Author Topic: Loan Watch 2018-2019  (Read 123134 times)

Offline an fear dearg

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1240 on: April 25, 2019, 12:09:39 PM »
The reality is that this summer is the peak time to sell Wilson and the likes of Grujic as they both have had very good seasons.  We have been excellent at negotiating deals so move them on for good money,  I'd say we'd get in excess of £40m for both of them combined.  If we can have good buy back or sell on clauses inserted then we are in a no lose situation.  The money accrued for both of them,  along with the likes of Mignolet, Clyne among others would go a long way to buying stronger squad options.  Not every young player makes it and the reality is that as a business we develop young lads to improve them and their value as much as we develop them to play for us. 

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1241 on: April 25, 2019, 12:32:21 PM »
I have seen Wilson about 16 times this season. I cover Derby at times for a media role.

He has an excellent left foot,hard working & can play multiple positions.

But wouldn't be totally against him being a squad player as he could pop up with a few goals.

I know you go on to say he's not good enough for Liverpool, but this sounds ok to me. I like the sound of his ability to play in multiple positions, which I didn't know much about.  I also like the idea of one of our 'squad players' actually popping up and scoring a few goals. I like it a lot.
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Offline redgriffin73

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1242 on: April 25, 2019, 12:43:12 PM »
He'd be a squad player here, behind Fab, Gini, Henderson, Keita and Milner, unless there is a couple of outs in midfield. I wonder if that is what he'll want after this season. He is not only a regular starter at Hertha, he is one of the first names on the teamsheet, he'll have got a taste for that no doubt, and who can blame him!

Dont see a team paying as much as those reports are saying today though, but you would understand that the club will put a high fee on him now, they don't need to let him go on the cheap. But I reckon if the club get a decent offer, they'd sell.

Pretty sure I read something from him recently where he said he'd like to stay at Hertha for another season.
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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1243 on: April 25, 2019, 01:12:46 PM »
Yep.

What's wrong with being optimistic about our own youngsters. These are free punts almost; interesting, young and British without an extortionate fee to be payed. It's why you have academies.
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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1244 on: April 25, 2019, 01:45:03 PM »
I know you go on to say he's not good enough for Liverpool, but this sounds ok to me. I like the sound of his ability to play in multiple positions, which I didn't know much about.  I also like the idea of one of our 'squad players' actually popping up and scoring a few goals. I like it a lot.

Yes positives over negatives, Wilson scored the best goal I’ve seen at Old Trafford, then went onto win a penalty and get a player sent off against our rivals, a team where even at our best times we struggle to get wins against. This alongside his assist and goal against Southampton, winning penalty against Chelsea)all the doubters should have been silenced by that alone, not a player in our squad maybe even the league who can score a free kick like he did at Old Trafford, yet we wouldn’t take such player on a free?

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1245 on: April 25, 2019, 07:52:53 PM »
Yes positives over negatives, Wilson scored the best goal I’ve seen at Old Trafford, then went onto win a penalty and get a player sent off against our rivals, a team where even at our best times we struggle to get wins against. This alongside his assist and goal against Southampton, winning penalty against Chelsea)all the doubters should have been silenced by that alone, not a player in our squad maybe even the league who can score a free kick like he did at Old Trafford, yet we wouldn’t take such player on a free?

There probably is a tendency for Liverpool fans to overrate some of our youngsters.  We do it with our first team players too. It's perfectly natural.

But there also seems to be a masochistic tendency to exaggerate how poor the kids are too. I guess it's easy to appear 'worldy wise' by trashing someone who has yet to make an impact at the very top level. No one, as they say, was ever made to look foolish by predicting the worst. But it's bloody monotonous to hear it.

I'd have thought with Harry Wilson that, at the very least, we'd be toasting his success at Derby County this season. There have been 14 goals, some of them spectacular. That's not bad for someone who is not an out-an-out forward. Instead of which, it's..."I saw a couple of full games at Pride Park and Wilson had a tendency to disappear".

Apart from anything else, I always wonder at football fans a bit when they say "so-and-so disappeared".  It makes me think of Whelan or Lucas or Wijnaldum. They "disappeared" too apparently. A lot of it is simply that the observer isn't looking closely enough. In a sense it is they, as spectators, who have disappeared.

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Offline Gerswatch

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1246 on: April 25, 2019, 09:54:24 PM »
Rangers have always been & always will be my favourite Scottish Club,you ballsed up royally passing up on the King because he was a shortarse though,if you hadn't done that then you wouldn't find another Clubs forum with more love  ;D

When I started taking an interest in football as a boy Dalglish was one of my heroes. It was a couple of years before I found out he's played with 'them' before Liverpool, which was a bit of a shock. Still kept the poster of him up though.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1247 on: April 25, 2019, 11:22:57 PM »
What's wrong with being optimistic about our own youngsters. These are free punts almost; interesting, young and British without an extortionate fee to be payed. It's why you have academies.
Nothing wrong with being optimistic, but that's not the same thing as overhyping. Whatever they cost has nothing to do with whether they're good enough.

Offline Gerswatch

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1248 on: April 28, 2019, 06:41:35 PM »
Kent started for Rangers today after returning from suspension. Despite being a good team performance Kent wasn't at his usual standard and his passing in the final third let him down a couple of times. Hopefully he's back at it next week.

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1249 on: April 28, 2019, 09:07:22 PM »
There probably is a tendency for Liverpool fans to overrate some of our youngsters.  We do it with our first team players too. It's perfectly natural.

But there also seems to be a masochistic tendency to exaggerate how poor the kids are too. I guess it's easy to appear 'worldy wise' by trashing someone who has yet to make an impact at the very top level. No one, as they say, was ever made to look foolish by predicting the worst. But it's bloody monotonous to hear it.

I'd have thought with Harry Wilson that, at the very least, we'd be toasting his success at Derby County this season. There have been 14 goals, some of them spectacular. That's not bad for someone who is not an out-an-out forward. Instead of which, it's..."I saw a couple of full games at Pride Park and Wilson had a tendency to disappear".

Apart from anything else, I always wonder at football fans a bit when they say "so-and-so disappeared".  It makes me think of Whelan or Lucas or Wijnaldum. They "disappeared" too apparently. A lot of it is simply that the observer isn't looking closely enough. In a sense it is they, as spectators, who have disappeared.

Agree with most of this, except there have been 16, not 14 goals if you include cup competitions which is remarkable considering he played as a wide player or attacking midfielder and 9 games as part of the midfield 3.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1250 on: April 28, 2019, 09:41:45 PM »
Yes positives over negatives, Wilson scored the best goal I’ve seen at Old Trafford, then went onto win a penalty and get a player sent off against our rivals, a team where even at our best times we struggle to get wins against. This alongside his assist and goal against Southampton, winning penalty against Chelsea)all the doubters should have been silenced by that alone, not a player in our squad maybe even the league who can score a free kick like he did at Old Trafford, yet we wouldn’t take such player on a free?

The doubters (or people who are unsure if he’s good enough to play in this team right now) aren’t likely to be silenced until you know....he’s proven it.

Don’t really understand the ‘wouldn't take such a player on a free’ thing. He’s already our player, it’s for us to decide if we give him a chance or cash in whilst his stock is high. We’ve seen with Trent and Gomez that we’re very keen to give youngsters a chance and if they’re good enough they’ll carry on getting them. But the academy isn’t solely for finding players who will be in the first team in the future and hasn’t been for a long time. We pretty much covered Fabinho by selling Solanke and Ward, two players who had little to no impact by selling. I dare say the temptation will be the same again this summer with the likes of Wilson, Grujic and Kent.

There’s no real right or wrong answer. He’s had a good season. So has Grujic. So has Kent. So has Herbie Kane. So did Ward. We might give some or all of them a shot, or we might have already decided to cash in on them to supplement some proper top quality. Which I don’t think many could argue with considering our transfer record.

I believe the average spend will go up £5 ahead and that’s being very conservative. So that’s £185k. Then you have a new 25k who will spend £10 a head that’s £250k. This is without the massively enhanced hospitality areas.

Offline mrantarctica

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1251 on: April 28, 2019, 10:20:35 PM »
The doubters (or people who are unsure if he’s good enough to play in this team right now) aren’t likely to be silenced until you know....he’s proven it.

Don’t really understand the ‘wouldn't take such a player on a free’ thing. He’s already our player, it’s for us to decide if we give him a chance or cash in whilst his stock is high. We’ve seen with Trent and Gomez that we’re very keen to give youngsters a chance and if they’re good enough they’ll carry on getting them. But the academy isn’t solely for finding players who will be in the first team in the future and hasn’t been for a long time. We pretty much covered Fabinho by selling Solanke and Ward, two players who had little to no impact by selling. I dare say the temptation will be the same again this summer with the likes of Wilson, Grujic and Kent.

There’s no real right or wrong answer. He’s had a good season. So has Grujic. So has Kent. So has Herbie Kane. So did Ward. We might give some or all of them a shot, or we might have already decided to cash in on them to supplement some proper top quality. Which I don’t think many could argue with considering our transfer record.

I think it'll also depend a little bit on preseason. I'm pretty sure Klopp will have them back and training hard and then featuring in the preseason games and making an assessment of whether they have the worth ethic and the quality to supplement our already very good first team.

I suspect that Grujic's movement will depend on what happens to Milner (i.e. if Milner stays, I think Grujic goes on loan),  and Kent will probably earn a sale to Rangers, or perhaps a newly promoted team. Wilson, I'm really not sure. I think he'll want to give it a season to try to break into the team and perhaps move on if he doesn't make it. Not sure there's any point in loaning him any further - he's either going to have to try to break into the first team or simply move on to another team and get regular games.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1252 on: April 28, 2019, 10:23:27 PM »
I think it'll also depend a little bit on preseason. I'm pretty sure Klopp will have them back and training hard and then featuring in the preseason games and making an assessment of whether they have the worth ethic and the quality to supplement our already very good first team.

I suspect that Grujic's movement will depend on what happens to Milner (i.e. if Milner stays, I think Grujic goes on loan),  and Kent will probably earn a sale to Rangers, or perhaps a newly promoted team. Wilson, I'm really not sure. I think he'll want to give it a season to try to break into the team and perhaps move on if he doesn't make it. Not sure there's any point in loaning him any further - he's either going to have to try to break into the first team or simply move on to another team and get regular games.
If Madrid offer in the region of £30m we should buy him a bottle of factor 50 and Jurgen should say,’Son, you’ll be needing this’.
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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1253 on: April 28, 2019, 10:43:40 PM »
Pretty sure I read something from him recently where he said he'd like to stay at Hertha for another season.

yeah I think he has said that for sure! Hertha have some changes coming their way, their head coach Pal Dardai is leaving at the end of the season.
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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1254 on: May 1, 2019, 02:23:24 PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48123314

Quote
Two players each from leaders Celtic and second-top Rangers have been nominated for the PFA Scotland Premiership Player of the Year award.

Celtic winger James Forrest and midfielder Callum McGregor are joined by Rangers striker Alfredo Morelos and on-loan Liverpool winger Ryan Kent.

Kent is also among the nominations for the young player award.

He is up against Aberdeen's Lewis Ferguson and Motherwell pair David Turnbull and Jake Hastie.

More to follow.

Offline Gerswatch

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1255 on: May 3, 2019, 07:06:04 PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48123314

Got to admit, I'm surprised Tavernier wasn't in there ahead of Kent for the main award. His form has been great and he has a pretty incredible record. Definitely no arguments with Kent in the Young player category. Hopefully he wins it.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1256 on: May 3, 2019, 07:07:07 PM »
Ryan Kent up for player of the year?

The Scottish league is exceptionally weak now.
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Offline Clayton Bigsby

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1257 on: May 3, 2019, 07:12:42 PM »
For his position not sure what more else you can ask of Wilson. 16 goals in 40 games  for a top end championship side is brilliant.

Admittedly I'm using Excel and not my eyes but this guy knows where the net is and we need that in midfield.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1258 on: May 3, 2019, 07:20:45 PM »
Ryan Kent up for player of the year?

The Scottish league is exceptionally weak now.

He's had a really good season for his standards, but yeah, he wouldn't make the Championship player of the year with the same level of performances. Scottish League is indeed pretty weak now.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1259 on: May 3, 2019, 08:11:24 PM »
For his position not sure what more else you can ask of Wilson. 16 goals in 40 games  for a top end championship side is brilliant.

Admittedly I'm using Excel and not my eyes but this guy knows where the net is and we need that in midfield.

And he can take a free kick like Messi, anyone who doesn't think he can add something to this squad knows nowt about football, games are decided on moments, so even if their is reservations about him 'drifting in and out' of games, the fact he has a better left foot than anyone in our squad, and is the type of player who can decide games with incredible moments, is enough for him to warrant a place.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1260 on: May 3, 2019, 08:24:43 PM »
And he can take a free kick like Messi, anyone who doesn't think he can add something to this squad knows nowt about football, games are decided on moments, so even if their is reservations about him 'drifting in and out' of games, the fact he has a better left foot than anyone in our squad, and is the type of player who can decide games with incredible moments, is enough for him to warrant a place.
Better left foot than Salah?

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1261 on: May 3, 2019, 08:26:24 PM »
Will be interesting to see how he does if he does get a chance at a PL club next season
I believe the average spend will go up £5 ahead and that’s being very conservative. So that’s £185k. Then you have a new 25k who will spend £10 a head that’s £250k. This is without the massively enhanced hospitality areas.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1262 on: May 3, 2019, 10:27:01 PM »
And he can take a free kick like Messi, anyone who doesn't think he can add something to this squad knows nowt about football, games are decided on moments, so even if their is reservations about him 'drifting in and out' of games, the fact he has a better left foot than anyone in our squad, and is the type of player who can decide games with incredible moments, is enough for him to warrant a place.

So if Klopp doesn't bring him in to the squad next year he knows nowt about football?

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1263 on: May 4, 2019, 02:56:25 PM »
Ryan Kent up for player of the year?

The Scottish league is exceptionally weak now.

It is. Money is the problem, there's just none up here. Rangers and Celtic can still generate money from match day crowds but there is practcally no tv money etc. IIRC one Premiership match gets more tv income than a whole SPFL season.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1264 on: May 5, 2019, 01:05:55 PM »
Derby winning  1-0 very lucky not to be 1-2 down

Must win this to be in the play offs

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1265 on: May 5, 2019, 02:04:09 PM »
Derby winning  1-0 very lucky not to be 1-2 down

Must win this to be in the play offs

Harry Wilson with the Pen for Derby’s third. 3-1 Derby.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1266 on: May 5, 2019, 02:35:58 PM »
Harry Wilson with the Pen for Derby’s third. 3-1 Derby.

Great to see how calm he was taking it

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1267 on: May 5, 2019, 02:38:00 PM »
If Wilson does get sold it won’t be until the death of the window due to the late arrivals from summer tournaments

I for one think he stays and gets in more mstch day squads than not

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1268 on: May 5, 2019, 02:39:16 PM »
That 18 for the season in all comps? Pretty impressive that.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1269 on: May 5, 2019, 02:50:14 PM »
That 18 for the season in all comps? Pretty impressive that.

Think so yes

Why would we sell? He can’t do anymore than that. It would be a really negative indication to anyone going out on loan

Get him in the squad and give him a season

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1270 on: May 5, 2019, 03:15:58 PM »
Think so yes

Why would we sell? He can’t do anymore than that. It would be a really negative indication to anyone going out on loan

Get him in the squad and give him a season

If the manager has a proper look at him and doesn’t think he’s quite there? A loan is surely about getting regular football rather than it being a ticket to a guaranteed career at your parent club? There seem to be a lot of absolutes being made about someone who has played once for us. You’d hope people won’t be questioning the manager over making that sort of decision (if he does)
I believe the average spend will go up £5 ahead and that’s being very conservative. So that’s £185k. Then you have a new 25k who will spend £10 a head that’s £250k. This is without the massively enhanced hospitality areas.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1271 on: May 5, 2019, 03:37:42 PM »
If the manager has a proper look at him and doesn’t think he’s quite there? A loan is surely about getting regular football rather than it being a ticket to a guaranteed career at your parent club? There seem to be a lot of absolutes being made about someone who has played once for us. You’d hope people won’t be questioning the manager over making that sort of decision (if he does)

Absolutely not. If Klopp decides to sell then fine. Just can’t see that happening without him being with us a season

He’ll get a good run pre season so guess we’ll know more then

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1272 on: May 5, 2019, 06:29:47 PM »
Kent was off form again today. Subbed at half time.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1273 on: May 5, 2019, 09:11:35 PM »
If the manager has a proper look at him and doesn’t think he’s quite there? A loan is surely about getting regular football rather than it being a ticket to a guaranteed career at your parent club? There seem to be a lot of absolutes being made about someone who has played once for us. You’d hope people won’t be questioning the manager over making that sort of decision (if he does)

I'd say that's true to an extent. Origi had a miserable loan and for all money looked like he'd be off. He has stayed, worked hard and been rewarded with the occasional appearance and has come in with some important goals. I think it is more about whether the manager thinks there is room for the player there, and whether he thinks they are good enough. I'm sure Wilson will return from loan and they'll all have a discussion about what he can offer and what he needs to work on. I suspect we will get a top class front 3 player (e.g. Werner, Pepe, Brandt etc) keep Origi and have Wilson around too.

It may be that Wilson will want a move to a smaller club in the short term with a buy-back. For him the most important thing is to play as much as possible.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1274 on: May 5, 2019, 09:22:01 PM »
Ryan Kent has won the Young SPFL Player of the Season award.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1275 on: May 11, 2019, 04:02:58 PM »
Another goal for Marko Grujic.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1276 on: May 11, 2019, 11:50:03 PM »
Has there been any of our acedemy guys go out on loan, come back and become a regular in the first team?

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1277 on: May 12, 2019, 12:34:24 AM »
Has there been any of our acedemy guys go out on loan, come back and become a regular in the first team?

Kelly and Spearing? Dark days...

Academy players becoming regulars is such a rarity it's hard to draw many conclusions, but it does seem like going on loan is a bit of a death knell.

Out of all the young attackers we had a few years ago I thought Ojo and Wilson were the two most likely to make it. Wilson is doing well in the championship but it sounds like he's performing a bit like Shaqiri, in that he drifts in and out of games and occasionally comes up with a moment of magic. Given Shaqiri can't get a regular place in the squad would it make sense to also have Wilson in the squad next season? We've seen how some managers don't trust loan signings over their own players so it could be difficult to loan him out to a premier league team, so I'm wondering if it would be best to sell him now while his stock is high but with a buy-back clause, that gives him some time to settle at a squad and play regularly while giving us a chance to bring him back.

I think Grujic might come back next season too and back up Fabinho, now that Henderson has been playing higher up the pitch.

Online Tobelius

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1278 on: May 12, 2019, 05:39:43 AM »
I don't think we'll ever sign £200k/week star players from clubs to be our squad players like City did with Mahrez and even he is reportedly unhappy there now with his minutes,i think long term unhappy players are a problem for squad harmony.

Wilson has had enough loans and is 22,we need to make a decision about his future one way or another now imo.

I'd like it to be at Liverpool,he' scored goals everywhere he's been,goals are still pretty important in football and he's already at the club as well as Grujic who's also done reportedly well in Germany.

I know some think otherwise,want them sold and new signings in place of them and that's okay,we'll see very soon what Klopp decides.

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Re: Loan Watch 2018-2019
« Reply #1279 on: May 12, 2019, 07:56:24 AM »
Wilson was very average yesterday watched him but Derby are a horrible side I’m surprised he scored so many for them. Literally long ball merchants. Would sell to be honest.