Author Topic: John Barnes  (Read 92425 times)

Offline tubby

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #440 on: March 29, 2019, 02:12:24 PM »
Since I wasn't around, was he two-footed similar to what Sadio is? After all, he can score belters with both feet, which is not something I'd associated with many wingers. Did he score plenty of long-range goals as well similar to what Mo did last season? "all goals for Liverpool FC" compilations don't seem to go back longer than the Premier League days on Youtube!

Tubby might have answered that while I wrote it lol...  :wave



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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #441 on: March 29, 2019, 02:33:57 PM »
between 87-91 he was the best player in the league

he must have had about 20 assists a season at times, usually beating the full back to the line and whipping in a cross. He was the best crosser ive probably seen as he could do it at pace too.

Deadball specialist especially with free kicks, he could use two feet, his right foot was pretty underrated as was his heading ability.

off the top of my head he scored a wonderful right foot shot at Ipswich in 1994, there was a good one too at Southampton in 1987, showed in on his supposed weaker foot and he literally passed it in to the goal from about 25 yards. There was another absolute belter in the last minute against Aston Villa in 1990 which crashed in off the bar.

Heading wise, recalling quickly, Millwall in 89, Southampton in 90, United in 97 to name 3

I do wonder at times why full backs and defence didnt do more to stop him reaching the bye line and whipping in a cross. There must be about 30 goals between 87-89 of him doing that to set up Aldridge, i guess Barnes was just brilliant at finding space and I guess to because of his balance, speed, control and skill there was no way to stop it. He seem to run faster when he had the ball.

His speed was good because of his acceleration, over the first 3-5 yards he would leave you for dead.

Injuries from 1991 on slowed him. 1991-2 was really the start of it as i think he only played about 5 games up to March (although one was a hat-trick against Crewe including a right footer at height the top corner and a back heel).

The summer of 1992 he snapped his achilles and to this day he has one leg muscle notably smaller than the other, it killed his acceleration. He didnt play that season until November. Pace wise with Mane there is no contest, Mane would have left a peak John Barnes for dead over 50 yards but maybe diet had to do with it, apparently Barnes would eat either a whole chicken or a big steak before a game as did everyone then, players definitely seem faster now and not having a big belly full of steak im sure helps plus advances in training and technology to help. The game was slower then, believe me today players like Neil Ruddock and Jan Molby in the shape they were in at times wouldnt last 10 minutes before being bombed out.

Which brings me to another point, he slowed down in later years with his weight, someone once said he only had to look at a jaffa cake and he put on half a pound, in 1993-4 he didnt play until november and i remember his first game back the pub was shocked to see him, he looked a good 20 pounds overweight.

i think fans were becoming very frustrated with him at this point as they expected the winger of the early years and his pace was ruined by the injury which probably meant he couldnt train as hard and maybe it flared up and he put on weight when out.

even between 1994-7 fans were frustrated but looking back his game evolved so much at that time, he was actually ahead of him time as he could link the play with defence and attack so well, he rarely gave the ball away and was still a very intelligent ball user (eg the guided finish at southampton in 1996 when Dave Beasant fluffed a clearance and Barnes literally sidefooted it home from about 40 yards)

He got his weight down most of the time and i think between 1994-7 he was a completely different asset to the team and good foil for the younger players like Redknapp and McManaman.

Tremendous ball control and passing, that never left him. Super intelligent player. You would pay mega money for a player like that today.

as for earlier in his career with the amount of assists and goals he had and what he could do it is no exaggeration he could probably get a world record fee if we sold him

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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #442 on: March 29, 2019, 02:42:56 PM »
It was a different game back then, wide players tended to play on the side of their favoured foot, so Barnes was a left winger, he didn't have the option to cut in on his favourite foot like Sadio does now. 

That's true of John, but not true of some of our earlier wingers. Steve Heighway and Peter Thompson tended to play on the 'wrong' wing and both were happy to cut inside.
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Offline tubby

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #443 on: March 29, 2019, 02:45:19 PM »
That's true of John, but not true of some of our earlier wingers. Steve Heighway and Peter Thompson tended to play on the 'wrong' wing and both were happy to cut inside.

Those guys were before my time, mid-80s onwards for me.  Barnes could've played anywhere across the front, really.  Either side, as a 10 or even up top as a quasi-target man because he was so strong for someone so nimble.
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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #444 on: March 29, 2019, 04:01:34 PM »
Since I wasn't around, was he two-footed similar to what Sadio is? After all, he can score belters with both feet, which is not something I'd associated with many wingers. Did he score plenty of long-range goals as well similar to what Mo did last season? "all goals for Liverpool FC" compilations don't seem to go back longer than the Premier League days on Youtube!

Tubby might have answered that while I wrote it lol...  :wave

Mix of right and left foot goals, the one at Woodison was special.

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Offline Raaphael

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #445 on: March 29, 2019, 04:12:26 PM »
Underrated in every way. And probably the smartest footballer player I`ve heard.

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #446 on: March 29, 2019, 04:24:16 PM »


Wrong foot.

I was at that game I think. Late August 90/91 I think.

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #447 on: March 29, 2019, 08:14:36 PM »
For you old-timers, I was born in 1991 so never saw him play. I've gotten the impression though, that he was very similar to Sadio in terms of style of play more than a standard wideman as in an inside forward with great tenacity? Is that correct?

Absolute legend though. Best player in his position England has had since colour TV came around.

I saw him live on numerous occasions in a red shirt but the stand out moment strangely was the one and only time I saw England at Wembley, late 80's, in a game against Poland when although he wasn't at his best, he had the that star quality where as soon as he received the ball there was almost a gasp from the crowd in expectation of what might happen. These were neutrals sprinkled in with Scouse haters remember. Digger had stardust sprinkled on his boots.

I went to the ground several times in his swansong when he played a more withdrawn role and everything seemed to go through him. Quick passes, him in the centre pinged around until some space opened up. A highly intelligent footballer, I was so disappointed his managerial career never took off.

Keegan was my childhood hero, Kenny became my true hero but there is the softest of softest spots for Digger.

Offline Linudden

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #448 on: March 29, 2019, 08:28:44 PM »
So essentially, he took the same path as Giggs to extend his career in the middle of the park because of injuries and not really because of age, that's interesting.

How many "Maxi/Kuyt" goals did he score then? Relying on movement into the box from out wide? Also, would you say that Beardsley resembled Firmino a bit back then? Did he play as a deep-lying striker while Aldridge/Rush playing solely as Sturridge-esque poachers?

Offline Sangria

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #449 on: April 1, 2019, 01:25:31 PM »
between 87-91 he was the best player in the league

he must have had about 20 assists a season at times, usually beating the full back to the line and whipping in a cross. He was the best crosser ive probably seen as he could do it at pace too.

Deadball specialist especially with free kicks, he could use two feet, his right foot was pretty underrated as was his heading ability.

off the top of my head he scored a wonderful right foot shot at Ipswich in 1994, there was a good one too at Southampton in 1987, showed in on his supposed weaker foot and he literally passed it in to the goal from about 25 yards. There was another absolute belter in the last minute against Aston Villa in 1990 which crashed in off the bar.

Heading wise, recalling quickly, Millwall in 89, Southampton in 90, United in 97 to name 3

I do wonder at times why full backs and defence didnt do more to stop him reaching the bye line and whipping in a cross. There must be about 30 goals between 87-89 of him doing that to set up Aldridge, i guess Barnes was just brilliant at finding space and I guess to because of his balance, speed, control and skill there was no way to stop it. He seem to run faster when he had the ball.

His speed was good because of his acceleration, over the first 3-5 yards he would leave you for dead.

Injuries from 1991 on slowed him. 1991-2 was really the start of it as i think he only played about 5 games up to March (although one was a hat-trick against Crewe including a right footer at height the top corner and a back heel).

The summer of 1992 he snapped his achilles and to this day he has one leg muscle notably smaller than the other, it killed his acceleration. He didnt play that season until November. Pace wise with Mane there is no contest, Mane would have left a peak John Barnes for dead over 50 yards but maybe diet had to do with it, apparently Barnes would eat either a whole chicken or a big steak before a game as did everyone then, players definitely seem faster now and not having a big belly full of steak im sure helps plus advances in training and technology to help. The game was slower then, believe me today players like Neil Ruddock and Jan Molby in the shape they were in at times wouldnt last 10 minutes before being bombed out.

Which brings me to another point, he slowed down in later years with his weight, someone once said he only had to look at a jaffa cake and he put on half a pound, in 1993-4 he didnt play until november and i remember his first game back the pub was shocked to see him, he looked a good 20 pounds overweight.

i think fans were becoming very frustrated with him at this point as they expected the winger of the early years and his pace was ruined by the injury which probably meant he couldnt train as hard and maybe it flared up and he put on weight when out.

even between 1994-7 fans were frustrated but looking back his game evolved so much at that time, he was actually ahead of him time as he could link the play with defence and attack so well, he rarely gave the ball away and was still a very intelligent ball user (eg the guided finish at southampton in 1996 when Dave Beasant fluffed a clearance and Barnes literally sidefooted it home from about 40 yards)

He got his weight down most of the time and i think between 1994-7 he was a completely different asset to the team and good foil for the younger players like Redknapp and McManaman.

Tremendous ball control and passing, that never left him. Super intelligent player. You would pay mega money for a player like that today.

as for earlier in his career with the amount of assists and goals he had and what he could do it is no exaggeration he could probably get a world record fee if we sold him

Heading wise I remember his goal against Aston Villa in the FA Cup in 87-88, the game where we wore white shirts and red shorts (can't remember too many other occasions with that combo). A pretty rubbish cross from the right (from Houghton?) that went behind Barnes, but he dived backwards and somehow got good contact on it into the far corner. One of the most technically astounding headers I've seen.

And why did defenders let Barnes go down the wing so often? Well, when Barnes went he usually gave the ball to Beardsley first. The FB is already wrong footed from facing up the pitch, and Beardsley is looking at the exact right area and exact right weight of pass to release Barnes who is sprinting unencumbered by having to control the ball or worrying about the defender getting a foot in. Barnes was pretty quick in his winger days as well, able to outsprint most defenders even when they're facing the right way.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #450 on: April 1, 2019, 01:31:36 PM »
So essentially, he took the same path as Giggs to extend his career in the middle of the park because of injuries and not really because of age, that's interesting.

How many "Maxi/Kuyt" goals did he score then? Relying on movement into the box from out wide? Also, would you say that Beardsley resembled Firmino a bit back then? Did he play as a deep-lying striker while Aldridge/Rush playing solely as Sturridge-esque poachers?

Think of Beardsley as a Benayoun-ish kind of dribbler but with the vision and decision making of the best classic no.10s you've seen and you've got him in a nutshell. And he wasn't even the best attacker in the team.
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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #451 on: April 1, 2019, 01:39:19 PM »

For 3 or 4 seasons he was the best player in the league, almost unstoppable. I remember one night game against United & they couldnt handle him, so they took turns trying to hack him out of the game. He had that sublime gliding style that was faster than it looked.

After the achilles injury he was never the same and developed into a central midfielder, the type of which I think we had too many; Molby in decline, Ronny Whelan, an emerging Jamie Redknapp even. Short passing that annoyed a few if memory serves, simply because he could never go back to what he was. Gini (who has more pace than Barnes then) kinds reminds me of him in that phase.
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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #452 on: April 1, 2019, 02:26:40 PM »
Heading wise I remember his goal against Aston Villa in the FA Cup in 87-88, the game where we wore white shirts and red shorts (can't remember too many other occasions with that combo). A pretty rubbish cross from the right (from Houghton?) that went behind Barnes, but he dived backwards and somehow got good contact on it into the far corner. One of the most technically astounding headers I've seen.

And why did defenders let Barnes go down the wing so often? Well, when Barnes went he usually gave the ball to Beardsley first. The FB is already wrong footed from facing up the pitch, and Beardsley is looking at the exact right area and exact right weight of pass to release Barnes who is sprinting unencumbered by having to control the ball or worrying about the defender getting a foot in. Barnes was pretty quick in his winger days as well, able to outsprint most defenders even when they're facing the right way.
i dont know how i left that villa goal out, it was amazing, i love that goal and a good point by you in that he made the cross from Ray Houghton look good. there is an excellent view of that goal from behind the goal.

i meant to type it in my original post there and i guess it slipped my mind somehow
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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #453 on: April 1, 2019, 02:57:53 PM »
i dont know how i left that villa goal out, it was amazing, i love that goal and a good point by you in that he made the cross from Ray Houghton look good. there is an excellent view of that goal from behind the goal.

i meant to type it in my original post there and i guess it slipped my mind somehow

Scored a good header in the 4-0 win over United too. Deflected shot that had very little pace in it, got a great leap and nodded it low into the far corner.

The Beardsley/Benayoun dribbling style is very apt, same kind of ‘loose’ ankles and hips that they danced over the ball with. Beardsley was obviously a more lethal player though.

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #454 on: April 1, 2019, 03:02:46 PM »
Scored a good header in the 4-0 win over United too. Deflected shot that had very little pace in it, got a great leap and nodded it low into the far corner.

The Beardsley/Benayoun dribbling style is very apt, same kind of ‘loose’ ankles and hips that they danced over the ball with. Beardsley was obviously a more lethal player though.
yeah i just selected a few rather than go through every header he ever scored

theres a youtube clip of his goals that goes on about 45 mins
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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #455 on: April 1, 2019, 03:38:44 PM »
yeah i just selected a few rather than go through every header he ever scored

theres a youtube clip of his goals that goes on about 45 mins

Haha fair point. :D

Offline BobPaisley3

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #456 on: April 1, 2019, 09:42:54 PM »
His free kick against Arsenal in 89-90 at Anfield was brilliant, ‘true Brazilian style’ as Brian Moore referred to it.

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Re: John Barnes
« Reply #458 on: May 21, 2019, 11:23:30 AM »
^ wow that's powerful, he is so wise, a great man.