Author Topic: General Arsenal Thread - Artettacking Front Four?  (Read 4038477 times)

Offline Alan_X

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54280 on: November 25, 2019, 07:55:33 AM »
If they're not happy with a FA Cup or League Cup, they'll be unhappy for a long time

And I think they will be unhappy for a long time. There is so much wrong at Arsenal and itís not going to be fixed with a few players or a new manager.

When Wenger took over he was challenging against Fergusonís United team and his attacking play, solid defence and ideas about diet and training won him the league. Arsenal fell behind when they developed the Emirates and United splashed the cash and Abramovich used his oil money to financially dope Chelsea into the top levels of English and European football.

Now they appear to be willing to spend more money on players, but the legacy of Wengerís absolute control of the football side and Dein leaving is a club that is miles behind Liverpool and City as an organisation designed to win trophies.
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Offline pezzzer

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54281 on: November 25, 2019, 08:03:32 AM »
And if Rafa had any sense, he wouldn't touch that job with a 10-foot pole.
I really hoped rafa would of got his feet under the table somewhere by now and got to work his managerial magic and get the plaudits he deserves.
Every time I hear his name mentioned with clubs underperforming it's a bit depressing!
He really deserved a decent club somewhere after what he did for us.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 08:06:15 AM by pezzzer »
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Offline AndyMuller

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54282 on: November 25, 2019, 08:12:58 AM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/l2clvKiIHjM" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/l2clvKiIHjM</a>

Shite him.

Offline No666

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54283 on: November 25, 2019, 08:21:09 AM »
No club whose supporters are dissatisfied with the owners will hire Rafa.

Offline ScottishGoon

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54284 on: November 25, 2019, 08:43:16 AM »
And I think they will be unhappy for a long time. There is so much wrong at Arsenal and itís not going to be fixed with a few players or a new manager.

When Wenger took over he was challenging against Fergusonís United team and his attacking play, solid defence and ideas about diet and training won him the league. Arsenal fell behind when they developed the Emirates and United splashed the cash and Abramovich used his oil money to financially dope Chelsea into the top levels of English and European football.

Now they appear to be willing to spend more money on players, but the legacy of Wengerís absolute control of the football side and Dein leaving is a club that is miles behind Liverpool and City as an organisation designed to win trophies.

I still dont think its a massive overhaul that Arsenal need. They've lost their way, they've lost confidence in what's happening right now, & in the manager. But there's still a decent base of players there for any new manager to work with. This is by in large a squad that was 1 point off top 4 6 months ago. Leno, Tierney, Bellerin, Geundouzi, Torriera, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Pepe, more youngsters coming through like Martinelli, Saka, Willock, Nelson, Saliba to arrive in 6 months....you can't tell me most managers wouldn't like to have those options available to them?

The squad's still in imbalanced though, lacking pace & power in midfield & central defence, lacking defensive nous, structure & organisation. I'm not naive enough to think there's not a lot of work to do, buy you can't tell me however that most managers worth their salt wouldn't fancy a crack at the job. That they can improve on what we are seeing right now.

As for the structure behind the manager, it's too early to judge the new regime. This is Sanllehi's first full year in his new role, Edu only arrived after the Copa America in the summer, so they need to be given time. This was never going to be a quick fix, & at least in their dealings in the summer etc they show they are thinking about the long term. I don't think they expected this short term pain though in the meantime. 
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 12:08:46 PM by ScottishGoon »

Offline Schmidt

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54285 on: November 25, 2019, 11:25:41 AM »
Leno has been a good signing too. I know he's one on RAWK's shit player list like Pulisic, but he's been one of the few positives for them. The guy faces a shit-ton of shots every game too, far more than pretty much any goalie in the league, he's one of the least of their worries.

Gunedouzi is class. Tierney might turn out good for them, but otherwise i agree! Far to many misses, and strange big money splurges on players who surely where not priorities - like Auba at the time - although to be fair, he ended up being one of the few plus points. But also Pepe, they may have needed a winger, but the state of their defence, they could have spread the cash so much better, the contract for ÷zil too was so badly judged.

They are all over the place decision making wise.

Even with Leno, they sold Szczesny a year earlier for half what they paid for Leno, so not really great business still.

Guendouzi was a good deal.

Offline newterp

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54286 on: November 25, 2019, 12:18:07 PM »
I still dont think its a massive overhaul that Arsenal need. They've lost their way, they've lost confidence in what's happening right now, & in the manager. But there's still a decent base of players there for any new manager to work with. This is by in large a squad that was 1 point off top 4 6 months ago. Leno, Tierney, Bellerin, Geundouzi, Torriera, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Pepe, more youngsters coming through like Martinelli, Saka, Willock, Nelson, Saliba to arrive in 6 months....you can't tell me most managers wouldn't like to have those options available to them?

The squad's still in imbalanced though, lacking pace & power in midfield & central defence, lacking defensive nous, structure & organisation. I'm not naive enough to think there's not a lot of work to do, buy you can't tell me however that most managers worth their salt wouldn't fancy a crack at the job. That they can improve on what we are seeing right now.

As for the structure behind the manager, it's too early to judge the new regime. This is Sanllehi's first full year in his new role, Edu only arrived after the Copa America in the summer, so they need to be given time. This was never going to be a quick fix, & at least in their dealings in the summer etc they show they are thinking about the long term. I don't think they expected this short term pain though in the meantime. 

I agree with you. Obviously there were some big mistakes stretching back a few seasons including Ozil and Sanchez/Mkhi but it didn't stop arsenal from spending and bringing in some pretty decent quality.

The question I have is with Auba - 31 at the end of this season and Lacazette - 29 at the end of the season - is what trajectory do they take? (Liverpool will be looking at this issue in 2 years as well). Auba is still scoring at will, and Lacazette too (when healthy).

After that it looks like the CBs need a full overhaul - and the one youngster coming in isn't going to solve everything (he needs to adapt as well).

Offline ScottishGoon

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54287 on: November 25, 2019, 02:59:30 PM »
I agree with you. Obviously there were some big mistakes stretching back a few seasons including Ozil and Sanchez/Mkhi but it didn't stop arsenal from spending and bringing in some pretty decent quality.

The question I have is with Auba - 31 at the end of this season and Lacazette - 29 at the end of the season - is what trajectory do they take? (Liverpool will be looking at this issue in 2 years as well). Auba is still scoring at will, and Lacazette too (when healthy).

After that it looks like the CBs need a full overhaul - and the one youngster coming in isn't going to solve everything (he needs to adapt as well).

I think the club will go back in for a new central defender in January, (providing they have the funds) they bid for Upamecano before and are linked with guys like Dermiral. However, they need to get the structure & mix in midfield right, they could have Baresi & Maldini in defence & they'd still struggle with the space the opposition have to run at the defence.

It's a big summer with regards Auba & perhaps Lacazette. Auba is out of contract the summer of 2021, but if he doesnt sign an extension he needs to leave, we can't let another big player run down his contract. I like both players but i dont think anyone we currently have is irreplaceable.

Offline newterp

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54288 on: November 25, 2019, 03:52:28 PM »
Here's......Troopz! Weird outfit too. Love how he sticks up for the fans at all times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbS4qsmcI20

The comments making fun of Troopz are gold.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 03:57:16 PM by newterp »

Offline stoopid yank

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54289 on: November 25, 2019, 07:38:04 PM »
But Allegri would get them organized far better than what Emery can muster

More smoke today about Allegri. Can anybody explain exactly why he left Juve, and why he is not doing anything right now? Seems odd
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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54290 on: November 25, 2019, 08:24:54 PM »
More smoke today about Allegri. Can anybody explain exactly why he left Juve, and why he is not doing anything right now? Seems odd
He heard a rumor there might be s vacancy at goodison?
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54291 on: November 25, 2019, 08:26:09 PM »
More smoke today about Allegri. Can anybody explain exactly why he left Juve, and why he is not doing anything right now? Seems odd

Basically both parties wanted a split. Allegri wanted a new challenge and had complaints about recruitment. Juventus wanted to do better in the CL , players were tired of his methods and fans wanted a better style of play

Offline stoopid yank

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54292 on: November 25, 2019, 08:34:20 PM »
Basically both parties wanted a split. Allegri wanted a new challenge and had complaints about recruitment. Juventus wanted to do better in the CL , players were tired of his methods and fans wanted a better style of play
Thx - seeing 4 straight league titles, and a CL final among other things, you would think everyone would be happy.
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Offline him_15

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54293 on: November 25, 2019, 08:50:45 PM »
Just waiting for the inevitable to happen.
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Offline Phatz

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54294 on: November 26, 2019, 08:59:37 AM »

#emeryout
#partridgeout
#danout
'Nuff said...

Offline ScottishGoon

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54295 on: November 26, 2019, 09:42:39 AM »
Seen this getting passed round yesterday, no idea if it's true but really damning if it is!


Offline Roger Federer

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54296 on: November 26, 2019, 01:03:05 PM »
And if Rafa had any sense, he wouldn't touch that job with a 10-foot pole.
Why not? Was Newcastle a better job and is his current one?

Offline Ashburton

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54297 on: November 26, 2019, 03:07:32 PM »
Seen this getting passed round yesterday, no idea if it's true but really damning if it is!

The team has given away 71 shots in the last 3 games.   I believe bottom of the table Watford had 31 shots against the team, and gifted Southampton 21 shots when I believe they managed 6 shots in their last three games before that put together.  It's a shambles.

Offline Ashburton

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54298 on: November 26, 2019, 03:14:28 PM »
I think the club will go back in for a new central defender in January, (providing they have the funds) they bid for Upamecano before and are linked with guys like Dermiral. However, they need to get the structure & mix in midfield right, they could have Baresi & Maldini in defence & they'd still struggle with the space the opposition have to run at the defence.,

It's a big summer with regards Auba & perhaps Lacazette. Auba is out of contract the summer of 2021, but if he doesnt sign an extension he needs to leave, we can't let another big player run down his contract. I like both players but i dont think anyone we currently have is irreplaceable.

I'm not sure it is.  Look at Leicester City, they don't have any player near Auba or Laca, they have a 34 year old Vardy who is putting in work, making runs and knows he has the team behind him to back him up.  Liverpool went into the wilderness for years and averaged 7th place in the PL from 2008 to 2013, Leicester sacked Ranieri after his PL win - same with Mourinho (twice) at Chelsea.  The end of the day the club need to salvage the season, there are enough decent players to still secure top 4 but they need to do it sooner rather than later. 

Emery doesn't have them playing as a team - they were mind you, for a bit last season - but they've clearly had yet another mental collapse after the Europa final, with the constant behind the scenes drama with Ozil and Xhaka hardly helping him.  I thought it was Neymar's doing at PSG in the drama created there, but it is starting to look like a trend.

Honestly though it's quite funny in a way.  It's like watching a slow motion car crash and not being able to look away.  Some of the ex-players like Adams and Wright seem exasperated at the basics the team can't manage.    Would be nice to see Emery gone before the Xmas fixtures since they're so many of them, a manager bounce could be useful - but if the club goes into January with the same manager why would any new player want to sign for an unstable team with a gaffer who is practically out of the door.  Robbie should be rubbing his hands together over at AFTV  ;D
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 03:16:33 PM by Ashburton »

Offline Schmidt

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54299 on: November 26, 2019, 03:18:34 PM »
Why not? Was Newcastle a better job and is his current one?

Arsenal could be a great project for Rafa. They have at least some financial muscle, internally they seem to need a bit of an overhaul but that's what he does, they're a mess defensively which he would improve immensely you'd expect and he'd get plenty of time.

Offline farawayred

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54300 on: November 26, 2019, 03:22:13 PM »
Why not? Was Newcastle a better job and is his current one?
Rafa had to suffer under the Tumors shredding our club. He fought hard for us. Then he had to suffer under Mike Ashley who never won over their fans (granted, his influence has two sides). He fought hard for their fans. It's energy sapping. Why would Rafa even consider going to Arsenal in the current state of affairs? He needs a good job, which Arsenal is, but he does not need the shit show that comes with it.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline PaulF

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54301 on: November 26, 2019, 04:08:12 PM »
Rafa knows he's not winning the league ahead of us either.....
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline Ma Vie en Rouge

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54302 on: November 26, 2019, 05:37:31 PM »
Here's......Troopz! Weird outfit too. Love how he sticks up for the fans at all times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbS4qsmcI20

The comments making fun of Troopz are gold.

Amazing monologue on the terrifying, and hitherto unrevealed, link between supporting Arsenal and smoking lots and lots of joints in order to endure the football.

Offline Simplexity

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54303 on: November 26, 2019, 06:04:27 PM »
Been a long time since I've seen a manager that is this sunk, miraculous that he is still in a job to be honest.

Offline 1892tillforever

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54304 on: November 27, 2019, 07:53:18 AM »
Been a long time since I've seen a manager that is this sunk, miraculous that he is still in a job to be honest.
Aside from Mark Silver and Super Ole you mean? Tis the season of out of their depth managers!

Offline PaulF

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54305 on: November 27, 2019, 08:00:19 AM »
Aside from Mark Silver and Super Ole you mean? Tis the season of out of their depth managers!
Tum Sherwood wasn't that long ago either.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline ScottishGoon

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54306 on: November 27, 2019, 10:47:35 AM »
Rafa had to suffer under the Tumors shredding our club. He fought hard for us. Then he had to suffer under Mike Ashley who never won over their fans (granted, his influence has two sides). He fought hard for their fans. It's energy sapping. Why would Rafa even consider going to Arsenal in the current state of affairs? He needs a good job, which Arsenal is, but he does not need the shit show that comes with it.

I don't quite get this narrative that seems to be getting painted of the Arsenal ownership / structure.

We are owned by Stan Kronke. Its true, he's not pumped millions of his own money into Arsenal, and he is known as an absent owner, but hes picked a management team to run the club as they see fit, overseen by his son Josh who is becoming more involved. Surely the fact the owner doesn't get himself involved in the day to day stuff is an attraction to a top class manager, rather than a hindrance?

As for the management structure, it's Sanhelli, Vinai, and Edu's first full year in their current roles. You can see they already working to a plan, getting talented, younger players and edging out some of the older, more well paid players, and trying to get a more balance within the squad. It's a fair amount of turnover that was never going to happen in 1 year.

Im just not seeing the shambles supposedly from the full owner / management structure that many are claiming. I don't see why any top class manager / coach wouldn't fancy themselves to turn things around.

Offline farawayred

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54307 on: November 27, 2019, 04:42:25 PM »
I don't quite get this narrative that seems to be getting painted of the Arsenal ownership / structure.

We are owned by Stan Kronke. Its true, he's not pumped millions of his own money into Arsenal, and he is known as an absent owner, but hes picked a management team to run the club as they see fit, overseen by his son Josh who is becoming more involved. Surely the fact the owner doesn't get himself involved in the day to day stuff is an attraction to a top class manager, rather than a hindrance?

As for the management structure, it's Sanhelli, Vinai, and Edu's first full year in their current roles. You can see they already working to a plan, getting talented, younger players and edging out some of the older, more well paid players, and trying to get a more balance within the squad. It's a fair amount of turnover that was never going to happen in 1 year.

Im just not seeing the shambles supposedly from the full owner / management structure that many are claiming. I don't see why any top class manager / coach wouldn't fancy themselves to turn things around.
First off, no offense, mate. I have respect for Arsenal. You're going through a tough patch, but what club doesn't have those...

I'm not claiming anything on the internal structure, mate, because I know fuck all about it. But you have to admit that the dealings in the last several years have not been up to prior standards. The people brought in before were selected with a vision, brought in young and developed and gelled in the side. Of late, it seems (on the outside) as a patch job. I have no clue if this was a consequence or a reaction of Usmanov leaving, Kroenke becoming a sole owner or what, but something seems off. A lot of key players contracts were allowed to run down. The new players are over their peaks or don't quite fitting the style. Which is I don't know what under Emery. The club is losing value. That to me, again without knowing any of the internal affairs, seems as a club structure issue. Sure, you can tweak things, bring new people to fix it, and you will as Arsenal is a big club and I'm sure it will recover. But you need someone to buy into the model, the path to recover, the new club philosophy, the goals. And for Rafa, being burned twice already with not to dissimilar issues, I don't see a path forward.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline Redcap

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54308 on: November 28, 2019, 02:25:52 AM »
It's really not that complicated.

If the new manager is supported with the money and strong scouting networks to get the right players in, it's a great project. If not, it's not.

I don't think Arsenal's too far away from starting to turn it around. The first step is to make sure they get the right long-term manager in, and I think in that context they're doing the right thing to hold off on sacking Emery until they can be assured of getting their preferred candidate.

Then, it's a matter of gradually getting the right players/staff in over the course of years, as we have. It's not going to be easy, but by the time Jurgen (unless we can persuade him otherwise) and Guardiola leave Liverpool and City in 2-3 years, they might be in a decent place to challenge again.

Offline Ashburton

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54309 on: November 28, 2019, 04:50:54 PM »
It's really not that complicated.

If the new manager is supported with the money and strong scouting networks to get the right players in, it's a great project. If not, it's not.

I don't think Arsenal's too far away from starting to turn it around. The first step is to make sure they get the right long-term manager in, and I think in that context they're doing the right thing to hold off on sacking Emery until they can be assured of getting their preferred candidate.

Then, it's a matter of gradually getting the right players/staff in over the course of years, as we have. It's not going to be easy, but by the time Jurgen (unless we can persuade him otherwise) and Guardiola leave Liverpool and City in 2-3 years, they might be in a decent place to challenge again.

Thing is though, Guardiola has a style of play, an ethos - you back him, he gets results.  He's shown that at three of the most well resourced clubs in the world.  Klopp has a style of play, an ethos - you back him, he gets results.  He's showing what the board, fans and players get when you put that support towards the same goal.

With Emery - he isn't a nobody who just arrived on the scene, he had a huge value after his Europa cups for Sevilla and regardless of what we think of his time at PSG - I was actually quite keen to see what he could do with this team.  I don't know if it's language, or he can't get the players to commit - but the play we're seeing on the pitch is an absolute disgrace for a club as well resourced as Arsenal is.  The attack is disjointed, two of the most expensive players are outcasts and the defence is shambolic. That is hardly what you want to see.

I actually think Emery's 'turning point' was the Crystal Palace game last season where he arrogantly started a bunch of 2nd team players who were nowhere near good enough on the day - and then ended up thumped, contributing to losing the CL spot by 1 point, and then getting humiliated in the Europa final.  To me, there was something seriously wrong.  He's had his summer, has a fortune of new players - not that you'd know it as they're playing like a bunch of cloggers. 

In my mind the only way to actually fix this is to see an improvement in play by January or he needs to leave.  I have very little confidence he'd drag this team back to the top 4 or a Europa win otherwise.

Offline RedSamba

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54310 on: November 28, 2019, 09:42:17 PM »
issa joke fam
Let's talk about six, baby

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54311 on: November 28, 2019, 09:55:44 PM »
'Siempre es posible' - my eyes have seen the glory...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9OHC7lIfvk4

Physical death I do not fear, death of conscience is a sure death.

Offline FiSh77

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54312 on: November 28, 2019, 09:56:36 PM »
Some great booing there for such a small crowd, must have borrowed some megaphones from city

Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54313 on: November 28, 2019, 10:02:07 PM »
Emery
Beatings will continue until morale improves...

Offline Studgotelli

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54314 on: November 28, 2019, 10:02:42 PM »
:lmao

Offline Geppvindh's

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54315 on: November 28, 2019, 10:03:29 PM »
Understand he's quite young but is Guendouzi really worth the hype? Been average every time I've seen him.

Offline FiSh77

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54316 on: November 28, 2019, 10:10:30 PM »
Understand he's quite young but is Guendouzi really worth the hype? Been average every time I've seen him.

Few good performances early on and cue the wankfest followed by becoming bang average at best, classic Arsenal

Offline King Kenny 7

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54317 on: November 28, 2019, 10:23:40 PM »
Jesus . . . Starting to really feel sorry for the guy.  :(

Offline grizz

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54318 on: November 28, 2019, 10:25:00 PM »

Offline newterp

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Re: General Arsenal Thread - Wenger Gone - Unai Emery appointed
« Reply #54319 on: November 28, 2019, 10:25:31 PM »
Yeah. Emery seems really like able but heís lost this team completely.