Author Topic: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND  (Read 6373 times)

Offline KingKenny

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DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« on: January 13, 2016, 11:02:45 AM »
Liverpool football fans who have been blacklisted by construction companies for being members of a trade union or raising concerns about safety on building sites will be holding a protest against the use of Carillion to build the new stand at Anfield at the Liverpool v Man United this Sunday.
Blacklist Support Group are linking up with the Hillsborough Justice
Campaign and the Merseyside Construction Committee at the televised

Liverpool v Man Utd match.
Sunday 17th January 2016
11-12:30
Main Stand Anfield
Liverpool Football Club

Assemble: Albert Pub next to the Hillsborough Justice Campaign shop.

Invited speakers: Sheila Coleman (Hillsborough Justice Campaign), Ricky
Tomlinson, Dave Smith (blacklisted by Carillion), Joe Rollins (Orgreave
Justice Campaign) and Ian Prowse with the latter singing the iconic 'My
name is Dessie Warren' song.

Football is a working class game. Undercover police have conspired to
infiltrate both trade unions and the grieving Hillsborough families
fighting for justice. Two struggles, One fight for justice.

Carillion are currently defendants in the blacklisting High Court group
litigation set for full trail in May. The firm has already made an apology
to the court, admitting their active involvement in the notorious Economic
League and Consulting Association blacklisting scandal over a period of
decades.

Sunday's protest has been organised by Roy Bentham, himself a blacklisted carpenter from Liverpool and leading figure in both the Blacklist Support Group and Spirit of Shankly, the official Liverpool football fans union. Royston Bentham commented:

"Carillion are only sorry they got caught and not for what they were
systematically complicit in. No one has ever been disciplined or let alone
sacked for indulging in this insidious practice against construction
workers who are lifelong supporters of Liverpool Football Club.

We don't just want this rogue company kicked off this project, we want them kicked out of this proud working class city"

Please circulate widely to support the campaign

Offline mikeb58

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2016, 04:12:41 PM »
Ricky Tomlinson was live on Radio Merseyside before (Philips phone in) he said would not be attending this rally, or at least until he was clear what the issue is.

He stated as far as he was aware there was no blacklisting of labour from  Carillion.

Ricky made it plain he would fully support any rally in support of the building trade and would turn up with a placard on his own if necessary,but on this occasion he seemed at a loss to what it was about.

Also he said he was unsure why any Hillsborough organisation or indeed anyone from orgreave was involved in this demo (2 campaigns again he stressed he was totally in support of)

Ricky apologised to anybody who planned to meet him there, catch up for a drink/meal etc,especially people he hadn't seen for years but at this moment in time he would not be attending this demo himself.

All sounds a bit odd, anybody confirm or clarify what the current situation is.


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Offline sminp

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 08:31:28 PM »
No thanks, I'd rather wait for the courts decision before condemning Carillion. These people could have been blacklisted for valid reasons and be making shit up for all we know.

Also, they're invited speakers not confirmed. That's a deceptive publicity stunt.
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Offline Jay_Mc

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 10:31:14 PM »
No thanks, I'd rather wait for the courts decision before condemning Carillion. These people could have been blacklisted for valid reasons and be making shit up for all we know.

Also, they're invited speakers not confirmed. That's a deceptive publicity stunt.

You actually don't understand the blacklisting scandal if you think that they were blacklisted for valid reasons. They weren't and they weren't making shit up - they've got the evidence, it's in court and quite a few have admitted it!
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Offline Jake

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 11:23:08 PM »
Care to explain a little for those of us who don't have a clue what blacklisting is and why they'd do it etc? 

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2016, 09:43:24 PM »
You actually don't understand the blacklisting scandal if you think that they were blacklisted for valid reasons. They weren't and they weren't making shit up - they've got the evidence, it's in court and quite a few have admitted it!

I never said they had, I suggested it was a possibility. Two sides to every story and all that. And yes I've never heard of this before so naturally I have no idea, hence me sitting on the fence.
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Offline Swissgaz

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2016, 10:49:11 PM »
Care to explain a little for those of us who don't have a clue what blacklisting is and why they'd do it etc?

In this instance, it started in the 1970's and involved most major construction companies and special branch officers.  They created a list of people who were considered to pose a risk to their employers if employed within the construction industry, i.e. a blacklist.

This started out as the Economic League which later on became The Consulting Association.  When the Data Protection Act became law The Consulting Association failed to register as a Data Controller.

The ICO prosecuted Ian Kerr, who ran The Consulting Association, on behalf of the companies. He was fined £5,000 for a data protection offence and The Consulting Association ceased trading. The ICO also issued enforcement notices to 14 construction companies.

Eight construction companies have set up a compensation scheme, which has been rejected by the Unions.  The case is likely to be heard in the High Court in mid 2016.


Quote
Blacklist victims claim major court victory

A number of firms caught up in the scandal revised some of their pleadings during the ongoing hearing.

The Unite union said: “As well as securing an admission that the construction firms had breached data protection and were liable for the unlawful use of the private details of Unite members (and others), Unite crucially secured a ground-breaking admission that its members had been defamed.

“The additional admission of defamation means that Unite members are in line for larger pay outs to compensate for the damage inflicted on their lives by blacklisting.

“Importantly, it also stops the firms involved from hiding behind ‘non-disclosure’ meaning Unite members can continue to seek answers on how and why they were blacklisted.”

A statement from the contractors said: “Both documents contain a full and unreserved apology for our part in a vetting information system run in the construction industry first through the Economic League and subsequently through The Consulting Association; we recognise and regret the impact it had on employment opportunities for those workers affected and for any distress and anxiety it caused to them and their families.

“We are making these admissions now as we believe it is the right thing to do; we are keen to be as transparent as possible and to do what we can to simplify the High Court hearing scheduled for mid-2016.

“We hope that the clarity this brings will be welcomed by the affected workers.”

Unite director of legal services Howard Beckett added: “Crucially, Unite members can expect to not only receive personal apologies and offers of redress but also larger payouts because of the admission of defamation. The admission of defamation allows Unite to continue to seek answers from the firms involved.”

Brian Rye, Acting General Secretary of UCATT, said: “This is a highly significant step forward in the battle for blacklisting justice.

“Finally the companies have admitted their guilt and have begun to apologise. However we will continue fighting until justice is achieved for all our affected members.”

http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2015/10/08/blacklist-victims-claim-major-court-victory/
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 10:52:55 PM by Swissgaz »
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Offline Twelfth Man

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2016, 11:00:27 PM »
No thanks, I'd rather wait for the courts decision before condemning Carillion. These people could have been blacklisted for valid reasons and be making shit up for all we know.

Also, they're invited speakers not confirmed. That's a deceptive publicity stunt.
Erm, this sort of thing has been well publicised. Some instances have gone to court and resulted in victories for those blacklisted. But like many an establishment cover-up don't expect correct verdicts in the court, they tend to close ranks. As a Liverpool supporter you should know this more than other fans. 
The courts, the rich, the powerful or those in authority never lie. It has been dealt with 'by the courts' nothing to see here run along.

Offline Twelfth Man

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2016, 04:44:19 PM »

Orgreave Justice ‏@orgreavejustice  5h5 hours ago
The Orgreave Campaign will be in Liverpool tomorrow supporting the Hillsborough Campaigners. Come down and meet... http://fb.me/YrmFBn16
The courts, the rich, the powerful or those in authority never lie. It has been dealt with 'by the courts' nothing to see here run along.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2016, 05:20:46 PM »
Erm, this sort of thing has been well publicised. Some instances have gone to court and resulted in victories for those blacklisted. But like many an establishment cover-up don't expect correct verdicts in the court, they tend to close ranks. As a Liverpool supporter you should know this more than other fans. 

I know what the blacklisting scandal is about. I'm just a bit confused what the protest is actually for and why now? Is it to get Carillion taken off the job? If it is shouldn't the protests have been before they got the job not halfway through? And this:

Orgreave Justice ‏@orgreavejustice  5h5 hours ago
The Orgreave Campaign will be in Liverpool tomorrow supporting the Hillsborough Campaigners. Come down and meet... http://fb.me/YrmFBn16

...just adds to the confusion. Is it about construction blacklisting or Hillsborough?
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Offline Al 555

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2016, 05:42:08 PM »
I know what the blacklisting scandal is about. I'm just a bit confused what the protest is actually for and why now? Is it to get Carillion taken off the job? If it is shouldn't the protests have been before they got the job not halfway through? And this:

...just adds to the confusion. Is it about construction blacklisting or Hillsborough?

I share your unease Al.

I can't really see the need to link the construction blacklist and Hillsborough especially at this time.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline mikeb58

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2016, 08:16:55 PM »
I share your unease Al.

I can't really see the need to link the construction blacklist and Hillsborough especially at this time.

That's the point Ricky Tomlinson couldn't understand, what is the connection.Not sure if anybody from the HJC are actively taking part, though the organisers of the demo have invited Sheila Coleman to speak.

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Offline Al 555

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2016, 09:02:04 PM »
I have known Roy the lad organising this for about 25 years, he is a top fella heavily involved in SOS and largely responsible for the action taken over the Sunderland away. He loves an argument but I just don't get where he is going with this one.

At this time for me we shouldn't be linking anything with Hillsborough or the HJC.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline mikeb58

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2016, 09:38:26 PM »
I'm just hoping the organisers where not hoping to drum up support and publicity by saying there was a Hillsborough connection of sorts to there cause.

The organisers do say they are 'linking up with the HJC' for this rally on Sunday, but so far I don't think the HJC have commented one way or another.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 09:44:48 PM by mikeb58 »
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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2016, 09:56:08 PM »
Care to explain a little for those of us who don't have a clue what blacklisting is and why they'd do it etc? 
Employers would have a "black list" with names of people who were thought to cause "trouble" for the employer, typically union members standing up for worker's rights and safety on building sites. If you were on the list you wouldn't find work with any of the employers using the list, without actually having done anything. Obviously it's illegal to discriminate against someone because of trade union membership.




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Offline Twelfth Man

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2016, 10:10:30 PM »
I know what the blacklisting scandal is about. I'm just a bit confused what the protest is actually for and why now? Is it to get Carillion taken off the job? If it is shouldn't the protests have been before they got the job not halfway through? And this:

...just adds to the confusion. Is it about construction blacklisting or Hillsborough?
Going by the OP, Carillon has apologised. But no one has been disciplined or brought to justice. Getting them kicked off the job is a bit optimistic granted (not something I would want, looking forward to it being completed). As long as they highlight the issue and bring some publicity to the appalling practice, I see no problem. Conflating the Hillsborough Justice campaign feels quite logical to me, both involved high-level Establishment collusion and cover-ups. We know that our security services have worked with big construction companies in the past to compile these lists. And we all know about their role in the miners strike. Doubt anyone will give a shit anyway.
The courts, the rich, the powerful or those in authority never lie. It has been dealt with 'by the courts' nothing to see here run along.

Offline Al 555

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2016, 11:11:09 PM »
Going by the OP, Carillon has apologised. But no one has been disciplined or brought to justice. Getting them kicked off the job is a bit optimistic granted (not something I would want, looking forward to it being completed). As long as they highlight the issue and bring some publicity to the appalling practice, I see no problem. Conflating the Hillsborough Justice campaign feels quite logical to me, both involved high-level Establishment collusion and cover-ups. We know that our security services have worked with big construction companies in the past to compile these lists. And we all know about their role in the miners strike. Doubt anyone will give a shit anyway.

To be honest I don't think we should be connecting Hillsborough with anything. It stands alone in British criminal history as an example of the zero use of theories, supposition or even probabilities. It is based entirely on the presentation of documents of fact.

To link it with anything else for me dilutes the essence of the HIP Report and the subsequent inquests. For me nothing should get in the way of the documents speaking for themselves.

What happened with the blacklisting of whistle blowers and union activists is despicable but it shouldn't be connected to Hillsborough or Orgreave for that matter and should be fought on it's own merits.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline sminp

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2016, 11:57:49 PM »
Erm, this sort of thing has been well publicised. Some instances have gone to court and resulted in victories for those blacklisted. But like many an establishment cover-up don't expect correct verdicts in the court, they tend to close ranks. As a Liverpool supporter you should know this more than other fans. 

Can't say I've heard of it and I'm a Civil Engineer so if it had been well publicised you'd have thought I'd have heard of it. I don't like that you've alluded to it being similar to the Hillsborough cover up either to be honest, regardless of whether or not this is a cover up people lost their lives at Hillsborough and as far as I can see from what I've read here they didn't with this blacklisting.

As I said in my last post anyway, I'm neither for or against this as I just don't know enough about it although I agree with Alan X asking why now and why not when it was first announced Carillion got the job
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Offline Twelfth Man

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2016, 02:07:36 AM »
To be honest I don't think we should be connecting Hillsborough with anything. It stands alone in British criminal history as an example of the zero use of theories, supposition or even probabilities. It is based entirely on the presentation of documents of fact.

To link it with anything else for me dilutes the essence of the HIP Report and the subsequent inquests. For me nothing should get in the way of the documents speaking for themselves.

What happened with the blacklisting of whistle blowers and union activists is despicable but it shouldn't be connected to Hillsborough or Orgreave for that matter and should be fought on it's own merits.
Fair points. But if the HJC want to stand side by side them on this issue, it is up to them.
@sminp there has been one recent case where a union rep builder highlighted safety concerns on a site and was subsequently blacklisted for over a decade. The court case pointed to collusion between the security services and major contractors. In fact they were compiling dossiers for them. I followed the story at work because one of my client's takes it. Was a couple of years back. It was not an isolated incident. Loads of people have complained about it.
Anyway, it is not like FSG give a fuck about some small protest today.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 02:22:50 AM by Twelfth Man »
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: DEMO SUNDAY- MAIN STAND
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2016, 06:40:33 PM »
Fair points. But if the HJC want to stand side by side them on this issue, it is up to them.

I'm not sure it's that simple. HJC don't represent all of the families and most importantly the inquests are about to reach a critical phase. There is a general consensus among the public following the HIP report that the families had been treated appallingly and that justice needed to be done. I fail to see how the Hillsborough campaign is going to benefit from being linked to issues (Blacklisting and Orgreave) that, whatever we feel about them, are politically contentious.

The Attorney General issued a general advisory note before the start of the inquests.

Editors, publishers and social media users should note that the inquest proceedings are currently active for the purpose of the Contempt of Court Act 1981.

The Attorney General wishes to draw attention to the risk of publishing material, including online, which could create a substantial risk that the course of justice in the inquests may be seriously impeded or prejudiced, particularly as this inquest involves a jury.

This risk could arise by commentary which may prejudge issues that witnesses may give evidence about, or matters that the jury will need to consider in reaching their verdict. The inquests could also be prejudiced by publishing details of material (whatever its source) which may not form part of the evidence at the inquest.

The Attorney General’s Office will be monitoring the coverage of these proceedings.

Editors, publishers and social media users should take legal advice to ensure they are in a position to fully comply with the obligations they are subject to under the Contempt of Court Act. They are also reminded of the advisory note issued by Lord Justice Goldring on 11 February 2014.


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/attorney-general-issues-advisory-note-before-hillsborough-inquests-start

We have taken measures on here to ensure that nothing we do will in any way prejudice the fantastic efforts taken by many campaigners over the years and the brilliant work of the HIP panel. If people really feel the need to conflate these issues, then the appropriate time to do it would be after the inquest verdicts and if necessary, after any prosecutions that might (hopefully) follow.

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