Author Topic: Solidarity and tributes from fans of other clubs  (Read 175959 times)

Offline gunnerstu

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Solidarity and tributes from fans of other clubs
« on: September 14, 2012, 08:52:42 PM »
I'm an Arsenal fan with no allegiances to LFC - but I've been moved to sign up to this forum today to show some solidarity with the fans and families of fans of LFC.

Its hard to express what I really feel - shame is the main feeling. I live in a society where I've allowed this to happen so I feel as much to blame as anyone for the truth not being heard earlier. I hope you can understand but you see the lies were convenient - they fitted and they were easy to swallow. Even as I stood for the minutes silence for the 96 at the Emirates last year I was only really honouring the dead on a human level - even then I was fairly sure of the version of reality that I'd decided upon.

This week has been shocking for me only on the realisation that I've got it wrong for so many years. I'd always known that there were lots of factors at play but having been to so many games in that era I'd just assumed.......but it was wrong.

If I'm this upset I don't know how those of you directly affected can be coping right now. If my changed reality is worth anything to you then here it is - use it and take it for what you can. I and anyone I've spoken to this week am shocked, stunned and absolutely behind the fans and their families. The truth won't be forgotten.  :'(

Good luck with the next steps and I hope you can find something positive to take forwards and find some normality after this.

RIP the 96 and peace for their loved ones.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 03:28:48 PM by The 5th Benitle »

Offline Cochise

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2012, 09:17:41 PM »
Thanks for your comments mate. I think lots of other fans have been educated this week in something that LFC fans have known all along. Some of the stuff that came out shocked everyone, LFC fans included.
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Offline Mr Kipling

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2012, 11:12:55 PM »

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2012, 11:26:23 PM »
Thanks, Stu. Stick around, we have a few Arsenal fans on here and fans of other clubs are very welcome :wave

Offline redgriffin73

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2012, 11:29:20 PM »
Thanks for posting Stu.
Rafa Benitez: "I'll always keep in my heart the good times I've had here, the strong and loyal support of the fans in the tough times and the love from Liverpool. I have no words to thank you enough for all these years and I am very proud to say that I was your manager. Thank you so much once more and always remember: You'll never walk alone."

Offline Jrkopite

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2012, 11:31:35 PM »
Fair play to you but it's annoying the amount of people who are now showing "solidarity" after believing all the lies for the last twenty three years.

Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2012, 11:33:16 PM »
If my changed reality is worth anything to you then here it is - use it and take it for what you can. I and anyone I've spoken to this week am shocked, stunned and absolutely behind the fans and their families.

That's one of the best things that has happened this week in a nutshell. A changed reality, and the fact that so many eyes have been opened to the true extent of the whole disgusting travesty. It's especially pleasing to hear it coming from opposition fans.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 11:35:34 PM by Barney_Rhibble »
87:13

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2012, 11:35:40 PM »
Fair play to you but it's annoying the amount of people who are now showing "solidarity" after believing all the lies for the last twenty three years.
surely that's a victory in its self?

Offline boodiddy

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2012, 11:35:57 PM »
I've been touched by the response from rival clubs. I really have. I have been shocked by our so many people have immedialtely been visibly shocked and almost disgusted with themselves for believing the establishments version of events.

We have always known. Our club and the families can rejoice in the fact that most of the world knows the truth. That tinge of resentment to everyone connected with the club and hillsbrough has been dispersed. Now, we need to fight fo rjustice. But, the angels can rest in peace knowing they were totally blameless and everyone now knows.

Id love it if we could possibly show the world how truly great the club and people are. I was thinking it would be poignant to have a banner in the kop against united to commemorate those players and staff killed at Munich. We are the two greatest clubs in the world and with a global focus on it. Lets show the world. One city, one people, one mindset.

A truly special emotional club that can never be tarnished.

Offline Em5y

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2012, 11:36:14 PM »
I'm an Arsenal fan with no allegiances to LFC - but I've been moved to sign up to this forum today to show some solidarity with the fans and families of fans of LFC. I realise that this thread is in the wrong forum but I wasn't able to start one in the Hillsborough forum.

Its hard to express what I really feel - shame is the main feeling. I live in a society where I've allowed this to happen so I feel as much to blame as anyone for the truth not being heard earlier. I hope you can understand but you see the lies were convenient - they fitted and they were easy to swallow. Even as I stood for the minutes silence for the 96 at the Emirates last year I was only really honouring the dead on a human level - even then I was fairly sure of the version of reality that I'd decided upon.

This week has been shocking for me only on the realisation that I've got it wrong for so many years. I'd always known that there were lots of factors at play but having been to so many games in that era I'd just assumed.......but it was wrong.

If I'm this upset I don't know how those of you directly affected can be coping right now. If my changed reality is worth anything to you then here it is - use it and take it for what you can. I and anyone I've spoken to this week am shocked, stunned and absolutely behind the fans and their families. The truth won't be forgotten.  :'(

Good luck with the next steps and I hope you can find something positive to take forwards and find some normality after this.

RIP the 96 and peace for their loved ones.


Don't feel shame.

You were lied to by the very people you should be placing your trust in.  Be angry.

The fight for justice starts now, and as some of the other topics on this board show - there is plenty you can do to help.

Offline Barneylfc

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2012, 11:37:51 PM »
Fair play to you but it's annoying the amount of people who are now showing "solidarity" after believing all the lies for the last twenty three years.

Sorry mate but I have to disagree with you. Many people outside of Liverpool, and Liverpool fans, didn't have a direct interest in the events of 15th April 1989. As a Liverpool fan, it's almost a pre requisite to know what happened that day. There is no requirement if you are a fan of any other club to look deeper into what happened than what was reported in the media. Yes it has taken 23 years to get the truth out there, but it is out there now. The next step is Justice, and we should take all the backing that is coming our way.

Offline Cochise

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2012, 11:41:56 PM »
surely that's a victory in its self?

It is. Its fantastic(if that's the right word to use) to see.
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Offline Rusty

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2012, 11:42:24 PM »
Cheers for that Stu, glad that you know know what all of us have known for the last 23 years, and hopefully the fact we have been through it means that you and your lot will never have to experience anything like it in future.

He's made Kaizer wet himself with excitement then cry when he realises all in one post. Ban him? Knight him in the new year's honours!

Offline Jimmy_IMP

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2012, 11:43:02 PM »
Just signed up to add to the solidarity sentiment of the OP. I am (for my sins) a Lincoln City supporter, which obviously was involved in the other large tragedy in football of the past century, so have always followed the Justice campaign closely, very very happy to see the truth, and await Justice. Irrespective of what journey fans of other clubs took, the destination has become the same, and that's to ensure that this wrong is righted.

Keep fighting the fight lads/lasses, were all behind you.

Offline LiverLuke

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2012, 11:44:40 PM »
thanks for the comments mate, nice to see a lot eyes finally being opened.

Offline blert596

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2012, 11:44:57 PM »
Fair play to you but it's annoying the amount of people who are now showing "solidarity" after believing all the lies for the last twenty three years.

I'm quite the opposite. I've always tried to educate people quite calmly about Hillsborough. Some have listened and taken in what I've explained, some have lisened but really weren't that arsed about it - quite happy to believe the version everyone in authority had fed them - and in their eyes why shouldnt they - many of them werent even born when it happened and weren't from Liverpool. Others were just twattish and werent interested BUT were quite happy to PUSH their version onto others.

This week has been a massive eye opener for a lot of people and I welcome every single one of them who can now take a good look at themselves and say "fuck me, could I have been any more wrong". Every one of these people this week have all of a sudden become what I've wanted them to be all along about Hillsborough. Educated.

Fair play to them all for having the balls to come out and say they were wrong but now they know the truth they offer their support.
All the badge kissing in the world don't make up for the fact that they are, frankly, not Liverpool Football Club. It's not their fault. Its just how it is.

Offline Jrkopite

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2012, 11:45:07 PM »
Sorry mate but I have to disagree with you. Many people outside of Liverpool, and Liverpool fans, didn't have a direct interest in the events of 15th April 1989. As a Liverpool fan, it's almost a pre requisite to know what happened that day. There is no requirement if you are a fan of any other club to look deeper into what happened than what was reported in the media. Yes it has taken 23 years to get the truth out there, but it is out there now. The next step is Justice, and we should take all the backing that is coming our way.
Well my point of view is that a lot of people based their opinions on what they read in the papers, if I'm not mistaken the S*N mainly as that had such a high circulation.
Anyone with half a brain would take anything that comic printed with a huge pinch of salt.

Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2012, 11:49:37 PM »
Fair play to you but it's annoying the amount of people who are now showing "solidarity" after believing all the lies for the last twenty three years.

I think we all know where you're coming from, but we really should welcome the wider understanding.

The tide has definitely turned.


^^ Yes, the Scum should be the target of that anger.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 11:51:56 PM by Barney_Rhibble »
87:13

Offline Barneylfc

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2012, 11:49:58 PM »
Well my point of view is that a lot of people based their opinions on what they read in the papers, if I'm not mistaken the S*N mainly as that had such a high circulation.
Anyone with half a brain would take anything that comic printed with a huge pinch of salt.

Our fight is for Justice. Not against opposition fans who are now on our side. I don't give a flying fuck where they got their views from. The fact they are now on our side is enough for me.

Offline BSBW

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2012, 11:50:47 PM »
Welcome to RAWK Stu and thanks for the support, it is now, and will continue to be vital in the continued fight for justice.
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Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2012, 11:53:25 PM »
Well my point of view is that a lot of people based their opinions on what they read in the papers, if I'm not mistaken the S*N mainly as that had such a high circulation.
Anyone with half a brain would take anything that comic printed with a huge pinch of salt.
They should. However, it's the best selling paper, so that should tell you something.

I think Barney is spot on. I also don't think someone finding out the truth should be turned into an "I told you so" of sorts.

On a side note, I am hoping to hear the Justice chant at a few games this weekend. It would mean a lot.

And welcome, stu.

Offline DLF

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2012, 11:56:32 PM »
Fair play to you but it's annoying the amount of people who are now showing "solidarity" after believing all the lies for the last twenty three years.
Sadly there are many injustices around the world I am ignorant about as well so thanks for posting Stu.
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2012, 11:57:32 PM »

Offline MikaelLFC

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2012, 11:58:12 PM »
I think we all know where you're coming from, but we really should welcome the wider understanding.

The tide has definitely turned.

Couldn't agree more with you.


Stu, first off, welcome to RAWK, and second, many thanks for posting. It really makes me glad to see all the solidarity from fans of other clubs that we've seen these days.
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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2012, 12:01:17 AM »

Its hard to express what I really feel - shame is the main feeling. I live in a society where I've allowed this to happen so I feel as much to blame as anyone for the truth not being heard earlier. I hope you can understand but you see the lies were convenient - they fitted and they were easy to swallow.


You're not alone on that score - I've read plenty of similar comments to yours over the past couple of days , and the main thing now is that the truth is out .

Fair play for your comments.
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Offline Jrkopite

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2012, 12:02:34 AM »
The reason I said I found it annoying is personal to me.
I live in London and I've spent the last twenty three years defending LFC the city and the fans against a lot of ignorant views.
Anyway I'm off to bed.

Offline TSC

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2012, 12:08:00 AM »
I've spent quite a bit of the last couple of days obviously on here when not at work, but also had a nose on red cafe (utd forum).  Must say the content there has been generally excellent, with many echoing what's been said on here.

Have to say, and I prob won't articulate this in the way that it's meant, is that I'm astounded by the change in attitude on other forums, and even liaising with mates on likes of facebook, who've had no love of LFC previously. 

I'm not so much 'astounded' by the fact they've changed attitudes.  But by the realisation that they all actually did believe the lies and that LFC fans were partly to blame, if not the cause.  I always thought they actually knew 'deep down' that there was a cover up (as we did) but that for whatever reason, be it vindictiveness or for those of a more ignorant attitude, simple refusal to look beyond prejudices, it suited all to peddle the venom continuously.

For example we're all used to listening to UTD singing 'it's never your fault..' at Anfield.  But like many I simply thought this was UTD merely being vindictive as they hate us.  But no, it was genuine.  Because they all believed the lies.

Hard to get the head around it all.

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2012, 12:08:15 AM »
The reason I said I found it annoying is personal to me.
I live in London and I've spent the last twenty three years defending LFC the city and the fans against a lot of ignorant views.
Anyway I'm off to bed.

this is where i have been. Massive rows and heated disscussions with peolpe who just didnt understand, and some who were just cocks.
I need not shout over anyone anymore..!

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Offline Barneylfc

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2012, 12:15:52 AM »
The reason I said I found it annoying is personal to me.
I live in London and I've spent the last twenty three years defending LFC the city and the fans against a lot of ignorant views.
Anyway I'm off to bed.

You dont need to defend against them anymore mate. Their eyes have been opened, and it couldn't have been done without your help. Sleep well.

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2012, 12:17:00 AM »
Welcome to RAWK Stu and Jimmy.  Thanks so much for your support.  It means a lot.
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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2012, 12:17:11 AM »
Thanks stu and Jimmy.

Out of interest, what exactly changed your view? Do you know the sea-change, paradigm-shift, perspective-altering moment or was it just a gradual realisation based on several points?

It has particularly intrigued me this week, the aspect of how public opinion - the national conscience - seemed to be against us for so long yet now it's almost universally on our side.

I'd like to think that public opinion started really to shift in our direction in 2009, primarily because the 20th anniversary was such a significant time but also partially because we had many allies in the media who were prepared to 'buck the trend' and focus on the truth......then the formation of the Panel.......then the parliamentary debate in autumn......then the release of the report this week......

One of the things that hit me a lot harder than I realised was just how on our side the papers were this week. Sure, cynically we could say, "Took youse long enough!" but every victory against ignorance (and I mean that in the true etymological sense of the word, being simply 'lack of knowledge' rather than bigotry) should be celebrated.

So - what were your turning points?

Oh and welcome :wave
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Offline didi shamone

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2012, 12:20:28 AM »
Thanks for your comments mate. I think lots of other fans have been educated this week in something that LFC fans have known all along. Some of the stuff that came out shocked everyone, LFC fans included.


And to be honest..... in my case this report is preaching to the converted, but you're dead right, as a Liverpool fan I am shocked by some of the revelations. Fucking stunned I have to say. I usually avoid Hillsborough threads because I'm not from the city and don't want to stick my oar in where it's not needed.
But the way those on the front line of this campaign have stuck doggidly to their task for so long makes me so proud to be a red. I've loved the city since my first visit in the 90s and can't wait to bring my kid for his first game this year. YNWA.

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2012, 12:21:20 AM »
Thanks Stu.
Brexit. As stupid as you can imagine.

The poor voting to make themselves worse off and their masters richer.

Offline sandwichescorner

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2012, 12:21:53 AM »
The reason I said I found it annoying is personal to me.
I live in London and I've spent the last twenty three years defending LFC the city and the fans against a lot of ignorant views.
Anyway I'm off to bed.

As a London red (who has also lived in Liverpool and now lives nowhere near either of them), I understand it's a bit wearing defending the club and city against people who have been spoonfed general nonsense about both, and far worse the Hillsborough propaganda for so many years. But isn't that part of our responsibility as fans, to defend our corner, to at least try to lift the wool over non-LFC people's eyes?

It takes a bit of nerve to go onto another club's form and post as honestly as Stu did, I say hats off to the guy, and that any such solidarity behind our cause should be welcomed wholeheartedly.

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2012, 12:21:59 AM »
Stu, thanks for your humility and honesty.

On this board you will also find links to the petitions to have Patnick and Bettinson stripped of their knighthoods. A good way to help now, after the initial battle has been won, would be to spread the word of these as much as you possibly can and help us to bring these bastards down a peg or two.
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Offline El Diablos

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2012, 12:23:01 AM »
surely that's a victory in its self?

Correct. I'm sure, over the last 23 years, most of us at some point have been driven to frustration, disappointment and anger by those who didn't see the truth as we knew it. Some people, many in fact, have been happy to have their inherent prejudice and bigotry reflected and reinforced by the concerted efforts of smeer and malicious misinformation. Others though have perhaps been  content just to accept the consensus of opinion; afterall the police, press and powers that be had created a narrative so promiscuous that the meme lasted long after evidence and refutation. Many others still, have merely grown up accepting the insinuation of no smoke without fire.

That is why we should be so thankful for the panel report, for it has once and for all blown that smoke away. It has obliterated the lingering effects of the untruths, misinformation and distortion. Some will hold on to their malice and prejudice of course, its in some people's nature to hate and dehumanise. But for many, hopefully the majority, the scales will fallen from their eyes and it has dawned upon them just how deep and far and wide the abuse of power has been. Its been truly shocking to some people to see the extent of the cover up. It's just so important that the truth has been proclaimed so widely and people understand, I welcome anyone who can now see that so clearly. That as you say is a victory in itself.

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2012, 12:23:15 AM »
I usually avoid Hillsborough threads because I'm not from the city and don't want to stick my oar in where it's not needed.

I'm from Belfast. Can i just ask why exactly do you feel your 'oar' is not needed?

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2012, 12:28:17 AM »
They should. However, it's the best selling paper, so that should tell you something.
Things change...

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2012, 12:28:51 AM »


Welcome and thanks for your thoughts. It's really encouraging to see that supporters of other clubs are not so engrained in their thinking after so long that they can't accept the truth in the face of years of lies. It's a refrain I come to often (whether it be regarding Hillsborough, politics, or even just sport), but so many people are looking for affirmation, not information; they already know "the truth" and if you're not parroting what they "know" then you're not worth their time. It's a very frightening aspect of society and, ironically, one you see quite often on forums such as this (albeit to much less sinister degrees on subjects infinitely less important). IMO, it is that indifference towards another line of thinking that was perhaps the biggest obstacle these past 23 years. I find it truly inspiring that the families of the 96 and so many others have been able to continue their fight in the face of such radical indifference. Posts such as yours, Stu, give me hope that the tide has finally turned and, while their fight is still not over, it might no longer be so starkly uphill.
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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2012, 12:31:41 AM »
Well my point of view is that a lot of people based their opinions on what they read in the papers, if I'm not mistaken the S*N mainly as that had such a high circulation.
Anyone with half a brain would take anything that comic printed with a huge pinch of salt.
Even if they did, is that not the whole point of revealing the truth?