Author Topic: Arguments against being vegan  (Read 9415 times)

Offline kaz1983

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Arguments against being vegan
« on: March 23, 2019, 07:48:27 AM »
I'm looking for the best arguments against veganism, mainly because there are obviously some very good arguments for and against...... but yeah what are the best arguments against veganism?   ... btw I'm vegan ;)

Ohhhhhhh:

An argument against veganism would consist of some claims that provide rational justification for doubting the central claims of vegans. The claim that a person doesn't care about what happens to animals doesn't do that...

Offline rob1966

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2019, 08:12:45 AM »
The sheer amount of land that is required to grow the crops can displace animals and lead to them struggling to find food and ultimately their death. There is also the environmental impact of the the packaging that the food comes in and also the impact of shipping the food around the world. If we wanted a varied diet in the UK, we would have to be shipping more and more from the likes of Europe, Spain and South America than we already do. Also, when wild species that we previously ate are no longer hunted, then their populations can grow to the point where they become an issue. Belgium for example has a big problem with wild boar, the population has exploded and they are destroying farmland, it has gotten so bad that they are talking of injecting contraceptives into the animals to control their numbers.

Full scale veganism will I feel lead to the extinction of species, as if we stopped drinking milk, eating eggs, wearing leather etc, then what is the point of cattle, sheep and chickens etc? They will just be competition for the food so we will wipe them out. Also, instead of using natural items like leather to make clothing, we end up manufacturing which again has an impact on the earth.

Sounds harsh, but In its basic form, prey exists to feed predators and predators exist to control the prey populations. What we need to do is ban factory farming, eat less meat than we do - lets get rid of McNastys and KFC and eat more wild animals such as rabbit or kangaroo.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 08:14:55 AM by rob1966 »

Offline Craig 🤔

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2019, 08:13:42 AM »
That itís harder to get a varied diet in order to obtain all the vitamins and nutrients you need that you can get from also having meat in your diet.

Offline rob1966

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2019, 08:16:25 AM »
That itís harder to get a varied diet in order to obtain all the vitamins and nutrients you need that you can get from also having meat in your diet.

I forgot to put that - supplements have to be taken, which again causes environmental damage in the manufacture, the plastic packing and the huge shipping impact.

Offline a treeless whopper

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2019, 08:21:00 AM »
Meat, chicken, fish, seafood, milk, cheese and eggs are all just very, very tasty.

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2019, 08:25:07 AM »
It depends on the health of the person you're targetting the arguments at?

From experience of family, for a diabetic it's almost impossible to go zero / low carb long term without meat in your diet.

Greatest poison / killer on the planet sugar is, perfectly legal and available. It's far more important to be anti-sugar than anti meat.

Offline JC the Messiah

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2019, 08:35:12 AM »
Bacon.
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Offline kaz1983

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2019, 08:38:57 AM »
Some interesting examples of how there's good and bad in everything.... I know that it's an arbitrary line and that by taking meat and dairy out of my diet it's not going to make a difference at all - the grand scheme of things.....

Not eating meat and dairy for me just makes me feel more at peace with the world and not conflicted about certain things humans do.... that said, there is good and bad in everything.... what I believe is probably not what the person standing next to me believes.. would be stupid think otherwise .... some interesting points being raised here
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 08:44:27 AM by kaz1983 »

Offline Craig 🤔

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2019, 08:45:43 AM »
Some interesting examples of how there's good and bad in everything.... I know that it's an arbitrary line and that by taking meat and dairy out of my diet it's not going to make a difference at all - the grand scheme of things.....

It will make a massive difference if you donít then find a way to get the nutrients found in abundance in meat and dairy which are not in other foods.

Offline kaz1983

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2019, 08:49:30 AM »
That itís harder to get a varied diet in order to obtain all the vitamins and nutrients you need that you can get from also having meat in your diet.
It's harder your right but it's easily possible... just have to put some thought into what you're cooking and just accept that it will take 10 more minutes per meal to prepare

Offline Craig 🤔

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2019, 08:54:09 AM »
It's harder your right but it's easily possible... just have to put some thought into what you're cooking and just accept that it will take 10 more minutes per meal to prepare

Not everyone is aware, knows how, or bothers with doing that though. Itís def one of the arguments against going vegan imo.

Offline kaz1983

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2019, 08:54:10 AM »
It will make a massive difference if you donít then find a way to get the nutrients found in abundance in meat and dairy which are not in other foods.

This is what I thought too.... I told my friend who was vegan two years ago that he's crazy lol .... you can get all your nutrients and no you don't have to eat meat and dairy, just cause it's there..

Offline kaz1983

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2019, 08:55:28 AM »
Not everyone is aware, knows how, or bothers with doing that though. Itís def one of the arguments against going vegan imo.
Well all it takes is 30 minutes on the internet and you'll be well aware these days.. I mean maybe 10 years ago but now it's not that hard.

Offline Craig 🤔

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2019, 08:55:42 AM »
This is what I thought too.... I told my friend who was vegan two years ago that he's crazy lol .... you can get all your nutrients and no you don't have to eat meat and dairy, just cause it's there..

B12 isnít present in 99% if plant based foods and is an essential nutrient. Itís found in most meat, fish and dairy.

Offline kaz1983

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2019, 08:58:24 AM »
B12 isn’t present in 99% if plant based foods and is an essential nutrient. It’s found in most meat, fish and dairy.

B12 is in pretty much in all fortified soy products, yeah at first you have to adjust to making sure you get enough B12 but it's not that hard.. it's getting added to more products
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 09:01:11 AM by kaz1983 »

Offline rob1966

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2019, 08:58:35 AM »
Well all it takes is 30 minutes on the internet and you'll be well aware these days.. I mean maybe 10 years ago but now it's not that hard.

Can you recommend a good site? I'm not looking to go vegetarian or Vegan, but I have reduced my meat intake, however, I want to ensure I eat the right foods so I don't have to resort to supplements.

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2019, 09:02:10 AM »
What has RAWK become? This is like the 2nd vegan thread in the last few weeks  ;D

Offline kaz1983

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2019, 09:03:17 AM »
Can you recommend a good site? I'm not looking to go vegetarian or Vegan, but I have reduced my meat intake, however, I want to ensure I eat the right foods so I don't have to resort to supplements.
I will ask my wife when she gets home.. she's the chef in the house lol .. but yeah I'll ask her

Offline kaz1983

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2019, 09:12:56 AM »
Meat, chicken, fish, seafood, milk, cheese and eggs are all just very, very tasty.

This is what I get told on a regular basis.

They have done brain scans of drug addicts and brain scans of people that have just consumed meat.. it seems areas of the brain are effectived very similar for both

Offline kesey

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2019, 09:13:31 AM »
Breatharianism is where it's at.

All we need is Prana .
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- The Upanishads.

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Offline Skidder.

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2019, 09:24:39 AM »
Jesus was a non-vegan.
Likes his new name.

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2019, 09:33:48 AM »
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/jun/21/ethical-living-soya

Because soya production is often just a different way of destroying the planet.
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Offline kaz1983

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2019, 09:37:43 AM »
Jesus was a non-vegan.
Not sure if your joking but yeah Jesus is not very vegan... lol .. he's definitely not a meat eater on a regular basis tho...  that said the garden of Eden was pretty much vegan.. it was only till after the floods that he gave permission to eat meat, it make sense because you referenced eating fish on many occasions....... it doesn't take it idiot to realise that there's a reason why Jesus referenced eating fish straight after a great flood.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 09:41:06 AM by kaz1983 »

Offline kesey

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2019, 09:39:26 AM »
Jesus was a non-vegan.

He was also initiated into Kriya Yoga by Babaji   
He who sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself loses all fear.

- The Upanishads.

He who expects freedom of speech should allow others to speak .  Me - Now.

He who sees twats really is a twat themselves - Me - Now .

Offline kaz1983

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2019, 09:46:53 AM »
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/jun/21/ethical-living-soya

Because soya production is often just a different way of destroying the planet.
You do realise 80% soy beans go to feeding the pigs, cows and whatever other animals you eat.... ..pushing 90% the article says ... it's a spectacular waste of resources........ and no it's not a different way, just the same old "mmmm bacon" path...

Ohh 16 kgs of grain it takes, to produce one kilo of pork/beef meat
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 10:07:19 AM by kaz1983 »

Offline kaz1983

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2019, 09:54:05 AM »
https://www.unenvironment.org/news-and-stories/story/tackling-worlds-most-urgent-problem-meat

It's just an article.. nothing that I didn't already believe lol
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 10:00:56 AM by kaz1983 »

Offline Craig 🤔

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2019, 10:02:12 AM »
Was this thread really a Ďgive me your argument why not to be vegan and Iíll tell you why youíre wrongí?

Offline kaz1983

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2019, 10:09:33 AM »
Some interesting examples of how there's good and bad in everything.... I know that it's an arbitrary line and that by taking meat and dairy out of my diet it's not going to make a difference

I was generally interested to know other people's point of view

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2019, 10:11:01 AM »
Jesus was a non-vegan.

Hitler wasn't.


Offline kaz1983

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2019, 10:15:22 AM »
Hitler wasn't.


You're right Hitler was a vegetarian.. but it just goes to show that sometimes a bad person can do something good.... and following on from that, a good person can also do something bad, do I believe eating meat = bad .. no, not for me tho
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 10:22:15 AM by kaz1983 »

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2019, 10:50:26 AM »
You can't own or wear a pair of these.

And all the world is football shaped, It's just for me to kick in space. And I can see, hear, smell, touch, taste.

Offline Craig 🤔

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2019, 10:51:50 AM »
One good thing about being vegan is at least you donít have to think about other topics to talk about.

Offline gamble

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2019, 10:56:36 AM »
Food industry is dirty as hell. Fraudulent, misleading and dishonest. That applies to fruit and veg too.

Do you grow your own food by any chance? Farming is fraught with sustainability issues.

Offline kesey

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2019, 10:59:28 AM »
You're right Hitler was a vegetarian.. but it just goes to show that sometimes a bad person can do something good.... and following on from that, a good person can also do something bad, do I believe eating meat = bad .. no, not for me tho

There's no Saint without a past and no sinner without a future .

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He who sees himself in all beings and all beings in himself loses all fear.

- The Upanishads.

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Offline kaz1983

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2019, 11:07:13 AM »
One good thing about being vegan is at least you donít have to think about other topics to talk about.
I've got to take my B12 shot everyday... don't have the time to talk about other topics

Offline kaz1983

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2019, 11:10:43 AM »
Food industry is dirty as hell. Fraudulent, misleading and dishonest. That applies to fruit and veg too.

Do you grow your own food by any chance? Farming is fraught with sustainability issues.
Well we agree that the food industry is dirty as hell.... most of the big name meat suppliers invested in plant based meat alternatives... ohhhhhhh I don't grow my own vegetables but do grow a lot of fruit

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cookinglight.com/news/tyson-vegan-protein-meat

In terms of sustainability... I agree but I suppose it's a case of some being a lot more sustainable than others...
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 11:40:16 AM by kaz1983 »

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2019, 11:38:38 AM »
You're right Hitler was a vegetarian.. but it just goes to show that sometimes a bad person can do something good.... and following on from that, a good person can also do something bad, do I believe eating meat = bad .. no, not for me tho

It was just a joke mate. I completely get the argument against slaughtering animals  I dont see the issue with dairy products however.

The amimal thing is a minefield.  You can slaughter a chicken but not a deer or a lion?

Offline kaz1983

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2019, 11:55:41 AM »
It was just a joke mate. I completely get the argument against slaughtering animals  I dont see the issue with dairy products however.

Sorry about that I get that Hitler comment often lol but yes it's a minefield.. feels like us vs them situation being vegan.. I know it's not, but just feels that way..... at the end of the day just relize what your eating, where it came from etc etc ..... if you still eat meat go ahead that's cool but yeh it's a tricky one.... that said we gotta eat

Quote
The amimal thing is a minefield.  You can slaughter a chicken but not a deer or a lion?
Not just that... why do we find it perfectly normal to eat a pig but the thought of eating a dog, well it's not appetizing.... why is India the second largest producer of beef but it used to be illegal to kill a cow in India haha ...
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 11:57:51 AM by kaz1983 »

Offline rob1966

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2019, 12:02:41 PM »
Serious question. If veganism started being extremely popular and this led to the slaughter of millions of farm animals due to lack of demand for the meat and eggs and the deaths of thousands more due to the taking of their habitats to grow food, would you stop being a vegan?

Offline Craig 🤔

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Re: Arguments against being vegan
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2019, 12:09:08 PM »
Realise what we're eating? That's said as if the human body wasn't designed to eat meat. We've been eating meat since humans evolved, and it's perfectly normal to have the desire and willing to eat meat. The difference is now it's farmed rather than going out to hunt it, much like fruit and veg are farmed rather than you having to go and find/collect them in the wild.

Of course everyone should be aware of the welfare of the animals, there is absolutely no need for some of the farming practices which have been seen in the past, but hopefully most people are well aware of this now and more inclined to source higher welfare meats.