Topic: Racism in Football

[WhereAngelsPlay]

This is part of the problem with these good intentioned gestures

They become the battlefield, football/clubs/authorities can ensure the knee is taken and this becomes the new "victory" and actual real remedies can be avoided.  We fought the good fight and against those that boo, not realising that many criticising the booing are a bigger part of the problem

It isn't a good intention gesture,it's a fucking protest by the players and it screams "Fuck You,You Racist c*nts."


Not all the people who boo are racists but the ones who boo and aren't are thick as shit,like that Tory (who is probably racist as well) prick who says he's not turning his TV on until it kicks off.

c*nt of a man.

[DangerScouse]

It isn't a good intention gesture,it's a fucking protest by the players and it screams "Fuck You,You Racist c*nts."


Not all the people who boo are racists but the ones who boo and aren't are thick as shit,like that Tory (who is probably racist as well) prick who says he's not turning his TV on until it kicks off.

c*nt of a man.

I'd argue they are all racist.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I'd argue they are all racist.

Easily argued,I just think that the boos will get less and less people as others start to ask




Those that would never ask that,well they can fuck off,don't give a shit about their feels.

[jillcwhomever]

True, I hate it when people do that, hence why I had a very specific replacement action that I indicated in my post

There is no reason why both things cannot happen it doesn't have to be one or the other does it?

[rob1966]

It's not a worthless gesture, and as long as these footballers wish to continue it I support it. People who attack the use of the taking of the knee seldom have a different idea, to put in its place anyway. The world is full of people who continually rubbish these "pointless gestures" but rarely come up with anything else to take it's place.

Agreed. Colin Kaepernick originally sat on the bench during the national anthem for 2 or 3 pre season games, to protest Police brutality and racism, he said he wasn't prepared to stand and show pride for the flag of a country that oppressed black people and people of colour and wanted to do something, this went unnoticed initially by his team mates and the media. His team mate Eric Reid wanted to join him in the peaceful protest and after speaking to former Green Beret and NFL player Nate Boyer, they decided to kneel, as it was more respectful than sitting on the bench.

People need to be educated on what taking the knee is really about, when it started and why.

[markmywords]

Agreed. Colin Kaepernick originally sat on the bench during the national anthem for 2 or 3 pre season games, to protest Police brutality and racism, he said he wasn't prepared to stand and show pride for the flag of a country that oppressed black people and people of colour and wanted to do something, this went unnoticed initially by his team mates and the media. His team mate Eric Reid wanted to join him in the peaceful protest and after speaking to former Green Beret and NFL player Nate Boyer, they decided to kneel, as it was more respectful than sitting on the bench.

People need to be educated on what taking the knee is really about, when it started and why.

The background is compelling

But the players have been very clear in distinguishing the reasons for their "protest" from colin Kaepernick's. 

This "Racism in football" thread is symptomatic of the whole discussion on racism, it has been hijacked by talking about people kneeling, if you are gonna take anything from NFL, take the rooney rule, which basically worked there, the kneeling as become a complete distraction and allows the focus to be taken away from the lack of representation in management/coaching.  I don't have any poster in mind, but I get the feeling some wouldn't want a more aggressive affirmative action policy, but may not have the nerve to admit it, so talk about Kneeling instead, they are happy for the distraction.

[12C]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/jun/09/ollie-robinson-twitter-racism-storm-obscures-ecbs-decades-of-inaction?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Not soccer, but an interesting take on how the ECB promised reform 20 years ago.

[rob1966]

Banning racists is necessary if it's banning someone for saying a racist thing in a public arena.

But it does nothing towards changing their views, they'll still be a racist, but they'll now be angry that they are banned from the place because of that person they abused, they may even wear it as a badge of honour.

The first thing that should be done is to try and educate them, get them to understand that what they think and feel is wrong. If at the end of the process they still won't change, then yes ban the fuckers for life.

[Alan_X]

Football needs to lead on this by using things like the Rooney rule  Trying to stop booing is a waste of energy, fans can boo using face masks and nobody can tell, I think the taking a knee gesture is worthless and a distraction from the real issues/solutions

Your argument falls down straight away because the country where the Rooney Rule was introduced is also one of the most racially divisive in the world.

They aren't kneeling to get openings for black managers. They're kneeling because of the constant and systemic racism that still exists in this country and which black players face on social media day in and day out.

They're also experiencing racism everytime a bunch of knuckle draggers boo their gesture at an internatinoal football match. As I said on a post on Twitter yesterday - if they really want to stop players taking the knee it's simple - stop being racists.

[markmywords]

Your argument falls down straight away because the country where the Rooney Rule was introduced is also one of the most racially divisive in the world.

If the US is more racially divisive(and I guess troubled) than the UK and they were successfully able to implement the rule, why is that a reason not to try it here?  Surely the reverse is true

They aren't kneeling to get openings for black managers. They're kneeling because of the constant and systemic racism that still exists in this country and which black players face on social media day in and day out.

They're also experiencing racism everytime a bunch of knuckle draggers boo their gesture at an internatinoal football match. As I said on a post on Twitter yesterday - if they really want to stop players taking the knee it's simple - stop being racists.

So the Rooney rule an actual measure than addresses lack of representation, that has a track record of measurable success is rejected, as it came from the US, but kneeling for 5 seconds before football matches (which is as american as apple pie) is gonna make the difference?

This is one of the things I don't like about kneeling, it allows football to reject things could make a difference whilst still attempting to hijack the high moral ground, people are squeamish about rejecting affirmative action measures, but still want to see themselves as the good guys, so denounce those booing the kneeling to compensate

[deFacto please, you bastards]

The players aren't hijacking the high moral ground, they're literally the ones who have experienced racism, and the rest are supporting their cause.

It's not that hard to understand. It wasn't hard to understand when Kappernick did it to begin with in the US, but people with agendas spun it their way to suit their narrative, and here we are with people still doing that.

[rob1966]

If the US is more racially divisive(and I guess troubled) than the UK and they were successfully able to implement the rule, why is that a reason not to try it here?  Surely the reverse is true


So the Rooney rule an actual measure than addresses lack of representation, that has a track record of measurable success is rejected, as it came from the US, but kneeling for 5 seconds before football matches (which is as american as apple pie) is gonna make the difference?

This is one of the things I don't like about kneeling, it allows football to reject things could make a difference whilst still attempting to hijack the high moral ground, people are squeamish about rejecting affirmative action measures, but still want to see themselves as the good guys, so denounce those booing the kneeling to compensate

According to this article, the Rooney rule is failing in the NFL, out of 27 vacancies in the last 4 hiring cycles, only 3 went to Black Men.

https://www.nfl.com/news/eric-bieniemy-byron-leftwich-left-waiting-as-number-of-black-nfl-head-coaches-st

[markmywords]

According to this article, the Rooney rule is failing in the NFL, out of 27 vacancies in the last 4 hiring cycles, only 3 went to Black Men.

https://www.nfl.com/news/eric-bieniemy-byron-leftwich-left-waiting-as-number-of-black-nfl-head-coaches-st

Interesting

The rule has been extended to tech and law industries because it has demonstrated results

before the rule there had been 8 black coaches in total over close to 100 yrs, since it was introduced in 2003 over 20 black coaches in under 20 yrs, in a 32 team operation, definitely worth consideration...

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

It's just sad that there's more talk about taking the knee than about football. It's a sport competition/event and everything around it should reflect sport. Congratulations booing dickheads for ruining it. Players are more concerned about this now than being fully concentrated on football.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

It's just sad that there's more talk about taking the knee than about football. It's a sport competition/event and everything around it should reflect sport. Congratulations booing dickheads for ruining it. Players are more concerned about this now than being fully concentrated on football.

You don't actually believe that do you ?

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

You don't actually believe that do you ?

Well not literally but it does affect them negatively. You read everyday this player or that player coming out saying we'll continue taking the knee no matter the boos. That's good and that's what they should do, it's just all the unnecessary talk and all the headlights created by booing dickheads.

[rob1966]

Interesting

The rule has been extended to tech and law industries because it has demonstrated results

before the rule there had been 8 black coaches in total over close to 100 yrs, since it was introduced in 2003 over 20 black coaches in under 20 yrs, in a 32 team operation, definitely worth consideration...

It appears though that within the NFL its not changed the culture and people being people, after doing what they were requested to do, as we all tend to do, they have done something initially but then just seemingly reverted back to type and its going backwards. I found a few articles that suggested the NFL is now obsessed with young white coaches. The author of that article mentions two coaches, who were working for the Chiefs and the Buccaneers, one who has been passed over for 7 head coach roles this season and the other who can't even get an interview and he cannot see why, as they are both better qualified and experienced than those getting the jobs. There is still a lot wrong with the NFL in this regard.

Until we change the culture, then the Rooney rule will only be a token gesture. Within the PL, they may interview more BAME candidates and maybe appoint some, but it'll quickly go back to the current white man merry go round.

[markmywords]

It appears though that within the NFL its not changed the culture and people being people, after doing what they were requested to do, as we all tend to do, they have done something initially but then just seemingly reverted back to type and its going backwards. I found a few articles that suggested the NFL is now obsessed with young white coaches. The author of that article mentions two coaches, who were working for the Chiefs and the Buccaneers, one who has been passed over for 7 head coach roles this season and the other who can't even get an interview and he cannot see why, as they are both better qualified and experienced than those getting the jobs. There is still a lot wrong with the NFL in this regard.

Until we change the culture, then the Rooney rule will only be a token gesture. Within the PL, they may interview more BAME candidates and maybe appoint some, but it'll quickly go back to the current white man merry go round.

The rooney rule won't solve all problems, by itself, but there have been over 20 black managers in under 20 yrs in the NFL, whereas the premier league has had 9 black manager in nearly 30.

It could help improve things. and be part of the culture change you mention, but I imagine many people's real problem with it ideological. 

[scatman]

The coaching discussion is totally off key and I'd be totally against the Rooney Rule in England, I'm a coach from an ethnic minority that is totally forgotten about in football. Nevermind the whole 'BAME' term which just groups everyone not white together.

The UK is probably one of the least racist countries in the world and then you see the booing of players taking the knee - this should just tell you how bad racism is across the world.

The whole misinformation about the slogan BLM and then the groups using that slogan for their politics itself has distorted the simple message that racism is unacceptable.

The players take the knee to say that racism is unacceptable. It's that simple but there's been nefarious racist twats spreading messages about marxism and blah blah blah that has diluted the message. I hope the players keep doing, fuck the racists.

[sinnermichael]

Michael Holding. Brilliant as usual.

https://twitter.com/SkyCricket/status/1403339999827972096

[Linudden]

The author of that article mentions two coaches, who were working for the Chiefs and the Buccaneers, one who has been passed over for 7 head coach roles this season and the other who can't even get an interview and he cannot see why, as they are both better qualified and experienced than those getting the jobs. There is still a lot wrong with the NFL in this regard.

I think the key is which franchises you talk about. If you have the chance to work with Mahomes or Brady every day it will be a lot more meaningful than getting a job at Cincinnati or Jacksonville. I sincerely doubt Bieniemy really wants to leave the Chiefs. He's got an excellent job in the position he's in. He probably shows up to the interviews and makes it pretty clear that he has extremely high salary demands because he loves his current job. I genuinely believe he really values working with Mahomes, Kelce and Hill in the most explosive offense in the NFL and who wouldn't? Also, to be #1 in line when the ageing and (let's be frank) not very healthy-looking head coach probably won't have more than a few years left in the game is not so bad. Bieniemy could easily land the big job at the Chiefs if he sticks around.

So I think this is mostly a stick being used to beat NFL franchises with when in all likelihood Bieniemy had a lukewarm interest in the teams that gave him interviews. One of the teams that rejected or got turned down by him hired a less qualified black coach one branch below Bieniemy in the Baltimore Ravens' coaching tree. Teams that would've been of serious interest to him because of the assets involved didn't hire new coaches this spring (Chicago, Dallas etc) so he probably feels better off where he's at.

There are definitely some opportunity barriers at a base entry level so it's a fair point but in this specific case let's not pretend that being in consecutive Super Bowls as offensive coordinator in the most stable organization in the league is a job to be scoffed at above dealing with players who couldn't tackle a lamp post or hit a garbage can with his throws Think of it as going from van Dijk to a random Championship hoofer. Even some top college coaches aren't interested in the bottom rung of the NFL because it's very tough to turn those projects around.

[redgriffin73]

Scotland team have now decided they will take the knee versus England in solidarity, after originally deciding not to take the knee during the tournament.

[Yorkykopite]

Michael Holding. Brilliant as usual.

https://twitter.com/SkyCricket/status/1403339999827972096

Exemplary.

[12C]

The players aren't hijacking the high moral ground, they're literally the ones who have experienced racism, and the rest are supporting their cause.

It's not that hard to understand. It wasn't hard to understand when Kappernick did it to begin with in the US, but people with agendas spun it their way to suit their narrative, and here we are with people still doing that.

Iirc It was VVD and the rest of the team who actually started this whole thing during lockdown.
They were pictured taking the knee at an empty Anfield. Virgil put it to the team and they went with him.
They did it because they know how much racist abuse gets thrown at them.

[12C]

Exemplary.

“Fire in Babylon” is a brilliant documentary about how the WI team under Sir Clive Lloyd made a conscious decision to fight back against racism.
The account of a young Michael Holding crying in the dressing room because he was called a black bastard by an Australian player, is still shocking.
Their anger was channeled into making their team one of the greatest, if not the greatest ever to play the game. Watching them smash into that pompous prick Greig and co, making him grovel was great.
Lloyd Richards Roberts Holding Garner. Real legendary players.

[jamie_c]

The rooney rule won't solve all problems, by itself, but there have been over 20 black managers in under 20 yrs in the NFL, whereas the premier league has had 9 black manager in nearly 30.

It could help improve things. and be part of the culture change you mention, but I imagine many people's real problem with it ideological. 

The nfl is nearly 70% black compared to the prem at 25%, so in real terms they are doing an even worse job.

[markmywords]

The nfl is nearly 70% black compared to the prem at 25%, so in real terms they are doing an even worse job.

as I said earlier...

before the rule there had been 8 black coaches in total over close to 100 yrs, since it was introduced in 2003 over 20 black coaches in under 20 yrs, in a 32 team operation, definitely worth consideration...

[RyanBabel19]

Disgusted by the activity of some of these so called fans. Funnily enough as soon as Saka missed it was inevitable those black players were going to get a torrent of abuse

Sick to death of this myth being perpetuated that england isn't that bad or racist, it's an absolute joke and i've been through enough personal experiences and seen enough to know it's a lot more prevelant than people care to admit

[RedSamba]

No eastern europeans to blame this time around

[Broad Spectrum]

Honestly you must be seeing things. The social media blackout a few months ago sorted the problem. Probably just a few people having a bit of banter.

A complete boycott of all of the platforms by athletes is required, particularly those right at the top of their respective sports, to truly kick-start change. But as I’ve said on here before it won’t happen, so the outrage will build until the next ‘blackout weekend’ and the cycle starts over. Obviously it would also be nice if we had a government that actually gave a shit and started to apply pressure on these companies to address the problem, because they’ve literally done nothing. Sure I read on here last night someone got banned on Twitter recently for calling Matt Hancock a c*nt, glad they’ve got their priorities straight.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Instead of being a racist c*nt, it's better just to accept it that the other team was better

[RedForeverTT]

Disgusted by the activity of some of these so called fans. Funnily enough as soon as Saka missed it was inevitable those black players were going to get a torrent of abuse

Sick to death of this myth being perpetuated that england isn't that bad or racist, it's an absolute joke and i've been through enough personal experiences and seen enough to know it's a lot more prevelant than people care to admit

Some were racist waiting for an opportunity to abuse a person of colour. Probably never watched a football game their entire life. Twitter need to sort this shit out. Maybe everyone’s identity has to be verified before signing to use Twitter.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Some were racist waiting for an opportunity to abuse a person of colour. Probably never watched a football game their entire life. Twitter need to sort this shit out. Maybe everyone’s identity has to be verified before signing to use Twitter.

One twitter racist has been reported to his employer - nothing to do with twitter but other uses screenshotting and reporting it


He had a good job as well


such a shame eh

[bornandbRED]

Slightly uncomfortable that many of these accounts spewing racism after last night seem to be bots (obviously not all) which could be controlled from anywhere in the world. Unfortunately that’s the problem with social media - whoever with whatever intention is able to access it.

It’s largely an entirely clandestine enemy, and how do you stop that?

[Broad Spectrum]

Slightly uncomfortable that many of these accounts spewing racism after last night seem to be bots (obviously not all) which could be controlled from anywhere in the world. Unfortunately that’s the problem with social media - whoever with whatever intention is able to access it.

Also a massive problem, you’re spot on.

[jillcwhomever]

Disgusted by the activity of some of these so called fans. Funnily enough as soon as Saka missed it was inevitable those black players were going to get a torrent of abuse

Sick to death of this myth being perpetuated that england isn't that bad or racist, it's an absolute joke and i've been through enough personal experiences and seen enough to know it's a lot more prevelant than people care to admit

Yes the country does have a racist issue it also starts with the politicians using the race card. But sad to say it’s an issue the world over and one we all have to deal with.

[Red_Mist]

Slightly uncomfortable that many of these accounts spewing racism after last night seem to be bots (obviously not all) which could be controlled from anywhere in the world. Unfortunately that’s the problem with social media - whoever with whatever intention is able to access it.

It’s largely an entirely clandestine enemy, and how do you stop that?

Just out of interest, where have you read that a lot of them are bots?

[Kenny's Jacket]

Disgusted by the activity of some of these so called fans. Funnily enough as soon as Saka missed it was inevitable those black players were going to get a torrent of abuse

Sick to death of this myth being perpetuated that england isn't that bad or racist, it's an absolute joke and i've been through enough personal experiences and seen enough to know it's a lot more prevelant than people care to admit

The good news is we also have a strong anti racist element that look to call it out. I hope things get better


all the best

[bornandbRED]

Just out of interest, where have you read that a lot of them are bots?

Have a search online, or even take a scroll down Saka’s Instagram. They’re almost all anonymous accounts and many of them with the same profile pics.

Of course - not suggesting people aren’t being racist but highlighting the fact that social media is very open to manipulation and so solving this particular issue is very complex.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Have a search online, or even take a scroll down Saka’s Instagram. They’re almost all anonymous accounts and many of them with the same profile pics.

Excuse my ignorance but whos controlling these bots



some people create accounts just to troll - thess peope are never going to use real details