Topic: Gay Adoption.

[Refo]

True. But that's mainly the 'in the mind' stuff like if I were to subconsciously be attracted to a beautiful male face/body.

Torres.

I was, however, talking about 2 dudes bumming each other. If it were meant to be natural, then there would be offspring produced. Because that's the main aim of human life - procreation.

Meant to be natural by who exactly?

So whenever sex doesn't result in a baby that is unnatural? By that definition, having sex with someone unlucky enough to be sterile is unnatural too, and since a whole lot of adoptions are made by couples like this, should that be banned too?

[Refo]

Watch out Refo,  you have entered the agree with Twerp zone

Twerpy, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

[Una cerveza, por favor]

Meant to be natural by who exactly?

So whenever sex doesn't result in a baby that is unnatural? By that definition, having sex with someone unlucky enough to be sterile is unnatural too, and since a whole lot of adoptions are made by couples like this, should that be banned too?

Not what I said. A man is supposed to procreate with a woman and a woman only. I didn't make the rules.

[Refo]

Not what I said. A man is supposed to procreate with a woman and a woman only. I didn't make the rules.

I didn't realize there are rules. But if you didn't make em, who did?

[Una cerveza, por favor]

I didn't realize there are rules. But if you didn't make em, who did?

Depends on who you follow - God or Darwin. God says Man + Woman = A Okay. And it may come as a surprise to you but Darwin also agrees with him/her/it. Survival of the fittest and all that evolution stuff would be impossible with gay people.

That's just how life works.

[Una cerveza, por favor]

And lets not get sidetracked here. I did say that despite it being unnatural and weird, I was all for gay rights. Just because I find it unnatural doesn't mean it should be banned or vice versa.

[OrangeMochaFraps]

I don't understand how homosexuality can be unnatural?  Do you think half the people out there - all those discriminated (and in many lesbians cases "corrective raped") CHOOSE to be gay?

That's how they were born.

Your argument of natural selection is invalid.  People who are born sterile must be unnatural too then.  Those women who have miscarriages - fucking unnatural.

Homophobia is so fucking ugly.

[Refo]

God, obviously depending on which god your talking about. I don't think Apollo had anything against gays, for instance.

Darwin, no. Darwin doesn't make any rules for anybody, he just describes how things panned/pan out.

'but if everybody was gay there would be no evolution because there would be no babies'

True. Not everybody is gay though, and there are too many babies. Really, i think Joe hit the nail on the head earlier though. Homosexuality occurs in nature, therefore it is natural. Otherwise, I'm not sure what natural actually means.

[Refo]

I don't understand how homosexuality can be unnatural?  Do you think half the people out there - all those discriminated (and in many lesbians cases "corrective raped") CHOOSE to be gay?

That's how they were born.

Your argument of natural selection is invalid.  People who are born sterile must be unnatural too then.  Those women who have miscarriages - fucking unnatural.

Homophobia is so fucking ugly.

The last bastion of socially acceptable bigotry in the western world. This poll is shocking really.

I don't know if its as simple as like a gene, but it doesn't matter, it can't be helped.

[Una cerveza, por favor]

True. Not everybody is gay though, and there are too many babies. Really, i think Joe hit the nail on the head earlier though. Homosexuality occurs in nature, therefore it is natural. Otherwise, I'm not sure what natural actually means.

Incest occurs in nature. So does pedophilia. None of those I count as natural.

And before the PC brigade attacks me, not comparing homosexuality with either of those 2 vile things but just arguing against the '____ occurs in nature so it is natural' argument which, with apologies to my fellow Israelophile Refo, I find quite stupid.

PS - A man shall not lie with another man as he would with a woman, it is a תועבה toeba. 

Homophobia is so fucking ugly.

This is exactly what I hate about pseudo-liberals. Patronizing beyond belief but haven't half a clue of what they are talking about.

[Refo]

Incest occurs in nature. So does pedophilia. None of those I count as natural.

And before the PC brigade attacks me, not comparing homosexuality with either of those 2 vile things but just arguing against the '____ occurs in nature so it is natural' argument which, with apologies to my fellow Israelophile friend Refo, I find quite stupid.
This is exactly what I hate about pseudo-liberals. Patronizing beyond belief but haven't half a clue of what they are talking about.

Lets examine those two examples Una.

Pedophilia:
Obviously (At least in our modern western society, I cant speak for the psychology of ancient Greek kids where the practice was socially acceptable but I digress...) having sex with a child is damaging to that child's psychology. Can scar him/her for life. That's why its wrong; whether its natural or not doesn't come into the discussion, but yeah, technically speaking its natural.

Incest:
Damaging to the offspring of the incestuous couple, and even hunter gatherer societies often try to mate as far away from their family lines as possible. That is also probably the root cause of the social stigma surrounding it. Is it natural? Well we've naturally developed an aversion to it, but if someone has an urge to bang his sister, its not exactly his fault. Its probably not all that bad, to be honest, as long as he doesn't act on that urge, because that act would cause damage to all the parties involved.

But really it all boils down to:
unconsensual sex: natural, but wrong.
consensual sex: natural, sometimes strange, but OK.

edit:
of course what consensual means is debatable, but that's for another time

PS. Like so many Jews, I'm an atheist Una. And I'm only an Israelophile on these boards, lol. I should really get my crazy right wing  לכודנק likudnik friend on Rawk, he'd cause quite a stir. Probably get banned in a few minutes after calling everyone anti-semites and explaining that Israel should just "wait for a war, and move all the Arabs, simples", the daft c*nt, bless his heart, hope he doesn't get into politics, he's trying to do just that. Oh and he's a good, standards corrupted shirt buying red. People are complex.

[OrangeMochaFraps]

This is exactly what I hate about pseudo-liberals. Patronizing beyond belief but haven't half a clue of what they are talking about.

This is exactly what I hate about misinformed bible-quoters.  Enforcing their beliefs and wills on others while disregarding the hypocrisies of the very writing they quote.

If you truly believe everything in Leviticus (where your quote is from), you must also find selfish to be an abomination.  And you need to sacrifice animals to make sure mothers are cleaned after giving birth to children.

[Refo]

This is exactly what I hate about misinformed bible-quoters.  Enforcing their beliefs and wills on others while disregarding the hypocrisies of the very writing they quote.

If you truly believe everything in Leviticus (where your quote is from), you must also find selfish to be an abomination.  And you need to sacrifice animals to make sure mothers are cleaned after giving birth to children.

I like your style. not shellfishslap. Thats unnatural.

[Una cerveza, por favor]

bible-quoters.

Haha, I've never even opened a bible or been to church.

Enforcing their beliefs and wills on others

Au contraire, I am not enforcing my belief on anyone. I have said it twice before and I'll say it again. I'm all for gay rights but I personally find it weird. What's so hard to understand about it. I am not calling for a ban on it. Those are my beliefs and it's funny you should accuse me of enforcing my beliefs on others when Refo and yourself are trying to enforce yours on me.

I cannot make it anymore clearer to you.

[Una cerveza, por favor]

PS. Like so many Jews, I'm an atheist Una. And I'm only an Israelophile on these boards, lol. I should really get my crazy right wing  לכודנק likudnik friend on Rawk, he'd cause quite a stir. Probably get banned in a few minutes after calling everyone anti-semites and explaining that Israel should just "wait for a war, and move all the Arabs, simples", the daft c*nt, bless his heart, hope he doesn't get into politics, he's trying to do just that. Oh and he's a good, standards corrupted shirt buying red. People are complex.

I've made my final post on this topic because I do not wish to be branded a homophobe in addition to being a Palestine hater by the pseudo-liberal PC brigade.

I know what you mean about people being complex. I love holding up anti 'God hates Fags' signs when those idiots visit our Uni and I've gotten into fights with rednecks who have said some unkind things about Islam but if you just know me through RAWK you would imagine me as some kind of homophobic, Republican, muslim-hating redneck whose never stepped outside the bible belt.

[Henry Chinaski]

I'm liking this Refo-fella. Wanna adopt?

[Refo]

I've made my final post on this topic because I do not wish to be branded a homophobe in addition to being a Palestine hater by the pseudo-liberal PC brigade.

I know what you mean about people being complex. I love holding up anti 'God hates Fags' signs when those idiots visit our Uni and I've gotten into fights with rednecks who have said some unkind things about Islam but if you just know me through RAWK you would imagine me as some kind of homophobic, Republican, muslim-hating redneck whose never stepped outside the bible belt.

Au contraire. This is the first time I've disagreed with you as far as I can remember. But really we're arguing over semantics I think. I don't find it weird, but then I've been in contact with gay people since I was young, and I'm not exactly a 0 on the Kinsey scale myself.

As long as you accept that most people are weird, your pretty much OK in my book. But I don't think I'm enforcing my view on you, just arguing with you. Its ok if your a homophobe btw, I heard Mocha is a racist doesn't like the blacks (uniforms).

[Refo]

I'm liking this Refo-fella. Wanna adopt?

A hundred times yes, random internet creep!

[Henry Chinaski]

A hundred times yes, random internet creep!

Aaaah, the cute nicknames we give each other.

[Refo]

Aaaah, the cute nicknames we give each other.

yes love, now what do you want to name the baby?

[Henry Chinaski]

yes love, now what do you want to name the baby?

If it's a Laotian boy (and I'm hoping it is): Pete Postlethwaite the second.

[Refo]

I was thinking Froley if its a guy, Bazooka if its a girl.

[JoeTwerp]

now that this is settled there is the other gay adoption issue, should you be able to adopt gay kids?

[AriGold]

Fuck no.

Won't somebody please think of the parents? Their friends will probably dissown them for their failure as parents. Everyone knows that you must have fucked up really badly to manage to turn your kid into a gayer.

Oh please, just because we don't agree with your views there's no reason to try and be funny about it. It's half and half between yes and no. Stop thinking your opinion is right.

[Corkboy]

Fuck no.

Won't somebody please think of the parents? Their friends will probably dissown them for their failure as parents. Everyone knows that you must have fucked up really badly to manage to turn your kid into a gayer.

If you are careful to keep the house free of showtunes and tasteful decor, no gayer should emerge. Simple.

[lauz]

Looking at this from a different prospective from everybody else on here, as in I'm giving up my unborn baby for adoption in a few weeks and I get to choose who adopts him, I'm not going to automatically say no to gay parents, because they're going to be better parents then I could, they want the baby they would provide it better stability then me I don't know what basis I will be choosing the future parents on but sexuality of them won't even be a matter of concern for me.

[Cochise]

Maybe that's all you're interested in. I have droned on many times about muslims, scientologists, buddhists, evangelicals. To be fair, the catholics are giving great material right now, but the muslims are quality ore, too.

OK mate fair enough. Maybe i've not looked in the right threads.

Catholic thing?

No, I just think its terribly unfair on the child.

[Corkboy]

No, I just think its terribly unfair on the child.

Not to rehash the entire thread but I would much rather a child had to suffer the unfairness of having two loving parents who happen to be the same sex, than the unfairness of being abused and unloved in an institution or foster home.

[Cochise]

Not to rehash the entire thread but I would much rather a child had to suffer the unfairness of having two loving parents who happen to be the same sex, than the unfairness of being abused and unloved in an institution or foster home.

Can gays not abuse?

[Corkboy]

Can gays not abuse?

Anyone can abuse, gay or straight. It's just that your chances of getting loved are much greater with people who want to adopt you, rather than people who are getting paid to supervise you.

[Cochise]

Anyone can abuse, gay or straight. It's just that your chances of getting loved are much greater with people who want to adopt you, rather than people who are getting paid to supervise you.

True but forgetting the parents for a second could you imagine the abuse and stick the poor kid would get at school? Their life could be fantastic at home in their little gay bubble but in the teenage real world it'd be hell.

[Danyaals Kop]

This is one of the weirdest questions ever to be asked on RAWK ? Gay Adoption - Get Real !!! 

[Corkboy]

True but forgetting the parents for a second could you imagine the abuse and stick the poor kid would get at school? Their life could be fantastic at home in their little gay bubble but in the teenage real world it'd be hell.

"Gay bubble"? Was your home life a "straight bubble"?

So you're effectively saying someone's chances of being raised in a loving environment should be decided by a bunch of teenage dickheads?

Being bullied at school can happen to anyone, for any reason. That Irish girl who got cyber bullied into killing herself in the US was bullied because the captain of the school team fancied her.

Take two kids who are put up for adoption aged 1.

Kid A gets two lesbians who teach him all they know, and read him stories, and scold him when he does something bold, and tell him not to stick soldiers into wall sockets, and teach him to cross roads and not to bully those weaker than him and so on. Standard parenting stuff.

Kid B gets no adoption and is shunted from foster home to institution for 15 years with no stable parental influence, nobody looking out for him and more importantly, nobody keeping him in line in a firm but caring way.

My best guess is that while Kid A might get bullied, Kid B will almost certainly be doing the bullying.

[casey]

I, personnally, only know one gay couple who are bringing up a child.  He is a well balanced young lad.  I dont see a problem with it myself.

[Cochise]

"Gay bubble"? Was your home life a "straight bubble"?

So you're effectively saying someone's chances of being raised in a loving environment should be decided by a bunch of teenage dickheads?

Being bullied at school can happen to anyone, for any reason. That Irish girl who got cyber bullied into killing herself in the US was bullied because the captain of the school team fancied her.

Take two kids who are put up for adoption aged 1.

Kid A gets two lesbians who teach him all they know, and read him stories, and scold him when he does something bold, and tell him not to stick soldiers into wall sockets, and teach him to cross roads and not to bully those weaker than him and so on. Standard parenting stuff.

Kid B gets no adoption and is shunted from foster home to institution for 15 years with no stable parental influence, nobody looking out for him and more importantly, nobody keeping him in line in a firm but caring way.

My best guess is that while Kid A might get bullied, Kid B will almost certainly be doing the bullying.

Yes mate, I feel that they are in a bubble. Its un-natural, but not wrong, for a child to be raised by a same sex couple.

As for the bullying thing, your right that anyone can be bullied but a kid with 2 dads/mums the bullying would be unbearable, and tbf it wouldn't stop when they finished school and they'd suffer snide remarks for years after.

[Refo]

Yes mate, I feel that they are in a bubble. Its un-natural, but not wrong, for a child to be raised by a same sex couple.

As for the bullying thing, your right that anyone can be bullied but a kid with 2 dads/mums the bullying would be unbearable, and tbf it wouldn't stop when they finished school and they'd suffer snide remarks for years after.

Bullying is almost never utterly unbearable, as in destroys someone's life. It almost always feels terrible, but has little or no bearing on someone's success coming out of school. Who your parents are has a much greater bearing on how you turn out.

[Finn Solomon]

What about letting the kid decide if he wants to be adopted by a gay couple or not?

[rednich85]

Looking at this from a different prospective from everybody else on here, as in I'm giving up my unborn baby for adoption in a few weeks and I get to choose who adopts him, I'm not going to automatically say no to gay parents, because they're going to be better parents then I could, they want the baby they would provide it better stability then me I don't know what basis I will be choosing the future parents on but sexuality of them won't even be a matter of concern for me.

You're giving up you're child for adoption?

[lauz]

You're giving up you're child for adoption?

yes.

[Cochise]

A question to anyone who has used the "bullying" argument ... Would YOU bully a child who had gay adoptive parents?

Now? Of course not.

As 13 year-old boy? who knows.