Author Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE  (Read 3440297 times)

Offline So… Howard Philips

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Latest ICNARC report still looking positive in terms of a drop in mortality in this 'wave' compared to the first. Still early days though to make any inferences.

But they do point out that is based on patients in a lower age group admitted so far though.

Offline redbyrdz

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Also wonder if it's to do with delays between testing and getting results. Considering you are probably only going to get tested when you have symptoms, you might be still waiting to get the result when it suddenly gets worse (which seems to be quite common with covid). The hospital admission would then likely not record you as being positive, but once the results come in, they add that to the record.
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Where’s Dido Harding these days with her world beating system?  Disappeared ever since her proclamation to the Select Commitee in early September that no-one could have foreseen an increase in testing demand after schools returned and work from home ended.

Maybe it’s because almost everyone except Dido could predict that.

Offline Bincey

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But they do point out that is based on patients in a lower age group admitted so far though.

Missed that. Where was it mentioned?

Offline So… Howard Philips

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Missed that. Where was it mentioned?

I read it in the BBC report.

Offline So… Howard Philips

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Where’s Dido Harding these days with her world beating system?  Disappeared ever since her proclamation to the Select Commitee in early September that no-one could have foreseen an increase in testing demand after schools returned and work from home ended.

Maybe it’s because almost everyone except Dido could predict that.

Wasn't Dido of Carthage a seer? Or am I getting mixed up with Cassandra?

I'm sure Boris will know, why with him being a Classics student.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: the closure of gyms, a Canadian example

A spinning class in Hamilton (just southwest of Toronto) is as of Thursday linked with 74 cases: at least 45 riders and 25+ secondary contacts. At least 5 of the individuals do not live in Hamilton. Positive test results for patrons and staff range from teenagers to people in their late 50s.It's also been linked as the cause of an additional  outbreak at a restaurant.

Patient zero had COVID, but was asymptomatic. The facility had adhered to all government specifications re: distancing and capacity (they had a maximum of 21 bikes available when spacing was put into consideration). Bikes were located six feet apart. Patrons had temperature checks and completed questionnaires. It does sound like riders were allowed to remove their masks once on the bike, which was within provincial guidelines.
 
As an epidemiologist at the University of Toronto noted it doesn't matter that they adhered to guidelines, because mask removal and poor ventilation would have taken over

Quote
But the risk of viral spread in a congregate setting is not linear, said Colin Furness, an infectious control epidemiologist at the University of Toronto.

It is more akin to a game of Russian roulette.

“We think it’s a bad idea to play Russian roulette because most of the time, when you put the gun to your head and pull the trigger, nothing happens,” Furness said. “But there’s a risk that something really awful will happen, like it seemed to have here.”

Furness stressed the blame ought not to be pinned on the studio owners. It ought to be pinned on the province, he said, for giving select businesses the option to open “inherently dangerous” settings like gyms, restaurants and bars.

“This can happen at any gym,” Furness said. “This is not about how well the gym was run; this is about how COVID spreads. If you let people hangout together, without masks, sharing air, in the same space for a prolonged period of time … this was going to happen anyways.”
https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilton-region/2020/10/13/spinco-hamilton-superspreader-covid-19-outbreak-reaches-51-cases.html?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 04:33:45 pm by rafathegaffa83 »

Offline Lee1-6Liv

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Joe Andersons brother has died from corona.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-54584112

Offline Thepooloflife

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Joe Andersons brother has died from corona.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-54584112
Sorry to hear that and wish his family well.

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UK cases/deaths announced today

16,171 Positive tests
150 deaths

Maybe some signs of levelling off, although really too early to say

« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 04:27:02 pm by filopastry »

Offline djahern

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But they do point out that is based on patients in a lower age group admitted so far though.

That's for general admissions though.

Admissions to ICU pre and post September 1st have been fairly steady, median age of 60 v 62.

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Just cases... etc etc...

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Offline [new username under construction]

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Maybe some signs of levelling off, although really too early to say

I think Manchester has been going down for a few days now so hopefully that is mirrored elsewhere

Online TepidT2O

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Rate of increase slowing? Let’s look back in another week and we will know more.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline Zeb

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Either someone's mocked up a fake or a letter has gone out from CPT Cymru (transport association), after discussions with the Welsh government, to start to prepare for a two week lockdown (the original version... essential retail only etc.) in Wales running 6pm 23rd October through 9th November to be announced Monday. Needs a serious journalist or two to actually verify the origins of the letter really. Social media full of dickheads saying "I understand..." and playing Nostradamus off the back of it.
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Online TepidT2O

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For those who are concerned, Eton have had dozens of cases .....

“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline So… Howard Philips

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For those who are concerned, Eton have had dozens of cases .....

So will the Lower Remove be exempt from fagging duties, except on Founder's Day, of course?

Offline So… Howard Philips

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That's for general admissions though.

Admissions to ICU pre and post September 1st have been fairly steady, median age of 60 v 62.

This is the piece I was referring to but the age reference has been removed - it a conspiraceh!

Online TepidT2O

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So will the Lower Remove be exempt from fagging duties, except on Founder's Day, of course?
Just 2 miles away, we have had one case....

Lol
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Exclusive: Police given access to Test and Trace data on those told to self-isolate

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The contact details of those who have been instructed to self-isolate by NHS Test and Trace are to be passed to the police on request, in a move that has alarmed senior health figures who are concerned it will undermine confidence in and co-operation with testing regime, HSJ has learned.

Spoiler
The Department of Health and Social Care updated its online guidance on how coronavirus test information will be treated late last night. The new guidance reveals how information about those who are told to self-isolate because they have tested positive for coronavirus or are the close contact of someone who has tested positive will be handled (see box below).

This includes details on how police forces will be able to access contact details of those told to self-isolate. This aspect of the guidance applies only to England, not the devolved UK nations.

HSJ has learned the updated guidance followed the signing of a memorandum of understanding governing the sharing of the data between the DHSC and the National Police Chiefs Council, acting on behalf of local police forces, last weekend.

A senior source close to the issue told HSJ the MoU had been put in place after health secretary Matt Hancock made an “incredibly forceful” intervention to ensure that data sharing arrangements were clarified.

HSJ understands an MoU was necessary as there is no statutory basis on which the information could be shared. The information is to be supplied via Public Health England, which reports directly to the health secretary, rather than via arm’s-length body NHS Digital. PHE holds the information on who has been told to self-isolate, but data sharing is uusally faciltated by NHS Digital in its role as the “national data guardian”.

HSJ understands the office of chief medical office Chris Whitty expressed significant reservations about the move, fearing that it would discourage people from being tested.

A DHSC source said: “The [CMO’s office] are worried that people will simply stop getting tested because it just opens them up to the risk of being tracked by police and fined, and so the department is creating a strong disincentive to testing, which creates a big public health risk.”

Another senior source with detailed knowledge of NHS Test and Trace operations told HSJ: “T&T are concerned about anything that puts people off getting tested and this will — especially the people we most need to come forward.”

Among those who Test and Trace are keenest to reach are those from black, Asian and minority ethnic communities, who are often more vulnerable to the virus and have seen higher covid infection rates.

Speaking at last week’s HSJ Digital Strategy Summit, NHSX head of inequalities Shabira Papain said research it had undertaken during the pandemic showed that “trust in the NHS and in government agencies is really poor and is diminishing” among some BAME communities.

Ms Papain said “people were really worried” about whether the NHS “would share people’s details with other agencies”, particularly the immigration authorities and the police.

However, a senior government source defended the sharing of limited information with the police, saying that it was a “balanced and pragmatic solution” to a “tricky problem”.

They argued that making self-isolation legally enforceable was an appropriate “quid pro quo” for the financial support now given to those people by government, and that – therefore – the police needed the information they required to help ensure compliance.

A DHCS spokesperson said: “It is a legal requirement for people who have tested positive for covid-19 and their close contacts to self-isolate when formally notified to do so.

“The DHSC has agreed a memorandum of understanding with the National Police Chiefs Council to enable police forces to have access on a case-by-case basis to information that enables them to know if a specific individual has been notified to self-isolate. The memorandum of understanding ensures that information is shared with appropriate safeguards and in accordance with the law. No testing or health data is shared in this process.”

What the new guidance says
The updated guidance says that anybody who has been “instructed to self-isolate by NHS Test and Trace” will be regularly contacted “by phone and text… to provide advice and support and check you are self-isolating”.

It continues: “If we try to call you but receive no response after three attempts or you tell us you are not self-isolating; the following data will be passed to your local authority.”

This information would include a person’s name, the address at which they are self-isolating, their contact details, and information about when they were instructed to self-isolate.

The guidance explains: “Your local authority will investigate further to find out if you need support with self-isolating or have a reasonable excuse not to self-isolate.”

It then adds: “If there is evidence to suggest you are not complying with the duty to self-isolate without reasonable justification, your local authority may pass this information on to local police forces to investigate further. This may lead to enforcement action being taken against you, which could include you being fined.”

The guidance also states: “A police force may request information relating to positive COVID-19 tests from the NHS Test & Trace programme directly, where they are investigating a report of someone who may not be complying with the mandatory self-isolation period.”

HSJ understands that police forces looking for information on those who are meant to be self-isolating will ring a helpline on a case by case basis.

The guidance lists “police forces in England” as “data controllers” for the testing information.

It also says those who test positive for coronavirus “must” contact their employer. The previous guidance only “strongly recommended” it.

It also reveals that landline and mobile phone numbers are being collected, along with postal and email addresses.
[close]

https://www.hsj.co.uk/news/exclusive-police-given-access-to-test-and-trace-data-on-those-told-to-self-isolate/7028653.article

Offline 12C

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I'm sure the plan was to decommission the old Royal though. Externally it looks like it's suffering from a bad case of concrete acne.

But even if we assume both were kept open where would the staff come from for the extra beds created?
was in there a lot 3/4 years ago with family. The staff were saying that maintenance had been cut for all except absolute emergencies. Dripping taps, taps not working, door frames etc were getting left because they were due to move. Then when the new one was cocked up there was a backlog which has drained the coffers further.
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Offline 12C

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Don’t know if this teacher Mrs Coster’s  story has been posted.

https://twitter.com/ligomersall/status/1297283167393665024?s=21
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Offline Zeb

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Exclusive: Police given access to Test and Trace data on those told to self-isolate
https://www.hsj.co.uk/news/exclusive-police-given-access-to-test-and-trace-data-on-those-told-to-self-isolate/7028653.article

For a government which pleads that it breaks its heart every time it introduces a restrictive measure it doesn't half reach for the punitive over the supportive every time there's a choice. Fines will be at a bazillion pounds a time before we're out of this.
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And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline RainbowFlick

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Latest ICNARC report still looking positive in terms of a drop in mortality in this 'wave' compared to the first. Still early days though to make any inferences.

Interesting, although is comparisons really that helpful? The first wave we had inadequate testing (we still do, but somewhat better) so we'd have no real idea of the wider community spread. So maybe Wave 2 and the inevitable Wave 3 would be a better indicator? Also, the spread is only now really creeping into older people, which may make these stats not that useful.
YNWA.

Offline Rhi

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Either someone's mocked up a fake or a letter has gone out from CPT Cymru (transport association), after discussions with the Welsh government, to start to prepare for a two week lockdown (the original version... essential retail only etc.) in Wales running 6pm 23rd October through 9th November to be announced Monday. Needs a serious journalist or two to actually verify the origins of the letter really. Social media full of dickheads saying "I understand..." and playing Nostradamus off the back of it.

There was talk of this yesterday. I am supposed to be going to my Dad's in Wales on the 25th October to spend a couple of weeks with him. Hmmmm.
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32000 cases in france today... fucking hell.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
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32000 cases in france today... fucking hell.

3 or so weeks behind France they said didn’t they?

Offline Zeb

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There was talk of this yesterday. I am supposed to be going to my Dad's in Wales on the 25th October to spend a couple of weeks with him. Hmmmm.

Sure you'll have seen, Sky news has verified the letter going round is genuine. Welsh government saying no decision has been formally taken yet.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-wales-to-enter-17-day-circuit-break-lockdown-leaked-letter-reveals-12107052

Quote
In response to the leaked letter, a Welsh government spokesperson said: "The measures we have put in place at both a local and a national level, with help from the public, have kept the spread of the virus under check.

"However, there is a growing consensus that we now need to introduce a different set of measures and actions to respond to the virus as it is spreading across Wales more quickly through the autumn and winter.

"We are actively considering advice from SAGE and our TAC Group. A 'fire break' set of measures to control COVID-19, similar to that described in the SAGE papers, is under consideration in Wales.

"As the first minister set out in his press conference on Friday, we have discussed this advice with stakeholders and partners. But no decisions have been made."
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Offline killer-heels

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For the second time I have had a message from the NHS app saying possible covid exposure. Then i get a message saying dont stress we have assessed risk and take a chill pill. Maybe not quite in those words.

Anyone had something like that?

Offline Zeb

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For the second time I have had a message from the NHS app saying possible covid exposure. Then i get a message saying dont stress we have assessed risk and take a chill pill. Maybe not quite in those words.

Anyone had something like that?

Yeah. They had the 'chill out' message added because they can't stop the initial message being sent by the app (Google/Apple thing).
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Offline Bincey

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Interesting, although is comparisons really that helpful? The first wave we had inadequate testing (we still do, but somewhat better) so we'd have no real idea of the wider community spread. So maybe Wave 2 and the inevitable Wave 3 would be a better indicator? Also, the spread is only now really creeping into older people, which may make these stats not that useful.

Sorry, not sure I follow. As djahern says the average age of ICU admissions has been fairly similar in both 'waves'. Also, not sure what you mean about testing. Unless i'm missing something, I don't see how that affects these reports?

Offline killer-heels

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Yeah. They had the 'chill out' message added because they can't stop the initial message being sent by the app (Google/Apple thing).

So is there any information around what they mean by this exposure? Like how far back, vicinity etc?

Offline Zeb

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So is there any information around what they mean by this exposure? Like how far back, vicinity etc?

Not in such detail. There is info on the algorithm: https://covid19.nhs.uk/risk-scoring-algorithm.html

Quote
The app uses Bluetooth signal strength between devices to estimate the distance between two people. It estimates the distance for that encounter as one of three levels: Close, Medium and Far.

It is highly likely that encounters identified as “Close” are significantly within 2 metres and that those identified as “Far” are most likely over 4 metres away.

Those identified as “Medium” will include encounters that are close to 2 metres away; some slightly under and some slightly over.

And there's more on the page there on how they weight it from there.
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Offline killer-heels

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Not in such detail. There is info on the algorithm: https://covid19.nhs.uk/risk-scoring-algorithm.html

And there's more on the page there on how they weight it from there.

It didn’t state on the message the ranking, be it low, medium or high.

Offline Zeb

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It didn’t state on the message the ranking, be it low, medium or high.

So far as I know, we just get to see the end result of the algorithm deciding if it's anything to do something about or not. Do know for myself that 'possibles' can be 2m+ away and the other side of a window.
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Offline killer-heels

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So far as I know, we just get to see the end result of the algorithm deciding if it's anything to do something about or not. Do know for myself that 'possibles' can be 2m+ away and the other side of a window.

Thanks. To be honest I work a mix of at home and in a store so I have pretty much accepted that I am getting it.

Offline Rhi

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Sure you'll have seen, Sky news has verified the letter going round is genuine. Welsh government saying no decision has been formally taken yet.

I hadn't seen that, so thanks! The talk yesterday was that they'll make the decision on Monday. I'll just wait and see what the decision is. It's a bit frustrating as my Dad lives in a part of Wales with a very low number of cases, and I live in a part of England with a relatively low number of cases. But I do think a national lockdown is the right way to go. It's just a bit ridiculous that the devolved nations have to go it alone.
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For the second time I have had a message from the NHS app saying possible covid exposure. Then i get a message saying dont stress we have assessed risk and take a chill pill. Maybe not quite in those words.

Anyone had something like that?

I had one message like that last night, after we heard one of our managers had been found positive.
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Offline thaddeus

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I hadn't seen that, so thanks! The talk yesterday was that they'll make the decision on Monday. I'll just wait and see what the decision is. It's a bit frustrating as my Dad lives in a part of Wales with a very low number of cases, and I live in a part of England with a relatively low number of cases. But I do think a national lockdown is the right way to go. It's just a bit ridiculous that the devolved nations have to go it alone.
This is probably an incredibly stupid question so apologies in advance.  Is the payment of furlough (and other Covid-19 payment schemes) in the devolved nations agreed and paid for from Westminster?  I'm trying to get it clear in my head if the devolved nations being more proactive on lockdowns than England is one of cost or ideology.

Offline Rhi

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This is probably an incredibly stupid question so apologies in advance.  Is the payment of furlough (and other Covid-19 payment schemes) in the devolved nations agreed and paid for from Westminster?  I'm trying to get it clear in my head if the devolved nations being more proactive on lockdowns than England is one of cost or ideology.

Last time around, fulrough was arranged and administered via Westminster/HMRC(?). I'm unsure how the grants/loan system differed in England/Wales. I suspect it predominantly came from UK Govt rather than from the Welsh Govt budget. There's been no confirmation on whether there will be any extra support this time / what level it'll be set at. We'll see on Monday about that, I guess! There has been no provision from UK Govt beyond the 2/3rds of pay thing, has there? So should be fairly clear who is funding the next / future "circuit breakers".
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