Author Topic: Youth and Under 23 Thread  (Read 8751815 times)

Offline Aceldama

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92520 on: March 19, 2017, 02:04:11 PM »
Right, so let me get this straight. Wales have had a player in their youth teams since he was 12 years old. He's now 17 and is featuring on the bench and getting first team minutes for a side with an array of attacking talent currently sitting in the top 4 of the Premier League. All of a sudden England are interested in him playing for them (but have ignored him for the last 5 years until he popped up for Liverpool) yet it's Wales that are doing the shitty thing that stinks? Can't get my head round that.

This is a very dead horse by now, but you're struggling to get your head roudn it because you've got the details of the situation completely wrong. England first tried to call him up at U16 level years ago, nothing "all of a sudden" about it. He made his debut for a Wales youth team in March 2014 and that England call up was August 2014. 

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92521 on: March 19, 2017, 02:12:42 PM »
The lad has made his decision. It was his choice. Nobody forced it on him. I bet he's delighted he's been called up. Can we drop it now?
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92522 on: March 19, 2017, 02:58:49 PM »
This is a very dead horse by now, but you're struggling to get your head roudn it because you've got the details of the situation completely wrong. England first tried to call him up at U16 level years ago, nothing "all of a sudden" about it. He made his debut for a Wales youth team in March 2014 and that England call up was August 2014. 

What am I struggling to get my head round? I'm not trying to argue or be provocative. Im just a bit at odds as to why people have made such a big thing of it. It's not possible for him to be 'snatched'. He's not being forced to go, the decision is Ben's to make. And people are for some reason against it. Even with the 'completely wrong' understanding I have, now that you have enlightened me to the real situation I am still absolutely chuffed to bits that a young lad has been called up for the national team OF HIS CHOICE.
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Offline xbugawugax

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92523 on: March 19, 2017, 03:09:08 PM »
Chirivella just scored for Go Ahead Eagles. getting a lot of game time too which is only good for him and us.

also seems to be scoring a few. Can't remember him scoring many for us.

Offline Aceldama

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92524 on: March 19, 2017, 03:43:25 PM »
What am I struggling to get my head round? I'm not trying to argue or be provocative.

You literally said "All of a sudden England are interested in him playing for them (but have ignored him for the last 5 years until he popped up for Liverpool) yet it's Wales that are doing the shitty thing that stinks? Can't get my head round that." in your post. I quoted the post and explained why what you said in it was incorrect. Are you still struggling to get your head round it?

Offline Aceldama

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92525 on: March 19, 2017, 03:49:21 PM »
First U23 start for Yan Dhanda?

Quote

Offline SwordInYourGut

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92526 on: March 19, 2017, 06:29:46 PM »
Explain
If he is good enough for Liverpool's bench surely he is good enough for Wales'?

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92527 on: March 19, 2017, 06:32:14 PM »
First U23 start for Yan Dhanda?

Anyone know how the lads got on, can't find anything online.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92528 on: March 19, 2017, 06:41:33 PM »
Anyone know how the lads got on, can't find anything online.

Won on pens. 1-1 at full time, Virtue with the equaliser. We went 2-1 up in extra time before they equalised, no idea on that goal or the pens scored/missed, it was 5-4 on pens though.
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92529 on: March 19, 2017, 06:42:47 PM »
Won on pens. 1-1 at full time, Virtue with the equaliser. We went 2-1 up in extra time before they equalised, no idea on that goal or the pens scored/missed, it was 5-4 on pens though.
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92530 on: March 19, 2017, 06:44:23 PM »
Hahaha wtf my Sig 😃

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Offline sminp

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92531 on: March 19, 2017, 06:45:23 PM »
Cheers mate 

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No problem. FlashScore.com is normally pretty good for u23 live scores, they've had our last few games on there.
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Offline reddebs

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92532 on: March 19, 2017, 06:56:17 PM »
No problem. FlashScore.com is normally pretty good for u23 live scores, they've had our last few games on there.
Thanks again mate I'll remember that.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92533 on: March 19, 2017, 10:34:00 PM »
If he is good enough for Liverpool's bench surely he is good enough for Wales'?

Quite.

Given Wales' attacking options off the bench are Sam Vokes (who is mostly on the bench for Burnley) and Hal Robson-Kanu (who is mostly on the bench for WBA), I think there's a strong argument that Woodburn (who gets on the bench for Liverpool) is a decent shout for the Welsh squad. He'd likely have been joining up with the junior teams regardless, so why wouldn't we want him to train with / learn from Gareth Bale instead? Great experience for him.
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92534 on: March 19, 2017, 10:42:43 PM »
I didn't even realize they were playing tonight. Great to see they have won again. Keep it going lads.
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92535 on: March 20, 2017, 12:36:39 PM »
Harry Wilson called into the Wales squad
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Offline sminp

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92536 on: March 20, 2017, 12:52:04 PM »
Harry Wilson called into the Wales squad

He's already tied to Wales isn't he? In which case we can be more confident in the reasons why he's been called up.
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Offline LiamG

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92537 on: March 20, 2017, 01:33:30 PM »
He's already tied to Wales isn't he? In which case we can be more confident in the reasons why he's been called up.

Is wales youngest cap ever i think? so he'd been called up before yes

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92538 on: March 20, 2017, 02:15:24 PM »
He's already tied to Wales isn't he? In which case we can be more confident in the reasons why he's been called up.

Yes, for once we don't need to be suspicious of these countries which are not the England national football team, that bastion of good manners and decency.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92539 on: March 20, 2017, 06:09:41 PM »
I think he and FIFA disagree, but whatever makes you happy
Well actually Fifa do not disagree. Fifa rules clearly state that he could not play for Wales because he is not Welsh. However he can play for Wales because his grandfather (not Ben) is Welsh. Note the difference.

The fact that he was born to two English parent and in England means he is English but whatever makes you happy.

*I am neither nationality so couldnt care less who he plays for but would prefer him to play for Wales. I believe it will be best for his Liverpool career.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 06:14:00 PM by dakid »

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92540 on: March 20, 2017, 06:30:23 PM »
Yes, for once we don't need to be suspicious of these countries which are not the England national football team, that bastion of good manners and decency.

I'm not suspicious mate, I just wondered if we were going to have a load of people banging on about Wilson and Wales in the same way they did for Woodburn. I personally couldn't give a shit who these guys play for, it's their lives and I hate international football anyway.
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Offline phil236849

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92541 on: March 20, 2017, 06:53:11 PM »
Well actually Fifa do not disagree. Fifa rules clearly state that he could not play for Wales because he is not Welsh. However he can play for Wales because his grandfather (not Ben) is Welsh. Note the difference.

The fact that he was born to two English parent and in England means he is English but whatever makes you happy.

*I am neither nationality so couldnt care less who
Well actually Fifa do not disagree. Fifa rules clearly state that he could not play for Wales because he is not Welsh. However he can play for Wales because his grandfather (not Ben) is Welsh. Note the difference.

The fact that he was born to two English parent and in England means he is English but whatever makes you happy.

*I am neither nationality so couldnt care less who he plays for but would prefer him to play for Wales. I believe it will be best for his Liverpool career.
he plays for but would prefer him to play for Wales. I believe it will be best for his Liverpool career.

How are they both English parents if the grandfather is Welsh. There seems a bizarre Welsh denial in the air.  If Ben woodburn says he is Welsh and can satisfy the tests, what is the point of this pantomime "oh no you're not"

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92542 on: March 20, 2017, 06:55:09 PM »
I'm not suspicious mate, I just wondered if we were going to have a load of people banging on about Wilson and Wales in the same way they did for Woodburn. I personally couldn't give a shit who these guys play for, it's their lives and I hate international football anyway.

Fair dos, the whole debate is ridiculous, and never occurs in relation to players representing England

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92543 on: March 20, 2017, 07:34:48 PM »



How are they both English parents if the grandfather is Welsh.
his parents where born in England, and not Wales.
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92544 on: March 20, 2017, 07:41:38 PM »
his parents where born in England, and not Wales.

Jeez I hate to weigh in on this interminably stupid debate, but if you're born in one country to parents of another country, do you not think that it would be possible that you would identify with the nationality of your parents? National identity is literally impossible to draw definitive lines around, but FIFA drew lines somewhere because they had to. BW is Welsh by the only measure that matters, which is FIFA's.

Good on Ben and Harry for getting into the squad... I hope they get tonked on Friday :)
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92545 on: March 20, 2017, 07:54:20 PM »
Jeez I hate to weigh in on this interminably stupid debate, but if you're born in one country to parents of another country, do you not think that it would be possible that you would identify with the nationality of your parents?

of course i can, seen it firsthand..But his question was   "How are they both English parents if the grandfather is Welsh. "
thats alls i was answering, not the validity of the players call up

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92546 on: March 20, 2017, 08:04:11 PM »
By the looks of it we (Rep Of Ireland) will be looking for Wales to loan us a few players to make up the numbers on Friday night so you never know, he  may end up playing in green !

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92547 on: March 20, 2017, 09:41:33 PM »
Wilson and woodburn gonna tear it up for Wales in the future 😃
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92548 on: March 20, 2017, 09:42:51 PM »
By the looks of it we (Rep Of Ireland) will be looking for Wales to loan us a few players to make up the numbers on Friday night so you never know, he  may end up playing in green !
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92549 on: March 20, 2017, 10:14:48 PM »
Staggering how people don't realise how little depth Wales have in footy terms and how they've always given early debuts to players to get them settled into the set up. Gareth Bale made his debut at 16 and Giggs at 17. Woodburn might get a sub appearance if he's lucky and he's 17.

With Simon Church injured - Wales' 4th choice attacker - Ben Woodburn was called up as our 6th option in attack. He's behind Bale, Vokes, Robson-Kanu, Tom Lawrence (on-loan at Ipswich) and Tom Bradshaw (Barnsley) - 1 of the top players in world footy, 2 benched Prem strikers for mid-table clubs and 2 Championship players. Why people keep insisting this is about 'keeping him from playing for England' I'll never know.

With Tom Lawrence out injured, again there isn't much choice and having impressed in the U21s and being such an exciting talent, Harry Wilson was always next in line for a call up. He would have been ahead of Woodburn but hasn't had the 1st team experience that Ben has had this season.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 10:16:59 PM by iamnant »
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Offline Die Nullfünfer

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92550 on: March 20, 2017, 10:23:52 PM »
Harry Wilson called into the Wales squad

which kinda shows that Wales are a bit thin on striking talents, and I don't mean that as a dig at Harry Wilson :D

I hope both of them carry on developing and end up being regular starters in the Wales set up in good time.
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92551 on: March 20, 2017, 10:27:13 PM »
Late call up for McAuley and Masterson incoming.

Don't forget Kelleher, who is an excellent goalie prospect.
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92552 on: March 20, 2017, 10:39:06 PM »
his parents where born in England, and not Wales.

And if he can be Welsh from a grandfather, so can the grandfather's offspring

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92553 on: March 20, 2017, 10:55:41 PM »
And if he can be Welsh from a grandfather, so can the grandfather's offspring

Got a question that just popped up in my head, if Woodburn were to have kids born in England would they be able to represent Wales one day? :) ???

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92554 on: March 20, 2017, 11:11:46 PM »
It seems that Klopp is not very happy about Woodburn getting called into the Wales squad this early.

Klopp expected a call from Coleman over Woodburn's Wales call-up


Liverpool boss says there are now two managers responsible for gifted teenager

Jurgen Klopp says he was “surprised” that Chris Coleman didn’t bother phoning him prior to naming Liverpool’s Ben Woodburn in the senior Wales squad.

The Reds boss, who has been keen to shield the gifted teenager from the spotlight, only learned about Woodburn’s inclusion when his maiden call-up was made public last week.

The 17-year-old attacker, who was an unused substitute at the Etihad Stadium on Sunday, had previously been part of Wales’ Under-19s set-up, but was elevated to the senior ranks by Coleman after just seven first-team appearances for Liverpool.

Asked if he had spoken to Coleman about Woodburn, Klopp said: “Actually, I was surprised about this.

“I don’t know exactly how it’s normal here. This should not be a criticism, but usually when you call up a player, a 17-year-old player, I thought it would be possible to call me.

“I’m not sure if he knows him well. He didn’t play in the team so far for Coleman I think. But no call.”

Woodburn has linked up with Coleman’s squad to begin preparations for this Friday’s World Cup qualifier against the Republic of Ireland in Dublin.

Klopp would have preferred that Woodburn was given more time to develop at club level and he’s now relying on Coleman to look after the youngest goal scorer in Liverpool’s history.

“If he stopped learning now, that would make no sense at 17,” Klopp added.

“I’m not in doubt about this. We didn’t hide him. We used him all the time. He’s a fixed part of our training. He can deal with the nomination for Wales 100%.

“It’s a little bit like my situation. As long as you give me the time, as long as we give him the time, everything will be good.

“He has to learn, he has to develop, he has to improve, all of this. That’s why I said there are now two managers responsible for him. Until now, it was only my job.”

The Football Association had hoped to convince Chester-born Woodburn to switch allegiances to England, but he’s opted to remain loyal to the country he’s represented at youth level since he was 13.

Coleman remains adamant that he picked Woodburn on merit for the senior squad rather than as a result of the speculation about his international future so he had no need to call Klopp.

“I make my own mind up about a player,” Coleman said.

“I understand when you pick young players then clubs go: ‘Oh, calm down’, but I make my own mind up.

“No matter how old he is, if he is good enough and I think he has something to offer us and can help us in this challenge then I am going to pick him. That’s no disrespect to Jurgen or anybody else who say maybe he’s not.

“He belongs to them but I’ve got a job to do for Wales and I have to pick my strongest squad. At the minute from what I have seen he belongs in our strongest 23. That’s why he is there.”

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/klopp-expected-call-coleman-over-12768780#ICID=sharebar
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Offline Die Nullfünfer

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92555 on: March 20, 2017, 11:35:46 PM »
I was a bit surpised that no contact was made between Wales and Liverpool, I wonder if that was the same when Wilson was called up the first time?

It's cool that Kloppo is concerned and protective though, and rightly and understandibaly so as well.  I hope Coleman is the same and respects how Liverpool are dealing with him breaking into the first team at such a young age.
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92556 on: March 20, 2017, 11:43:55 PM »
I was a bit surpised that no contact was made between Wales and Liverpool, I wonder if that was the same when Wilson was called up the first time?

It's cool that Kloppo is concerned and protective though, and rightly and understandibaly so as well.  I hope Coleman is the same and respects how Liverpool are dealing with him breaking into the first team at such a young age.

I would agree. I said before it was obvious that Ben would be used a bit this season at least off the bench. I imagine Klopp would have liked to have had him in Tenerife but this call up has put paid to that. I have mixed feelings about it to be honest. While I'm happy for Ben, I would rather he had stayed with the club this season and developed under Klopp. There would have been plenty of time for a call-up next season rather than now. I just hope it all goes well for him.
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92557 on: March 20, 2017, 11:46:53 PM »

Offline Aceldama

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92558 on: March 20, 2017, 11:52:10 PM »
Got a question that just popped up in my head, if Woodburn were to have kids born in England would they be able to represent Wales one day? :) ???

Interesting question. No they wouldn't. They could become eligible under the home nations "education clause" if they moved to Wales and spent five years in the Welsh education system before the age of 18. That rule is how Karamoko Dembele got eligible for Scotland.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve lads like?
« Reply #92559 on: March 21, 2017, 12:20:08 AM »
Interesting question. No they wouldn't. They could become eligible under the home nations "education clause" if they moved to Wales and spent five years in the Welsh education system before the age of 18. That rule is how Karamoko Dembele got eligible for Scotland.

Unless the mother was Welsh, I guess, or had a Welsh parent or parents.
@montigol