Author Topic: RAWK Web Development Circle  (Read 50566 times)

Offline Ben S

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #200 on: June 30, 2009, 08:29:34 PM »
Anyone know of an alternative to SQL Yog I can use at home without it running out after 30 days?

Tried Heidi? http://www.heidisql.com/?

Offline Degs

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #201 on: February 14, 2010, 03:56:59 PM »
Resurrecting this.
Start with a cracking TED talk on Bing Maps by Blaise Aguera y Arcas of Microsoft.

http://www.ted.com/talks/blaise_aguera.html

How is everyone getting on?
I'm currently working in VB/ASP/SQL Server at the minute.  Really good once you get into it, I like it much more than the free stuff of php/mySql.

Offline Slick_Beef

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #202 on: February 14, 2010, 04:55:56 PM »
Can't deny, I do like MS SQL server a lot more than using mySQL. I usually end up using the later + PHP to save money however!

At the moment I'm working on a project related to online hotel bookings. The only problem is that the guy I'm working for is breathtakingly stupid, and seems determined to create an online business without having the slightest idea of how websites work. It's been frustrating.

Offline wacko

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #203 on: February 14, 2010, 08:44:47 PM »
Current project is an auto-updated replacement for Claire's ticket window calendar.

Anyone have any experience of the Google App Engine? I'm looking at using that to deploy it. The back-end is more or less finished; I now need to find somewhere to host it and build the corresponding front-end.
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Offline SP

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #204 on: February 14, 2010, 08:54:00 PM »
Can't deny, I do like MS SQL server a lot more than using mySQL. I usually end up using the later + PHP to save money however!

At the moment I'm working on a project related to online hotel bookings. The only problem is that the guy I'm working for is breathtakingly stupid, and seems determined to create an online business without having the slightest idea of how websites work. It's been frustrating.

If I am paying real money, I would rather go for Oracle everytime. But most the time, I go for mySQL - don't get near to the performance limits so it is good enough.

Offline Degs

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #205 on: February 20, 2010, 09:19:17 PM »
Anyone a member of http://dribbble.com/ it's a site where developers can preview each others work but is invite only.

I was looking at developing an iphone app in my spare time, I've fallen under the spell of the Augmented Reality hype, one problem though...I don't have an iPhone  ;D

Offline damian

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #206 on: February 21, 2010, 11:35:38 AM »
so who here is into web development as a hobby career etc?

I'm one of those sad people who works full time as a senior developer, then comes home and does more web development :)

I started off with classic ASP, then moved into ASP.NET with VB.NET, then quickly moved to C# when all the contractors coming into the place I worked used it. Also use javascript/jquery and SQL 2005/2008.

Full-time I develop applications mostly for the NHS (though also some corporate clients). So far I've developed an infection control system, and wasted several months writing documentation (functional and tech specs) for a corporate client who couldn't make their mind up what they wanted, only to back up (though we made a nice sum out of it because my documentation proved they were in the wrong). Now heading up a team developing a huge modular system incorporating many of the applications we've developed to date, which is turning out to be entertaining :)

I also do web development in my spare time to try and pay off the debts, though seem to be getting too much work at the moment and taking up all my time :) I say pay off my debts, it doesn't seem to be working at the moment because the tax man keeps chasing me and on Friday night my laptop packed up on me so had to go and buy a new one yesterday (only to find out my old laptop is now fine, and new laptop is exempt from argos 30 day money back guarantee).
RIP 96 - You'll Never Be Forgotten, You'll Never Walk Alone.

JUSTICE FOR THE 96 - Don't Buy The S*n

Offline Degs

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #207 on: February 21, 2010, 11:40:34 AM »
I'm one of those sad people who works full time as a senior developer, then comes home and does more web development :)

I started off with classic ASP, then moved into ASP.NET with VB.NET, then quickly moved to C# when all the contractors coming into the place I worked used it. Also use javascript/jquery and SQL 2005/2008.

Full-time I develop applications mostly for the NHS (though also some corporate clients). So far I've developed an infection control system, and wasted several months writing documentation (functional and tech specs) for a corporate client who couldn't make their mind up what they wanted, only to back up (though we made a nice sum out of it because my documentation proved they were in the wrong). Now heading up a team developing a huge modular system incorporating many of the applications we've developed to date, which is turning out to be entertaining :)

I also do web development in my spare time to try and pay off the debts, though seem to be getting too much work at the moment and taking up all my time :) I say pay off my debts, it doesn't seem to be working at the moment because the tax man keeps chasing me and on Friday night my laptop packed up on me so had to go and buy a new one yesterday (only to find out my old laptop is now fine, and new laptop is exempt from argos 30 day money back guarantee).
Genuine question.
If you were starting over again and had the security of a roof over your head (e.g. parents) would you do it differently and start your own company?

I've never worked for myself and in my first job is where I learnt about 90% of everything I know (not University) but thinking about it now I'm regretting advice I didn't take at the time which was if I was in your position I'd leave and start my own business.  When you're in your first job though you just want to make money and set your life up.

It's always in the back of my mind to take the plunge though.

Offline BrettD

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #208 on: February 21, 2010, 12:48:39 PM »
I'm a Senior (Web) Developer as well - C#, SQL, jQuery, the usual .net stuff and I also do a bit of freelancing. I find it really difficult to carry on developing at home after I've done it all day at work. I've done a few decent pieces of work as a freelancer and I'd love to start my own company but having a regular income comparable to my wages at work (which are pretty good) obviously isn't guaranteed. That's what's put me off in the past. I've only just had a baby as well (11th Feb) which means I have other priorities!

Offline damian

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #209 on: February 22, 2010, 06:52:06 PM »
Genuine question.
If you were starting over again and had the security of a roof over your head (e.g. parents) would you do it differently and start your own company?

I've never worked for myself and in my first job is where I learnt about 90% of everything I know (not University) but thinking about it now I'm regretting advice I didn't take at the time which was if I was in your position I'd leave and start my own business.  When you're in your first job though you just want to make money and set your life up.

It's always in the back of my mind to take the plunge though.

I keep wanting to start my own company now, but not sure I'd have done it when just starting out (well, not sure it would be a good idea anyway).  My first job wasn't great to be honest, small recruitment consultancy with just my boss and myself working there. I was never really given any challenges, I'd find out how to do something new and would try and implement it, but was never told "we need you to this, go and learn how".

I then moved to an e-learning company where that all changed. I've had numerous jobs, at each learning other ways to do things, and it's helped a lot. If I worked on my own from the start I'm not sure I'd have learned half of what I have.

I think now with over 10 years experience it would be a good time to take the plunge. Unfortunately I have no capital, and I don't think any bank would give a loan unless I have something to put in as well (why should they take a risk if I'm not taking any). In my mind I would be taking a huge risk, coming out of an almost £40k job into something where I'm not guaranteed an income, with a family to look after, but not sure they'd accept that as a risk. I rent my house, so can't even say I'm risking losing that (and not sure they'd take my 9 year old vectra as security :)).

So looks like I'll have to continue working for the time being and see how I get on in a few years. This is probably the best way for now anyway, salary pays the bills, any extra I get can go on the debts.
RIP 96 - You'll Never Be Forgotten, You'll Never Walk Alone.

JUSTICE FOR THE 96 - Don't Buy The S*n

Offline damian

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #210 on: February 22, 2010, 06:59:13 PM »
I'm a Senior (Web) Developer as well - C#, SQL, jQuery, the usual .net stuff and I also do a bit of freelancing. I find it really difficult to carry on developing at home after I've done it all day at work. I've done a few decent pieces of work as a freelancer and I'd love to start my own company but having a regular income comparable to my wages at work (which are pretty good) obviously isn't guaranteed. That's what's put me off in the past. I've only just had a baby as well (11th Feb) which means I have other priorities!

Congrats on the baby - our second is due in June, so I'll have to accept minimal work around then :)

I'm finding it increasingly hard at the moment to be honest. I've currently got some work left to finish off one site (so I can invoice them), a design to complete for another so I can quote them on some work, a functional spec and website to write for another company which will take a couple of months, and then another website lined up for when thats finished. And this is all in my spare time, I'm also trying to concentrate on heading up the project team at work, look after my pregnant wife who has been quite poorly and look after our 4 year old daughter. Quite tiring :)

Oh, and yesterday we went to the mother-in-law's where I was supposedly just fixing her computer for her. Was then told that I was also supposed to be getting requirements for and developing her website for her. To cap it off, she hadn't even thought about what she wanted on her site. I started it after the match was finished, and got it online at about 11pm last night :) I may have cheated ever so slightly with the template though (www.boxedart.com) :)

« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 07:05:22 PM by damian »
RIP 96 - You'll Never Be Forgotten, You'll Never Walk Alone.

JUSTICE FOR THE 96 - Don't Buy The S*n

Offline Degs

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #211 on: February 22, 2010, 07:19:13 PM »
I keep wanting to start my own company now, but not sure I'd have done it when just starting out (well, not sure it would be a good idea anyway).  My first job wasn't great to be honest, small recruitment consultancy with just my boss and myself working there. I was never really given any challenges, I'd find out how to do something new and would try and implement it, but was never told "we need you to this, go and learn how".

I then moved to an e-learning company where that all changed. I've had numerous jobs, at each learning other ways to do things, and it's helped a lot. If I worked on my own from the start I'm not sure I'd have learned half of what I have.

I think now with over 10 years experience it would be a good time to take the plunge. Unfortunately I have no capital, and I don't think any bank would give a loan unless I have something to put in as well (why should they take a risk if I'm not taking any). In my mind I would be taking a huge risk, coming out of an almost £40k job into something where I'm not guaranteed an income, with a family to look after, but not sure they'd accept that as a risk. I rent my house, so can't even say I'm risking losing that (and not sure they'd take my 9 year old vectra as security :)).

So looks like I'll have to continue working for the time being and see how I get on in a few years. This is probably the best way for now anyway, salary pays the bills, any extra I get can go on the debts.
I'm not long on the ladder but already on my 2nd job and already thinking that the time when I had no risk to start a company has gone.

Oh and if you're on 40k a year get a new car, 9 year old vectra my arse.

Offline damian

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #212 on: February 22, 2010, 07:51:25 PM »
I'm not long on the ladder but already on my 2nd job and already thinking that the time when I had no risk to start a company has gone.

Oh and if you're on 40k a year get a new car, 9 year old vectra my arse.

Wish I could, keep finding more and more rust poking through :) Unfortunately I was stupid 10 years ago and took out a graduate loan to add to my already growing debts (student loans etc.). First job went tits up - company was struggling a bit after 9/11 as a lot of blue chips stopped recruiting for a while (we dealt with mainly blue chip companies) and I had my hours and salary cut in half, so couldn't pay the full amounts, payment protection kicked in but when I got my next job they decided they wanted double my original repayments. Took out consolodation loans, started going downhill, now got a CCJ to my name and big debts. So although at the moment I've got a bit of money left at the end of each month (enough to buy a nice car), I can't get credit, so am stuck with the crappy car. So will have to save for a while.
RIP 96 - You'll Never Be Forgotten, You'll Never Walk Alone.

JUSTICE FOR THE 96 - Don't Buy The S*n

Offline Degs

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #213 on: February 22, 2010, 09:34:33 PM »
Wish I could, keep finding more and more rust poking through :) Unfortunately I was stupid 10 years ago and took out a graduate loan to add to my already growing debts (student loans etc.). First job went tits up - company was struggling a bit after 9/11 as a lot of blue chips stopped recruiting for a while (we dealt with mainly blue chip companies) and I had my hours and salary cut in half, so couldn't pay the full amounts, payment protection kicked in but when I got my next job they decided they wanted double my original repayments. Took out consolodation loans, started going downhill, now got a CCJ to my name and big debts. So although at the moment I've got a bit of money left at the end of each month (enough to buy a nice car), I can't get credit, so am stuck with the crappy car. So will have to save for a while.
fucking hell unlucky mate, at least it's all right now.
I worked out the other day that at the rate I pay now, about 7 quid a week, I've only got 19 yeas left to pay off my loan.

Offline damian

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #214 on: February 22, 2010, 10:00:01 PM »
fucking hell unlucky mate, at least it's all right now.
I worked out the other day that at the rate I pay now, about 7 quid a week, I've only got 19 yeas left to pay off my loan.

Depressing isn't it? I'm paying £120 per month at the moment towards my debts, going to take about 20 years!! Student Loans refuse to stop the interest so at the moment it appears that I'm only paying about £2 per month to them after interest, hence the 20 years. If I wasn't going through a debt management company I'd just tell them that they're not getting another penny until they stop the interest.

Hopefully the way things are going on the web design front though I'll be able to start paying people off in chunks. A colleague at work seems to have a lot of contacts and keeps finding me websites to do, getting so busy at the moment I could probably turn it into a full-time job. The next site I'm developing is going to have quite a lot of publicity it seems when it launches, with the local press being there and possibly TV, so might get me more work. 
RIP 96 - You'll Never Be Forgotten, You'll Never Walk Alone.

JUSTICE FOR THE 96 - Don't Buy The S*n

Offline wacko

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #215 on: February 26, 2010, 07:11:38 PM »
I'm a freelancer. Have been for years. It's great being your own boss.

I don't worry about job security, because I have several clients. In a way, my job is more secure than other people's.

My income does fluctuate wildly on a month-to-month basis, but is pretty stable year-on-year.

I don't understand why you need a big loan. Surely, your only significant cost is paying yourself? You can work from home, and already have a computer.
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Offline damian

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #216 on: February 26, 2010, 09:42:47 PM »
I'm a freelancer. Have been for years. It's great being your own boss.

I don't worry about job security, because I have several clients. In a way, my job is more secure than other people's.

My income does fluctuate wildly on a month-to-month basis, but is pretty stable year-on-year.

I don't understand why you need a big loan. Surely, your only significant cost is paying yourself? You can work from home, and already have a computer.

The only loan I would want is to pay my salary for a year or so until it's up and running, just to guarantee that I'm getting something in to keep food on the table.

I'm the same with clients though, I've got a few that I'm fairly confident of getting regular work from. For example I sent a new design to an existing client last night to see if he would be interested in an upgrade, got an email back today accepting it. Keep offering another client new functionality for their website and they don't even take time to think, just go for it.

I've also got a number of contacts (including a project manager at work) who keep finding other work for me to do in my spare time - about to start development on a website for one of his friends, then got another one lined up for when that one finishes. Will probably then be working on upgrading the one I mentioned above, so looks like I've got enough to keep me going for a good 4 months ahead.

In fact, the more I type, the more I think it's a good idea to just take the plunge :)  If work starts to dry up, I could just go contracting for a while.
RIP 96 - You'll Never Be Forgotten, You'll Never Walk Alone.

JUSTICE FOR THE 96 - Don't Buy The S*n

Offline Claire.

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #217 on: February 28, 2010, 10:20:32 PM »
Could earn enough contracting for 3 months to keep you going working freelance for the next 6 depending on where you're based. Every contractor I know who's London based earns a fuckin mint.

Offline wacko

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #218 on: March 1, 2010, 03:56:20 PM »
Could earn enough contracting for 3 months to keep you going working freelance for the next 6 depending on where you're based. Every contractor I know who's London based earns a fuckin mint.
What's the difference between contracting and freelancing? Are you just talking about one client vs several at any given time?
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

Offline Claire.

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #219 on: March 1, 2010, 07:26:40 PM »
One client, yeah, most who come to us work a long side the perm staff in the office on specific projects or when we just haven't got enough resource to cover. Earn ridiculous money.

Offline timiano

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #220 on: March 2, 2010, 11:17:00 PM »
One client, yeah, most who come to us work a long side the perm staff in the office on specific projects or when we just haven't got enough resource to cover. Earn ridiculous money.

Might earn ridiculous money, but there's no risk to the company with contract/freelancers. I'd be lost without them.

Offline JohnBarnesBigToe

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #221 on: March 3, 2010, 02:57:33 PM »
Looking for some advice.

Iím in the process of setting up a website, but the only way to make money out of it is through advertising. Could anyone give me a steer on how I go about attracting advertisers?

Also, is there a tool/site anywhere for giving a rough estimate of how much could be earned? (For business plan purposes)

Thanks
"At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it. They are only there to sign the cheques". Bill Shankly

Offline wacko

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #222 on: March 3, 2010, 06:01:18 PM »
Looking for some advice.

Iím in the process of setting up a website, but the only way to make money out of it is through advertising. Could anyone give me a steer on how I go about attracting advertisers?

Also, is there a tool/site anywhere for giving a rough estimate of how much could be earned? (For business plan purposes)

Thanks


Most people just sign up for text ads from Google (or some other purveyor of online advertisements). Actually soliciting their own advertisers is not something most sites do. At least not before they exist and have actual traffic (and hopefully demographic) data to show to prospective advertisers.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.

Offline damian

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #223 on: March 3, 2010, 06:35:50 PM »
Could earn enough contracting for 3 months to keep you going working freelance for the next 6 depending on where you're based. Every contractor I know who's London based earns a fuckin mint.

I went into contracting back in 2005 but it put me off for life :) My wife was pregnant, advised the boss at the interview for a contract job I was going for that I would be unable to travel around July time due to the baby being due, they were happy with that and agreed I wouldn't need to. Time came, they decided I was no good to them if I couldn't travel so ended my contract, leaving me jobless with a new kid to look after. Saying that though, I was travelling to London every day at the time, through Russell Square. First day out of work the bombings occurred in London, suddenly went from feeling quite depressed to feeling pretty damn lucky.
RIP 96 - You'll Never Be Forgotten, You'll Never Walk Alone.

JUSTICE FOR THE 96 - Don't Buy The S*n

Offline JohnBarnesBigToe

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #224 on: March 4, 2010, 09:21:24 AM »
Most people just sign up for text ads from Google (or some other purveyor of online advertisements). Actually soliciting their own advertisers is not something most sites do. At least not before they exist and have actual traffic (and hopefully demographic) data to show to prospective advertisers.

Ta
"At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don't come into it. They are only there to sign the cheques". Bill Shankly

Offline chap114

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #225 on: March 12, 2010, 11:42:57 AM »
Have you ever worked with a product called OpenText LiveLink, more specifically Web Reports?

Offline JimmyGrunt

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #226 on: March 23, 2010, 06:35:25 PM »
I'm currently working for HP at the moment and have been for the last 5 years. My work has mainly been around service delivery. In college we studied HTML (this was end of 2004 ish) and i really enjoyed it.

Ive come to the stage now where i really fancy a change in direction, and like the idea.

Would anyone be willing to provide me some more information in the area of Web Development?

Wheres the best place to start?
What qualifications required?
Are there any really good books for beginners?

I'm still only fairly young (24) and really do fancy a change.

Thanks for any information!!

J
PSN ID = JimmyGrunt


Yea mate just put your sky box on top of the fridge, put an egg in the microwave then wave your satalite dish around on the roof worked for me lad.

Offline JimmyGrunt

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #227 on: March 25, 2010, 10:01:20 PM »
Bump...
PSN ID = JimmyGrunt


Yea mate just put your sky box on top of the fridge, put an egg in the microwave then wave your satalite dish around on the roof worked for me lad.

Offline Claire.

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #228 on: March 25, 2010, 11:00:06 PM »
There aren't really any qualifications required, it's all about proving your skills by building websites. That's the best advice you can get, if you're just starting out, build yourself a site, convince anyone you know who have even the briefest flirtation with the web that you can build them a site.

If you need a starting point get onto w3schools.com - you'll pick up knowledge there and as it's written by W3 it's all good solid foundations. Keep up with current trends and techniques, and as new things come a long, make damn sure you know about them, can talk about them and most importantly can implement them successfully (HTML5 and CSS3 for example). That kind of knowledge and will to self teach will serve you very well at interview.

It's good to get a handle on using something like jQuery or YUI libraries, also.

I wouldn't recommend any books as everything you need to know is online, it's constantly changing and evolving, so get used to learning from the source, go to sites and look at the code. See how things are done, it's the best way to learn imo.

Offline Degs

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #229 on: March 25, 2010, 11:44:12 PM »
Wheres the best place to start?

Firstly it may sound soft but make sure you want web development and not web design, find out the difference between the 2 before you start off because in alot of cases people don't know the difference so just double check it is development and coding you want to get in to.

Brush up on your HTML and learn CSS if you don't know it.  As Claire says w3schools is great but personally I DID use books and still do, there is no set way to learn and each to their own but make lots of test websites and try and be as "real" as possible with them.

Once you have learned the basics of HTML and CSS you would be wise to learn some SQL, the language that databases are written in as the next step up would be to make a dynamic website.  Once you know your SQL then you can move onto scripting languages.  Personally I would say study PHP, it's not the best but is by far and away one of the easiest languages to learn.  After that you can move on to the more complex stuff like ASP and VB etc.

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What qualifications required?

Depends on who is doing the interview.  Your experience is looked at first but the problem is when you have no experience they tend to look at your qualifications and if you don't have a degree you will not be looked on as favourably as somebody who walks in after you and does.  Sorry it's a hard truth.
Like I say though once you get your first job then you might as well throw your qualification away as you won't need it until you go for a top management job and then you'll probably need a masters.

You could hit lucky though and find a company that cares more for your work than your qualifications.  I've found this to be the case with small firms.  So make sure you have a good portfolio, online and paper, that looks professional and can wow them.  This will get you the job, not turning up empty handed.

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Are there any really good books for beginners?

I like the Sams: In 24 Hours series but you have to go through a range of books to find the style that suits you. 
For Dummies, O'Reilly, etc. there is no right or wrong book but you'll find one you like.

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I'm still only fairly young (24) and really do fancy a change.

I'm 24 next month and enjoy my job.  I won't kid though it's massively stressful and challenging but having had a job during my student days packing letters into envelopes for 8 hours a day, I like the fact my brain is getting a tested everyday.

As with any new hobby/skill etc. the old advice never changes. Nobody is going to do the work for you, it's not quick to learn, and ultimately it's not easy to do but it is rewarding once you do get the hang of it, especially in the old financial sense  ;D

Offline damian

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #230 on: March 28, 2010, 10:46:31 AM »
Would anyone be willing to provide me some more information in the area of Web Development?

Wheres the best place to start?
What qualifications required?
Are there any really good books for beginners?

I'm still only fairly young (24) and really do fancy a change.

Thanks for any information!!

J

As someone said above, qualifications depend on the company you go to. I studied for 6 years towards getting my degree, was then told by my first employer after getting my degree that he didn't care if I had a degree or not. Great, thanks, all this debt for nothing. But then other employers since then specified that applicants must have a degree.

I think I may have said it on here before, but I helped my brother-in-law get into web development from his previous job of food and drinks manager at a hotel chain.

I helped him for a while with basic html so that he could build some simple static websites, this gave him a good understanding on structuring the site. I then loaned him a book of mine on Classic ASP (I say loaned, I never got it back :)), and he started building an intranet site (basically a website internal to the company) for his hotel, with a lot of advice from me on the way as to why he was getting errors etc. A couple of years later he's working for a web development firm in London, and has doubled his salary.

So my advice would be what someone above said, get yourselves some books or do some research online and build yourself a website, preferably one that's connected to a database of some kind (I'd recommend SQL Server (you can get a free version of this, do a search on google for SQL 2008 Express), though something like Microsoft Access should be sufficient to start with). The books I used were the "SAMS Teach Yourself ?? in 21 Days" kind of books, well structured step by step guides. Once you've built a website or two, you need to get it/them hosted online somewhere (plenty of places online, or drop me a PM as I have a dedicated server myself that I host on), then put the web addresses on your CV so that potential employers can view those websites.

Just remember us on here when you're rich ;) My brother in law seems to have forgotten how he got where he is, calls occasionally if he wants something, or has had a promotion and wants to show off, but that's about it. He's so full of self importance that he now thinks he can tell me what to do with the dedicated server we share. He even took my name off an online gaming website I built for him years ago, claiming that he had re-written it all (was written in ASP.NET, but for some odd reason he decided it would be a good idea to re-write it in classic ASP). However, was still my design, built on the base of my code, and linked to the database I built. I made sure he put my name straight back on there :) (he claimed he took it off in case he'd cocked anything up and didn't want these cockups to be attributed to me ??? )

« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 10:49:22 AM by damian »
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Offline JimmyGrunt

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #231 on: April 12, 2010, 02:29:39 PM »
Degs & Damian, you absolute legends.

I only now very basic HTML at the moment and i'm under no illusions of how hard it will be to master the other languages. This is something that i really want to do though and i think that i could be really good at it.

My dad has his own business and he's interested in getting a website (will only be small and basic), however it will be a start.

Damian, thats what i was thinking too, i know people myself that have been to uni (not just within the IT area) and come out with really good qualifications, and are now working in Tesco's etc.

At a wild guess, how long do you think it would take for me to get to the stage where companys would look it hiring me, and would they hire somebody based off the previous sites they've built etc?

The other thing which i think will be really hard is learning the language of the servers, as i'm not really going to have access to 'teach myself'. Or am i?

Thanks alot for the info you two, much, much appreciated.
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Offline SP

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #232 on: April 12, 2010, 03:21:46 PM »
You can install a LAMP or WAMP environment on whatever hardware you currently have. The server side should not be an issue.

I am guessing that you are more interested in the development rather than the designer side of Web Development. For the designer side I would recommend a trip to academia.

To start with, I would recommend using something like WordPress (the open source package, not the blogging site). It allows you to create a fully functioning site relatively painlessly. The themes and plugins system allows almost complete customisation. You can then hone your skills by customising. For WordPress you'll use PHP, JavaScript and HTML.

 

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #233 on: April 12, 2010, 03:30:42 PM »
You can install a LAMP or WAMP environment on whatever hardware you currently have. The server side should not be an issue.

I am guessing that you are more interested in the development rather than the designer side of Web Development. For the designer side I would recommend a trip to academia.

To start with, I would recommend using something like WordPress (the open source package, not the blogging site). It allows you to create a fully functioning site relatively painlessly. The themes and plugins system allows almost complete customisation. You can then hone your skills by customising. For WordPress you'll use PHP, JavaScript and HTML.

 

SP,

Yes i want to enter web development rather than design.

Thanks very much for your help, its good to have contact with people who are actually in the industry, i know a few people that do various different roles within IT, but none in Web Development.

I can see me being in this thread alot.

I'm going to read it start to end again now.

thanks again.
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Yea mate just put your sky box on top of the fridge, put an egg in the microwave then wave your satalite dish around on the roof worked for me lad.

Offline wacko

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #234 on: April 12, 2010, 03:52:40 PM »
You can install a LAMP or WAMP environment on whatever hardware you currently have. The server side should not be an issue.

I am guessing that you are more interested in the development rather than the designer side of Web Development. For the designer side I would recommend a trip to academia.

To start with, I would recommend using something like WordPress (the open source package, not the blogging site). It allows you to create a fully functioning site relatively painlessly. The themes and plugins system allows almost complete customisation. You can then hone your skills by customising. For WordPress you'll use PHP, JavaScript and HTML.

 

Seconded. Almost everyone uses some framework or another for all but the most basic of sites. PHP is a good-ish place to start, as you can usually use it with any hosting package. Other stuff's more expensive to host. A framework gives you a massive leg-up, as it takes away a lot of the tricky (esp. security) and repetitive stuff.

PHP's ease of use has its drawback, though: there's an AWFUL lot of very bad PHP code out there, so you have to be careful whose advice you follow. Personally, I think it's a godawful language (though I don't know version 5), but it's still the best bet for smaller sites.
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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #235 on: April 12, 2010, 03:58:39 PM »
PHP's ease of use has its drawback, though: there's an AWFUL lot of very bad PHP code out there, so you have to be careful whose advice you follow. Personally, I think it's a godawful language (though I don't know version 5), but it's still the best bet for smaller sites.

PHP is nice in a controlled development environment. Let someone with a little knowledge loose on it and you have a support nightmare. But the same is true of virtually any language, it's just the ubiquity of PHP means that there are far more monkeys abusing it.

Offline wacko

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #236 on: April 12, 2010, 05:09:25 PM »
PHP is nice in a controlled development environment.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. I'm pretty sure I disagree: I'd say it's an unholy mess.

Let someone with a little knowledge loose on it and you have a support nightmare.

True. Especially with web development, where secure code is so much more important that with desktop apps.

But the same is true of virtually any language, it's just the ubiquity of PHP means that there are far more monkeys abusing it.

Not sure I agree. You can certainly make a big bollocks with any language, but I believe the ability to embed PHP directly in HTML pages positively encourages rotten design and copy-and-paste coding, and makes a framework an option rather than the only obvious way to go (as with Python, Ruby etc.). No-one wants to deal with unpacking all the cookie, GET/POST and HTTP vars, URL routing etc. by hand, so you grab a framework. And they normally take care of really important things that are easy and dangerous to cock up like user authentication. PHP just takes care of the webserver-script interface, and gives you practically nothing beyond that.

I've never seen any Python or Ruby code (don't understand Perl) anywhere near as demented as some of the PHP out there. I remember once reading a PHP tutorial for a login system that "worked" by setting a cookie to admin=1 if username/password checked out! To make matters worse, PHP in those days just dumped GET, POST and cookie vars straight into the global namespace by default, so adding &admin=1 to the URL got you in.

Nevertheless, there are great CMSes written in PHP, and it's a great place to start by messing with templates and maybe writing a few plugins.
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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #237 on: April 12, 2010, 05:16:06 PM »
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. I'm pretty sure I disagree: I'd say it's an unholy mess.

It's like VB - you can create an unholy mess, but if you structure your code and do it right it's fine.

True. Especially with web development, where secure code is so much more important that with desktop apps.

Not sure I agree. You can certainly make a big bollocks with any language, but I believe the ability to embed PHP directly in HTML pages positively encourages rotten design and copy-and-paste coding, and makes a framework an option rather than the only obvious way to go (as with Python, Ruby etc.). No-one wants to deal with unpacking all the cookie, GET/POST and HTTP vars, URL routing etc. by hand, so you grab a framework. And they normally take care of really important things that are easy and dangerous to cock up like user authentication. PHP just takes care of the webserver-script interface, and gives you practically nothing beyond that.

I've never seen any Python or Ruby code (don't understand Perl) anywhere near as demented as some of the PHP out there. I remember once reading a PHP tutorial for a login system that "worked" by setting a cookie to admin=1 if username/password checked out! To make matters worse, PHP in those days just dumped GET, POST and cookie vars straight into the global namespace by default, so adding &admin=1 to the URL got you in.

Nevertheless, there are great CMSes written in PHP, and it's a great place to start by messing with templates and maybe writing a few plugins.

You've got the wrong viewpoint. HTML is embedded in your PHP pages. I have seen some lovely OO PHP code that is a dream to follow. PHP is easy to write, but quite tricky to write well. Unfortunately, most of the online tutorials I have seen don't produce very good code. But you need to really screw up a PHP project to appreciate good coding.

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #238 on: April 12, 2010, 06:12:53 PM »
It's like VB - you can create an unholy mess, but if you structure your code and do it right it's fine.

You've got the wrong viewpoint. HTML is embedded in your PHP pages.

I know technically you embed HTML in PHP pages, and I understand that this is the right way to look at it, but for all practical appearances, you're embedding PHP in an HTML file with a .php extension. PHP code is embedded in HTML because it's surrounded by the <?php ?> escape tags, just like JavaScript and CSS are embedded in HTML via style and script tags. Therefore, it encourages the same kind of mixing stuff up (what's the opposite of "separation of concerns"?) that CSS and JS do. It also encourages you to think of PHP websites like HTML websites, and follow the same structure.

I have seen some lovely OO PHP code that is a dream to follow. PHP is easy to write, but quite tricky to write well. Unfortunately, most of the online tutorials I have seen don't produce very good code. But you need to really screw up a PHP project to appreciate good coding.

That's kind of my point: PHP positively encourages bad coding practices by its very nature, just as Perl is a great enabler of unreadable code, and Ruby lends itself wonderfully to messing with the language's internals. I suppose this is just another version of the static-vs-dynamic-typing argument (i.e. how far should a language go in protecting programmers from their own mistakes and help them to do the right thing), but PHP is well on the wrong side of where I'd personally draw the line. A language *shouldn't* make it easy to write bad code, yet difficult to write good code. It should encourage you to write good code, the right way. A web-native language like PHP should have things like form handling and validation baked in, and probably an ORM, too.

Could you point me in the direction of a well-designed PHP app? I'd like to see what well-written PHP looks like. I haven't used PHP seriously for several years, and was a n00b myself back then.
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Offline Degs

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Re: RAWK Web Development Circle
« Reply #239 on: April 12, 2010, 06:54:56 PM »
It's like VB - you can create an unholy mess, but if you structure your code and do it right it's fine.
I learned my trade with PHP and now code near enough every day in VB and to be honest the 2 are worlds apart.
After 2 o 3 lines PHP starts getting out of hand while VB is somewhere between a Python and a PHP, much better structure but still very rigid in what you can and can't do compared to higher level languages.

I'm currently looking at learning IronPython which looks like it could be a big thing in the .NET future.