Author Topic: David Moores  (Read 70537 times)

Offline xerxes1

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #200 on: March 14, 2010, 12:43:21 PM »
And I understand why he was given it, and why he took it.  The question is - why he keeps it?  I believe it to be vanity.  I don't buy into the "working from within" for a moment.   
I agree. But I also believe he is a sideshow. Yesterdays man.
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Re: David Moores
« Reply #201 on: March 14, 2010, 07:39:32 PM »
I agree. But I also believe he is a sideshow. Yesterdays man.

I agree with you.  Unfortunately, there are many decent reds who do not agree with either of us, and that is a great pity.

We could use a scapegoat.  Putting a silver bracelet around Moores' neck, then chasing him out of the village into the wilderness to die would make me feel better for a few days.

Well I certainly wouldn't raise any objection save to ask, we being in the midst of a recession and so forth, that could we not make do with tin in place of silver?  But the driving him out into the wilderness bit certainly does give me a warm glow. 
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Offline LiverpoolFaCupFan

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #202 on: March 14, 2010, 09:45:25 PM »
he could go a small way to repairing the damage if he bought back £100m worth of the club and gave it to SOS, they did mention they were looking at options for a fan buyout, think this could be explored further?
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Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #203 on: March 14, 2010, 10:31:38 PM »
Ask him to privately fund SoS so we can go somewhere to repairing the damage he's done.

Offline stfabians

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #204 on: March 14, 2010, 10:52:59 PM »
I disagree - I don't want the man re-connected with the club in anyway shape or form, the guy's a looser!! The only good thing about the yanks was they got rid of this joker and his party clown.  I know they have been a disgrace, and I want rid of them as much as anyone, but not for the old guard, that would really make us a laughing stock and be the equivalent of doing this -  :butt 

Remember how bad commercially we were under Moore's, in this respect he's been made to look a fool by G&H (ok not hard), and in no way would attempt to advance some of the positive work done to improve us in this regard.

Trying to get Moore's on board in my book would smack of desperation.

Offline danwms

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #205 on: March 15, 2010, 12:32:54 PM »
I think he probably want to get as far away from this issue as possible.

Offline xerxes1

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #206 on: March 15, 2010, 02:19:38 PM »
he could go a small way to repairing the damage if he bought back £100m worth of the club and gave it to SOS, they did mention they were looking at options for a fan buyout, think this could be explored further?

Why not  ask him yourself?
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Offline LiverpoolFaCupFan

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #207 on: March 15, 2010, 08:39:58 PM »
Why not  ask him yourself?

hope you're takin the piss?

or do you actually want me to explain why it's more likely to be a success if SOS got involved.
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Offline Lord Roger Hunt

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #208 on: March 15, 2010, 08:52:40 PM »
I happen to think what's happened to LFC keeps Mr Moores awake at night - he knows what he's done; he's failed his family and he's failed us. 

It's death by a thousand cuts for him...a very sad man.
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Offline TipTopKop

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #209 on: March 17, 2010, 11:59:56 AM »
I don't buy into the "working from within" for a moment.  Davy is quite happy getting someone else to do the nasty bits, but doesn't personally do the sharp end stuff.  When push comes to shove he is a spineless shitehawk - as quite a few of us witnessed.
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Offline xerxes1

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #210 on: March 17, 2010, 12:27:10 PM »
I happen to think what's happened to LFC keeps Mr Moores awake at night - he knows what he's done; he's failed his family and he's failed us.
It's death by a thousand cuts for him...a very sad man.

Both of us can only speculate, he hasn't said yet.

I am a critic of his regime, but acknowledge that the sale was an honest admission that he was unable/unwilling to take the club any further.In financial terms he, and his family, did exceptionally well out of the sale.It was the right sale at the right time - no lost sleep over that I would have thought.

Regrets? I  feel sure that he is saddened by how this has played out. Equally, if the call had gone in DIC's favour we might also have been in similar trouble.

 His decicion to sell was right, the buyers at the time, as it turned out were duds whichever way it had gone.
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Offline redannie

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #211 on: March 17, 2010, 12:28:23 PM »
Both of us can only speculate, he hasn't said yet.

I am a critic of his regime, but acknowledge that the sale was an honest admission that he was unable/unwilling to take the club any further.In financial terms he, and his family, did exceptionally well out of the sale.It was the right sale at the right time - no lost sleep over that I would have thought.

Regrets? I  feel sure that he is saddened by how this has played out. Equally, if the call had gone in DIC's favour we might also have been in similar trouble.

 His decicion to sell was right, the buyers at the time, as it turned out were duds whichever way it had gone.

Well said

Offline Lord Roger Hunt

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #212 on: March 17, 2010, 12:49:12 PM »
Both of us can only speculate, he hasn't said yet.

I am a critic of his regime, but acknowledge that the sale was an honest admission that he was unable/unwilling to take the club any further.In financial terms he, and his family, did exceptionally well out of the sale.It was the right sale at the right time - no lost sleep over that I would have thought.

Regrets? I  feel sure that he is saddened by how this has played out. Equally, if the call had gone in DIC's favour we might also have been in similar trouble.

 His decicion to sell was right, the buyers at the time, as it turned out were duds whichever way it had gone.

Agreed but I doubt that most LFC fans would think of it in such a considerate way. However, I was thinking more of the Moores family standing on Merseyside. I suspect he can't show his face without suffering abuse ....?
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Offline xerxes1

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #213 on: March 17, 2010, 01:17:24 PM »
Agreed but I doubt that most LFC fans would think of it in such a considerate way. However, I was thinking more of the Moores family standing on Merseyside. I suspect he can't show his face without suffering abuse ....?
True. But don't forget that he aso cashed in on the Pools and Retail Empire, with large job losses afterwards, and he weathered that.
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Offline Lord Roger Hunt

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #214 on: March 20, 2010, 11:43:33 AM »
True. But don't forget that he aso cashed in on the Pools and Retail Empire, with large job losses afterwards, and he weathered that.

OK, but I suspect the LFC issue is more emotive on Merseyside, touching many more people as it does?  Anyway, no doubt he sleeps in silk sheets so I don't think he's awake worrying for that long......
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Offline scatman

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #215 on: March 20, 2010, 12:36:24 PM »
True. But don't forget that he aso cashed in on the Pools and Retail Empire, with large job losses afterwards, and he weathered that.

That was major and the Moores family made big money from the pools, your right they did survive after that
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Offline maj

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #216 on: March 20, 2010, 07:00:13 PM »
I happen to think what's happened to LFC keeps Mr Moores awake at night - he knows what he's done; he's failed his family and he's failed us. 

It's death by a thousand cuts for him...a very sad man.

How about forgiveness. Moores made a mistake, and he is paying for it as Roger hunt said. But why do LFC fans keep on buying match tickets and merchandise and thus pay the debt off for GG and Moores and allowing them to get refinance??

All of those who go to matches and buy merchandise know what Gg and Hicks are alike. The excuse is we go to support the team. Maybe moores sold to try and pass the club onto owners who would make the team better and it was his way of supporting the team. We could be here all day looking for people to blame. There is no point whats done is done.

Look forward and try and get into the public domain as to what total fwits The rhone group are and how they are associated with Hicks. If they take us over we are going backwards.

Offline TSC

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #217 on: March 20, 2010, 08:23:25 PM »
I disagree - I don't want the man re-connected with the club in anyway shape or form, the guy's a looser!! The only good thing about the yanks was they got rid of this joker and his party clown.  I know they have been a disgrace, and I want rid of them as much as anyone, but not for the old guard, that would really make us a laughing stock and be the equivalent of doing this -  :butt 

Remember how bad commercially we were under Moore's, in this respect he's been made to look a fool by G&H (ok not hard), and in no way would attempt to advance some of the positive work done to improve us in this regard.

Trying to get Moore's on board in my book would smack of desperation.

I reckon most supporters would love to be able to turn the clock back to 2007 and have the old regime in charge instead of the current wilderness we're now in.  Don't rem any marches re the old regime, or supporters blocking Moores entry/exit to/from the ground.

The commercial argument is redundant to a large extent as little to nowt is given towards strengthening the team anyway.

And yes, we're very desperate at the mo.

Offline robb95

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #218 on: March 21, 2010, 02:31:07 AM »
ok dont shoot me for this, but moores couldn't take us forward h&g have all be it for their own gain if we where still under him what would have happened ?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 02:35:16 AM by robb95 »
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Offline J-Mc-

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #219 on: March 21, 2010, 03:08:47 AM »
ok dont shoot me for this, but moores couldn't take us forward h&g have all be it for their own gain if we where still under him what would have happened ?

hardly any debt on the club and looking for decent bargain players, either way we'd still be struggling but we wouldn't have the huge amount of debt so we could afford to spend the money on players.

maybe a bit more money if we would have still got SC as the sponsor next season.

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #220 on: March 21, 2010, 08:36:03 AM »
All DM had to do was use Parry as the clubs accoutnant and appoint someone like Ayres, Purslow and Nash now.

The PL TV money and sponsorship deals would have taken care of the club and the 3 fellas mentioned would have oversaw the building of a new stadium and we would have been on the way to becoming like Arsenal by now and not fucking Man Utd (In terms of debt!)

Moores is a fuck up.

Offline Mad Men

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #221 on: March 21, 2010, 12:56:37 PM »
True. But don't forget that he aso cashed in on the Pools and Retail Empire, with large job losses afterwards, and he weathered that.

In 2142 posts you have made on this forums, thats probably the smartest comment/statement I have read from you thus far.

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #222 on: March 21, 2010, 12:59:22 PM »
How about forgiveness.

why?? he sold out and instead of trying to rectify his enoromous fuckup he just keeps quiet, not saying a word..

Offline TALBERT

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #223 on: March 21, 2010, 08:20:49 PM »

June 2004- Feb 2007


Moores 2004/2005           Spent 27.5m                               Sold 11.0m          Net 16.5m
Moores 2005/2006           Spent 26.7m                               Sold 14m              Net 12.7m
Moores Jan 2007              Spent 5m + Monster loan            Sold 1.5m            Net 5m

Feb 2007-Present

Hicks & Gillette summer 2007        Spent 24.5m               Sold 8.5m          Net 16m spent
Hicks & Gillette 2007/2008            Spent 70.7m               Sold 36.7m        Net 34.0m spent
Hicks & Gillette 2008/2009            Spent 39.0m               Sold  36.0m       Net 3.0m spent
Hicks & Gillette 2009/2010            Spent 36.7m               Sold 36.7m        Net 0.0m
Hicks & Gillette Winter 2010          Spent 1.0m                 Sold 6.5m          Net 5.5m profit

Hicks & Gillette have spent 47.5m in 4 seasons
Moores spent 34m in 2 seasons

These figures show we have not moved forward under the yanks............
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Offline J-Mc-

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #224 on: March 21, 2010, 08:48:12 PM »
From those figures alone it shows just how much better off we would have been if we'd have kept moores, sacked parry and got Ayres and/or Purslow in.

Offline xerxes1

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #225 on: March 21, 2010, 09:35:37 PM »
In 2142 posts you have made on this forums, thats probably the smartest comment/statement I have read from you thus far.

With so much to choose from, I am flattered that you have selected that quote, thank you.
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Re: David Moores
« Reply #226 on: March 21, 2010, 10:00:03 PM »
Hicks & Gillette summer 2007        Spent 24.5m               Sold 8.5m          Net 16m spent
Hicks & Gillette 2007/2008            Spent 70.7m               Sold 36.7m        Net 34.0m spent

isnt there a bit of double counting there?

Offline Stevie07

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #227 on: March 21, 2010, 10:19:49 PM »
why?? he sold out and instead of trying to rectify his enoromous fuckup he just keeps quiet, not saying a word..

Yep, if he really is as devasted as has been suggested then he needs to speak up, maybe then we can talk about forgiveness. Moores should be playing his part in trying to rid the club of the people he sold it to, even if it is just statements in the press. The fact he has chosen to do nothing does not reflect well on him.

Offline stueya

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #228 on: March 22, 2010, 12:08:45 AM »
From those figures alone it shows just how much better off we would have been if we'd have kept moores, sacked parry and got Ayres and/or Purslow in.

That point generally goes unacknowledged by many amongst our support, since Parry was both stripped of power and then resigned the club has never physically made as much money as it does now- albeit the profit is swallowed up by the debt.

It was widely accepted that the club well and truly missed the boat after Istanbul due to the amateurish way it was run especially over the Reebok fiasco but likewise you can also go back to 2001 and the treble trophy season to see just how badly things were ran.

It makes you wonder that if things had been different then the club may never of had to be sold in the first place. 
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Re: David Moores
« Reply #229 on: March 22, 2010, 12:34:21 AM »
It makes you wonder that if things had been different then the club may never of had to be sold in the first place. 

agree my friend, like I said earlier, Moores was a brilliant owner for us, sure he didn't have the money but somehow we managed to win a Champions league and FA cup trophy under him with the money he gave us for player transfers.

We were fine with Moores but not with Moores and Parry.

Moores + Purslow/Ayres = A very well run club IMO

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #230 on: March 22, 2010, 09:30:11 AM »
Well, everyone here seems to be of the agreement that David Moores ran the club ineptly simply because he has no actual business acumen at all.  Hence the cries to get him out and get someone who knows what the hell they are doing were rampant across this and virtually every other Liverpool forum.


And all of a sudden you expect him to have somehow aqcuired the business knowledge to tell his very expensive, experienced, financial advisors that they are wrong and we should look into the shysters some more. Going directly against the man he had specifically running the club for years.

David Mores (IMO) is guilty of nothing more than incredible naivety and being rich and left in charge of something he hadn't a clue how to run properly. Compounded that he loved what he had, and the fact he had advisors that had conflicting interests on what was best for them and best for the club.

I can't bring myself to hate Moores, I actually pity him.

I wish he would speak out and tell everyone exactly what happened and why. Maybe he has a confidentiality clause imposed. I hope so as otherwise he's in a good position to make the large proportion of our fans wake up and see whats happening to the clove they purport to love.


what he said

Offline xerxes1

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #231 on: March 22, 2010, 10:18:45 AM »
Well, everyone here seems to be of the agreement that David Moores ran the club ineptly simply because he has no actual business acumen at all. 

Moores sold Littlwoods Pools,Retail and us at the top of the market, that shows considerable business acumen.He also sold us acknowledging that he could do no more with the club, and had no desire to do so.

His regime was running on the momentum of the past two and a half decades of success and was characterised by poor decison making, and a failure to invest in the infra structure of the club
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Re: David Moores
« Reply #232 on: March 22, 2010, 11:27:43 AM »
Moores sold Littlwoods Pools,Retail and us at the top of the market, that shows considerable business acumen.He also sold us acknowledging that he could do no more with the club, and had no desire to do so.

His regime was running on the momentum of the past two and a half decades of success and was characterised by poor decison making, and a failure to invest in the infra structure of the club

So are you saying that he is a really good businessman due to his dealings with getting best price for Littlewoods, and deliberately selling us at a massive profit for himself and fellow shareholders. But failed to be able to grasp the long term profit that could have been available for both him and the club due to his lack of business acumen.

Is it a case of him looking out for himself and knowingly saying sod the club? Or do you believe he sold in good faith and (like the rest/most of us) failed to see what H&G had in mind all along. Or do you think H&G got into this with a reasonable agenda for themselves and the club, and subsequently realised  that they were out of their depth in what was required, and all actions since have been because of this?
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Re: David Moores
« Reply #233 on: March 22, 2010, 01:46:03 PM »
So are you saying that he is a really good businessman due to his dealings with getting best price for Littlewoods, and deliberately selling us at a massive profit for himself and fellow shareholders. But failed to be able to grasp the long term profit that could have been available for both him and the club due to his lack of business acumen.

Is it a case of him looking out for himself and knowingly saying sod the club? Or do you believe he sold in good faith and (like the rest/most of us) failed to see what H&G had in mind all along. Or do you think H&G got into this with a reasonable agenda for themselves and the club, and subsequently realised  that they were out of their depth in what was required, and all actions since have been because of this?

I am no fan of Moore’s LFC regime. He coasted on past success, failed to invest in the structure of the club and the ground , made poor managerial decisions, and provided poor leadership all round.

The first paragraph of mine you quoted was in response to someone who said he had no business acumen, his record proves the reverse. I AM saying that he is a good businessman for selling the Pools and Retail business at the top of the market. Both businesses subsequently collapsed. Interestingly in both cases he sold because he did not have the energy, know-how, or will to guide those businesses through the periods of massive change which would have been required to keep them  successful. As for us, he sold at a price which has never been offered again, so yes, he was successful in personal and shareholder terms. But it was his 17 years in charge that did the damage and I hold him accountable for, not the sale.

I disagree that he “failed to  grasp the long term profit that could have been available for both him and the club due to his lack of business acumen.” He came out of the sale with around £80m. The club needed ( and still needs) £350m on a new stadium, and over a five year term including when the stadium was being built at least another £200m on the team to compete with the Top 3 and Man City. Including the then debt we were sold for £220m. Exactly when in the future are we going to be worth more than £770m? He got out because he acknowledged that he had neither the  energy, know how or will to guide us through that period ( sound familiar?), and quite properly thought that £80m now was a lot better than “something” a long way in the future.

As for your second paragraph, I think that he sold in good faith to G&H and is as horrified as all of us as to how it has gone wrong. Equally, subsequent events have proved that if DIC had bought us things could have been just as bad. G&H? I think that they came in with reasonably good intentions, and have been monstered by both their own total inability to understand what they had bought, and events beyond their control. They did not understand how emotive the debt issue would be with the fans, nor did they anticipate not being able to get a new stadium built to both finance the debt more easily, and raise the capital value of the club for re-sale.
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Offline blert596

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #234 on: March 22, 2010, 02:05:25 PM »
Thanks for the reply Xerxes. I dont think there's anything there I disagree with.
All the badge kissing in the world don't make up for the fact that they are, frankly, not Liverpool Football Club. It's not their fault. Its just how it is.

Offline TALBERT

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #235 on: March 23, 2010, 03:23:36 AM »
isnt there a bit of double counting there?

Yes I think so..........

I'm fucking confused as Arby, Leto and Warnock I think would have been Moores signings/sold in the January and the Yanks took over in the February...........

So the Yanks net spend is 31.5m in Four seasons

Moores spent 34.0m in two seasons and one Jan Transfer window


Moores with Rafa 5 transfer windows

Yanks with Rafa 7 transfer windows


FUCK ME sideways we have all forgot about 14m man Cisse...........


so if Cisse counts as he did sign in summer 2004

Moores has spent 48m in the 2 and a half seasons

Yanks have spent 31.5m in 4 seasons - 6m Riera = 25.5m


THE YANKS HAVE SPENT HALF OF WHAT FUCKING MOORES DID IN DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF SEASONS


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Offline IfOnlyYouKnew

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #236 on: March 23, 2010, 09:04:19 AM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

He's still a knob.

Offline J-Mc-

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #237 on: March 23, 2010, 11:08:28 AM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

He's still a knob.

bit uncalled for.

Sure he sold us to the yanks but come on, he was a decent owner, always had the club at heart, kept the debt relatively low, gave the manager the transfer funds available and IMO would do anything to buy the club back if he had the money.

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #238 on: March 23, 2010, 12:13:29 PM »
bit uncalled for.

Sure he sold us to the yanks but come on, he was a decent owner, always had the club at heart, kept the debt relatively low, gave the manager the transfer funds available and IMO would do anything to buy the club back if he had the money.

Totally bereft of business acumen though otherwise we wouldn't be in this mess. Doubt that his heart would be in it for repurchase even IF he could afford it.
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Offline J-Mc-

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Re: David Moores
« Reply #239 on: March 23, 2010, 04:18:19 PM »
Totally bereft of business acumen though otherwise we wouldn't be in this mess. Doubt that his heart would be in it for repurchase even IF he could afford it.

but with Purslow/Ayres behind him, wouldn't the club be run better and the stadium be getting built due to lower debt?