Author Topic: La Liga Thread 2013/14  (Read 204595 times)

Online AndyMuller

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3080 on: February 23, 2014, 06:33:05 PM »

Offline SamAteTheRedAcid

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3081 on: February 23, 2014, 06:37:24 PM »
The one who targetted Barcelona weaknesses was Tata Martino, leaving Xavi and Cesc off the pitch and again playing the walking zombie upfront.

 ???

Not usually one to say something like this, but you've got a cheek there to be able to call Messi that. That neck of yours needs winding in.
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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3082 on: February 23, 2014, 07:42:04 PM »
Man, you are far too much anti-Messi. He is not at his best, but it is not excuse for other attacking players like Pedro, Alexis and Neymar, who in their best days don't produce what Messi is producing now.

How can you play football with a lamppost? It is impossible.

Haven't you noticed that since Messi went back into the team the movement  off the ball by the three upfront has deteriorated badly?

Messi is always stationed in his central position never offering any support to his team mates, never moving off the ball to create space for others. Now that he is not longer the deadly force he used to be with the ball at his feet, he is in fact bringing more negatives than positives to the team.

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3083 on: February 23, 2014, 08:08:15 PM »
 :lmao

Fucking hilarious.
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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3084 on: February 23, 2014, 08:08:43 PM »
Finished at the age of 26. The Mike Tyson of football.
Quoted.
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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3085 on: February 23, 2014, 08:09:05 PM »
Atletico, the bottlers, 1-0 down to Osasuna.
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Offline Spanish Fan

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3086 on: February 23, 2014, 08:13:18 PM »
Quoted.

Atletico, the bottlers, 1-0 down to Osasuna.

I would not call them bottlers. They are punching above their weight.
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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3087 on: February 23, 2014, 08:20:50 PM »
Lovely, lovely goal.

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3088 on: February 23, 2014, 08:21:26 PM »
atletico keeps bottling it whenever barca loses points in earlier fixture

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3089 on: February 23, 2014, 08:44:20 PM »
3 nil to Osasuna, Courtois should have saved the third goal though.

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3090 on: February 23, 2014, 08:45:22 PM »
Oh my, Atletico are sinking faster than the Titanic.
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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3091 on: February 23, 2014, 08:47:36 PM »
Bloody Nora.

Offline Stringer123

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3092 on: February 23, 2014, 08:53:27 PM »
How can you play football with a lamppost? It is impossible.

Haven't you noticed that since Messi went back into the team the movement  off the ball by the three upfront has deteriorated badly?

Messi is always stationed in his central position never offering any support to his team mates, never moving off the ball to create space for others. Now that he is not longer the deadly force he used to be with the ball at his feet, he is in fact bringing more negatives than positives to the team.

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3093 on: February 23, 2014, 09:14:28 PM »
How can you play football with a lamppost? It is impossible.

Haven't you noticed that since Messi went back into the team the movement  off the ball by the three upfront has deteriorated badly?

Messi is always stationed in his central position never offering any support to his team mates, never moving off the ball to create space for others. Now that he is not longer the deadly force he used to be with the ball at his feet, he is in fact bringing more negatives than positives to the team.

Finished at the age of 26. The Mike Tyson of football.

He's scored 26 goals this season. He has 10 assists as well. He was also injured for two months of the season. In what way is he finished?  ???
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Offline Spanish Fan

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3094 on: February 23, 2014, 09:31:18 PM »
He's scored 26 goals this season. He has 10 assists as well. He was also injured for two months of the season. In what way is he finished?  ???

Finished for the elite. And I donlt care about individual stats. Whenever is Messi on the pitch these days, his teammates under perform cause his team play is non existent.

It is the same case as with Romario many years ago. He scored many goals and yet Barcelona were not any better, not to mention that when he stopped scoring them Barcelona became a worst team, when before his arrival they didn't need anyone to score most of the goals.

I don't want my team with only one focal point in attack, no matter how good that player is. It is a matter of principle and football philosophy.
With Messi scoring far more goals we have become a worst team and Barcelona are no minnows without Messi. If his stats were in benefit of the team it would be ridiculous to criticisethim, but his goalscoring comes at a price, that the team has to play for the Argentinian and become mere pawns  in the process. That eveyone has to pass him the ball first, that the wide players can never leave the wide areas, that they have to work harder in defense, and that the ball movement becomes worse with Messi standing still in the middle.

Barcelona in the last two years have played 15 entire games without Messi in the league. They have won 14 and lost one. Not too bad for a team that whenever Messi is on the pitch he has to score 50% of the goals.

« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 09:34:48 PM by Spanish Fan »
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Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3095 on: February 23, 2014, 10:13:41 PM »
Finished for the elite. And I donlt care about individual stats. Whenever is Messi on the pitch these days, his teammates under perform cause his team play is non existent.

It is the same case as with Romario many years ago. He scored many goals and yet Barcelona were not any better, not to mention that when he stopped scoring them Barcelona became a worst team, when before his arrival they didn't need anyone to score most of the goals.

I don't want my team with only one focal point in attack, no matter how good that player is. It is a matter of principle and football philosophy.
With Messi scoring far more goals we have become a worst team and Barcelona are no minnows without Messi. If his stats were in benefit of the team it would be ridiculous to criticisethim, but his goalscoring comes at a price, that the team has to play for the Argentinian and become mere pawns  in the process. That eveyone has to pass him the ball first, that the wide players can never leave the wide areas, that they have to work harder in defense, and that the ball movement becomes worse with Messi standing still in the middle.

Barcelona in the last two years have played 15 entire games without Messi in the league. They have won 14 and lost one. Not too bad for a team that whenever Messi is on the pitch he has to score 50% of the goals.

And you blame this on Messi?

Surely it has more to do with the mentality of the other players and the manager's tactics. Obviously Barca have the capabilities to be a great side with or without Messi, they have quality throughout their squad but Messi is the best player in the world and it is ridiculous to suggest Barca would be better off without him.

A better idea would be to stop the team having the mentality that they must rely in Messi. Try and get players like Alexis, Pedro and Neymar to take more responsibility in the game and not feel that to score Messi must be involved. Liverpool used to have a very similar problem with Gerrard. When he wasn't playing other players would allow themselves more freedom to play and would therefore perform better when Gerrard didn't play. The trick is to get the players to play with the same freedom when the best player is playing and this comes through giving them confidence in their ability. The solution is definitely not to get rid of the best player because it isn't him that is the problem it is the other players who have self-esteem issue.

As for Messi being a 'lamppost', Messi has been taught over the years since Pep was in charge that he must exert himself in controlled bursts due to his unusual lactic acid build up. If he was sprint around like Suarez all game, he would burn out and be unable to play most games. During Pep's era he was never injured, he clearly isn't being managed as well.

Blaming a bad result or bad run on one particular person is too simplified. Of course Messi would have been partly responsible as were all other team members but the real reason is likely to lie deeper in the management and running of the club.
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Offline Xxavi

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3096 on: February 23, 2014, 10:57:08 PM »
How can you play football with a lamppost? It is impossible.

Haven't you noticed that since Messi went back into the team the movement  off the ball by the three upfront has deteriorated badly?

Messi is always stationed in his central position never offering any support to his team mates, never moving off the ball to create space for others. Now that he is not longer the deadly force he used to be with the ball at his feet, he is in fact bringing more negatives than positives to the team.

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It is true that Pedro and Alexis went back to being average after Messi's return. But who stops them from doing what they can do best? They lack balls, IMO. They have to grow a pair and show what they can do. These are players that were bought for $$$, won titles including world cup etc. No excuse for hiding on the pitch.

Anyway, I saw positive things about Messi's injury like yourself. Dependence on him is pathetic when he plays. All players seem to expect him to do something, and when he is not around, they learn to take charge. But it is hardly Messi's fault that others lack balls. Others, including Tata Martino.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 10:59:21 PM by Xxavi »

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3097 on: February 23, 2014, 11:10:05 PM »
Spainish fan is certainly right about one thing when it comes to Messi. His work rate is rubbish these days compared to the early days of pep. Messi doesn't even press anymore without the ball and he just stands there until the ball comes near him. Before he'd move and press the opposition like an animal, I remember one moment against atleti where aguero had the ball. Messi tracked his run all the way back toward his own goal, won the ball and initiated an attack. He doesn't have that same desire anymore.

That said he's not alone in that respect, pique is the worst for it. He's a clown that has bought his own hype and refuses to remain switched on compared to when he had puyol in his pomp barking orders at him.

Offline Hayer

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3098 on: February 23, 2014, 11:11:42 PM »
???

Not usually one to say something like this, but you've got a cheek there to be able to call Messi that. That neck of yours needs winding in.

Shows you get that with every club, and it's not only our fanbase that are such twats with their legend.

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3099 on: February 24, 2014, 09:16:12 AM »
the stories about Messi not paying taxes, Barca not paying full price for Neymar etc are creating some negative aura around Barca for the neutrals... i dont know how much truth is in there though, but they are affecting

and this new manager, doesnt seem to follow Barca's philosophy

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3100 on: February 24, 2014, 10:16:19 AM »
I agree in parts with Spanish Fan regarding Messi, Some points I disagree with but I have always said Ronaldo will have more longevity than Messi.

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3101 on: February 24, 2014, 10:45:19 AM »
It is true that Pedro and Alexis went back to being average after Messi's return. But who stops them from doing what they can do best? They lack balls, IMO. They have to grow a pair and show what they can do. These are players that were bought for $$$, won titles including world cup etc. No excuse for hiding on the pitch.

Anyway, I saw positive things about Messi's injury like yourself. Dependence on him is pathetic when he plays. All players seem to expect him to do something, and when he is not around, they learn to take charge. But it is hardly Messi's fault that others lack balls. Others, including Tata Martino.

Look at it from this point of view.

You have either Neymar or Cesc as false nine or whatever we want to call it.

Cesc drops deep many times allowing either Pedro or Alexis to take the central spot where goals are scored. Cesc or Neymar go wide very often, creating space with their runs for others. That is what both Alexis and Pedro need, as they are not dribbling freaks to be stationary wide, but excellent getting into space and benefitting from movement upfront.

 Without Messi in the team, the ball movers faster cause there is nobody stationary in a critical central position. Players will interchange positions and they play much more freely cause Messi (il Messino) demands the ball to be passed to him and at his feet, slowing down many attacks. He has got away with it thanks to his tremendous ability , but at the expense of his teammates. And it is not only Alexis and Pedro who get worse. Cesc and Neymar play worse too and so do Xavi and Iniesta, cause they are missing many times an unmarked option to pass the ball to.

Then you look at the stats and conclude: this team without Messi is nothing. Well, Spain in 2012 won the Euros with many Barcelona players in it when Messi had scored like 50% of the goals for Barcelona. Do Barcelona need that Messi scores 100 goals to do something?No way, what they need is a system that does not depende on an individual to perform well in order to win.
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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3102 on: February 24, 2014, 11:40:05 AM »
I agree in parts with Spanish Fan regarding Messi, Some points I disagree with but I have always said Ronaldo will have more longevity than Messi.

I doubt it. Ronaldo always uses his acceleration to get past players. Messi has better passing skills, and a more varied repertoire in the box.
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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3103 on: February 24, 2014, 07:41:40 PM »
So Neymar has now cost barca over 100m euros. Not sure what the exhange rate is at the minute. but is he now the most expensive transfer ever taking over from Bale? must be very similar
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Offline Spanish Fan

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3104 on: February 24, 2014, 10:55:10 PM »
So Neymar has now cost barca over 100m euros. Not sure what the exhange rate is at the minute. but is he now the most expensive transfer ever taking over from Bale? must be very similar

It depends how you count it. In my book the proper transfer money is about 30 million euros. 17.5 paid to Santos and their partners, 8 million to Santos disguised as a preferential option for 3 Santos players nobody knows about, and 4. 5 million for a friendly with Santos that is never going to take place so Barcelona will have to pay that "compensation".

The rest is disguised salary to Neymar trying (and failing) to reduce the amount of taxes paid. Had it been declared as salary a 56% tax rate would apply. So they concealed it as penalty fee for breaking up  a contract  ;D,  and other commercial agreements with N&N, Neymar's father company.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 10:57:06 PM by Spanish Fan »
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Offline Xxavi

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3105 on: February 25, 2014, 01:47:42 AM »
Then you look at the stats and conclude: this team without Messi is nothing. Well, Spain in 2012 won the Euros with many Barcelona players in it when Messi had scored like 50% of the goals for Barcelona. Do Barcelona need that Messi scores 100 goals to do something?No way, what they need is a system that does not depende on an individual to perform well in order to win.
This is where I agree with you. For a team to be world class, Messi is not necessary. Spain, Germany, Bayern etc. don't have him. Many other top teams don't have him. That is why I hate how Barca become so Messi-centered when he steps on the pitch, but I also realize that this would happen anywhere Messi played. That is why I have been saying that Barca need to have a great coach where Messi is part of a well-oiled machine, not 60% of the machine.

However, a coach on his own may not accomplish this, if Messi resists. He needs to be talked to. And the board also need to realize this. They are busy kissing Messi's ass. Given how things are, only a coach like Guardiola can fix things.

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3106 on: February 25, 2014, 03:06:46 AM »
It depends how you count it. In my book the proper transfer money is about 30 million euros. 17.5 paid to Santos and their partners, 8 million to Santos disguised as a preferential option for 3 Santos players nobody knows about, and 4. 5 million for a friendly with Santos that is never going to take place so Barcelona will have to pay that "compensation".

The rest is disguised salary to Neymar trying (and failing) to reduce the amount of taxes paid. Had it been declared as salary a 56% tax rate would apply. So they concealed it as penalty fee for breaking up  a contract  ;D,  and other commercial agreements with N&N, Neymar's father company.
BTW, what do you think of Neymar transfer? Is he worth the money Barca paid for him? Was he even needed at Barca?

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3107 on: February 25, 2014, 05:50:20 AM »
i think Neymar transfer was more " lets not let Real Madrid buying him"... a bit small-time move Chelsea-esque
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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3108 on: February 26, 2014, 12:38:24 AM »
i think Neymar transfer was more " lets not let Real Madrid buying him"... a bit small-time move Chelsea-esque
No, I don't think so. It was a classic Rossel move. He seems to be "the samba football fan" among Barca higher ups. A line that advocates bringing in more and more Brazilians pointing to the past success with Romario, Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho etc.

To be honest, that is just a pathetic excuse, because Rossel was advocating for Scolari to be a Barca coach at some point, he was responsible for the transfers of Keirrison and Henrique, as far as I know. Both of these players left Barca without playing 1 (!!!) single match. And why Rossel is so much Brazil fan? Well, he has a lot of contacts in Brazil thanks to his time as a Nike executive in Brazil, as far as I read. He knows the football people, he has connections to agents, players, managers and he may even be involved in those third party ownership crap.

So it is a pretty dodgy situation all around, not sure how Rossel has not been investigated before for the transfers of Keirrison and Henrique. There is no way you buy a player for 14 million euros (or however much Keirrison cost), and get rid of him without giving him 1 minute. The guy was not needed in the first place, Barca attacking line was the best in the world back when he was purchased, and on top of that, Barca had several great youngsters in the academy. But Keirrison's and Henrqiue's failings didn't stop Rossel, he kept pushing for more Brazilians even though this is not the best generation of Brazilian players. Neymar, I am sure, was bought with a thought that he surely would not fail, and prove Rossel's policy correct. Imagine, being the guy who brought next Ronaldinho/Ronaldo? Additionally, he may be involved with the 40 million euros which went to Neymar Sr.'s company. The guy is a crook, no doubt.

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3109 on: February 26, 2014, 03:26:21 PM »
fair enough
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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3110 on: February 26, 2014, 03:54:32 PM »
Will be interesting to see how well Neymar has done for himself after this season from various points of view.
So far he has after 29 games scored   12 and assisted 11? Is he gonna be as big of a flop as Zlatan who after 45 games scored 21 and assisted 13.
Had to take stats from different sources so not fully sure.

I'm not trying to bring down Neyman as I'm a huge fan of him and think he is one of those magical Brazilian players, might of course been hyped up a bit too much but he is my eyes worth that hype to a solid 95% at least :)

Then he is younger also than Ibra and has a much bigger marketing value, but in footballing terms it's still interesting to compare.
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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3111 on: February 26, 2014, 06:24:58 PM »
Who do you lot think has made the most impact so far this season then. Neymar or Bale?

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3112 on: February 26, 2014, 06:44:06 PM »
Who do you lot think has made the most impact so far this season then. Neymar or Bale?

I would say they there isn't much between the two. My only criticism of Bale is that while he has been getting the goals and assists he disappears for fairly large periods and isn't as involved in the game. I think he's still adjusting to the team. Neymar is slightly more involved. Next season we will see the best of both.

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3113 on: March 2, 2014, 03:55:59 PM »
Come on, Atletico!

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3114 on: March 2, 2014, 03:56:06 PM »
Here we go!

Offline Kadian

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3115 on: March 2, 2014, 03:56:09 PM »
Madrid derby starting now.

Offline kennedy81

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3116 on: March 2, 2014, 04:00:20 PM »
Xabi's beard is looking majestic.

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3117 on: March 2, 2014, 04:01:46 PM »
Such an attacking lineup from Madrid, holy cow. That front 3 is insane

Offline cissepower

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3118 on: March 2, 2014, 04:02:47 PM »
Looking forward to this.
~~Justice For The 96, You'll Never Walk Alone~~

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: La Liga Thread 2013/14
« Reply #3119 on: March 2, 2014, 04:02:56 PM »
Hope Atletico win this so the title race remains a 3 horse race a while longer. Can't see anything other than a Real win though, based on the Copa del Rey games recently