off..

but, people had a sense of community in the blocks of flats, terraced houses.. on one hand people got used to them, one the other hand, people resented them and this is how britain grew up.

poverty is obviously a condition that creates depression, but there was always a sense of community that no amount of money could buy..

as another experiment, if you had two people from different backgrounds, one was living in a flat and the other had a mansion, and they swap places for a year.. who will be the happiest?  i doubt if mr half a millionaire would last a couple of months even though he will be able to pay the bills on time.. the other will no doubt enjoy the other place but will find it harder to pay for the upkeep, but would relish the space.

could it be possible that two people would become depressed if they had to change their backgrounds?  a bit like trading places. but that was a film so it wasn't for real

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Offline davenorthwales

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #112 on: October 25, 2010, 01:32:40 AM »
another thing i found a bit strange a long time ago.  when people live in a city, with all the vast amount of people around, living in a city can be just as isolating.  cities don't have what a rural area has....space....  does a farmer who lives in an isolated farm in the middle of nowhere get as contented as city folk?

some people who move from cities to rural areas find it hard to adapt, just the same as a person who moves from a rural area to a city..

being content with what you got is a key to happiness, wherever someone is in the world.  sometimes, the pleasent things we have seem unappealing when we are down because we get in a rut. and it is so easy to get in a rut and difficult to get out of.

and one of the worst things that can happen is, even though someone has the will to do something about it, they find there are no avenues open to do something. and that leaves further frustration.

i cannot see anyone being content with what they have got when they are working bloody hard to get it.  especially someone on minumum wage. rent, water rates, gas and leccy, food, council tax.. someone working 40 hours a week on minimum wage takes home around £175, and that doesn't even leave enough to go for a quiet pint with his mates on a saturday..

and even worse if someone is unemployed.. how on earth would any government expect someone to live on £64 a week and pay for their gas/leccy/water rates and food as well?.... the path to spiritual enlightenment doesn't work in these cirumstances..

the only way for people to survive is for two people living together.. single people on the dole is next to impossible.. then again, a single person who is working fulltime won't have much of a social life on minimum wage... none at all. which breeds isolation and depression
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Offline Wot_Shanks_would_Say

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #113 on: October 25, 2010, 01:37:31 AM »
John you seem quite thoughtful and reflective. What do you think are the causes for your own personal problems with your mood?  :wave

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #114 on: October 25, 2010, 01:41:43 AM »
Sounds like mindfullness based cognitive therapy . I've been into this for a while now , although I still don't practice as much as I should . Although I have the occasional downer , they are not as severe or prolonged as they were before I went on the mindfullness course .

I've been off the SSRI's for about 8 months now ( which is the longest I've been off them for a good few years ) and at this moment in time am confident I'll stay off them . I'd reccomend anyone who suffers depression to try out mindfulness , there's nothing to lose and it may help a lot more than you'd imagine .It's heavy going at first , but if you persevere I'm sure you'll get some benefit.

We're headed into the long dark winter days now , which is always a hard part of the year for me , but I'm quietly confident I'll handle it better this year than previously.

Hi sponge, I know a bit about mindfulness. However, the evidence suggests that while it is useful in preventing further depression it may not be as useful when actually in a depression as it requires certain skills like concentration which can be difficult when depressed. Cognitive behavioural therapy is a very good option for when depressed or anxious.  :wave

Offline davenorthwales

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #115 on: October 25, 2010, 02:09:04 AM »
depression is obviously caused by social conditions no doubt. 

if someone is working 40 hours minimum wage, living on their own and renting, which more likely to be around £100 a week, there simply is no money left for anything, and even more worse if he has a car to run as well.. if he has a partner who is also working 40 hours a week, they will be comfortable. if the partner is working part time, things will not be as comfortable but only just workable.. if they have a child or two, they are stuffed.

the ridiculous thing about the scenario is, even if two people are working, they are still classed as poor.  and the whole point of work ethics is to break from poverty.
which brings back some social conditions from say 100 years ago.. if you want to better yourself and live in some form of comfort, you have to better yourself..

but, how can someone better themselves when either there are simply no work about or a job that doesn't pay enough wages? i personally believe minimum wage should be £8 an hour.  to create some sort of a life whether single or with a partner having a reasonable comfort zone, has to be earning £8 at least if single or £12 or more if with a partner.. and there aren't that many jobs that pay that much an hour. unless they're an electrician or that type of work. and not many people can actually become an electrician or a carpenter or whatever as everyone would be aiming for the same type of work and creating a glut.. there would be too many sparkies or whoever around and not enough work to cater for them.
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Offline davenorthwales

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #116 on: October 25, 2010, 02:47:17 AM »
John you seem quite thoughtful and reflective. What do you think are the causes for your own personal problems with your mood?  :wave

my mood? personally at the moment, is to seek a resolution for the mess some people have caused. the pursuit for my justice over the last 3 years has caused endless concerns, and has literally reduced me from being an active person to a near wreck.

local councillors, MPs, county council complaints, ombudsman, trading standards, the lies, the cover ups, the whitewashes, and all the organisations involved from the bottom to the top.

when someones home has been intruded after causing some damage and loss of money...

for example, back in 2007 all hell broke loose.  i was looking into taking this so called trader to court who was employed to do tiling in mums bathroom, and he wrecked the place. all the new tiles had to come down, and i was not even allowed to touch anything or remove anything until a hearing, even when some of the tiling was a cause for concern and was posing a risk to injury..

the dilema was, taking the trader to court.. a report from an independent source to confirm the damage would have cost £550 plus vat, plus the court application fee (which is not recoverable in a win).. then i found out that the cost of the report is not recoverable... some building disputes are awarded in damages but not all.

anyway, it worked out that it would have cost nearly £700 to take this guy to court.  what the problem with this is, it would have cost £700 to claim back the £700 lost.

i had to be very careful on how the damages claim was made up... the problem at the time as well is, how much damage will be caused when the new tiles are removed? since i was not allowed to remove the new tiles until the court hearing, how would it be possible to calculate the exact figure?

inevitably, more damage would have been caused, but the replastering bill could not be calculated because only after removing the tiling would determine what type of plastering would be applied.. i couldn't submit two bills, one for a one coat bonding plaster and a seperate bill for a re-render... nobody knew, so unless we had x-ray eyes and a crystal ball, then the accurate figure can be applied to the application.. a judge will throw out a case if it was £1000 or could possibly be £1200 but we won't know until the tiles get taken down... what the law says, according to trading standards, i am allowed to submit a claim for the cost of what it takes to put right.. not for what was lost, but what it will cost to put right... i asked them to confirm it in writing but they wouldn't..

all the work he did has to come out.  so, do i spend £700 to claim back £700?  that to me is a bit self defeatist. nothing has been achieved.. the next question was, do i spend £700 to get £700 back and run the risk of him not turning up in court?  if he failed to turn up, the judge would award the case to me... then, solicitors and bailllifs would have to be employed to recover the cost.... and so on and on.

or, even if he did show up in court and the judge awarded the case as a win, the trader could easily say to the judge, 'i am skint'... even though the trader admits in a letter that his work was not to standard..

so, £700 has been lost to damage, £700 would be spent taking him to court = £1400 ... if he turned up admitting it and he pleads poverty, £1400 would have been lost... and still over a £1000 would be needed to be spent to redo his work.. the reality is that it was possible that about £2600 would have been spent on a bathroom that cost £700 in the first place
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Offline davenorthwales

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #117 on: October 25, 2010, 03:03:38 AM »
so, in the meantime, trading standards were cntacted agin asking them to put down in writing on what the had told me when they visited the house.. they told me i can bypass the professional report..

they told me i could use the estimates i had from other traders to "act as a report".. when i asked them to clarify this, they wouldn't.

when they told me this, i had 3 months left before the expiry date of the submittance.. what i did after trading standards were here, i contacted the legal team on the house insurance.. they told me trading standards should not have told me what they did, and it is impossible to use other peoples estimates because of the conflict of interest... and i was warned it could a year and a half.. and there was no way i was prepared to let my mum go through all that.  she was 79 at the time and the stress was getting to her.

the solicitor asked me if i can send in photos. i said yes. can i send them by email? i asked... yes was the reply... so, i started sending them... the solicitor in london was complaining that i was sending so many... well, i told them it is a bathroom you know and a bathroom has many tiles in them.

in the end, we just gave up.. the only people who can afford justice is people are the rich...

on top of that, there was the other works that were going on.. grantwork.. simple job... total balls up.. more stress. between the two of them, i spent the best part of a year pursuing things... a complaint was made against trading standards and that was a whitewash... then it went to the ombudsman, and that came to no avail.

if the ombudsman findings came to no avail, just what the hell is going on...

the response from the ombudsman regarding a councillor who lied, was - even though your councillor may have been discorteuos, he has done nothing wrong
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Offline davenorthwales

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #118 on: October 25, 2010, 03:17:08 AM »
the care and repair job was another thing.. their trader had to be on the councils safe scheme. an approved list of contractors..

i asked trading standards about a year and a half ago a question. why hasn't the trader issued the customer a mandatory form that trading standards request as a condition to get onto the safe list.. more or less a satisfaction form that goes to the customer, the contactor and trading standards.  if there is anything wrong, the trader either gets supsended or expelled from the safe scheme run by the council..

the trader admitted he did a bad job, but did a runner. he offered to pay the money back but that would have caused complications.. so the only way to get it redone is either by the trader or the trader employs someone to do it...

anyway, i pointed it out to trading standards he has not issued this form...why?  trading standards said they will investigate.

if i received the form. i would have filled it in stating all the defects, trading standards would have picked up on it and the piublic would be protected so he wouldn't be in a position to do it again..

a couple of weeks later, i had a letter from trading standards.. they said following your allegations, we have asked the trader in future to issue the form...

so, i got in touch again... why has the trader not issued me the form?

i tell you why, trading standards know there is a problem because they know that if the trader issued me with the form, trading standards would be in the sh1t because trading standards sanction the safe list and it will have exposed the council for employing rogue traders
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Offline davenorthwales

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Re: Struggling with depression.
« Reply #119 on: October 25, 2010, 04:04:22 AM »
so, what else? on top of that lot, i was diagnosed with some foot problem in 2006. a year before all this happened.. over 4 years later, it's still the same.  the NHS don't want to do anything about it.  they said at the hospital last march, learn to live with it..

so, i said ok. yeah sure.. i have a life to run.. i have a house to run... i cannot run the house on incapacity benefit.. i need my foot fixed so maybe i can get to work so i can earn..

i know deep down i cannot do the type of work i have been doing over the years which involved with things like walking, fetching, carrying, manufacturing and that is p1ssing me off big time. there is no way i can do that work with a messed up foot now.  combine that with the other two things.

now, when i went on incapacity originally in 2006, the government medical examiner there advised me to wear some footwear to ease the original swelling on the area where the problem was.. i did what he suggested, and was wearing them for about 5 months then i started feeling my foot had collapsed.  the footwear he advised to wear was actually weakening the foot, it was not absorbing the traction and pressure.. looking back in hindsight, he should not have advised me at all, as he was not in a position to advise. he was not a consultant, he was just an examiner..

they cannot operate on the foot cos they said it is complicated. so for 4 years been in pain and discomfort.. in 2006, the gp said i'm going to need an operation.. the surgeon said a few months after he thinks an op will pose as a threat and referred me to another depatment.. then it became i may need an operation, then it became there is not going to be an operation.. then my gp said they can do an operation, then another specialist said there isn't going to be an operation... so chaos

famous words of the specialist i saw last march... after putting his thumb and forefinger onto one of the areas which is a problem, he applied a little bit of pressure like a little pinch and i reacted to this.. he said 'i don't know what's causing that'... well, if he doesn't know what's causing it, who does? he's the specialist ffs. it's his job to find out exactly what is causing it..

i asked the surgeon last december, can nerves and muscles be photographed like an x-ray? he said no.. after doing some research, an mri scan will show some things an x-ray doesn't... the lying sod..

could possibly be mortons neuroma and/or sciatica.  possibly have develoed piriformis syndrome since. i came across on some american website, which the britsih NHS don't recognise.. no wonder my gp said no i haven't got sciatica when i asked him if it is possible if i have got it without examining me, and i thought to myself he was pretty quick to answer.. it makes sense now, british doctors relate all problems to the back.. if we were in america or japan, australia even they don't always assume back problems are the source of ailments. 


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