Author Topic: Was LFC Ticket Pricing Forum Now an Al555 usual mantra topic  (Read 27976 times)

Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Was LFC Ticket Pricing Forum Now an Al555 usual mantra topic
« Reply #480 on: January 28, 2018, 10:34:02 AM »
Spend some time in running a football club PMG. Spend your business knowledge with a true passion of the club. I can recommend it

There are very few football club owners with a specialist knowledge in the development of property or more specifically, the development of stadia. As it happens FSG is one of them.

Unless you're going to put your hand up, there's nobody here with specialist knowledge of running a football club. What I do have is decades (ok, more than I want to say) of experience in development, design and construction and I have been prepared to share my knowledge with the fans and club (which the club were seemingly prepared to accept) particularly with regard to the stadium over the last decade and more since 2004 (when I returned from a spell overseas) at no cost to anyone but myself.

I imagine like most people here, I have supported the club all my life with everything that has happened in between, standing on the kop home and away as a lad. Like my dad before me and his dad. So if you're accusing me of lack of passion - as a fellow supporter, your attitude stinks.

Arsenal secured funding for the Emirates with a 14 year commercial loan that was replaced with long term bonds and a 15 year sponsorship deal with Emirates.

Everton are looking to fund their Stadium with a loan from the council over 20 years.

Wembley was funded with a series of 10 year debentures which were then converted to a loan.

So please explain why the Main Stand has to paid off ASAP.

In short (you don't read the long answers), it doesn't but it will cost you more if it isn't.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 11:13:57 AM by Peter McGurk »

Offline Al 555

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Re: Was LFC Ticket Pricing Forum Now an Al555 usual mantra topic
« Reply #481 on: January 28, 2018, 08:49:01 PM »
What can fsg do to please al? I think an interest free loan of a few hundred million, repayable upon sale? But then it'll tank the value as the club will have a huge debt, albeit to the owners? I genuinely don't understand what the owners need to do differently.

1) extend the Annie road as much as possible

2) work with and pressure other clubs to reduce ticket prices across the board so noone is at a competitive disadvantage by blinking first. Maybe start out baby steps like each club guarantees a few thousand local and a few thousand under 21 tickets per game at 30 quid or less?

3) ensure no money is taken out of the club. Profit comes upon sale.

Sounds good to me.

We already have a huge debt according to UEFA it stood at £141m according to their last report.

Yes to to the next three though.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Was LFC Ticket Pricing Forum Now an Al555 usual mantra topic
« Reply #482 on: January 28, 2018, 09:09:05 PM »
What can fsg do to please al? I think an interest free loan of a few hundred million, repayable upon sale? But then it'll tank the value as the club will have a huge debt, albeit to the owners? I genuinely don't understand what the owners need to do differently.

1) extend the Annie road as much as possible

2) work with and pressure other clubs to reduce ticket prices across the board so noone is at a competitive disadvantage by blinking first. Maybe start out baby steps like each club guarantees a few thousand local and a few thousand under 21 tickets per game at 30 quid or less?

3) ensure no money is taken out of the club. Profit comes upon sale.

Sounds good to me.

Indeed, it seems fair enough. But I do believe FSG's attitude to value is different from looking forward to a 'profit' on sale. I believe they will only sell when owning the club no longer works for them rather than actively seeking a sale at an increased price.

Once sold, the asset is gone (to state the obvious) and it no longer works for you. It no longer grows for you. At LFC they need football success to grow. That's where our common interest lies.

Offline Al 555

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Re: Was LFC Ticket Pricing Forum Now an Al555 usual mantra topic
« Reply #483 on: January 28, 2018, 09:42:14 PM »

In short (you don't read the long answers), it doesn't but it will cost you more if it isn't.



Except the principal owners attitude to debt is somewhat different to that.

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=265701.0

4.  How have NESV funded the £300m acquisition?
This simple answer is that we paid cash for LFC and left £37 million of stadium debt in place – even though there is no stadium in place – just a lot of expensive plans etc.  We view stadiums as separate from clubs.  They are separate entities.

We have some very successful partners – some of whom are big EPL fans – and we are well-financed internally.  But NESV has always had debt from the first day we purchased the Red Sox.  We have some partners who look at Internal Rate of Return and almost demand that we have debt as a consequence.  Debt increases IRR.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Was LFC Ticket Pricing Forum Now an Al555 usual mantra topic
« Reply #484 on: January 28, 2018, 10:09:51 PM »

We have some partners who look at Internal Rate of Return and almost demand that we have debt as a consequence.  Debt increases IRR.


Seems they do and yes it does. So?


Offline Al 555

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Re: Was LFC Ticket Pricing Forum Now an Al555 usual mantra topic
« Reply #485 on: January 28, 2018, 10:23:51 PM »
Seems they do and yes it does. So?



More from JWH.

I’ve never heard a Red Sox fan complain about the usage of credit.  Credit is probably more acceptable in American   culture than elsewhere.  But you have some people that are good at borrowing money and poor at investing beyond that.  There are others – and we feel we are in this camp – have lines of credit etc., that are good at running businesses prudently and invest in those businesses.


So it isn't about borrowing money it is what you do with it. So personally I think if FSG can borrow money at 1.24% and can't use that money within the business to generate a higher return than that then they shouldn't really be running the Club. Given the increase in revenue generated by the Main Stand worrying about paying off the loan in the shortest possible time surely can't be a priority.

You keep hinting that you can't see us doing any more redevelopment or indeed reducing ticket prices until the Main Stand is paid off. Given planning permission runs out next year do you think we may be looking to pay off the debt before then.

If so is that related to the fact that we have had two consecutive profits in the transfer market in 16/17 and 17/18 since we embarked on the main stand expansion.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Was LFC Ticket Pricing Forum Now an Al555 usual mantra topic
« Reply #486 on: January 28, 2018, 10:29:42 PM »
More from JWH.

I’ve never heard a Red Sox fan complain about the usage of credit.  Credit is probably more acceptable in American   culture than elsewhere.  But you have some people that are good at borrowing money and poor at investing beyond that.  There are others – and we feel we are in this camp – have lines of credit etc., that are good at running businesses prudently and invest in those businesses.


So it isn't about borrowing money it is what you do with it.

Well I'm glad we finally cleared that up. Well...nearly.

So personally I think if FSG can borrow money at 1.24% and can't use that money within the business to generate a higher return than that then they shouldn't really be running the Club. Given the increase in revenue generated by the Main Stand worrying about paying off the loan in the shortest possible time surely can't be a priority.


Err... they're paying off the loan quickly because they're doing rather better return than 1.24%. So?



You keep hinting that you can't see us doing any more redevelopment or indeed reducing ticket prices until the Main Stand is paid off. Given planning permission runs out next year do you think we may be looking to pay off the debt before then.

If so is that related to the fact that we have had two consecutive profits in the transfer market in 16/17 and 17/18 since we embarked on the main stand expansion.

More than hinting actually. And planning consent can be extended - in this case, more readily than most.

No connection whatsoever. The stadium is financially stand alone.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 10:35:50 PM by Peter McGurk »

Offline Al 555

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Re: Was LFC Ticket Pricing Forum Now an Al555 usual mantra topic
« Reply #487 on: January 28, 2018, 10:32:59 PM »

You keep hinting that you can't see us doing any more redevelopment or indeed reducing ticket prices until the Main Stand is paid off. Given planning permission runs out next year do you think we may be looking to pay off the debt before then.

If so is that related to the fact that we have had two consecutive profits in the transfer market in 16/17 and 17/18 since we embarked on the main stand expansion.

You forgot the question Peter.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Was LFC Ticket Pricing Forum Now an Al555 usual mantra topic
« Reply #488 on: January 28, 2018, 10:36:31 PM »
You forgot the question Peter.

No. But thanks for asking (them).
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 10:38:39 PM by Peter McGurk »

Offline Al 555

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Re: Was LFC Ticket Pricing Forum Now an Al555 usual mantra topic
« Reply #489 on: January 28, 2018, 10:48:14 PM »

More than hinting actually. And planning consent can be extended - in this case, more readily than most.

No connection whatsoever. The stadium is financially stand alone.

So you are stating that your opinion is that we won't expand until the Main Stand debt is paid off.

Err... they're paying off the loan quickly because they're doing rather better return than 1.24%. So?

The thing is your two answers don't really tally up. On one hand you are saying that the Club are doing rather better with the money than 1.24% which is pretty much what American businessmen do they borrow other peoples money and then make a better return than the interest rate. You know the whole debt is cheaper than equity line. You know what JWH said about debt offering a better internal rate of return. Whilst at the same time stating that we need to pay off the debt as quickly as possible.

As for the Stadium being financially standalone where have you got that from ?
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: Was LFC Ticket Pricing Forum Now an Al555 usual mantra topic
« Reply #490 on: February 9, 2018, 05:55:51 PM »


So maybe we should look at what they did at Fenway they inherited a Stadium that held 33,993 and have extended it to 37,731. What they have done is to massively increase the number of expensive seats and lounges. Out of 30 MLB teams they have the Ball park with the 26th biggest capacity.


I’ve seen you bring this up a few times in threads.  Quick question for you.  Have you ever been to Boston and seen Fenway in person?