Author Topic: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here  (Read 2128567 times)

Offline Original

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Re: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here
« Reply #8080 on: October 1, 2018, 11:12:04 PM »
mate of mine works for a major engineering firm, messaged me today saying he was working on some pretty detailed schemes (traffic) for outside the new anny road, couldn't tell me much due to a non disclosure agreement but plenty going on anyway

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here
« Reply #8081 on: October 2, 2018, 08:17:47 AM »
Pretty self explanatory I thought, but hey ho.

Echo Arena was cited on here as being the events venue for Liverpool City and how Anfield would in no way be allowed to stage events, taking away from the Echo.

To be fair if they had a stadium masterplan it's never been mentioned in 10 years. Kind of my point.  :-\
Why is a simple design alteration taking so long, if both ends of KD stand and Main (inc the roof) don't cause a problem? Surely a simple case of putting this (ARE design) out to tender to do upto RIBA design stage, put the planning in again to council, and then you can wait till majority of new training ground is done, whilst you tender the construction work for ARE.

I'd be really surprised if it is a funding issue, or manpower issue. We should be able to handle two projects at the same time.

What does this mean:

"Why is a simple design alteration taking so long, if both ends of KD stand and Main (inc the roof) don't cause a problem? Surely a simple case of putting this (ARE design) out to tender to do upto RIBA design stage, put the planning in again to council, and then you can wait till majority of new training ground is done, whilst you tender the construction work for ARE."

What do you mean by "RIBA Design Stage"?...  Stage 2?, Stage 3?, Stage 4? We have outline planning permission and the outline scheme is buildable without impacting the KD or Main stand roofs. The changes under consideration (as I understand it) are about marginal increases to get over 60,000 capacity. The approval for concerts might also mean improvements/modifications to provide better access for PA/Staging etc. As the changes will be to do with Employers Requirements you can't pass the design development over to a Design & Build contractor.

The training ground contract has been let (£50 million approx) and due for completion in 2020/21. The design development on the ARE stand will be ongoing and no doubt timed to ensure the contract is ready to go as soon as the cash flow and internal resources are ready.

As far as actually holding concerts goes, it was specifically prohibited in the original planning approval but the owners will have been aware of the possibility (the 2018 Fenway concert season included BIlly Joel, Foo Fighters, Pearl Jam, Def Leppard etc) and will have been working behind the scenes with the council, local residents and other parties to smooth the way.
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Offline TheMightyReds

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Re: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here
« Reply #8082 on: October 2, 2018, 03:37:49 PM »
That is the key point. The changes under consideration seemed to suggest a 4,000 seat increase. If its so simple and more or less the same cost as the training ground, amended plans should have been sent to Council by now. I just think we are too slow commercially.

Two articles.
One from 18 months ago.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/05/04/liverpool-plan-expand-anfield-beyond-60000/


Then here
https://www.thisisanfield.com/2018/02/liverpool-fc-announce-anfield-road-extension-plans-later-year/

Last one suggests they have been mulling over 3 designs since Feb 2018. Outline planning consent expires August 2019.
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Re: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here
« Reply #8083 on: October 2, 2018, 03:47:31 PM »
Again... what exactly do you want them to communicate to you?

Offline TheMightyReds

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Re: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here
« Reply #8084 on: October 2, 2018, 03:57:12 PM »
Like I said not to me. Please read it again. I've answered the repeat question on this, and the jist of it is in both replies.

Basically - why the delays? Not hard to understand surely? 


Offline Nessy76

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Re: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here
« Reply #8085 on: October 2, 2018, 04:09:07 PM »
Pretty self explanatory I thought, but hey ho.

Not at all. You seem to have started half way through a conversation nobody else was having.

Quote
Echo Arena was cited on here as being the events venue for Liverpool City and how Anfield would in no way be allowed to stage events, taking away from the Echo.

And? The club is now talking about hosting live events that would not fit at the Echo arena. So what?

Quote
To be fair if they had a stadium masterplan it's never been mentioned in 10 years. Kind of my point.  :-\

What is?
FSG's plan for Anfield is pretty clear. They redeveloped the Main Stand, and are assessing options for the Anfield Road end. They've been pretty open about that.

Quote

Why is a simple design alteration taking so long, if both ends of KD stand and Main (inc the roof) don't cause a problem? Surely a simple case of putting this (ARE design) out to tender to do upto RIBA design stage, put the planning in again to council, and then you can wait till majority of new training ground is done, whilst you tender the construction work for ARE.

I'd be really surprised if it is a funding issue, or manpower issue. We should be able to handle two projects at the same time.

They wanted to see if/how the new capacity of the Main Stand would affect demand for tickets. It seems that they have concluded there is more demand than their initial plans indicated. If so, they would need to do a lot of the background work again. (The much discussed "transport plan" is based on a theoretical 60k capacity, so if they want to go above that, they'll need a new plan.)

There's also this huge Brexit thing happening next year, and it's possible they are waiting to see which way the wind blows there. It might affect the cost of importing materials, hiring construction staff and so on. If the pound takes a fall, then the relative cost of hiring British construction workers could halve in a few months, or the cost of steel could treble. Or their entire investment in the club could shrink. Who knows? Maybe it's nothing to do with that. I still don't really know what you're trying to say.
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Re: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here
« Reply #8086 on: October 2, 2018, 04:09:58 PM »
There are no delays. Everything theyíve said has always put this as the timescale.

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Re: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here
« Reply #8087 on: October 3, 2018, 09:25:26 AM »


Basically - why the delays? Not hard to understand surely? 



What delays? There havenít been any.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here
« Reply #8088 on: October 3, 2018, 10:10:46 AM »
What delays? There havenít been any.

They're imaginary delays - if everything was being done his way the club would have two multi-million construction projects running concurrently because it's just a money thing. Clearly doesn't actually understand the design process, the construction process or the cash flow curve for construction projects. No idea about the importance of internal project champions and internal project teams - it's just Bob the Builder stuff.
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Offline Jimmy Conway

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Re: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here
« Reply #8089 on: October 3, 2018, 11:33:27 AM »
They're imaginary delays - if everything was being done his way the club would have two multi-million construction projects running concurrently because it's just a money thing. Clearly doesn't actually understand the design process, the construction process or the cash flow curve for construction projects. No idea about the importance of internal project champions and internal project teams - it's just Bob the Builder stuff.



Cheeky, Bob is a member of the Federation of Master Builders. His work is top drawer.

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Re: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here
« Reply #8090 on: October 3, 2018, 12:16:25 PM »
Oh here comes Al again with his level-headed knowledge of the large-scale building building process.
We've just about had enough of experience and facts on this site.

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Re: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here
« Reply #8091 on: October 3, 2018, 12:55:20 PM »
Bit cheeky indeed.

How are two separate projects in two separate locations difficult to achieve at the same time? Designs and project teams already working on the floor for training complex. You could have separate contractors too for both projects, not one. Internal project teams, hire some more staff. Not like we are short of paying a PM a couple of million.
Cash flow curve - Let's see. £100M approx invested on both projects. Still less than Main stand alone. It's only one stand to redevelop, not a whole stadium!

Anyway it looks like I'm being devils advocate here, and really it was just about club commercial arm speeding up and making decisions quicker and communicating better. We are too reactive, rather than proactive. Prices have already gone up for imports, and its hardly going to go down when a no deal is around the corner. Prices of stadium developments always go up, not down the longer you wait. Steel itself has gone up over 10% since last year alone.

Anyway on that note, lets see if any annoucements are made by Spring 2019.  ;D

Offline Nessy76

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Re: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here
« Reply #8092 on: October 3, 2018, 02:17:36 PM »
Bit cheeky indeed.

How are two separate projects in two separate locations difficult to achieve at the same time? Designs and project teams already working on the floor for training complex. You could have separate contractors too for both projects, not one. Internal project teams, hire some more staff. Not like we are short of paying a PM a couple of million.
Cash flow curve - Let's see. £100M approx invested on both projects. Still less than Main stand alone. It's only one stand to redevelop, not a whole stadium!

Anyway it looks like I'm being devils advocate here, and really it was just about club commercial arm speeding up and making decisions quicker and communicating better. We are too reactive, rather than proactive. Prices have already gone up for imports, and its hardly going to go down when a no deal is around the corner. Prices of stadium developments always go up, not down the longer you wait. Steel itself has gone up over 10% since last year alone.

Anyway on that note, lets see if any annoucements are made by Spring 2019.  ;D

Alan manages large construction projects, so if he says that is not a good idea, why argue unless you have relevant experience yourself?

And yes, the cost could well rise to the point where the project is not viable, and as we're not going to be building during the season in any case then maybe we need to see where that leaves us before making a final decision. Can just imagine how much whining there will be if they announced an expansion only to cancel it when the cost went up.
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Re: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here
« Reply #8093 on: October 3, 2018, 03:04:19 PM »
Fair play Nessy, I do have experience too, but will leave it at that. Let's see if they announce it by Spring 2019.

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Re: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here
« Reply #8094 on: October 3, 2018, 03:04:26 PM »
Oh here comes Al again with his level-headed knowledge of the large-scale building building process.
We've just about had enough of experience and facts on this site.
Yeah, screw those "experts" with all their knowledge, experience and, above all, proof! The Earth is flat and the climate is not changing DAMMIT!!
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