Poll

Please select the teams you think would win in the following matches:

Lastrador
5 (8.9%)
Tubby
9 (16.1%)
PoetryInMotion
8 (14.3%)
mikey_LFC
6 (10.7%)
Betty Blue
9 (16.1%)
SheerMagnetism
5 (8.9%)
JSteve
8 (14.3%)
Trend
6 (10.7%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Voting closed: April 8, 2019, 02:05:20 PM

Author Topic: The Decisions, Decisions Draft - Derby Day Edition - Quarter Final  (Read 505 times)

Offline mikey_LFC

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Welcome to RAWK's Derby Day draft. Each drafter was tasked with building a team in their own image by picking their choice of players to have played in some of football's most fiercely contested derby matches.

Please judge the following matches on which team you believe would be best equipped to win over a 90 minute game of football, rather than on individuals -

____________________________________________Game 1________________________________________________

Lastrador                                                   V                                                Tubby

                         

____________________________________________Game 2________________________________________________

PoetryInMotion                                                       V                                                         mikey_LFC

                         

____________________________________________Game 3________________________________________________

Betty Blue                                                       V                                                SheerMagnetism

                         

____________________________________________Game 4________________________________________________

JSteve                                                        V                                              Trend

                         
« Last Edit: April 6, 2019, 02:07:04 PM by mikey_LFC »
"A lot of football success is in the mind. You must believe you are the best and then make sure that you are." - Bill Shankly

Offline Sheer Magnetism

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Re: The Decisions, Decisions Draft - Derby Day Edition - Quarter Final
« Reply #1 on: April 6, 2019, 05:02:49 PM »
Huh. Wasn't expecting to be losing this. The team structure's based on our 1987-88 team, a 4-4-2 that can shift to 4-3-3 on either side, and nine out of the 10 outfield players are hard workers in addition to being skillful. I have the best sweeper keeper in history behind a back four that are all quick and well organised - a high line completely shuts down a team with two goalhanging number nines.

And there's a reason two attacking full backs have only just come back into vogue, they don't work against out-and-out wingers. This is what happens when you play a 4-3-3 with two attacking full backs and a midfielder in defence against a team with two wingers and a lightning fast forward line, you get picked off on the break again and again:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/X_3r96u5r8U" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/X_3r96u5r8U</a>

Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: The Decisions, Decisions Draft - Derby Day Edition - Quarter Final
« Reply #2 on: April 6, 2019, 06:30:06 PM »
Gambler a bit with my line up and steal pick, it’s not paying off but I wouldn’t have changed it.

My team is set up to dominate possession, it’s full of technically brilliant players.

Only question I had was whether to drop Suuriber or Marcelo, with Suuriber taking the right centre back spot and Mascherano moving into the middle, but that role for Marcelo is basically a left wing so it made sense.

Hopefully the last few voters appreciate this but Poetry’s side is also fantastic so fair play to him.
"A lot of football success is in the mind. You must believe you are the best and then make sure that you are." - Bill Shankly

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: The Decisions, Decisions Draft - Derby Day Edition - Quarter Final
« Reply #3 on: April 6, 2019, 06:34:56 PM »
Gambler a bit with my line up and steal pick, it’s not paying off but I wouldn’t have changed it.

My team is set up to dominate possession, it’s full of technically brilliant players.

Only question I had was whether to drop Suuriber or Marcelo, with Suuriber taking the right centre back spot and Mascherano moving into the middle, but that role for Marcelo is basically a left wing so it made sense.

Hopefully the last few voters appreciate this but Poetry’s side is also fantastic so fair play to him.

I went with

Lastrador - like his backline and midfield  more
Blue Betty - best team in the draw (imo)
Mikey - weird shape and three at the back, but Mo Salah put me over the top.  Mo Salah, the Egyptian King
Trend -  Torrez/Dalglish/Zidane/Vieira/Seedorf are not going to be able to break down my six (Baresi, Cannavaro, Alberto, Schnell, Simeone and Rakitic) --- they are going to have to throw more numbers forward --- when they do, they are vulnerable.
« Last Edit: April 6, 2019, 06:39:55 PM by The Piss-artist Formerly Known As Trendisnotdestiny »
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Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: The Decisions, Decisions Draft - Derby Day Edition - Quarter Final
« Reply #4 on: April 6, 2019, 07:26:13 PM »
I went with

Lastrador - like his backline and midfield  more
Blue Betty - best team in the draw (imo)
Mikey - weird shape and three at the back, but Mo Salah put me over the top.  Mo Salah, the Egyptian King
Trend -  Torrez/Dalglish/Zidane/Vieira/Seedorf are not going to be able to break down my six (Baresi, Cannavaro, Alberto, Schnell, Simeone and Rakitic) --- they are going to have to throw more numbers forward --- when they do, they are vulnerable.

It is a weird shape, but it’s Cruyffs design, an adaptation of total football,  and has a lot of his teammates and players who’ve played in the system under Cruyffs main disciple Guariola. Guaridola was key to the system working all the way to the European Cup win in 1992. He’s used the principles from this system throughout his coaching career.

Xabi Alonso played Guardiola’s role for him at Bayern. Mascherano played right sided centre back in a three for Barca. Yaya operated the right side of a midfield diamond at Barca too. Ronaldinho operates off the left for Barca in Rijkaard’s adaptation of the total football system and Ibrahimovic played up front for Guardiola.

Vasovic played for Ajax in that position during the height of the total football era.

Salah, Zico, Vierchowod, Marcelo and Schmeichel are all players close to the peak of their position with attributes that perfectly compliment the system too.

It looks weird but nothing in the system is by accident. Best of all the system would flourish most accident a team in a narrow formation!
"A lot of football success is in the mind. You must believe you are the best and then make sure that you are." - Bill Shankly

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: The Decisions, Decisions Draft - Derby Day Edition - Quarter Final
« Reply #5 on: April 6, 2019, 09:28:11 PM »
The analysis gets deeper and deeper here for all games.

About the team, Passarella and Kohler are looking to win any balls around (strong in the air and on the ground, while Passarella is a goal threat on the other other side as well), Facchetti was the best two way full-back ever and Andrade was one of the best wing-halves of the pre-war era. If the ball gets past these in the rare occasion, there's a monster in goal in Yashin, who has saved over 150 penalties (more than any GK) & has recorded over 270 clean-sheets.

Midfield loves a lot of the ball, technically excellent players with strengths of recycling & controlling the middle and also being creative. Ocwirk was a controller & a bit of an all-round midfielder. Didi was one of the best free-kick takers as well, so there's a lot of direct & indirect set-piece threat. The main target here is to isolate Alonso in the opposition midfield, as Toure is a bit of a drifter. This will help the trio have a lot of the ball & out number the opposition in in the middle.

Ocwirk was also an all-round midfielder, so he also tracked back well. Passarella was a great organizer of the defense, so he will get the team to follow a coordinated line & any balls for runs to Salah will be swept up. Also, this side of the pitch has Passarella & Facchetti, two of the best defenders ever. Passarella was great in the air despite not being overtly big, while Kohler was an expert in the air. This negates any threat from Zlatan. Zico feeding Ronaldinho seems to be the biggest threat from the opposition, but it's not something that Andrade and Kohler cannot handle and it will happen very rarely as the opposition midfield is outnumbered, Ocwirk, Didi & Coluna will dominate possession there with their ability on the ball.

Di Stefano was the ultimate playmaker/forward two in one player & him behind Bergkamp & a goal machine in Greaves is a constant threat of goals as all three players were capable of scoring, two of them (in Di Stefano & Bergkamp) have immaculate technique & control of the ball and immense vision & creativity. Greaves was a fast striker with movement (he was not a target striker, so you can see how he suits the team), and you can envision this to be Bergkamp having the ball at the edge of the area, with Greaves doing a Henry type movement into the box - this is that type of partnership, only better because there's also Di Stefano with them. These 3 could create a 3 on 3 against the opposition who seem a bit top heavy & losing control in midfield & 3 on 3 with Di Stefano, Bergkamp & Greaves combining hands the team quite an advantage to exploit the opposition.
« Last Edit: April 6, 2019, 09:45:05 PM by PoetryInMotion »

Offline Betty Blue

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Re: The Decisions, Decisions Draft - Derby Day Edition - Quarter Final
« Reply #6 on: April 7, 2019, 01:58:32 PM »

A bit of a late reply, but now I've written it all out it seems a waste not to post it  :D

Nice idea. However, your team lacks the the level of fullback needed to double up on my guys and really hurt them. Neither Abidal nor Stevens were ever up to much going forward. Both very solid defenders though they were. Bayern had Alaba-Ribery + Lahm-Robben in that dismantling of Barca. The latter an especially unstoppable combination. You have nothing close to that. Roberto Carlos and Dani Alves were also excellent defenders and in a game like this they would hold back to a degree to deal with your wingers. The argument is that this would subdue my own attacking flow, but that ignores one of the biggest strengths in my team - the 4 men in the centre of the park.

Your midfield would be completely dominated by mine. Essien was class in his peak, but in the end it was a very short peak and that must always be taken account of in all-time standings. Schuster is a step up of course and I wouldn't try to blemish his name. But the truth is Matthaus is an absolute elite midfielder (the best ever?) who, alongside the leadership and tough tackling of Dunga and the brute force and intelligence of both Gullit and Socrates, would overpower your two men. Cut out Schuster and I struggle to see who will supply the ammunition for your attack. None of your front 4 are really capable of dropping deep and helping out either. Love digger, but his days at CM were some of his worst for Liverpool. So you've got 2 (and a half) men against 4, an attack which is cut off, and fullbacks that can't punish mine.

Your central defence is brilliant. No arguments there. They would give my two a hell of a rough ride. But ultimately I think this game is won and lost in midfield. It would be a tight affair, but a rocket from Matthaus, Socrates, or Gullit would break the deadlock and leave your team struggling as we squeezed the life out of the midfield and picked you off on the counter.

Oh and calling Vieri a goal hanging number 9 is a crime. The man was an absolute monster at his peak who could score any kind of goal. He was quite underrated IMO. Perhaps overshadowed by the sheer number of great strikers in that era. If anyone's interested, this is a great compilation -

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/g-UIxvFwI4Q" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/g-UIxvFwI4Q</a>
"Don’t let your heads drop. We’re Liverpool. You’re playing for Liverpool. Don’t forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them." - Rafa Benitez, halftime, Istanbul, 2005.

Offline Sheer Magnetism

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Re: The Decisions, Decisions Draft - Derby Day Edition - Quarter Final
« Reply #7 on: April 7, 2019, 02:37:07 PM »
A bit of a late reply, but now I've written it all out it seems a waste not to post it  :D

Nice idea. However, your team lacks the the level of fullback needed to double up on my guys and really hurt them. Neither Abidal nor Stevens were ever up to much going forward. Both very solid defenders though they were. Bayern had Alaba-Ribery + Lahm-Robben in that dismantling of Barca. The latter an especially unstoppable combination. You have nothing close to that. Roberto Carlos and Dani Alves were also excellent defenders and in a game like this they would hold back to a degree to deal with your wingers. The argument is that this would subdue my own attacking flow, but that ignores one of the biggest strengths in my team - the 4 men in the centre of the park.

Your midfield would be completely dominated by mine. Essien was class in his peak, but in the end it was a very short peak and that must always be taken account of in all-time standings. Schuster is a step up of course and I wouldn't try to blemish his name. But the truth is Matthaus is an absolute elite midfielder (the best ever?) who, alongside the leadership and tough tackling of Dunga and the brute force and intelligence of both Gullit and Socrates, would overpower your two men. Cut out Schuster and I struggle to see who will supply the ammunition for your attack. None of your front 4 are really capable of dropping deep and helping out either. Love digger, but his days at CM were some of his worst for Liverpool. So you've got 2 (and a half) men against 4, an attack which is cut off, and fullbacks that can't punish mine.

Your central defence is brilliant. No arguments there. They would give my two a hell of a rough ride. But ultimately I think this game is won and lost in midfield. It would be a tight affair, but a rocket from Matthaus, Socrates, or Gullit would break the deadlock and leave your team struggling as we squeezed the life out of the midfield and picked you off on the counter.

Oh and calling Vieri a goal hanging number 9 is a crime. The man was an absolute monster at his peak who could score any kind of goal. He was quite underrated IMO. Perhaps overshadowed by the sheer number of great strikers in that era.

The high line pushes your number nines into the area where Socrates and Gullit would naturally be, overstuffing the area and removing the space your boys need to create. All my team needs to do is win the ball back and we can bypass the midfield, though both wide players can if necessary come inside as the full backs move up.

Talking of full backs, Stevens was known for his interplay with Trevor Steven, which is why they were both signed for Rangers. Abidal was averaging almost one assist in three in 2009/10. Both were well capable of getting forward, except they don't need to because the wingers will be the danger. Either your wing backs stay back, in which case your team has no width, or they press forward and leave your relatively weak defence outnumbered on the break. Dunga was never top class, which is why he was never signed for a top team, and Sammer never played in a back four.

Obviously this is all moot now, but no way your team doesn't concede a hatful against that front four.

Offline Betty Blue

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Re: The Decisions, Decisions Draft - Derby Day Edition - Quarter Final
« Reply #8 on: April 7, 2019, 03:39:27 PM »

Horses for courses, my friend. I disagree with pretty much everything you just said, as do most voters it seems. Judging players by who they played for is a fool's errand IMO. You could as well argue Pele was not top class because he only played in Brazil! There's a difference between top class fullbacks and world class ones. Neither of yours are in the latter category. And calling my defence weak is really extreme bias. There's nothing weak about any of those 4. All were world class players in their era. Sammer was an intelligent and classy player. I have absolutely no reason to believe he couldn't adapt to playing in a back 4. The modern game allows for ball playing CBs to venture forward far more than in the past, and this would suit him down to the ground.

Ultimately, I think you got a bit greedy in the steals and made a mistake removing Modric from your team. He was an absolutely perfect playmaker for your set up and the extra attacker was not needed. Things may well have played out differently with Cafu for Stevens or even Xabi for Schuster, but who knows really. Anyway, the voting is done in here. Good crack. Happy to see a bit more discussion in these threads than usual.
"Don’t let your heads drop. We’re Liverpool. You’re playing for Liverpool. Don’t forget that. You have to hold your heads high for the supporters. You have to do it for them." - Rafa Benitez, halftime, Istanbul, 2005.

Offline Trendisnotdestiny

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Re: The Decisions, Decisions Draft - Derby Day Edition - Quarter Final
« Reply #9 on: April 7, 2019, 04:02:22 PM »

TRENDS BEST DRAFT EVER ENDS IN TEARS
Best defense in the competition
Underrated worker bee type midfield
Left footed Romanian king-esque (Salah) - inspiration
Eto'o the predecessor to Mane - perspiration
Batigol playing Firmino.... - perservance

How people did not see my team as the epitome of this Liverpool squad, I do not know.

Mad World :)

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/DHtcliIvnHI" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/DHtcliIvnHI</a>

Good luck to JSteve in the next round though.


All good fun!  Thanks Mikey :)

« Last Edit: April 7, 2019, 04:07:01 PM by The Piss-artist Formerly Known As Trendisnotdestiny »
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It’s there to remind our lads who they’re playing for and to remind the opposition who they’re playing against! - Bill Shankly

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You need to get more wives mate, it fixes everything. Apart from then you have loads of wives, which is a nightmare.  -  Djozer

Offline Lastrador

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Re: The Decisions, Decisions Draft - Derby Day Edition - Quarter Finalgue
« Reply #10 on: April 7, 2019, 06:47:08 PM »
Guess my hyper offensive bet didn’t payoff.  ;D

Fair enough, Tubby has a great side.