Topic: The Labour Party (*)

[Danny Boys Dad]

These really are two different parties - how long can they continue this sham marriage?

You could say the same about most political parties, there always a range of views. The Tories have the same issues.

[SP]

You could say the same about most political parties, there always a range of views. The Tories have the same issues.

The Tories have an overriding pragmatism. They understand that to effect any change, they need to gain power. Labour lacks that practical survival skill set, and too many would rather be right and be in opposition than compromise and effect change.

[Libertine]

Curiously for an image of "data" posted on Twitter, it appears to be complete bollocks.  Looking at the data is quite interesting, but it bears little relation to that graphic. 

http://election-data.co.uk/labour-membership-poll-results-2017

Bah, you'd think you could trust a former advisor to Blair/Brown. What's twitter coming to?

[TravisBickle]

You could say the same about most political parties, there always a range of views. The Tories have the same issues.

 When the idiot wing of the Tory Party looked like it might take over, the chief idiot stepped down for the good of the party. So no, they don't have the same issues.

[JohnnoWhite]

Criticise the BBC all you like Johnno, but they do more to hold the government to account than Corbyn and his team does.

Personally I appreciate the BBC more than ever, in the absence of a leader of the opposition

The entire Establishment ( the organs of the mass media - including the BBC ) are demonstrably (and non too covertly either!) anti-Labour. I set no store by the views and postulations of ANY media organ that is diametrically opposed to the best interests of our nation. The Tories KNOW where their bread is best buttered in that they are never averse to barefaced lying to the nation in order to please their ultimate (and very secretive) real masters.

If I were to give them ANY praise at all - excuse me while I rinse my mouth out with soapy water - they are in "nouse" terms (i.e. finagling, lying, cheating to the nth degree) streets ahead of where we, as the mass of the people, can ever hope to be.
Why do I say this? I say it because for as long as the ordinary Joe continues to be duped and conned by the shite he is fed as "news" as delivered by the Murdoch empire, the Mail, the Express, the Telegraph and the list is endless - and while we as a nation continue to swallow it, we will remain oblivious to the stark reality which is that we are gradually being groomed and conditioned to accept it all. This was the ultimate goal of the old Queen Witch herself - expressed in her never to be forgotten mythicised speech TINA. Actually there IS an alternative but it certainly isn't in the Establishment's best interests to allow that possibility to be read and digested is it?

Why are we allowing ourselves progressively to be relegated to a state of stuporous irrelevance? Have we no longer any thinking power, any innate gut feel about wrongs we see, any pride, any bottle such that when we see and feel the pain of being screwed and sidelined, we no longer possess the energy or collective strength of will as a people to articulate our anger and stand up against the dismissive affrontery which is hurled our way like elephant-sized turds on a daily basis?
In short the British people though they might not realise it, are in peril. They are in the midst of a dirty, devious and politically engineered process designed to deliver a total capitulation to the collective power of Capitalism and the pincers are increasingly closing.

[Danny Boys Dad]

When the idiot wing of the Tory Party looked like it might take over, the chief idiot stepped down for the good of the party. So no, they don't have the same issues.

I think the idiot wing is in full control at the moment.

They've always had issues with the pro or anti Europe wings of the Tory party though.

[classycarra]

The entire Establishment ( the organs of the mass media - including the BBC ) are demonstrably (and non too covertly either!) anti-Labour. I set no store by the views and postulations of ANY media organ that is diametrically opposed to the best interests of our nation. The Tories KNOW where their bread is best buttered in that they are never averse to barefaced lying to the nation in order to please their ultimate (and very secretive) real masters.

If I were to give them ANY praise at all - excuse me while I rinse my mouth out with soapy water - they are in "nouse" terms (i.e. finagling, lying, cheating to the nth degree) streets ahead of where we, as the mass of the people, can ever hope to be.
Why do I say this? I say it because for as long as the ordinary Joe continues to be duped and conned by the shite he is fed as "news" as delivered by the Murdoch empire, the Mail, the Express, the Telegraph and the list is endless - and while we as a nation continue to swallow it, we will remain oblivious to the stark reality which is that we are gradually being groomed and conditioned to accept it all. This was the ultimate goal of the old Queen Witch herself - expressed in her never to be forgotten mythicised speech TINA. Actually there IS an alternative but it certainly isn't in the Establishment's best interests to allow that possibility to be read and digested is it?

Why are we allowing ourselves progressively to be relegated to a state of stuporous irrelevance? Have we no longer any thinking power, any innate gut feel about wrongs we see, any pride, any bottle such that when we see and feel the pain of being screwed and sidelined, we no longer possess the energy or collective strength of will as a people to articulate our anger and stand up against the dismissive affrontery which is hurled our way like elephant-sized turds on a daily basis?
In short the British people though they might not realise it, are in peril. They are in the midst of a dirty, devious and politically engineered process designed to deliver a total capitulation to the collective power of Capitalism and the pincers are increasingly closing.

With respect, if you take out all of your emotive language you haven't really addressed anything that I mentioned. As I suggested, the BBC did more to overturn the National Insurance policy than the Labour leadership did.

You may feel the BBC is anti-Labour, but Tories feel it is anti-Tory. I think that's demonstrative. It doesn't exist to be friends with political parties. I may support Labour but that doesn't mean I don't want them scrutinised by the BBC.

One thing I fear with this current secretive and shambolic government, coupled with the idiots and conspiracists leading the Labour party, is that they will realise their shared ire for the BBC and converge on it. I expect they will try to hamper the funding and the remit of the BBC, itself a public service. That would be a disaster for the rest of us.

[filopastry]

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 43% (+3)
LAB: 30% (+1)
LDEM: 13% (-)
UKIP: 6% (-3)
GRN: 4% (-)

(via Ipsos Mori / 10 - 14 Mar)

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

With respect, if you take out all of your emotive language you haven't really addressed anything that I mentioned. As I suggested, the BBC did more to overturn the National Insurance policy than the Labour leadership did.

You may feel the BBC is anti-Labour, but Tories feel it is anti-Tory. I think that's demonstrative. It doesn't exist to be friends with political parties. I may support Labour but that doesn't mean I don't want them scrutinised by the BBC.

One thing I fear with this current secretive and shambolic government, coupled with the idiots and conspiracists leading the Labour party, is that they will realise their shared ire for the BBC and converge on it. I expect they will try to hamper the funding and the remit of the BBC, itself a public service. That would be a disaster for the rest of us.

The Torygraph itself also hammered the Conservatives over the NI raise/u-turn - Corbyn deserves no credit for it.

The BBC is criticised heavily by both sides, which to me means it is doing its job by not sucking up to either of them.
How people can decry the influence of Dacre, Murdoch et al, and then include the BBC in that circle beggars belief. The BBC is the last bastion standing against the corporate mass media controlled by people with vested financial interests, who seek to influence the national thinking - would it be better if we had no national broadcaster - say swap them with Fox? What an improvement that would be.

[JohnnoWhite]

The Torygraph itself also hammered the Conservatives over the NI raise/u-turn - Corbyn deserves no credit for it.

The BBC is criticised heavily by both sides, which to me means it is doing its job by not sucking up to either of them.
How people can decry the influence of Dacre, Murdoch et al, and then include the BBC in that circle beggars belief. The BBC is the last bastion standing against the corporate mass media controlled by people with vested financial interests, who seek to influence the national thinking - would it be better if we had no national broadcaster - say swap them with Fox? What an improvement that would be.

And you can say that without laughing out loud when Kuennsberg is the political editor of BBC News - the most senior position in news broadcasting? Her personal political bias is virtually tangible and almost projects through the screen! How many times has she been cited for it yet still emerged unscathed from the Beeb's subsequent "internal investigations"?
Question Time has arguably become another assiduously-massaged current affairs BBC offering.
Remember this? http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-question-times-right-wing-7183651

I expect there always to be a demonstrated clear balance from our allegedly impartial current affairs reporting and a demonstrated clear balance in the allegedly impartial process for selection of guests appearing on current affairs TV programmes if it's ever to be credible. I'm still expectantly waiting.

[classycarra]

And you can say that without laughing out loud when Kuennsberg is the political editor of BBC News - the most senior position in news broadcasting? Her personal political bias is virtually tangible and almost projects through the screen! How many times has she been cited for it yet still emerged unscathed from the Beeb's subsequent "internal investigations"?
Question Time has arguably become another assiduously-massaged current affairs BBC offering.
Remember this? http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-question-times-right-wing-7183651

I expect there always to be a demonstrated clear balance from our impartial current affairs reporting and a demonstrated clear balance in the impartial selection of guests appearing on current affairs TV programmes if it's ever to be credible. I'm still expectantly waiting.

So that's one minimal error from Kuennsberg, and one Question Time panel? Hardly a damning rap sheet for the last few decades is it?

You equating the BBC with the likes of the Dacre and Murdoch organisations is a personal choice you are making. I hope others recognise the BBC's value and don't take it for granted. Be careful what you wish for.

[Banquo's Ghost]

The entire Establishment ( the organs of the mass media - including the BBC ) are demonstrably (and non too covertly either!) anti-Labour. I set no store by the views and postulations of ANY media organ that is diametrically opposed to the best interests of our nation. The Tories KNOW where their bread is best buttered in that they are never averse to barefaced lying to the nation in order to please their ultimate (and very secretive) real masters.

If I were to give them ANY praise at all - excuse me while I rinse my mouth out with soapy water - they are in "nouse" terms (i.e. finagling, lying, cheating to the nth degree) streets ahead of where we, as the mass of the people, can ever hope to be.
Why do I say this? I say it because for as long as the ordinary Joe continues to be duped and conned by the shite he is fed as "news" as delivered by the Murdoch empire, the Mail, the Express, the Telegraph and the list is endless - and while we as a nation continue to swallow it, we will remain oblivious to the stark reality which is that we are gradually being groomed and conditioned to accept it all. This was the ultimate goal of the old Queen Witch herself - expressed in her never to be forgotten mythicised speech TINA. Actually there IS an alternative but it certainly isn't in the Establishment's best interests to allow that possibility to be read and digested is it?

Why are we allowing ourselves progressively to be relegated to a state of stuporous irrelevance? Have we no longer any thinking power, any innate gut feel about wrongs we see, any pride, any bottle such that when we see and feel the pain of being screwed and sidelined, we no longer possess the energy or collective strength of will as a people to articulate our anger and stand up against the dismissive affrontery which is hurled our way like elephant-sized turds on a daily basis?
In short the British people though they might not realise it, are in peril. They are in the midst of a dirty, devious and politically engineered process designed to deliver a total capitulation to the collective power of Capitalism and the pincers are increasingly closing.

You won't be able to see it, but your utter contempt for the constitution and people of this country is rather telling. I know it breaks the hearts of revolutionaries everywhere, but the people of the United Kingdom are not mindless thralls of the 'Estabishment', yearning to be free. The majority take considered electoral actions, based on their own experiences and needs. It just so happens that they don't agree with the far left on anything substantive. This does not make them stupid.

The electorate needs to be persuaded of the merits of a case. They have in the past, shown themselves perfectly willing to embrace a centre left policy which enables support for the worst off in society while ensuring a pragmatic economic policy. This argument can win power once again.

The Tory government right now has embarked on economic suicide. It has no idea how to deal with this act of astounding self-harm. The Prime Minister has revealed herself to be incapable of managing disparate opinions (or of reading her own manifesto) or diplomacy within the country or without. She is inarticulate at the desptach box. She has just thoroughly humiliated her Chancellor, twice in a week. Her backbencher forced her into a u-turn that leaves a Ł2bn black hole in the budget, against the backdrop of a distastrous Brexit policy and yet more years of grinding austerity that makes Thatcher's regime look like a lottery winner's jamboree.

This government should be absolutely terrified at the prospect of their small majority being forced into a a early general election, in which their record of astounding incompetence should see them almost wiped out as a serious party.

Instead, they are polling at 44%. This is not due to the media, or the stupid people you so despise, but has one cause only. The "stupid" electorate are rather cleverer in recognising sheer incompetence than your narrative gives them credit for.

[SP]

You mean that same Kuenssberg that did far more to reverse the NIC raise than Corbyn did?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/mar/15/david-davis-gives-evidence-to-commons-brexit-committee-politics-live?page=with:block-58c95ed7e4b0a44f61c517f6#block-58c95ed7e4b0a44f61c517f6

[killer-heels]

For me the Corbyn fans now are just as bad as the hardcore Trump fans. There is no shame in wanting Corbyn's policies to succeed and its why many people supported him. There is also a strong case to continue these policies.

But surely everyone has to see the clear path and that is that Corbyn is a completely incompetent leader. There probably isnt a good one in the party now but very few as bad as Corbyn. If there are any as bad then they all reside on the Shadow cabinet.

[JohnnoWhite]

You won't be able to see it, but your utter contempt for the constitution and people of this country is rather telling. I know it breaks the hearts of revolutionaries everywhere, but the people of the United Kingdom are not mindless thralls of the 'Estabishment', yearning to be free. The majority take considered electoral actions, based on their own experiences and needs. It just so happens that they don't agree with the far left on anything substantive. This does not make them stupid.

The electorate needs to be persuaded of the merits of a case. They have in the past, shown themselves perfectly willing to embrace a centre left policy which enables support for the worst off in society while ensuring a pragmatic economic policy. This argument can win power once again.

The Tory government right now has embarked on economic suicide. It has no idea how to deal with this act of astounding self-harm. The Prime Minister has revealed herself to be incapable of managing disparate opinions (or of reading her own manifesto) or diplomacy within the country or without. She is inarticulate at the desptach box. She has just thoroughly humiliated her Chancellor, twice in a week. Her backbencher forced her into a u-turn that leaves a Ł2bn black hole in the budget, against the backdrop of a distastrous Brexit policy and yet more years of grinding austerity that makes Thatcher's regime look like a lottery winner's jamboree.

This government should be absolutely terrified at the prospect of their small majority being forced into a a early general election, in which their record of astounding incompetence should see them almost wiped out as a serious party.

Instead, they are polling at 44%. This is not due to the media, or the stupid people you so despise, but has one cause only. The "stupid" electorate are rather cleverer in recognising sheer incompetence than your narrative gives them credit for.

So that's your take on it is it? Labelling as contemptuous revolutionaries those among us who are sick to the back teeth at how low in the Establishment's estimation our people are regarded? They insult the people at every turn yet according to you, it's these contemptuous revolutionary bastards that are to blame for the nation's ills.

Tell you what, why don't you give yourself a talking to and consider raising the profile of the interminable double standards, double-dealing and double-crossing that are being perpetrated before our very eyes. Our people and our society are seriously at risk as a result of the policies of these callous Tory bastards. Maybe even you might consider stopping fiddling while Rome burns.

[classycarra]

So that's your take on it is it? Labelling as contemptuous revolutionaries those among us who are sick to the back teeth at how low in the Establishment's estimation our people are regarded? They insult the people at every turn yet according to you, it's these contemptuous revolutionary bastards that are to blame for the nation's ills.

Tell you what, why don't you give yourself a talking to and consider raising the profile of the interminable double standards, double-dealing and double-crossing that are being perpetrated before our very eyes. Our people and our society are seriously at risk as a result of the policies of these callous Tory bastards. Maybe even you might consider stopping fiddling while Rome burns.

What fiddling is he doing while Rome burns? You're putting words in his mouth, with extreme inaccuracy.

His issues with the Tories are clear, and well expressed. Suggesting he doesn't think they're a problem is pure dishonesty.

The bit you said that I've highlighted above is exactly why praising the inept Corbyn is playing into the hands of the Tories, and thus harming the country.

As for "insulting the people at every turn", that sounds a little more like you than Banquo's Ghost

[Danny Boys Dad]

You won't be able to see it, but your utter contempt for the constitution and people of this country is rather telling. I know it breaks the hearts of revolutionaries everywhere, but the people of the United Kingdom are not mindless thralls of the 'Estabishment', yearning to be free. The majority take considered electoral actions, based on their own experiences and needs. It just so happens that they don't agree with the far left on anything substantive. This does not make them stupid.

How do you explain the fact that recent polls reveal that a large percentage of this thoughtful and analytical electorate of which you speak thinks that the Tories do a good job on the economy, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary? Or the fact that a large percentage of the electorate thinks that Theresa May is doing a good job? Or the fact that recent research showed that voters agree with Labour policies when shown to them 'blind' but then say that they don't or won't vote Labour?

You can't ignore the influence of the press or the willingness of a large part of the electorate to have their thinking done for them.

[classycarra]

How do you explain the fact that recent polls reveal that a large percentage of this thoughtful and analytical electorate of which you speak thinks that the Tories do a good job on the economy, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary? Or the fact that a large percentage of the electorate thinks that Theresa May is doing a good job? Or the fact that recent research showed that voters agree with Labour policies when shown to them 'blind' but then say that they don't or won't vote Labour?

You can't ignore the influence of the press or the willingness of a large part of the electorate to have their thinking done for them.

It looks like you're ignoring the influence of an evidently incompetent leader. You don't need someone else to think that for you, to reach that conclusion

[Danny Boys Dad]

It looks like you're ignoring the influence of an evidently incompetent leader. You don't need someone else to think that for you, to reach that conclusion

I think some of the respondents were Tory voters, not just Labour or undecided, and I think a similar thing happened under Miliband as well but I could be wrong.

[classycarra]

I think some of the respondents were Tory voters, not just Labour or undecided, and I think a similar thing happened under Miliband as well but I could be wrong.

Sorry, but you can't lecture someone, telling them they "can't ignore the influence of the press", and then ignore overwhelming evidence against Corbyn's ability and credibility as a leader.

[Danny Boys Dad]

Sorry, but you can't lecture someone, telling them they "can't ignore the influence of the press", and then ignore overwhelming evidence against Corbyn's ability and credibility as a leader.

Wasn't aware I was lecturing anyone but there is a lot of hectoring coming from the anti-Corbyn mob on here.

Corbyn's supporters, of which I was one prior to the brexit malarkey but still not as 'anti' as some, would no doubt point to the 'overwhelming evidence' of his two leadership election wins in terms of his credibility and the fact that some of his performances at PMQ's etc haven't been bad at all.

He got caught cold yesterday by the NIC announcement, as was the intention. Could someone else have done better? Very possibly, but let them stand and let's see what happens.

He's got stuff right and stuff wrong but 'overwhelming evidence against Corbyn's ability and credibility'? Depends on your sources I suppose.

[classycarra]

Wasn't aware I was lecturing anyone but there is a lot of hectoring coming from the anti-Corbyn mob on here.

Perhaps lecturing was over the top. Then again, if you're calling people opposed to Corbyn's leadership a mob then maybe I wasn't.

He's got stuff right and stuff wrong but 'overwhelming evidence against Corbyn's ability and credibility'? Depends on your sources I suppose.

I really don't think it does at all.

I'd be very willing to look over any sources of yours that suggest he's got stuff right

[Danny Boys Dad]

I'd be very willing to look over any sources of yours that suggest he's got stuff right

I'll get back to you 

[killer-heels]

Wasn't aware I was lecturing anyone but there is a lot of hectoring coming from the anti-Corbyn mob on here.

Corbyn's supporters, of which I was one prior to the brexit malarkey but still not as 'anti' as some, would no doubt point to the 'overwhelming evidence' of his two leadership election wins in terms of his credibility and the fact that some of his performances at PMQ's etc haven't been bad at all.

He got caught cold yesterday by the NIC announcement, as was the intention. Could someone else have done better? Very possibly, but let them stand and let's see what happens.

He's got stuff right and stuff wrong but 'overwhelming evidence against Corbyn's ability and credibility'? Depends on your sources I suppose.

I also supported Corbyn prior to Brexit but i am sorry there is overwhelming evidence against Corbyn's ability. PMQ's are not that important in the wider sphere but when you have a party against him then its the best way to remove all doubts from your own party faithful and get them on board. He has had 1 or 2 good ones against one of the shittest communicators and weirdest PM's ever but thats it. He has been average to shite in most and i am one of those sad folks that watches them.

Secondly, he has done absolutely nothing. There is no policy for post Brexit Britain, no industrial strategy, no immigration strategy, no fiscal policy, no job creation policy and no future planning whatsoever. All we know from Corbyn is that he will nationalise the railways, not make cuts to things like inheritance tax levels and he will borrow and put that money into the NHS.

At this stage we should have a white paper style document on why the public should be voting for Labour in 2020 and post Brexit. We are not even close to doing that.

All he is doing is protesting. He is not giving anyone an alternative to vote for just that they are not the Tories.

[Danny Boys Dad]

At this stage we should have a white paper style document on why the public should be voting for Labour in 2020 and post Brexit. We are not even close to doing that.

Get stuck in

http://www.policyforum.labour.org.uk/

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Yes I don't always agree with Killer but she sums it up quite well there - what is he offering? There's nothing concrete, nothing tangible, nothing believable.

I want him to succeed. When I heard Labour had elected a left candidate, I was made up. It's nothing to do with his political position per se, and all to do with competence. Judging by the polls I'm not the only one.

Do the Corbyn supporters in here honestly think we all want to sit around hammering the Labour leader? As far as I know, we're pretty much (bar some strange exceptions) all Labour voters from past elections. we want the party to do well, to succeed, to get into power and make a bloody change for the better. But it's not going to be Corbyn that does that, as he has proved incapable of mounting any serious resistance to the Tories.

And anyone decrying the media and saying its them that stop him from getting a fair shake - previous Labour leaders have hardly been given a fair shake either. And yet, some of them managed to get elected. It can be done. Just need someone leading the party who is equipped to deal with the things thrown at them - something Corbyn has proved incapable of, time and time again.

Anyone who watches that Vice documentary should be able to see it plainly. He's out of his depth.

[Millie]

The entire Establishment ( the organs of the mass media - including the BBC ) are demonstrably (and non too covertly either!) anti-Labour. I set no store by the views and postulations of ANY media organ that is diametrically opposed to the best interests of our nation. The Tories KNOW where their bread is best buttered in that they are never averse to barefaced lying to the nation in order to please their ultimate (and very secretive) real masters.

If I were to give them ANY praise at all - excuse me while I rinse my mouth out with soapy water - they are in "nouse" terms (i.e. finagling, lying, cheating to the nth degree) streets ahead of where we, as the mass of the people, can ever hope to be.
Why do I say this? I say it because for as long as the ordinary Joe continues to be duped and conned by the shite he is fed as "news" as delivered by the Murdoch empire, the Mail, the Express, the Telegraph and the list is endless - and while we as a nation continue to swallow it, we will remain oblivious to the stark reality which is that we are gradually being groomed and conditioned to accept it all. This was the ultimate goal of the old Queen Witch herself - expressed in her never to be forgotten mythicised speech TINA. Actually there IS an alternative but it certainly isn't in the Establishment's best interests to allow that possibility to be read and digested is it?

Why are we allowing ourselves progressively to be relegated to a state of stuporous irrelevance? Have we no longer any thinking power, any innate gut feel about wrongs we see, any pride, any bottle such that when we see and feel the pain of being screwed and sidelined, we no longer possess the energy or collective strength of will as a people to articulate our anger and stand up against the dismissive affrontery which is hurled our way like elephant-sized turds on a daily basis?
In short the British people though they might not realise it, are in peril. They are in the midst of a dirty, devious and politically engineered process designed to deliver a total capitulation to the collective power of Capitalism and the pincers are increasingly closing.

You sound like my old Sociology Lecturer

[Danny Boys Dad]

Yes I don't always agree with Killer but she sums it up quite well there - what is he offering? There's nothing concrete, nothing tangible, nothing believable.

This was his speech to conference last September:

http://www.policyforum.labour.org.uk/news/jeremy-corbyn-s-speech-to-annual-conference-2016

And his speech to the NPF in November:

http://www.policyforum.labour.org.uk/news/jeremy-corbyn-s-speech-to-npf-2016

Lots of good stuff in there.

[Red-Soldier]

For me the Corbyn fans now are just as bad as the hardcore Trump fans. There is no shame in wanting Corbyn's policies to succeed and its why many people supported him. There is also a strong case to continue these policies.

But surely everyone has to see the clear path and that is that Corbyn is a completely incompetent leader. There probably isnt a good one in the party now but very few as bad as Corbyn. If there are any as bad then they all reside on the Shadow cabinet.

I'd agree with this, they seem to be oblivious to any fact or evidence presented to them, and just continue their blind devotion.

[Danny Boys Dad]

I'd agree with this, they seem to be oblivious to any fact or evidence presented to them, and just continue their blind devotion.

And his detractors just continue with their hatred of him, blaming him and only him (although you can add his shadow cabinet too as far as some are concerned) for all Labour's ills.

[killer-heels]

This was his speech to conference last September:

http://www.policyforum.labour.org.uk/news/jeremy-corbyn-s-speech-to-annual-conference-2016

And his speech to the NPF in November:

http://www.policyforum.labour.org.uk/news/jeremy-corbyn-s-speech-to-npf-2016

Lots of good stuff in there.

The NPF has no details. Thats completely fine because its a high level speech. But there is no concrete details there but just a wish list. Anyone who says stuff like funding schools and libraries and leaves it as that isnt describing anything.

The role of a party is to offer concrete policies and then communicate them. The wage/income cap was at least a policy to address an issue. People disagreed with it but I was happy to see such specifics and at least it illustrated the intentions of the party.

Watson said in January this year that Labour has no immigration policy for example. How is that possible so long after the Brexit vote? Farmers right now are clamouring for a rural and food policy which will give them an idea how they will access migrant labour and what provisions will be in place if they have tariffs to sell abroad but no tarrifs for products imported from abroad? Will the UK insist on clear labelling for product origins?

I dont just blame Corbyn but the guy has given the next most important jobs to Thornberry, Abbott and McDonnell. Its the worst shadow cabinet line up ever. Its also a party short of a messiah and a load of PLP members who are also pretty shite. Clearly they themselves are hiding and hoping such a messiah appears.

[armchair-fan]

The Tories KNOW where their bread is best buttered in that they are never averse to barefaced lying to the nation in order to please their ultimate (and very secretive) real masters.

I presume you are referring to the lizard people?

[TheShanklyGates]

And his detractors just continue with their hatred of him, blaming him and only him (although you can add his shadow cabinet too as far as some are concerned) for all Labour's ills.

Whether he is to blame for all of Labour's ills is somewhat irrelevant at this point because he sure as hell isn't the answer to the party's problems. He's making things worse and taking Labour hurtling towards electoral oblivion. I was optimistic when he was elected the first time - I agree with a number of his ideas (and disagree with others) but it isn't, broadly speaking, his policies that most people have a problem with. It is that he has demonstrated his incompetence time and time again and I simply don't understand how anyone can still support him doing so will mean an increased Tory majority in 2020.

[Danny Boys Dad]

Whether he is to blame for all of Labour's ills is somewhat irrelevant at this point because he sure as hell isn't the answer to the party's problems. He's making things worse and taking Labour hurtling towards electoral oblivion. I was optimistic when he was elected the first time - I agree with a number of his ideas (and disagree with others) but it isn't, broadly speaking, his policies that most people have a problem with. It is that he has demonstrated his incompetence time and time again and I simply don't understand how anyone can still support him doing so will mean an increased Tory majority in 2020.

I'm in agreement with that but based mainly on the party's position on Brexit. Unfortunately Labour will be seen as being as guilty as the Tories unless they do something soon.

[Wabaloolah]

And his detractors just continue with their hatred of him, blaming him and only him (although you can add his shadow cabinet too as far as some are concerned) for all Labour's ills.

Do you think Labour will win the next election with Corbyn as leader?

[Wabaloolah]

Labour will win nothing with Corbyn as leader and will win nothing by positioning itself too far to the left.  We need to accept that the British public will not vote for that.  They have not voted for a predominantly left wing party with a left wing leadership since 1945, why is that going to change now.

The polls, which always overstate the Labour lead, now have Labour facing meltdown so the position is probably far worse!

[Danny Boys Dad]

Do you think Labour will win the next election with Corbyn as leader?

If the next election is in 2020 I never really expected him to still be leader, I always thought that someone younger and more PR-friendly might come through by then but with the same sort of leanings.

Whether or not Labour with or without Corbyn can win the next election would depend on what happens with Brexit and Labour have allied themselves a bit too closely with the Tories for my liking. If it turns out to be the shitstorm everyone expects then Labour can't point the finger at the Tories and people will remember the three-line whips etc. If it doesn't turn out to be the disaster everyone is expecting then the Tories will take all the credit.

[oldfordie]

The car crash will come during the GE debates, the behaviour of the Tory MPs during PMQT is a disgrace but the GE debates will be brutal. he will face some very hostile members of the public who wont hold back,he will have no place to hide. they will attack his record as Labour leader but the real damage will be his past history. he wont have the backing of a large section of the audience in these debates. his supporters will be in the small minority, it will be a disaster. I believed he would resign after a few months for this reason alone.
Corbyn will probably ignore all the calls for him to resign, the next 3 yrs will bring turmoil. the country will be in a shocking state yet people will tune into the debates and watch this car crash. they will chat about it with their friends at work and in the pub.the conversations wont be complimentary.
In normal circumstances this would be maddening as it would guarantee another Tory government but the situation now is critical, I dread to think what another majority Tory government will do with the excuse of a economic crisis.

[Alan_X]

Well, I think it's fair to say the Labour Party is utterly fucked. The polling data backing up that gif shows a membership totally out of touch with reality and out of touch with the voting public. But the poll itself will be used as proof by his supporters that everything's just dandy.

[JohnnoWhite]

You sound like my old Sociology Lecturer

So did you listen back then?