Author Topic: The Results Comparison 2008/09  (Read 99279 times)

Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #400 on: January 14, 2009, 08:15:49 am »

Points Per Game this season

Liverpool     2.19
Manchester United        2.16
Chelsea        2.00
Aston Villa        1.95
Arsenal        1.81


MU will have a higher PPG  than us if they win tonight.


Recent champions:

07/08  -  2.29
06/07  -  2.34
05/06  -  2.39
04/05  -  2.50
03/04  -  2.37
02/03  -  2.18

So our current rate of points gain is worse than the champions of the last 5 years - but better than 6 years ago.

During the same period, 2.19 PPG is better than the runners-up every season except for last year (Chelsea - 2.24).






Offline JP-65

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #401 on: January 14, 2009, 11:42:45 am »
Updating the clean sheets:

08/9 - 12
07/8 - 11

Interesting to note that we've been shut out 5 times this season, and have not lost any of these, all 0-0 draws.
Last season we were shut out 8 times, losing 3, with 5 0-0's.

Offline JP-65

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #402 on: January 14, 2009, 12:35:19 pm »
This weekend's matches and last season's results:

Saturday, 17 January 2009

Blackburn v Newcastle, Blackburn W
Bolton v Man Utd, Man Utd L
Chelsea v Stoke, Chelsea W
Hull v Arsenal, Arsenal W
Man City v Wigan, Man City D
Sunderland v Aston Villa, Villa D
West Brom v Middlesbrough, WBA D

Sunday, 18 January 2009

Tottenham v Portsmouth, Spurs W
West Ham v Fulham, West Ham W

Monday, 19 January 2009

Liverpool v Everton, Liverpool W, Everton L

For the time comps, it was wins for Man Utd & Chelsea, draws for Arsenal & Liverpool

Offline The Jackal

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #403 on: January 14, 2009, 12:52:59 pm »
Points Per Game this season

Liverpool     2.19
Manchester United        2.16
Chelsea        2.00
Aston Villa        1.95
Arsenal        1.81


MU will have a higher PPG  than us if they win tonight.


Recent champions:

07/08  -  2.29
06/07  -  2.34
05/06  -  2.39
04/05  -  2.50
03/04  -  2.37
02/03  -  2.18

So our current rate of points gain is worse than the champions of the last 5 years - but better than 6 years ago.

During the same period, 2.19 PPG is better than the runners-up every season except for last year (Chelsea - 2.24).







Cheers for that.

Interesting to note though that since the high-water mark of the 04/05 season, the ppg of the champions has dropped progressively each year (by a margin of at least 0.05).
 
Edit - following that regressional curve then, it wouldn't be beyond the realms of imagination to expect an final ppg rate for this year's champions of 2.24.
 
Prior to the draw at Stoke we were on 2.25, and should we win the derby we will be back to 2.22, a further win against Wigan taking us to 2.26.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 12:59:50 pm by The Jackal »
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Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #404 on: January 14, 2009, 02:10:51 pm »
...and that would give us 85 points. I still think 84 will win it.
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Offline JP-65

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #405 on: January 14, 2009, 07:02:54 pm »
Updating the clean sheets:

08/9 - 12
07/8 - 11

Interesting to note that we've been shut out 5 times this season, and have not lost any of these, all 0-0 draws.
Last season we were shut out 8 times, losing 3, with 5 0-0's.

I looked at Man Utd over the last 3 seasons, the current, and the last 2 where they ended up champs:

08/9 - 2 shut outs, 2 0-0's
07/8 - 3 shut outs, 1 0-0
06/7 - 4 shut outs, 1 0-0

They are shut out a lot less than we are....for sure

Offline Shanks1965

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #406 on: January 14, 2009, 10:03:13 pm »
Game for Game comparison comparing only the points from the same fixtures played.

Dissapointing result at Old Trafford tonight. Another 'dodgy' 1-0 for United and Wigan had chances by all accounts. Anyway, its getting really tight now and will reamin so up to the head to head in March I think.

Liverpool v Man United
Comparison from 15 'common' fixtures so far including the 'head to head' at Anfield.
Liverpool     33pts (next game Everton at home - United haven't played Everton at Old Trafford)
Man United  34pts (next game Bolton away- we won at Bolton)
Liverpool have 4 wins and 1 draw in hand over United (13pts)
United have 3 wins and 1 draw in hand over Liverpool (10pts)

Liverpool v Chelsea
Comparison from 9 'common' fixtures so far including the 'head to head' at the Bridge.
Liverpool     23pts (next game Everton home - Chelsea haven't played Everton at The Bridge yet)
Chelsea       18pts (next game Stoke home - we drew at home to Stoke)
Liverpool have 6 wins, 5 draws & 1 defeat in hand over Chelsea (23 pts)
Chelsea have 7 wins, 3 draws and 2 defeat in hand over Liverpool (24 pts)

Liverpool v Arsenal
Comparison from 15 'common' fixtures so far including the head to head at Arsenal
Liverpool     37pts (next game Everton home - Arsenal beat Everton at home)
Arsenal        30pts (next game Hull away - we haven't played Hull away yet)
Liverpool have 2 wins, 3 draws & 1 defeat in hand over Arsenal (9 pts)
Arsenal have 2 wins, 2 draws & 2 defeats in hand over Liverpool (8 pts)   

Liverpool v Villa
Comparison from 12 'common' fixtures so far including the head to head at Villa Park)
Liverpool     25pts (next game Everton at home - Villa haven't played Everton at home yet)
Villa           19pts (next game Sunderland away - we won away to Sunderland)
Liverpool have 6 wins, 3 draws in hand over Villa (21 pts)
Villa have 7 wins, 1 draw & 1 defeats in hand over Liverpool (22pts)   
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Offline Brentieke

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #407 on: January 14, 2009, 10:18:05 pm »

LFC's Points in Second Half of Season Since 3 Points For a Win

(Last 19 games for seasons longer than 38 games)


48  -  1981/82 (1st)
48  -  1988/89 (2nd)

44  -  1989/90 (1st)

43  -  1985/86 (1st)
43  -  2001/02 (2nd)

42  -  1984/85 (2nd)

41  -  2005/06 (3rd)

39  -  2007/08 (4th)

38  -  1986/87 (2nd)

37  -  1987/88 (1st)
37  -  1995/96 (3rd)

36  -  2000/01 (3rd)

35  -  1983/84 (1st)

34  -  2006/07 (3rd)

33  -  1999/2000 (4th)

32  -  1982/83 (1st)  [No wins and 5 defeats in last 7 when title safe)
32  -  2002/03 (5th)

31  -  1990/91 (2nd)
31  -  1997/98 (3rd)
31  -  2003/04 (4th)

30  -  1992/93 (5th)
30  -  1996/97 (4th)

29  -  1994/95 (4th)

27  -  2004/05 (5th)

26  -  1991/92 (6th)
26  -  1998/99 (7th)

24  -  1993/94 (8th)



So to take the title, we'll need one of our best ever finishes (in the 3 point era) to add to one of our best ever starts.  It's very unlikely that we'll need to equal the 48 points which is our best for the last 19 games of a season.  But unless we achieve our 3rd best run-in, then we may well fall short of what is required.






What is interesting here for me is that this debunks the myth that Rafa's teams perfrom better in the second half of the season...

07/08 39 points in the 2nd part 37 points in the first part
06/07  34 points in the 2nd part 34 points in the first part
05/06 41 points in the 2nd part and 41 points in the 1st part
04/05 27 points in the second part and 27 as well I think in the 1st part

So apart from last year, with only 2 more points gained, its basically been the same level of performance all year round. Why does this pereception exist however that we are always better in the second part?
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Offline keyo

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #408 on: January 14, 2009, 11:37:55 pm »
What is interesting here for me is that this debunks the myth that Rafa's teams perfrom better in the second half of the season...

07/08 39 points in the 2nd part 37 points in the first part
06/07  34 points in the 2nd part 34 points in the first part
05/06 41 points in the 2nd part and 41 points in the 1st part
04/05 27 points in the second part and 27 as well I think in the 1st part

So apart from last year, with only 2 more points gained, its basically been the same level of performance all year round. Why does this pereception exist however that we are always better in the second part?

I think may be it is relatively speaking, as each of the other sides in the big four generally get less points in the 2nd half of the season than the first (although they each have a season where they have improved in the 2nd half)

and then i suppose it is down to relative to each of the other top four sides
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Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #409 on: January 15, 2009, 08:42:53 am »

...and that would give us 85 points. I still think 84 will win it.

I think the absolute minimum that LFC could get and win the title is 84 points.  I doubt 84 would be enough, but I'm certain 83 or less wont be.

If we get 88 (or more), then I think we'd be almost certain to be champions.  (It's not a mathematical certainty, of course, but I'm sure it would be OK.)

84, 85, 86, 87 points might win it for us - but I think there's a fairly good chance that MU &/or Chelski will score somewhere in that range too.  So it'd be touch and go.

Basically, the lower our total, the more important it is for us to win our games against MUN  and CHE.  But I dont think a low total will probably be enough, because I think both MUN  and CHE will have better second halves to the season than their respective first halves.


Exciting for us just to be in it though.  Let's hope we're still considering all these perms in 2 months time! :)





Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #410 on: January 15, 2009, 08:46:04 am »
Updating the clean sheets:

08/9 - 12
07/8 - 11


Is that 11 clean sheets up to this same stage last season (ie 21 games)?

Is Pepe in the lead for the Golden Gloves again?



Offline JP-65

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #411 on: January 15, 2009, 09:13:12 am »
Is that 11 clean sheets up to this same stage last season (ie 21 games)?

Is Pepe in the lead for the Golden Gloves again?




Equivalent matches.  I don't keep track of who was goalkeeper, but Man Utd have had 14 & Chelsea 13.

Offline JP-65

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #412 on: January 15, 2009, 09:20:09 am »
Here's the season to go summary after last night's match.

If 87 points are needed to win, Arsenal, Villa and Chelsea, while mathematically are still in it, realistically they won't get there.

Even for Man Utd and ourselves, 87 is looking a little stretched, I think 86 or maybe 85 will do it now.

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #413 on: January 15, 2009, 09:24:03 am »
Gents - I asked a page or so back, but... if we've outperformed our previous first half track record by 7 points this season with key players absent for long periods and questionable form for spells, then who's to say we won't outperform our run-in from previous seasons given a return to full squad strength and the possibility of us clicking into gear? Are we expecting like-for-like based on our run-ins from previous years?

Offline GBF

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #414 on: January 15, 2009, 09:31:51 am »
Forget points....Ive just realised we scored more goals than the "most exciting team" in England (Arsenal) , thats quite something as we usually have a crap goal record
01111001 01101111 01110101 00100111 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101110 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110111 01100001 01101100 01101011 00100000 01100001 01101100 01101111 01101110 01100101

Offline JP-65

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #415 on: January 15, 2009, 09:32:03 am »
Gents - I asked a page or so back, but... if we've outperformed our previous first half track record by 7 points this season with key players absent for long periods and questionable form for spells, then who's to say we won't outperform our run-in from previous seasons given a return to full squad strength and the possibility of us clicking into gear? Are we expecting like-for-like based on our run-ins from previous years?

Roy
It's in the number in my chart above, just look at the points per match achieved and required.  To finish at 85 points requires us to go 2.29 ppm for the remaining 17 matches, which is close to what we've done so far.  87 requires 2.41 which is achievable, but difficult, when you look at other teams performance in this chart.

I'll take a look at other seasons to get a longer term historical perspective on what's possible and post back.

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #416 on: January 15, 2009, 09:36:03 am »
Sorry JP - I didn't read the table in enough detail.

It all depends on the attitude described in Shanks1965's post really, doesn't it?

Edit: thanks again for this detail guys - really it's superb stuff.

Offline redtel

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #417 on: January 15, 2009, 09:48:49 am »
Here's the season to go summary after last night's match.

If 87 points are needed to win, Arsenal, Villa and Chelsea, while mathematically are still in it, realistically they won't get there.

Even for Man Utd and ourselves, 87 is looking a little stretched, I think 86 or maybe 85 will do it now.

Thanks JP-65 .

Lets assume 86 is a winning total.

We need 40 pts from 17 games or 2.35 pts per game.

We can drop only 11pts.  4 draws and 1 defeat.  2 defeats would mean we would get 85pts with 3draws and 87pts with 2 draws.

Given Rafa's  philosophy that a draw is better than a defeat I would think 12 wins and 4 draws is a possibility.

Looking at the 2.35pts per game. This is 7.05 pts every 3 games, so winning 2 then drawing the third would see us almost on target.
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Offline JP-65

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #418 on: January 15, 2009, 09:54:14 am »
Here's a look at points per match over another couple of seasons.  Seems last seasons finish was the strongest in a few years, and still was a little less than the ppm required to get to 87 points.

Man Utd and Chelsea did have some very strong starts though!

I have to compile data to look further back, which I will do, but it'll take some time.

Offline JP-65

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #419 on: January 15, 2009, 10:00:21 am »
Interesting to look at Arsenal in the charts above......for 3 1/2 seasons now they've basically been around 1.9 ppm or 72 points a season, other than the first half last season, where IMO they overachieved, and made last season look better. 

They've reverted to form this season!

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #420 on: January 15, 2009, 10:01:59 am »
Chelsea's opening run in 05/06 is frightening eh?

JP - what tool do you use to compile these mate (sorry for being nosey).

Offline JP-65

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #421 on: January 15, 2009, 10:05:58 am »
Chelsea's opening run in 05/06 is frightening eh?

JP - what tool do you use to compile these mate (sorry for being nosey).

Just an excel spreadsheet and a screen grabber, not much to maintain once it's set up.  The equivalent match one is a lot more complicated to keep up.

I was going to comment on that Chelsea run, they tailed off in the back part of that season, and have never been the same since, although they did compete well at the end of last season.  In retrospect, Avram Grant wasn't given the credit he deserved as they performed really well in the run in last season.

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #422 on: January 15, 2009, 01:17:25 pm »
Here's 2 more seasons, which includes Chelsea's 95 point season, and Arsenal's unbeaten season.

These 2 extraordinary seasons produced ppm at the back end which were not much different than what Man Utd & ourselves will have to do to get to 87 points.....can't see it happening, 85 will probably do it, 86 at the most.

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #423 on: January 15, 2009, 01:45:18 pm »
Is there a danger of a 2nd half season collapse if we are only getting similar results against the same teams as last year?
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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #424 on: January 15, 2009, 01:47:59 pm »
Is there a danger of a 2nd half season collapse if we are only getting similar results against the same teams as last year?

Could be, logically sound.

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #425 on: January 15, 2009, 02:31:44 pm »
Another observation from the season to go analysis.

Chelsea need 2.65 ppm to get to 87 points, which hasn't been done over the past 6 seasons, including some of the best PL season long performances.

In fact, only for 1 part of a season, over 6 1/2 near halves, has a team exceeded this, which was the first half of their 2nd successive league win.

In summary, if 87 points wins it, Chelsea ain't getting there!  It's a 2 horse race now.

Offline The Jackal

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #426 on: January 15, 2009, 02:42:08 pm »
Good spot JP.

I think Scolari knows this in fact. I saw him quoted the other day as saying this Chelsea team 'aren't ready to win the title'.

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Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #427 on: January 16, 2009, 07:21:02 am »
Another observation from the season to go analysis.

Chelsea need 2.65 ppm to get to 87 points, which hasn't been done over the past 6 seasons, including some of the best PL season long performances.

In fact, only for 1 part of a season, over 6 1/2 near halves, has a team exceeded this, which was the first half of their 2nd successive league win.

In summary, if 87 points wins it, Chelsea ain't getting there!  It's a 2 horse race now.

Yeah, I agree that it is pretty unlikely that CHE will get 87 points, and will probably be relying on LIV & MUN to drop points.

But 45 points from 17 games has been done several times in recent years (MUN, CHE, ARS have done it at least twice each). Back in the 80s, Liverpool also did it at least a couple of times.

So it certainly isnt common, but it is something which a very good team might do. To take the title, CHE might have to prove they are that good.





Offline Shanks1965

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #428 on: January 17, 2009, 08:32:06 pm »
Game for Game comparison comparing only the points from the same fixtures played.

Only one word to described today's results - gutting. Of the 4 wins attributable to our rivals the one that hurts us here is Chelsea's. Drawing at home to Stoke was always going to a game that we would probably lose ground to the other 4 from but to be within minutes of actually taking a point out of Chelsea only to see them turn it around in the last five minutes is a kick in the guts. With our back log of draws compared to some teams we have to start putting some wins in the bank from now on or we'll have Villa breathing down our neck soon. Anyway.

Liverpool v Man United
Comparison from 17 'common' fixtures so far including the 'head to head' at Anfield.
Liverpool     36pts (next game Everton at home - United haven't played Everton at Old Trafford)
Man United  37pts (next game West Brom away - we haven't played at WBA yet)
Liverpool have 3 wins and 1 draw in hand over United (10pts)
United have 3 wins and 1 draw in hand over Liverpool (10pts)

Liverpool v Chelsea
Comparison from 10 'common' fixtures so far including the 'head to head' at the Bridge.
Liverpool     24pts (next game Everton home - Chelsea haven't played Everton at The Bridge yet)
Chelsea       21pts (next game Boro home - we beat Boro at Anfield)
Liverpool have 6 wins, 4 draws & 1 defeat in hand over Chelsea (22 pts)
Chelsea have 7 wins, 3 draws and 2 defeat in hand over Liverpool (24 pts)

Liverpool v Arsenal
Comparison from 15 'common' fixtures so far including the head to head at Arsenal
Liverpool     37pts (next game Everton home - Arsenal beat Everton at home)
Arsenal        30pts (next game Everton away - we won at Everton)
Liverpool have 2 wins, 3 draws & 1 defeat in hand over Arsenal (9 pts)
Arsenal have 2 wins, 2 draws & 2 defeats in hand over Liverpool (8 pts)   

Liverpool v Villa
Comparison from 12 'common' fixtures so far including the head to head at Villa Park)
Liverpool     28pts (next game Everton at home - Villa haven't played Everton at home yet)
Villa           22pts (next game Pompey away - we haven't played at Pompey yet)
Liverpool have 5 wins, 3 draws in hand over Villa (18 pts)
Villa have 7 wins, 1 draw & 1 defeats in hand over Liverpool (22pts)    
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Offline JP-65

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #429 on: January 20, 2009, 10:31:06 am »
Here's the Top 4 summary after 22 matches:

05/06: Chelsea led with 61 points, and won the league
06/07: Man Utd led with 54 points, and won the league
07/08: Man Utd tied with Arsenal on 51 points, and won the league
08/09: Man Utd lead with 47 points, Liverpool 2nd on goal difference

Hate to say it, but this season is looking like a repeat of last, except us replacing Arsenal as the early leader who fades away.

Offline JP-65

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #430 on: January 20, 2009, 10:35:57 am »
Here's the season to go look.

I've taken the winning total down to 86 as it looks the most likely, and really only Man Utd has a chance to hit this amount.

We've dropped 4 points in the last 2 fixtures on my fixtures to go list, which brings us in on 82 points now :butt

Offline JP-65

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #431 on: January 20, 2009, 10:41:28 am »
The time comps support us finishing around 82-83 points:

1) if we finish the same way as last season, 83 points
2) if we finish the same way as 2005/6, 84 points (we had a long win streak to finish this season)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 10:43:16 am by JP-65 »

Offline JP-65

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #432 on: January 20, 2009, 10:52:17 am »
The equivalent match comps:

The home table shows how Man Utd will win it :butt

Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #433 on: January 20, 2009, 01:49:33 pm »
It's mind boggling that we are negative in the equivalent but still second only to goal difference.
Anyone else being strangely drawn to Dion Dublin's nipples?

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #434 on: January 20, 2009, 02:04:26 pm »
It's mind boggling that we are negative in the equivalent but still second only to goal difference.

Lots of bad results to either duplicate, or improve on!

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #435 on: January 20, 2009, 03:09:02 pm »
are there? did we not have a long winning run last year in February early March?

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #436 on: January 20, 2009, 03:31:22 pm »
are there? did we not have a long winning run last year in February early March?

RFL was talking about the equivalent match, not the time.

Offline Redsfan71

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #437 on: January 20, 2009, 03:37:39 pm »
are there? did we not have a long winning run last year in February early March?

Suede Lady, This shows on the eqivelent games what points are available to gain from the same fixtures last season as the season runs down to the finish line.

Using the Equivelent League basis, breaking down all remaining fixtures by month, below shows the maximum number of points each club can gain.  Notably Arsenal can only gain 2 points by the end of March so the pressure for them to win every game will be intense while we can gain 13, Utd can only gain 6 points while Chelsea can gain 14 and Villa 13 points by the end of March.  Once we get to that stage of the season, the race will be in the home straight and anyone left in it will be under pressure for differing reasons.

January 09

Liverpool can gain 2 points (Win at Stoke)
Man U can gain 3 points (Win at Bolton)
Chelsea can gain 3 points (Win at Man U)
Arsenal can gain 0 points
Aston Villa can gain 8 points (Win at Sunderland and Portsmouth + Home Win vs Wigan)

February 09

Liverpool can gain 6 points (Win at Portsmouth & Middlesboro + Home Win vs Chelsea)
Man U can gain 3 points (Win at West Ham)
Chelsea can gain 7 points(Win at Liverpool and Villa plus Home Win vs Wigan)
Arsenal can gain 0 points
Aston Villa can gain 0 points

March 09

Liverpool can gain 5 points (Win at Man U plus Home Win vs Villa)
Man U can gain 0 points
Chelsea can gain 4 points (Win at Portsmouth & Spurs)
Arsenal can gain 2 points (Win at Newcastle)
Aston Villa can gain 5 points (Win at Man City & Liverpool)

April 09

Liverpool can gain 2 points (Home Win vs Arsenal)
Man U can gain 0 points
Chelsea can gain 4 points (Home Win vs Everton & Bolton)
Arsenal can gain 6 points (Win at Wigan & Liverpool plus Home Win vs Middlesboro)
Aston Villa can gain 5 points (Win at Man U and Bolton)

May 09

Liverpool can gain 8 points (Win at West Ham & West Brom + Home Win vs Spurs)
Man U can gain 5 points (Win at Middlesboro plus Home Win vs Man City)
Chelsea can gain 7 points (Win at Arsenal plus Home Wins vs Fulham & Blackburn)
Arsenal can gain 7 points (Win at Portsmouth and Man U plus Home Win vs Stoke)
Aston Villa can gain 3 points (Win at Fulham)
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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #438 on: January 20, 2009, 08:33:56 pm »
Hmmm

Liverpool v Man United
Comparison from 17 'common' fixtures so far including the 'head to head' at Anfield.
Liverpool     36pts (next game Wigan away - United haven't played at Wigan yet)
Man United  37pts (next game West Brom away - we haven't played at WBA yet)
Liverpool have 3 wins and 2 draws in hand over United (11pts)
United have 3 wins and 1 draw in hand over Liverpool (10pts)

Liverpool v Chelsea
Comparison from 10 'common' fixtures so far including the 'head to head' at the Bridge.
Liverpool     24pts (next game Wigan away - Chelsea won at Wigan)
Chelsea       21pts (next game Boro home - we beat Boro at Anfield)
Liverpool have 6 wins, 5 draws & 1 defeat in hand over Chelsea (23 pts)
Chelsea have 7 wins, 3 draws and 2 defeat in hand over Liverpool (24 pts)

Liverpool v Arsenal
Comparison from 16 'common' fixtures so far including the head to head at Arsenal
Liverpool     38pts (next game Wigan away - Arsenal haven't played at Wigan yet)
Arsenal        33pts (next game Everton away - we won at Everton)
Liverpool have 2 wins, 3 draws & 1 defeat in hand over Arsenal (9 pts)
Arsenal have 2 wins, 2 draws & 2 defeats in hand over Liverpool (8 pts)   

Liverpool v Villa
Comparison from 13 'common' fixtures so far including the head to head at Villa Park)
Liverpool     28pts (next game Wigan away - Villa won at Wigan)
Villa           22pts (next game Pompey away - we haven't played at Pompey yet)
Liverpool have 5 wins, 4 draws in hand over Villa (19 pts)
Villa have 7 wins, 1 draw & 1 defeats in hand over Liverpool (22pts)     
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Offline Jack Slater

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Re: The Results Comparison 2008/09
« Reply #439 on: January 21, 2009, 08:13:05 am »


Our best starts for 22 games.

1.  1987/88  -  56 points  [finished 1st:  90 points from 40 games]
2.  1990/91  -  50 points  [finished 2nd:  76 points from 38 games]
3.  1982/83  -  47 points  [finished 1st:  82 points from 42 games]
3.  2008/09  -  47 points
5.  1983/84  -  45 points  [finished 1st:  80 points from 42 games]
5.  1985/86  -  45 points  [finished 1st:  88 points from 42 games]
5.  2005/06  -  45 points  [finished 3rd:  82 points from 38 games]


So the only other time we had 47 points after 22 games, we were champions  ;D

In recent years (the last 5 years, and 7 out of the last 9), the eventual champions have had a lot more points at this stage.  But taking a longer view, in the 18 seasons since our last win, almost half the time, the eventual champions have had 47 points or less at this stage.