Author Topic: Chasing the Title  (Read 966928 times)

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8720 on: March 22, 2019, 09:28:11 AM »
From what's required to win trophies based on my years of observing both European & National League tournaments,

To win European Leagues (CL or EL - EL only in the later stages), best 'Tactics' is required from manager. This is why a number of games at the European Top level are tactical. Not a lot between the sides, so fine pieces of information & exploiting whatever little weaknesses of the opposition is mostly important to keep going through.

Whereas to win National leagues, best pure 'Management' techniques are required from manager. You need to keep your players motivated and hungry throughout the season even from small games in random hours like Friday evening, early Saturday afternoon or Monday nights with not so good atmosphere. Also, need to balance games, rotate players & keep important players fit for tenure of the season etc. Tactics are needed, but teams competing for the league are already better than most of the sides in the league, so they have better quality disparity right away. The most important thing is man management and paying attention to problem points (points mentioned by doctor, or assistant in training, fitness etc.) to handle different situations and endurance. 

If any of this makes sense that is  ;D

Offline nico 8

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8721 on: March 22, 2019, 09:31:28 AM »
From what's required to win trophies based on my years of observing both European & National League tournaments,

To win European Leagues (CL or EL - EL only in the later stages), best 'Tactics' is required from manager. This is why a number of games at the European Top level are tactical. Not a lot between the sides, so fine pieces of information & exploiting whatever little weaknesses of the opposition is mostly important to keep going through.

Whereas to win National leagues, best pure 'Management' techniques are required from manager. You need to keep your players motivated and hungry throughout the season even from small games in random hours like Friday evening, early Saturday afternoon or Monday nights with not so good atmosphere. Also, need to balance games, rotate players & keep important players fit for tenure of the season etc. Tactics are needed, but teams competing for the league are already better than most of the sides in the league, so they have better quality disparity right away. The most important thing is man management and paying attention to problem points (points mentioned by doctor, or assistant in training, fitness etc.) to handle different situations and endurance. 

If any of this makes sense that is  ;D

Makes sense and would agree with most of it.

Offline idontknow

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8722 on: March 22, 2019, 01:43:18 PM »
It maybe too early to start singing, I get that, but is it ok if I hum a bit?
Mm mma m m league?..
Here we go mm mming cups in Mmm?
Please?
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Offline Mr_Shane

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8723 on: March 22, 2019, 01:46:12 PM »
Ah International breaks. ...  ;D

Offline Sharado

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8724 on: March 22, 2019, 01:50:23 PM »
Ah International breaks. ...  ;D

I'm actually really enjoying this one. So much more productive at work etc.
No heavy-metal football. Uninspiring team selections. Playing like a team closer to relegation worries

Offline arab88

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8725 on: March 22, 2019, 02:25:52 PM »
Ah International breaks. ...  ;D

I hate 'em! :no

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8726 on: March 22, 2019, 04:52:58 PM »
I'm actually really enjoying this one. So much more productive at work etc.

Had to take the whole week off sick and I've been sitting with nothing to do when not sleeping. Bad time to miss football I suppose!

Offline Floydy

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8727 on: March 22, 2019, 09:19:44 PM »
Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and I'm not just talking about not having a game this weekend.  So close.
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8728 on: March 22, 2019, 09:50:20 PM »
But surely there is truth in the statement that -"some managers are more tactically astute than others"? Perhaps the word "naive" in this context as used by vk2rules is inappropriate as managers at that level with those achievements are simply not naive but not as astute as others. A fairer statement may be that Ferguson is not as tactically astute as his continental counterparts as he hasn't needed to be. Ferguson had other managerial traits that made him into the greatest manager in the PL era. He however did underachieve in Europe given the teams he created.
On Del Bosque- he too should have faired better given the team assembled.

Ferguson is an arrogant, selfcentered bastard who is obsessed with Liverpool.

He was a great manager though, and to call him tactically naive is a bit much.

Don't know if anyone agrees, but I think it meant more to him to surpass LFCs title haul in England, than any triumphs in the continent.

Offline Floydy

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8729 on: March 22, 2019, 10:20:32 PM »
Ferguson is an arrogant, selfcentered bastard who is obsessed with Liverpool.

He was a great manager though, and to call him tactically naive is a bit much.

Don't know if anyone agrees, but I think it meant more to him to surpass LFCs title haul in England, than any triumphs in the continent.
nothing wrong with having a marker or benchmark in any sport. He used it as a siege mentality and he said what he said because he probaby expected us to be the team that would fight it out with them , sadly we didnt. It was a compliment really
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Offline Sons of pioneerS

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8730 on: March 22, 2019, 10:43:16 PM »
Ferguson is an arrogant, selfcentered bastard who is obsessed with Liverpool.

He was a great manager though, and to call him tactically naive is a bit much.

Don't know if anyone agrees, but I think it meant more to him to surpass LFCs title haul in England, than any triumphs in the continent.

That wouldn't surprise me. He had a major bee in his bonnet with us after we destroyed his Aberdeen side in the European Cup in 1980.

Beat them home and away, 5-0 on agg.

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Offline latortuga

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8731 on: March 22, 2019, 11:44:54 PM »
Hopefully Ferguson is alive long enough to see us reclaim top position, having won the most league titles. 

And so continues the circle of life...

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8732 on: March 23, 2019, 02:29:28 AM »
That wouldn't surprise me. He had a major bee in his bonnet with us after we destroyed his Aberdeen side in the European Cup in 1980.

Beat them home and away, 5-0 on agg.

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Their fans have too. I've read in some of ' those ' books that Aberdeen started the ' terrace or casual ' scene and when we played them in 1980 we copied them.

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Online dimwit

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8733 on: March 23, 2019, 05:38:09 AM »
I'm sorry but I can't get it out of my head that that's Eric Idle doing the comms on that  :o


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Offline vicar

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8734 on: March 23, 2019, 09:51:34 AM »
That wouldn't surprise me. He had a major bee in his bonnet with us after we destroyed his Aberdeen side in the European Cup in 1980.

Beat them home and away, 5-0 on agg.

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That flick from Dalglish for Neil's goal is fantastic.
You also forget how good a player Hansen was and how attacking, he gets so far forward on every attack!

Offline SteveZissou

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8735 on: March 23, 2019, 11:14:47 AM »
Interesting comment from Steve Nicol the other day saying the 1989 Liverpool team was totally spent, playing three games in six days ending with the famous loss to Arsenal.
He said they were running on empty and you could see that, so it's interesting when people think this is only a modern problem. Of course it's even worse now with the UEFA fixtures.
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Offline SteveZissou

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8736 on: March 23, 2019, 11:21:35 AM »
I haven't read anywhere else, but the problem we could have is that we are not playing City when they are tired in this climax. If we did then I believe we would've killed them off with our extra energy. You keep hearing we are going to be livelier but we are not playing them. There's no use us being livelier when City's opposition is half dead.

We say they are tired and we count Spurs to help us. But they're extremely tired too. What about Manutd? They got the UCL and played in the FA Cup up to the qf so they'd be tired too. So when will they play a team who's not only energetic to hunt them down but also plays fearless football to attack their weaknesses? Otherwise it'd be just like their recent games with tired City v tired opposition or opposition resting their players and not willing to risk stretching themselves? Our hope may lie with the relegation candidates.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 11:29:24 AM by SteveZissou »
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Offline Perham

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8737 on: March 23, 2019, 01:29:40 PM »
Interesting comment from Steve Nicol the other day saying the 1989 Liverpool team was totally spent, playing three games in six days ending with the famous loss to Arsenal.
He said they were running on empty and you could see that, so it's interesting when people think this is only a modern problem. Of course it's even worse now with the UEFA fixtures.
I agree that fixture congestion's always been a problem but that particular time was unique circumstances as we'd had games cancelled for a few weeks following Hillsborough which led to playing the later games really close together. In normal circumstances, that wouldn't have happened.
if I came home to allison in bed with my wife I'd ask him to phone Virgil to see if he wanted to pop round too.

Offline Floydy

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8738 on: March 23, 2019, 02:36:24 PM »
Interesting comment from Steve Nicol the other day saying the 1989 Liverpool team was totally spent, playing three games in six days ending with the famous loss to Arsenal.
He said they were running on empty and you could see that, so it's interesting when people think this is only a modern problem. Of course it's even worse now with the UEFA fixtures.
remember that run in  so vividly, the games that stick out for me ,I remember we drew a Goodison 0-0 , I remember thumping West Ham 5-0 was it?  Then of course that Friday night fixture against Arsenal
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8739 on: March 23, 2019, 02:52:42 PM »
remember that run in  so vividly, the games that stick out for me ,I remember we drew a Goodison 0-0 , I remember thumping West Ham 5-0 was it?  Then of course that Friday night fixture against Arsenal

The 0-0 at Everton was the first competitive game back I think. And West Ham was 5-1, think they scored late which reduced Arsenal’s required target by one.

Offline slotmachine

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8740 on: March 23, 2019, 03:13:53 PM »
We beat Everton in the cup final after extra time on the saturday when the temperature pitchside was over 100 degrees with the obvious emotions that occasion brought. We then beat West Ham in our game in hand on the tuesday night 5-1 and it was once again a really warm night and i remember the humidity was crazy and then the title decider against Arsenal was on the friday night and it was a game too far. We were fucked and we struggled mentally in how to approach the game because we could afford to draw or lose the game by 1 goal and still win the league. Fair play to Arsenal who were a great side but the fixture list really caught up with us.

Offline latortuga

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8741 on: March 23, 2019, 03:15:29 PM »
I haven't read anywhere else, but the problem we could have is that we are not playing City when they are tired in this climax. If we did then I believe we would've killed them off with our extra energy. You keep hearing we are going to be livelier but we are not playing them. There's no use us being livelier when City's opposition is half dead.

We say they are tired and we count Spurs to help us. But they're extremely tired too. What about Manutd? They got the UCL and played in the FA Cup up to the qf so they'd be tired too. So when will they play a team who's not only energetic to hunt them down but also plays fearless football to attack their weaknesses? Otherwise it'd be just like their recent games with tired City v tired opposition or opposition resting their players and not willing to risk stretching themselves? Our hope may lie with the relegation candidates.

You're right, of course all players are tired near the end of the season.  Where the difference will lie is in the recovery between games where shorter periods of time compound the effect of a long season.  Most of the teams they'll be playing in the league will have 5-6 days recovery vs. 2-4 for City every game if they continue to progress in the UCL. 

I have no doubt that City will continue to dominate the ball against every opponent, we shouldn't expect this to change.  It will come down to whether their players can find energy to make sprints and work hard to create chances.  I think we've already seen signs of a less potent City against Bournemouth and Watford after a recent pile up of fixtures. 

I agree though on the Tottenham game which I'll be expecting Tottenham to do nothing for us in.  The turn around from 2nd leg in the UCL to league game is ~24hrs which is brutal.



 

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8742 on: March 23, 2019, 03:38:43 PM »
That flick from Dalglish for Neil's goal is fantastic.
You also forget how good a player Hansen was and how attacking, he gets so far forward on every attack!
I remember it well. The defender behind him tries to be clever by moving forward to cut out the obvious pass. Kenny spots it with his arse eyes, so let's the ball slightly roll past him and back heels it behind the forward moving defender, and it's also hit a bit slower so Neal has time to reach it. It was a typically hilarious Kennyism, where someone actually thought they were one step ahead of him - much tittering in the crowd.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 03:40:23 PM by Dr. Beaker »
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Offline Floydy

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8743 on: March 23, 2019, 07:17:41 PM »
The 0-0 at Everton was the first competitive game back I think. And West Ham was 5-1, think they scored late which reduced Arsenal’s required target by one.
it was and what a place to play it.  Watched it on YouTube the other night. It was hard to get excited about the game.  The chants of Merseyside Merseyside before the minutes silence have me goosebumps
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Offline BobPaisley3

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8744 on: March 23, 2019, 07:23:35 PM »
it was and what a place to play it.  Watched it on YouTube the other night. It was hard to get excited about the game.  The chants of Merseyside Merseyside before the minutes silence have me goosebumps
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Offline Soucolorado

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8745 on: March 24, 2019, 12:49:20 PM »
We’ve had so many “important games of the season” but it’s now all about  the Spurs game. If we get a win then the possibility of winning all our remaining games becomes very real.

A win against Spurs and City dropping points before the United game will put us in the driving seat, with a lighter fixture list a distinct advantage.

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8746 on: March 24, 2019, 02:21:44 PM »
Are we there yet...
It looks to me as if we have signed another 'average' player. I'll hold back my complete opinion until I see the lad play

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8747 on: March 24, 2019, 03:26:37 PM »
A dead animal is a dead animal. And a piece of meat is a piece of meat.

Offline deFacto

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8748 on: March 24, 2019, 04:47:06 PM »
Actually for the first time in forever, the international break has been great, give me head a rest from all the permutations and expectations :D

Offline a treeless whopper

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8749 on: March 24, 2019, 05:28:09 PM »
Actually for the first time in forever, the international break has been great, give me head a rest from all the permutations and expectations :D

Yep. That Fulham game, for the 7 or 8 minutes until we scored, I think I contemplated the meaning of life, whilst sweating loads and having panic attacks.

Offline deFacto

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8750 on: March 24, 2019, 05:55:03 PM »
Yep. That Fulham game, for the 7 or 8 minutes until we scored, I think I contemplated the meaning of life, whilst sweating loads and having panic attacks.

Same here, I've aged loads this season  ;D

Offline PaulF

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8751 on: March 24, 2019, 10:14:18 PM »
Don't think I can cope if it goes to the final game of the season.
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Offline Floydy

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8752 on: March 24, 2019, 10:35:11 PM »
Fancy us to really do Spurs on Sunday. We need that early / first goal against them see how they react. If we score first we need to keep pushing them they are always a dodgy penalty/scrawny goal away from spoiling the party
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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8753 on: March 25, 2019, 08:21:23 AM »
We’ve had so many “important games of the season” but it’s now all about  the Spurs game. If we get a win then the possibility of winning all our remaining games becomes very real.

A win against Spurs and City dropping points before the United game will put us in the driving seat, with a lighter fixture list a distinct advantage.
Weirdly, I actually prefer to be chasing, with a 1 point deficit, at this stage.
City's under tremendous pressure, I'm sure of it- cause they know that one slip and the title's over. Similarily for us, but we have something to gain, which propels us.

The difference is something like City sometimes going into games with the mindset/fear of "not losing", but we going into games with the mindset of wanting "to win". That's a powerful difference in approach as we all well know.

An example would be how the Spurs fixture is going to be approach by the both of us, I would imagine. We will go in there intent on winning, while City will go in there wanting not to lose. You start out with doubt- or at least teetering on the edge of doubt.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 08:34:50 AM by the_red_pill »
Let's drink to him once more. He was a good Stalker.
In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8754 on: March 25, 2019, 09:17:00 AM »
I don't think we'll win every game, but I don't think City will either. I do think they'll drop points in more than 1 game though, and that'll be enough for us to win the league against Wolves.
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Offline cowtownred

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8755 on: March 25, 2019, 09:25:18 AM »
Biggest 3 weeks right ahead now.  Spurs/Southampton/Chelsea,  with the 2 Porto games thrown in.  If we can win the three league games (thankfully 2 are at home), and win over 2 legs v Porto.....   

Offline deano2727

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8756 on: March 25, 2019, 10:38:46 AM »
Biggest 3 weeks right ahead now.  Spurs/Southampton/Chelsea,  with the 2 Porto games thrown in.  If we can win the three league games (thankfully 2 are at home), and win over 2 legs v Porto.....

I don't see us winning all three. Those are 3 tricky games. I think we will at least draw one. It would be a massive setback,City aren't dropping any points in the same time period. We would just have to keep our heads and get back to winning. We then need City to drop points in 2 games, which I'm not sure will happen, especially if its within touching distance, which it would be.

On the other hand, win those 3, we will win the league. City will drop points in one game i'd imagine, somewhere in among the congestion in April and games against United and Spurs. I think we would have what it takes to win the remaining 4 games if we get past the next 3. We might not even need to. If City drop points and we go ahead, I can see them dropping more points - especially if they are still in the CL.

We have played within ourselves a lot of the time this season I feel (strange thing to say when top and on course for best season ever, I know). Hopefully now these extra weeks off and warm weather training camps will pay off. We need go up a gear now if we want to win the league.

Offline campioni

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8757 on: March 25, 2019, 10:56:45 AM »
I don't see us winning all three. Those are 3 tricky games. I think we will at least draw one. It would be a massive setback,City aren't dropping any points in the same time period. We would just have to keep our heads and get back to winning. We then need City to drop points in 2 games, which I'm not sure will happen, especially if its within touching distance, which it would be.

On the other hand, win those 3, we will win the league. City will drop points in one game i'd imagine, somewhere in among the congestion in April and games against United and Spurs. I think we would have what it takes to win the remaining 4 games if we get past the next 3. We might not even need to. If City drop points and we go ahead, I can see them dropping more points - especially if they are still in the CL.

We have played within ourselves a lot of the time this season I feel (strange thing to say when top and on course for best season ever, I know). Hopefully now these extra weeks off and warm weather training camps will pay off. We need go up a gear now if we want to win the league.

I agree with this. The timing of dropped points could be crucial. If we drop points before City the pressure will ease off them as they know they can afford to lose a game and still be top. But on the other hand if we can win our next two the pressure on City will be ramped up with their tough run of games in April, knowing one mistake and the ball is back in our court.

The Spurs game is massive and possibly our toughest test left. 3 points would put us in a great position but would also benefit us as it drags Spurs even further into the race for 4th, meaning they will need to go to the Etihad in a few weeks and try to get something.

Offline Gerry83

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8758 on: March 25, 2019, 11:33:38 AM »
The Spurs game is a massive worry for me with it being the first game back after the Intl break. Yet its the same for Spurs but i feel this is a game where the crowd need to really turn the place into a hostile fortress as i think this game will be the difference between a strong confident finish in both competitions or the heads dropping a little after such a monumnetal effort all season!

Offline deano2727

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Re: Chasing the Title
« Reply #8759 on: March 25, 2019, 11:58:33 AM »
The Spurs game is a massive worry for me with it being the first game back after the Intl break. Yet its the same for Spurs but i feel this is a game where the crowd need to really turn the place into a hostile fortress as i think this game will be the difference between a strong confident finish in both competitions or the heads dropping a little after such a monumnetal effort all season!

Until City drop points in 2 games in a row and we win our games, its going to be this way for the rest of the season. The Southampton game after the Spurs game will be our most important, then Chelsea, then the next. Thats how it is in title challenges. Especially ones this close.

Spurs are the strongest team we have left to play, but for some reason Chelsea worry me more. We should beat both at home though since we need to. Southampton away is just as much a worry for me. Seem to have improved of recent, to my memory. Get 9 out of 9 from those 3, I'd make us favourites. Massive, massive ask though.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 12:00:50 PM by deano2727 »