Author Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE  (Read 2307170 times)

Offline ScandinavianPete

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47720 on: January 15, 2021, 09:45:51 pm »
Think your king (assume your Swedish) has it spot on as to the reason why Swedish government failed in its handling of Covid through its pursuit of herd immunity.

He sadly has a learning and reading disability so I wouldn't take his word for it.

Online Craig 🤔

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 56,804
  • YNWA
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47721 on: January 15, 2021, 09:48:14 pm »
No point piling on Linudden. He's just giving his point of view on it. It's perfectly natural to be sceptical about things if they haven't personally affected you yet, or when it comes to your own person when someone advises you that you should have a needle stuck in your arm and injected with a substance you have no understanding of. There's nothing wrong with that. That'll take time for people to come around to the idea if they think like that. Whenever this thing gradually starts to fuck off, and all the mentalists spitting negative noise fuck off and have egg on their faces, more and more will feel safer and more assured about the vaccines.

Nah, he’s not coming from a “wary” point of view, which is fair. He’s coming from a “I’m OK so fuck the rest”.

So he deserves calling out.

Online ShakaHislop

  • Shocktrooper of the Vinny Cable Nasties
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,603
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47722 on: January 15, 2021, 09:49:58 pm »
Toby Young: Telegraph coronavirus column 'significantly misleading'

Quote
The Daily Telegraph must publish a correction over a "significantly misleading" column written by Toby Young, press regulator Ipso has ruled.

The July 2020 article claimed the common cold could provide "natural immunity" to Covid-19 and London was "probably approaching herd immunity".

But on Thursday Ipso found the paper had "failed to take care not to publish inaccurate and misleading information".

Ipso said the paper "did not accept it has breached the [Editors] Code".

It said the newspaper said that Young's comments on immunity referred to "cross-reactive T-cells" that work to combat the virus.

However, the media watchdog sided with the complainant, James Whitehead, in its decision, who said that while these cells "may lessen the impact of Covid-19" after infection, they "would not confer 'natural immunity'"

The ruling added Young's statement "misrepresented the nature of immunity".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-55676037

Offline Statto Red

  • Hung like a sperm whale but only around the middle. Proud owner of a couple of spare arms, although is pits pong like the bins, not very appeeling......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,628
  • Kloppite
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47723 on: January 15, 2021, 09:51:46 pm »
Nah, he’s not coming from a “wary” point of view, which is fair. He’s coming from a “I’m OK so fuck the rest”.

So he deserves calling out.

He's a troll who needs perma banning, you want to see his luny posts in the F1 thread.

Online Craig 🤔

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 56,804
  • YNWA
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47724 on: January 15, 2021, 09:53:25 pm »
He's a troll who needs perma banning, you want to see his luny posts in the F1 thread.

Seen them mate and totally agree.

Offline Linudden

  • Twpsyn gwirion
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,155
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47725 on: January 15, 2021, 10:09:18 pm »
He's a troll who needs perma banning, you want to see his luny posts in the F1 thread.

 ???

Good night anyway folks and stay safe!

Online afc turkish

  • How long for them sausages? Maggie May's Mythical Turkish Delight. RAWK's Expert Sausage Monster! Oakley Cannonier is fucking boss. Likes blowing his friends? Who nose?!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,285
  • This looks like a nice spot...
    • Flat Back Four
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47726 on: January 15, 2021, 10:10:13 pm »
Let’s just call them fuckwits.  Because they are.

Ignorant, blow hard, opinionated, know nothing fuckwits.

Let's just call them Linudden...

Edit: damn it, Elmo... :D
Since haste quite Schorsch, but Liverpool are genuine fight pigs...

Online TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 78,122
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47727 on: January 15, 2021, 10:12:26 pm »
Let's just call them Linudden...

Edit: damn it, Elmo... :D
No, that’s not fair.  The points weren’t made specifically at him no matter how low an opinion I have of him.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Clint Eastwood

  • The man with no name
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,300
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47728 on: January 15, 2021, 10:25:06 pm »
Yeah good luck to those who choose to have it. If it just has an immunity guaranteed of less than a year I fail to see the point for non-vulnerable ones though. The problem with many people is that they live in a utopia where we can eliminate all deaths and all disease and it's been a large problem leading to the global reaction. When people set an unrealistic goal (say Everton to win the league) when that ain't achieved the blame game starts.

If the vaccine in ten years time saw 99 % of takers still have antibodies, then I'll put my hands up but I won't hold my breath, sadly.
Painful to read these kind of comments when the poster clearly has no idea how vaccines actually eliminate disease.

A vaccine isn’t just a magic power injected in to your body. It’s part of a collaborative effort to drive the amount of virus in circulation until it’s driven out.

Offline Classycara

  • The Left Disonourable Chuntering Member For Scousepool.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,276
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47729 on: January 15, 2021, 10:29:12 pm »
I don't think Linudden's a troll and don't think he should be banned, I just think he struggles to see (or try to see) other people's perspectives and losing his temper a bit when people don't see things the way he does - see for example multiple posts suggesting he's going to stop watching Liverpool, stop watching football, stop watching F1 because of a decision that upset him.

In the same way, he struggles to understand that taking a vaccine (such as the flu jab) even if you aren't concerned for your own health is important because it's putting your community first and putting their needs above your own. Again struggles with the perspective that even though he thinks he'd not be one of the unlucky ones to have covid complications, to the point of calling people in this thread cowards who are living in fear of a virus - but lacks the self awareness to spot that his main justification for not wanting the vaccine is, in his own words, fear.

He also thinks that because he doesn't know or see any 'vulnerable people' (obviously we know he's not capable of visually diagnosing people and only means 'old'), that he doesn't need to try to protect them by getting the vaccine. But that shows he can't put himself in the shoes of the people who work in his office with them, whose contacts he is unaware of and can't control.

I don't think it's trolling, it's just his personality.

Online djahern

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,299
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47730 on: January 15, 2021, 10:31:15 pm »
I might be wrong here and apologise if I am, but I think Linudden has a point. Vaccines, from my understanding, teach the body how to deal with a virus its never encountered before. Now, once everyone classed as vulnerable has been vaccinated to prevent us getting seriously ill in the future, if a non vaccinated person has a healthy immune system that can deal with the virus on its own, then is there any real reason to vaccinate everyone, isn't it better to let the body deal with it if it can? The flu vaccine isn't needed for everyone, just those at risk, yet around 12 million people a year catch the flu. 

The question is valid. The assumptions by Linudden to arrive at the those conclusions are flawed though.

It comes down to transmission versus illness severity and how both are impacted by vaccination. If a vaccine blunts illness severity only with no impact on transmission, then of course only vaccinating those groups prone to serious illness is the correct strategy and then go back to what we were doing in February 2020. You've protected the vulnerable as best you can, not much more you can do unless we want to continue with social distancing - which we don't.

But if the vaccine significantly impacts transmission also, then the best way to protect the vulnerable is to vaccinate everyone after you've vaccinated them. The reason for this is that vaccines aren't protective for 100% of people. So for those vulnerable who it will protect from serious illness, they wont get ill, our mortality numbers will come down and we'll all go back to how we were in February 2020. But the virus will still spread, those vulnerable people who the vaccine didn't protect will get seriously ill and some will die. To protect these people we need to stop chains of transmission. We currently do it by social distancing, we could do it by vaccinating the bulk of the non-vulnerable population.

Vaccinating the vulnerable groups may end up protecting 70% of them from serious illness, vaccinating the remaining population can protect the other 30%. I say 70% because we don't know yet what efficacy this vaccine will have in the real world settings it is being administered (it won't be 90%) Measles was mentioned further down the page - it's always assumed we give the second dose of measles vaccination as a boost - we don't. The second administration is to protect the 8% of people who the first dose didn't work for due to it not being administered properly. That extra 8% makes a huge difference to population immunity for a virus that spreads so easily.

That's a caution not to assume that efficacy of trials will translate exactly to real world settings. We are likely looking at a vaccine that is somewhere between 70-90% effective rather than the numbers that came from the trial. So to protect that remaining 20-30% requires vaccination of everyone else and protects them simply by them not being exposed to the virus. Someone claiming they don't come into contact with the over 75's so vaccination isn't required misses the point about chains of infection. If you pick this up, you will pass it on, and that chain of infection you are a part of and helped (unwittingly) propagate will eventually pass through someone who's over 75, and someone who is vulnerable. Social distancing currently stops us 'youngsters' from being part of those chains and vaccination will stop us being part of them in the future when social distancing has gone.

As measles and mutation was brought up, some interesting things. Measles does mutate, just like other viruses. But it's proteins that it uses to latch onto and invade cells (a bit like to the coronavirus spike protein) are really sensitive to any changes in their structure. If they mutate even a little they can't bind and infect human cells at all. So we assume that measles doesn't mutate when it does - it's just that we never see a mutation in these surface proteins (which the vaccine creates antibodies to) as it would then never pass from person to person.

Offline Classycara

  • The Left Disonourable Chuntering Member For Scousepool.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,276
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47731 on: January 15, 2021, 10:33:08 pm »
Painful to read these kind of comments when the poster clearly has no idea how vaccines actually eliminate disease.

A vaccine isn’t just a magic power injected in to your body. It’s part of a collaborative effort to drive the amount of virus in circulation until it’s driven out.

Yes, embarrasing too.

Imagine referring to public health efforts to eradicate diseases causing millions of death as a "problem".

Luckily the public health world isn't as clouded in ignorance as he is, nor do they see trying to keep people from dying preventable deaths as a "problem".

If they shared in his ignorance and desired inertia (always find it weird that he gets worked up about other people putting effort in), we'd not have eradicated smallpox.

Offline Clint Eastwood

  • The man with no name
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,300
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47732 on: January 15, 2021, 10:46:54 pm »
Yes, embarrasing too.

Imagine referring to public health efforts to eradicate diseases causing millions of death as a "problem".

Luckily the public health world isn't as clouded in ignorance as he is, nor do they see trying to keep people from dying preventable deaths as a "problem".

If they shared in his ignorance and desired inertia (always find it weird that he gets worked up about other people putting effort in), we'd not have eradicated smallpox.
It’s ignorance. He clearly doesn’t fully understand what he’s talking about but he will go with it anyway.

It’s pretty jarring seeing some of the stuff he has said. He needs to walk in to a hospital and see what is going on right now.

Offline So... Howard Phillips

  • Penile Toupé Extender
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,172
  • All I want for Christmas is a half and half scarf
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47733 on: January 15, 2021, 10:56:32 pm »
It’s ignorance. He clearly doesn’t fully understand what he’s talking about but he will go with it anyway.

It’s pretty jarring seeing some of the stuff he has said. He needs to walk in to a hospital and see what is going on right now.

He seems to live in splendid isolation and be a mite anti social, with more than a whiff of some form of Swedish supremacy to boot.


Offline west_london_red

  • Knows his stuff - pull the udder one! RAWK's Dairy Queen.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,246
  • watching me? but whose watching you watching me?
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47734 on: January 15, 2021, 11:19:29 pm »
I don't think Linudden's a troll and don't think he should be banned, I just think he struggles to see (or try to see) other people's perspectives and losing his temper a bit when people don't see things the way he does - see for example multiple posts suggesting he's going to stop watching Liverpool, stop watching football, stop watching F1 because of a decision that upset him.

In the same way, he struggles to understand that taking a vaccine (such as the flu jab) even if you aren't concerned for your own health is important because it's putting your community first and putting their needs above your own. Again struggles with the perspective that even though he thinks he'd not be one of the unlucky ones to have covid complications, to the point of calling people in this thread cowards who are living in fear of a virus - but lacks the self awareness to spot that his main justification for not wanting the vaccine is, in his own words, fear.

He also thinks that because he doesn't know or see any 'vulnerable people' (obviously we know he's not capable of visually diagnosing people and only means 'old'), that he doesn't need to try to protect them by getting the vaccine. But that shows he can't put himself in the shoes of the people who work in his office with them, whose contacts he is unaware of and can't control.

I don't think it's trolling, it's just his personality.

First of all, I agree that Linudden shouldnt be banned, he has a different opinion and he’s entitled to that even if there’s very little to support it. What does piss me off though is that I don’t think he’s stupid and he seems to be at least reasonably educated. I can understand if someone doesn’t understand what’s going on because of a lack of education, not everyone has the same life chances etc and that can impact someone’s ability to understand what’s going on and what needs to be done, but I don’t think that applies to him.

Offline John Higgins

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47735 on: January 15, 2021, 11:58:15 pm »
I’m genuinely staggered that the herd immunity ghouls have the brass neck to post anything on this subject having been proven disastrously wrong at each and every turn.


Offline davidlpool1982

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,421
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47736 on: January 16, 2021, 12:33:58 am »
Accidentally opened up the thread on the first page just now and decided to see what we thought a year ago ( thread started 31st Jan). I hold my hands up and did the "no worse than a flu" crap and didn't think too much would change.

How naive we all were eh?

Offline Son of Spion*

  • "No, I said I was WORKING from home! Me ma's reading this, ya bastids!" Supporter of The Unbrarables. Worratit.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,087
  • RIP Sir Roger.
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47737 on: January 16, 2021, 12:35:48 am »
You're aware that under the formula of three deaths worldwide per second that accounts for 95 million annual deaths per year right? The Spanish flu killed 20 mil in a much less populated world in an equal amount of time.

1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002 were more deadly years per capita in Sweden and 2015 ran identical to 2020. In fact, had it not been for a substantial deficit in total deaths in 2019 it would've looked a lot different last year.

Of course it's bad for those who get a bad case, but it doesn't mean the vast majority of people are at risk. Of course I'd give my kids regular vaccines if I ever had them but that doesn't mean I have to take something largely untested just because RAWK says so. The vaccine should be reserved for those who risk to suffer badly from something and should be effective in protecting them. Not someone who'd merely be a bit under the weather for a few days.

I think everyone has the right to an opinion, and certainly has the right to decide what they do and don't put in their bodies. If an individual does not want to have the vaccine, then that's their business.

I will definitely be having it, and I hope my loved ones do too, but that will be a choice they have to make themselves. My 80 year-old mum is having it tomorrow, and I'm incredibly happy that she is too. That said, I'm not so sure we can just carve up the population into groups we feel will probably get it bad and those who won't. Sadly, people of all ages have died from this horrible disease. Many who were not old, plenty who were otherwise fit and healthy until they contracted Covid. Thing is, none of us can know for sure how our bodies will react to Covid if we get it.

Initially, I was concerned about elderly loved ones getting it and not surviving, but far less worried about getting it myself. Now, after seeing how this has the potential to kill just about anyone, I'm far more worried about contracting it myself. I know a guy younger than I am who got it and was hospitalised for three months and was expected to die. He pulled through, but his health is wrecked and he'll never be the same again. It was almost life ending, and it certainly has been life changing for him, and there are plenty of cases just like his. All I'm saying is that we cannot know beforehand how our systems will react if we get it, and that's why I won't even be chancing it.

There was a 106 year-old lady on the news the other day who survived Covid. There have been young people and people with no apparent underlying conditions who have died of it. Not having the vaccine is a bit like Russian roulette, and fair dos if some decide to take the chance, but that's a risk I'm not personally willing to take. I had genuine Flu about 20 years ago and that almost saw me off, and I was fit and otherwise healthy, so no way will I mess with this virus unprotected.

Most younger, reasonably fit people who decide against the vaccine may well get Covid and just feel under the weather for a short time, but others will get it and die too. Before getting Covid, no one knows which of those two groups they will fall into. If it's the latter, it's too late. Stats are one thing, but every single one of those numbers is a body in the ground, a family devastated. That's tragic when there is no vaccine, but what is it when there actually is a vaccine and the person in the ground refused to take it? I'd find it difficult to get my head around that if it was me lowering my loved one into the ground.
Liverpool FC - Local, Regional, National, International and Global. Probably got fans on Mars too.

We've Seen Things You People Wouldn't Believe...

Offline moondog

  • dot com! Wake him up before he go-gos.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,043
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47738 on: January 16, 2021, 12:45:43 am »
I am type 1 diabetic, my mrs has serious but not outwardly obvious lung damage. You wouldn’t know quite how vulnerable to covid either of us are just by looking. So Linnuden assuming that staying away from old people is all he needs to do is just wrong, it is almost certain that he has friends and colleagues and fellow cyclists who will seriously struggle when he carelessly passes the virus on to them. Glad we won’t run into him but we live in daily terror of some other beaut bringing it to our doorstep. Being vulnerable doesn’t just mean old, just like being old isn’t always vulnerable .

Offline S

  • pineless
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,657
  • Tonight, Tonight
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47739 on: January 16, 2021, 12:58:28 am »
Accidentally opened up the thread on the first page just now and decided to see what we thought a year ago ( thread started 31st Jan). I hold my hands up and did the "no worse than a flu" crap and didn't think too much would change.

How naive we all were eh?
My first post in the thread. In an ever changing pandemic, these morons are the one constant.
I've noticed a general pattern of strange responses online. At least on some of the sites I visit. If you express any kind of genuine concern about the virus and it's ramifications, you're labelled as some delusional conspiracy theorist getting worked into a frenzy. Some people seem to take pride in dismissing it as nothing.

Offline Macphisto80

  • The Picasso of RAWK. But wants to shag Charlie Brooker. Go figure! Wants to hear about bi-curious Shauno's fantasies.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,711
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47740 on: January 16, 2021, 01:50:10 am »
My first post in the thread. In an ever changing pandemic, these morons are the one constant.
Yeah, but the irony is that the ones doing it now have gone full swing and are the ones peddling bonkers conspiracies.

Offline redbyrdz

  • No to sub-optimal passing! Not content with one century this girl does two together
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,774
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47741 on: January 16, 2021, 07:33:12 am »
I think everyone has the right to an opinion, and certainly has the right to decide what they do and don't put in their bodies. If an individual does not want to have the vaccine, then that's their business.

The problem here is that this an infectious disease. If you were talking about something that only affects your health, I agree. But in this case, what you do affects others. If enough people have immunity, either through vaccination or prior infection, we as a society protect the vulnerable. I think we have a moral obligation to do that, irrespective of whether we are happy to accept the risk of serious illness for ourselves.

It's a bit like a form of socialism, we all need to pull in the same direction for the common good. (Maybe that is why the antivaxxers hate it so much?)
"I want to build a team that's invincible, so that they have to send a team from bloody Mars to beat us." - Bill Shankly

Offline Crumble

  • It's rhyming slang
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 747
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47742 on: January 16, 2021, 08:18:03 am »
I think everyone has the right to an opinion, and certainly has the right to decide what they do and don't put in their bodies. If an individual does not want to have the vaccine, then that's their business.

As long as the vaccine has a chance of slowing transmission, which the science says is very likely, I consider it my civic duty to have the vaccine as soon as it is offered to me. My opinion doesn't matter. Break the chain!

Online FlashGordon

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,063
  • RAWK Cheltenham 2021 Champion Tipster*
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47743 on: January 16, 2021, 08:55:55 am »
Accidentally opened up the thread on the first page just now and decided to see what we thought a year ago ( thread started 31st Jan). I hold my hands up and did the "no worse than a flu" crap and didn't think too much would change.

How naive we all were eh?

I was the same at the start. How foolish were we.

Linudden, hasn't the last year taught you a little humility? Obviously not.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline Red_Mist

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,115
  • CORGI registered friend (but not a gas engineer)
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47744 on: January 16, 2021, 09:01:40 am »
I think everyone has the right to an opinion, and certainly has the right to decide what they do and don't put in their bodies. If an individual does not want to have the vaccine, then that's their business.

I will definitely be having it, and I hope my loved ones do too, but that will be a choice they have to make themselves. My 80 year-old mum is having it tomorrow, and I'm incredibly happy that she is too. That said, I'm not so sure we can just carve up the population into groups we feel will probably get it bad and those who won't. Sadly, people of all ages have died from this horrible disease. Many who were not old, plenty who were otherwise fit and healthy until they contracted Covid. Thing is, none of us can know for sure how our bodies will react to Covid if we get it.

Initially, I was concerned about elderly loved ones getting it and not surviving, but far less worried about getting it myself. Now, after seeing how this has the potential to kill just about anyone, I'm far more worried about contracting it myself. I know a guy younger than I am who got it and was hospitalised for three months and was expected to die. He pulled through, but his health is wrecked and he'll never be the same again. It was almost life ending, and it certainly has been life changing for him, and there are plenty of cases just like his. All I'm saying is that we cannot know beforehand how our systems will react if we get it, and that's why I won't even be chancing it.

There was a 106 year-old lady on the news the other day who survived Covid. There have been young people and people with no apparent underlying conditions who have died of it. Not having the vaccine is a bit like Russian roulette, and fair dos if some decide to take the chance, but that's a risk I'm not personally willing to take. I had genuine Flu about 20 years ago and that almost saw me off, and I was fit and otherwise healthy, so no way will I mess with this virus unprotected.

Most younger, reasonably fit people who decide against the vaccine may well get Covid and just feel under the weather for a short time, but others will get it and die too. Before getting Covid, no one knows which of those two groups they will fall into. If it's the latter, it's too late. Stats are one thing, but every single one of those numbers is a body in the ground, a family devastated. That's tragic when there is no vaccine, but what is it when there actually is a vaccine and the person in the ground refused to take it? I'd find it difficult to get my head around that if it was me lowering my loved one into the ground.
That’s a great post and sums up my thoughts exactly on having the vaccine.

I’ve never had the flu vaccine before, but was offered it this winter for the first time, so I had it. It seemed a no brainer partly as there’s some studies that concluded it offers some reduced risk of a bad covid outcome, but also I’ve had a bad flu a few years ago and, whilst it didn’t put me in hospital it did make me very ill, completely out of it for about five days and I don’t want to go through that again, especially if there’s something scientifically designed to reduce the risk that I’m being offered for free 200 yards away at the Pharmacy.

There’s a chance that flu could put a person in hospital, so it’s a person’s duty really to do anything they can to prevent that whilst the nhs is struggling so badly. Also, getting flu and covid together is very dangerous by all accounts.

So yeah, being in the last category it’ll be a few months yet, but I’ll be having the Covid vaccine as well. I don’t personally understand why anyone wouldn’t. As SOS says, if you get Covid and your body reacts badly, IT’S TOO LATE. If you’ve previously refused a vaccine that would’ve prevented the terrifying situation you now find yourself in, then you’d definitely be eligible for a Darwin Award.

Online TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 78,122
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47745 on: January 16, 2021, 09:04:34 am »
I am type 1 diabetic, my mrs has serious but not outwardly obvious lung damage. You wouldn’t know quite how vulnerable to covid either of us are just by looking. So Linnuden assuming that staying away from old people is all he needs to do is just wrong, it is almost certain that he has friends and colleagues and fellow cyclists who will seriously struggle when he carelessly passes the virus on to them. Glad we won’t run into him but we live in daily terror of some other beaut bringing it to our doorstep. Being vulnerable doesn’t just mean old, just like being old isn’t always vulnerable .

Type I diabetic? You’re vulnerable and we’re probably going to die soon anyway.

That’s the logic that these “skeptics”

And I hate the lock down skeptic term.  The scientific skeptical community uses science, logic and reason to show why what we co sides the norm may be wrong.

The lockdown skeptics use half truths, carefully sampled and non representative bits of data, they delete what they got wrong, lie and obfuscate their horrific mistakes last time.

They should just be honest, they should just say that they find the restrictions a real pain and they’d be happy if a couple of hundred thousand more died so they didn’t have to follow them. Because that’s their position.  “Guck then, what about me”.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline didi shamone

  • Too old for fighting
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,024
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47746 on: January 16, 2021, 09:14:54 am »
As long as the vaccine has a chance of slowing transmission, which the science says is very likely, I consider it my civic duty to have the vaccine as soon as it is offered to me. My opinion doesn't matter. Break the chain!

Haven't seen anything to suggest the vaccine slows transmission although I've taken a break from Covid news. I've seen a few articles where scientists suggest it won't.
Either or I'll be relieved when the folks get it.

It's clear after our current debacle in Ireland. You're getting the vaccine or the virus eventually. I know which I choose.

Offline Red_Mist

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,115
  • CORGI registered friend (but not a gas engineer)
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47747 on: January 16, 2021, 09:15:19 am »
One other point. You hear anti-vaxxers saying they’ll rely on their bodies own natural immunity. Well, there was a doctor on tv this week talking about exactly that. Unfortunately, as he pointed out, although yes you do get some immunity if you’ve had a virus (be it flu or covid or whatever) what viruses ALSO do whilst they’re in your body is alter your body’s response by deliberately turning off those immune responses that kept you alive so that long term you’re actually MORE susceptible to a bad response if you’ve had the virus before.

Offline Crumble

  • It's rhyming slang
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 747
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47748 on: January 16, 2021, 09:19:27 am »
Haven't seen anything to suggest the vaccine slows transmission although I've taken a break from Covid news. I've seen a few articles where scientists suggest it won't.

This is a bit of a hot topic at the moment. From the Guardian yesterday:
Quote
As well as analysing the latest data on case numbers and hospitalisations, it is understood ministers are waiting to see Public Health England (PHE) research on the impact the vaccines may have on limiting the spread of the disease. “That’s very important,” one government insider said.

Clinical trials demonstrated the overwhelming efficacy of the vaccines in preventing patients from becoming ill and dying with Covid but did not make clear whether those people could still be vectors for the virus.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/15/uk-nowhere-near-lifting-covid-lockdown-restrictions-vaccine-research-results

Offline moondog

  • dot com! Wake him up before he go-gos.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,043
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47749 on: January 16, 2021, 09:22:16 am »
Type I diabetic? You’re vulnerable and we’re probably going to die soon anyway.

That’s the logic that these “skeptics”


😀

Yeah I have somehow managed to keep myself alive for 20 years with this condition without hospitalisation, probably helped by paying for a Continuous Glucose Monitor system myself because well I like being. But  some young healthy people just see us all as expendable because they don’t want a vaccination that will protect all of society, well boo fucking hoo sorry if your arm hurts for five minutes whilst the human race gets protected.

Offline jillc

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jürgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,978
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47750 on: January 16, 2021, 09:29:44 am »
The problem here is that this an infectious disease. If you were talking about something that only affects your health, I agree. But in this case, what you do affects others. If enough people have immunity, either through vaccination or prior infection, we as a society protect the vulnerable. I think we have a moral obligation to do that, irrespective of whether we are happy to accept the risk of serious illness for ourselves.

It's a bit like a form of socialism, we all need to pull in the same direction for the common good. (Maybe that is why the antivaxxers hate it so much?)

I was about to make exactly the same point.

I had to come back on the train yesterday and was surprised by there being people on the train with no face masks on them, even though its compulsory on Mersey Rail supposedly.
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline fudge

  • RAWK Gaylord
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,798
  • "I'm a swine, its my nature"
    • Fat man dancing
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47751 on: January 16, 2021, 09:41:06 am »
I don't think Linudden's a troll and don't think he should be banned, I just think he struggles to see (or try to see) other people's perspectives and losing his temper a bit when people don't see things the way he does - see for example multiple posts suggesting he's going to stop watching Liverpool, stop watching football, stop watching F1 because of a decision that upset him.

In the same way, he struggles to understand that taking a vaccine (such as the flu jab) even if you aren't concerned for your own health is important because it's putting your community first and putting their needs above your own. Again struggles with the perspective that even though he thinks he'd not be one of the unlucky ones to have covid complications, to the point of calling people in this thread cowards who are living in fear of a virus - but lacks the self awareness to spot that his main justification for not wanting the vaccine is, in his own words, fear.

He also thinks that because he doesn't know or see any 'vulnerable people' (obviously we know he's not capable of visually diagnosing people and only means 'old'), that he doesn't need to try to protect them by getting the vaccine. But that shows he can't put himself in the shoes of the people who work in his office with them, whose contacts he is unaware of and can't control.

I don't think it's trolling, it's just his personality.

True to your name very classy Carra !
Rubber Dinghy Rapids....

Offline Welshred

  • CBE. To be fair to him, he is a massive twat. Professional Ladies' Arse Fondler. Possibly......we're not sure any more......
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,662
  • JFT96
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47752 on: January 16, 2021, 09:41:56 am »
I don't think Linudden's a troll and don't think he should be banned,


I don't think he's a troll but I do think he should be banned for consistently demonstrating himself to be lacking care and compassion for others through his right wing, Tory beliefs - the complete antithesis of what Liverpool Football Club and RAWK is about

Offline Qston

  • Loves a bit of monkey tennis and especially loves a bit of sausage relief......
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,482
  • Believer
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47753 on: January 16, 2021, 10:16:52 am »
He's a troll who needs perma banning, you want to see his luny posts in the F1 thread.

I second this re: F1 thread
"Just a normal lad from Liverpool whose dream has just come true" Trent June 1st 2019

Offline McrRed

  • Member of International Hill Climbers Group. Only gets happy endings at Christmas.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,119
  • In the town where I was born
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47754 on: January 16, 2021, 10:28:35 am »
The question is valid. The assumptions by Linudden to arrive at the those conclusions are flawed though.

It comes down to transmission versus illness severity and how both are impacted by vaccination. If a vaccine blunts illness severity only with no impact on transmission, then of course only vaccinating those groups prone to serious illness is the correct strategy and then go back to what we were doing in February 2020. You've protected the vulnerable as best you can, not much more you can do unless we want to continue with social distancing - which we don't.

But if the vaccine significantly impacts transmission also, then the best way to protect the vulnerable is to vaccinate everyone after you've vaccinated them. The reason for this is that vaccines aren't protective for 100% of people. So for those vulnerable who it will protect from serious illness, they wont get ill, our mortality numbers will come down and we'll all go back to how we were in February 2020. But the virus will still spread, those vulnerable people who the vaccine didn't protect will get seriously ill and some will die. To protect these people we need to stop chains of transmission. We currently do it by social distancing, we could do it by vaccinating the bulk of the non-vulnerable population.

Vaccinating the vulnerable groups may end up protecting 70% of them from serious illness, vaccinating the remaining population can protect the other 30%. I say 70% because we don't know yet what efficacy this vaccine will have in the real world settings it is being administered (it won't be 90%) Measles was mentioned further down the page - it's always assumed we give the second dose of measles vaccination as a boost - we don't. The second administration is to protect the 8% of people who the first dose didn't work for due to it not being administered properly. That extra 8% makes a huge difference to population immunity for a virus that spreads so easily.

That's a caution not to assume that efficacy of trials will translate exactly to real world settings. We are likely looking at a vaccine that is somewhere between 70-90% effective rather than the numbers that came from the trial. So to protect that remaining 20-30% requires vaccination of everyone else and protects them simply by them not being exposed to the virus. Someone claiming they don't come into contact with the over 75's so vaccination isn't required misses the point about chains of infection. If you pick this up, you will pass it on, and that chain of infection you are a part of and helped (unwittingly) propagate will eventually pass through someone who's over 75, and someone who is vulnerable. Social distancing currently stops us 'youngsters' from being part of those chains and vaccination will stop us being part of them in the future when social distancing has gone.

As measles and mutation was brought up, some interesting things. Measles does mutate, just like other viruses. But it's proteins that it uses to latch onto and invade cells (a bit like to the coronavirus spike protein) are really sensitive to any changes in their structure. If they mutate even a little they can't bind and infect human cells at all. So we assume that measles doesn't mutate when it does - it's just that we never see a mutation in these surface proteins (which the vaccine creates antibodies to) as it would then never pass from person to person.
This is super.
Accidentally opened up the thread on the first page just now and decided to see what we thought a year ago ( thread started 31st Jan). I hold my hands up and did the "no worse than a flu" crap and didn't think too much would change.

How naive we all were eh?
We were naive then but we're not now, thank god

  ps can we stop jumping on one poster please? Address the issues raised by all means ...but there's an ad hominem thing that we do on rawk that is funny at first but becomes mob-like as more people jump in.

Offline Linudden

  • Twpsyn gwirion
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,155
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47755 on: January 16, 2021, 10:32:27 am »
I don't think he's a troll but I do think he should be banned for consistently demonstrating himself to be lacking care and compassion for others through his right wing, Tory beliefs - the complete antithesis of what Liverpool Football Club and RAWK is about

Wow. At least Classy got the libertarian label right rather than going to the T-word  ;D How on earth does me being anti-authority make me a T-word? All this on a forum dedicated to a club which doesn't allow fan membership, have capital ownership deciding all the club's moves, ridiculous ticket fares prizing out the bulk of working class people and is sponsored by a global bank and a corporation accused of having child labour in poor countries. Let's chill mate.

We disagree. It's not the end of the world. In my hometown in rural Sweden I'm run-of-the-mill for my generation that is mostly about taking care of yourself first and then hope the gov't uses the tax money wisely and leave us alone. This is in spite of this place being a lean-left swing area nowadays. We have a different culture sometimes.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 10:40:07 am by Linudden »

Offline a treeless whopper

  • Hates everyone and everything. Including YOU! Negativity not just for Christmas. Thinks 'irony' means 'metallic'......
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 61,924
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47756 on: January 16, 2021, 11:11:33 am »
Story in Norway from their Medical Agency that adverse reaction to the vaccine may have caused some deaths in the elderly. Story on the Guardian news blog.

Online TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 78,122
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47757 on: January 16, 2021, 11:30:12 am »
Story in Norway from their Medical Agency that adverse reaction to the vaccine may have caused some deaths in the elderly. Story on the Guardian news blog.
Link?
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline didi shamone

  • Too old for fighting
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,024
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47758 on: January 16, 2021, 11:33:05 am »
https://www.thejournal.ie/norway-vaccine-elderly-patients-5326967-Jan2021/

Here's an article on it if the journal is visable to to UK posters

Offline Schmidt

  • 's small stretchy scrotum
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,293
Re: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE
« Reply #47759 on: January 16, 2021, 11:39:41 am »
Oh good, something for the anti-vaxxers to cling desperately to...