Author Topic: "Are there any good diving schools in London?” Salah & the media's moral compass  (Read 5990 times)

Offline E2K

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“Milan’s centre-back Alessandro Costacurta was sent off five minutes before half-time for a foul on Monaco’s German striker Jürgen Klinsmann. Television replays suggested that Klinsmann had hardly been touched and the resulting red card incensed the crowd. Thirteen minutes earlier Costacurta had been shown a yellow card for a foul on Klinsmann after which the German writhed on the ground in agony.”

[Match report — AC Milan 3, AS Monaco 0, Champions League semi-final, April 1994]

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[Picture — West Germany 1, Argentina 0, World Cup Final, July 1990]

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“Are there any good diving schools in London?”

[Jürgen Klinsmann, August 1994]

I wanted to call this: "Are there any good diving schools in London?” Mo Salah and the English media's ongoing struggles with its moral compass. But that was never going to fit, was it?

Back in the summer of 1994, the greatest diver in the history of association football arrived in English football. Various pretenders to that crown have come and gone over the years, but this guy remains the 24-carat gold standard, the examples outlined above merely two of the most high-profile, pride-of-place entries in his portfolio. It was the feigning of injury that really set him apart — plenty of professional footballers have hit the deck at opportune moments, but few have ever stayed there for quite as long as this guy regularly did.

And he wasn’t exactly shy and retiring about admitting it either. He began his first press-conference in England by asking the assembled reporters: “Are there any good diving schools in London?” And upon scoring for Tottenham on his league debut in a thrilling 4-3 win away to Sheffield Wednesday, he led his teammates in a group “dive” onto the Hillsborough turf.

They certainly did laugh it up that day, Teddy and co., but surely they would be the only ones? This was England, once home to the fabled Corinthian spirit that “put fair play and moral values above such sordid, vulgar things as winning.” The Corinthians “never argued with the ref or entered any competition where there was a prize,” and if “by chance the other team lost a man, either sent off or through injury, they immediately and voluntarily sent off one of their own men, just to keep things even.” The game had moved on since then, of course, but remnants of the old values remained and it was surely never going to work out for Jürgen Klinsmann in the Premier League in that context.

Except, it did. He scored 21 league goals and even went on to win the Football Writers’ Association Footballer of the Year Award at the end of the season. The players voted for 34-goal Alan Shearer, but it’s safe to say that those journalists were smitten with the German and his 1967 VW Beetle. In truth, Klinsmann kept his copybook relatively un-blotted during his single full season in England, but the laughter that greeted his initial quip about diving schools before he had even kicked a ball in anger for Spurs made you wonder whether it would have mattered if he hadn’t.

This, ladies and gentlemen, was the point, just over two years into the Premier League’s existence, where the subject of diving and the players who do it was first put on the English football media’s agenda in a meaningful way, when something that had always been externalised and largely dismissed as a foreign disease arrived poking fun at itself a mere three years after English clubs had been readmitted to continental competition following the Heysel ban and with the influx of international stars poised to take off in the wake of USA ‘94.

Almost a quarter-century later, the search for a consistent position on the issue continues. At times it is portrayed as the most vile act imaginable (David N’gog can surely attest); at others, it is presented as a smart, streetwise tool in the modern footballer’s armoury. The microscope’s focus sharpens or blurs depending on a variety of factors, which frequently seem to include the nationality and club affiliation of the offender. Sometimes you get the journalistic equivalent of a shake of the head and a wag of the finger, but then occasionally you’ll get an inquisition that lasts for weeks, even months.

And it’s safe to say that in this age of social media, the outrage of rival supporters who cry foul (often when their own team isn’t even involved, as was the case with certain Everton supporters in the past week) while staunchly defending similar behaviours in their own players can also determine the force with which an ever-reactive media responds to such incidents, or alleged incidents, a worrying development in itself given that journalism is supposedly built on a level of objectivity typically beyond the tribal loyalties of your average football supporter.

What all of this has amounted to is a schizophrenic mess where the already-insignificant banalities uttered by your average professional pundit, football writer or manager become even more worthless than normal, as if they have thrown a couple of cans of spinach down their necks ala Popeye and the bullshit emanating from their throats has suddenly sprouted a pair of monstrously deformed forearms that proceed to pummel your ears and brain in equal measure.

As we approach the final hours of 2018, then, and with the current FWA (and PFA) Player of the Year under increasing siege for first drawing the referee’s attention to an obvious foul by Newcastle’s Paul Dummett and then being, well, fouled, in the box no less, by Arsenal’s Sokratis yesterday, the first league penalties awarded to Liverpool at Anfield in some 14 months, I thought it might be interesting to go back and try to paint a picture of evolving attitudes towards the dreaded subject of diving during the Premier League era using what I consider to be a few key signposts and, in particular, try to make some sense of the wildly contrasting attitudes on the subject that are still in evidence to this day (this is all from memory, by the way, so feel free to fill in the gaps).

We begin our story with Klinsmann, and it doesn’t take a genius to imagine Mo Salah getting a very different reaction than the German did all those years ago, only a few months removed from using simulation to deny an opponent the opportunity to take part in a Champions League final, if he asked the assembled media at Liverpool’s next press-conference whether there are any decent diving schools on Merseyside.

But does this mean that, as 2019 dawns, the English football media is looking towards its past and promoting a return to old-fashioned values, much like its mainstream equivalent has done with Brexit? Or is it that they simply don’t like the fact that one of the world’s most talented attackers, who plays for a club they’re not particularly fond of and whose former players in the media are so fixated upon being seen to be neutral that they won’t utter a word to the contrary, and who has been kicked from pillar to post without complaint for a year and a half, has decided to take the advice of one of the media’s favourite managers and become a bit smarter about this stuff, like England’s own Dele Alli, perhaps?

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“It’s too much sometimes. There is such a focus on this type of situation. I think it’s a minimal issue.

“Dele is not perfect. Nobody is perfect. He is a clever boy. He is a little bit nasty. Football is a creative sport in which you need the talent that grows in a very intelligent person, a very smart brain. But the problem today is that, more than this type of situation, I am worried we are going to change the game we know.

“We are so focused on minimal details. I am worried that in a few years, the sport we love and that people love to watch around the world, will be pushed into a very rigid, structured thing – with the VAR and with being focused too much on the small actions like this.”

Pochettino went back to a time – 20 or 30 years ago – when everybody “congratulated the player who tricks the referee” and it was possible to feel his inner cynical Argentinian.

But he was on safe ground when he highlighted how English players have never been angels. Notoriously, Pochettino was adjudged to have fouled the England striker Michael Owen at the 2002 World Cup. David Beckham converted the penalty and England had a 1-0 group stage win over Argentina. The contact from Pochettino on Owen was minimal, to say the least. He has previously said Owen “jumped like he was in a swimming pool”.

“You believe that in England you were honest and always perfect,” Pochettino added, with a smile. “That is the football I was in love with when I was a child. Football is about trying to trick your opponent. Yes or no? What does ‘tactic’ mean? When you do some tactics, it is to try to trick the opponent.”

[Mauricio Pochettino, February 2018]

One thing you can say for Pochettino is that, like virtually all South Americans, he is comfortable in his own skin when it comes gamesmanship. The English media has taken a bit longer and isn’t quite there yet, the old values still in evidence when it suits, but they have certainly grown relaxed at the sight of their own players cheating, the most recent example being Danny Murphy producing a late Christmas miracle by magically conjuring meaningful contact to explain away Lord Kane’s booking for simulation against Wolves yesterday (although Alan Shearer at least admitted the obvious).

Last February, Pochettino was forced to speak about Alli in this context because he had been booked for diving at Anfield, for the third time in his Premier League career. A similar intervention by his compatriot Kane did succeed in tricking the official and was potentially far more injurious to Tottenham’s opponents that day, given that his expert dangling of a leg towards Liverpool goalkeeper Loris Karius bought a penalty for his side, indisputably the product of cheating. And yet no blinding spotlight shone the England captain’s way after the match.

It’s all a far cry from the scene at Highbury in March 1997. With Liverpool leading 1-0 in the second half of a tense tussle between two title challengers, Robbie Fowler chased a through ball from Mark Wright and got there just before the onrushing Arsenal goalkeeper, David Seaman, who looked to pull out of the challenge once the Liverpool striker touched the ball out of his reach. Fowler then appeared to do what resembled a frog-jump over his opponent, and there was minimal contact if any, but the referee nonetheless pointed to the spot.

The normally mild-mannered Seaman was furious, and in the immediate aftermath Fowler seemed to be appealing to the official not to give the penalty. The decision duly stood, as they usually do, and Fowler‘s eventual effort was anaemic, as though he too wanted natural justice to prevail (luckily Jason McAteer didn’t). The away side went on to win 2-1, although a number of poor results in the following weeks meant that the whole incident ultimately amounted to nothing more than fodder for bantery talking heads compilation shows and Rory McGrath dvds (remember him?)

Fowler’s honesty was praised heartily in the aftermath, however, and he later received a UEFA Fair Play award for his actions. Less than three years after the subject of diving was treated with mirth at Tottenham’s unveiling of Klinsmann, it seemed that there was something of a consensus emerging in English football that honesty was still the best policy.

Undeniably, though, there was plenty of selective blindness going on too. Some 15 months after Fowler’s stand for decency (and, seemingly, for his side dropping points) in north London, for example, his Liverpool teammate Michael Owen would collapse at the merest hint of contact for a very questionable penalty to get England back into the World Cup last-16 game against Argentina in Saint-Étienne. No problem, seemed to be the attitude, play the Argies at their own game, right? Well, indeed. Argentinian Pochettino would no doubt hold his hands up and nod in approval. But surely, then, all puritanical affectations regarding “simulation” should have been left behind in the Stade Geoffroy-Guichard that night too, along with England’s World Cup hopes?

Not so. Diego Simeone, who himself collapsed under innocuous contact from David Beckham not an hour after Owen did similar to Roberto Ayala, became a villain for many in the aftermath. Yet had he, like England’s teenage star, not simply taken a dive under minimal contact to secure an advantage for his team, in this case a red card for an opponent rather than a free shot at goal from 12 yards (and incidentally, I suspect Simeone was as surprised as anyone to see a straight red produced rather than a yellow)? Seen through this lens, and speaking objectively, the demonisation of Simeone carried with it more than a little hypocrisy, although it should be noted that Beckham also got more than his fair share of abuse in the aftermath. That schizophrenia in action again, I suppose.

Four years later, the tables would very much be turned. Speaking the month before the two countries would once again lock horns in a World Cup, and with Simeone having recently and publicly admitted that he had conned the referee four years previously, former Argentina captain and newspaper columnist Roberto Perfumo said that “Simeone did an act and got Beckham sent off. This is not the kind of thing that could have been done by one of your naive, honest English players...English players are more naive. Our game is more calculating.”

The assurance with which the man tempted fate with these words is hilarious in the context of what subsequently happened in the Sapporo Dome. I’ll let Pochettino take it from here: “Don’t believe that English football is fair play always because Owen jumped like he was in a swimming pool. Come on. I didn’t touch him. I promise you. It’s true.” While England won 1-0 with that redemptive penalty from Beckham and moved on in the tournament, Argentina and Simeone went home early.

Many years later, Owen would also admit that he took a dive that day. “Pochettino actually did touch me, clipped my knee. It wasn’t enough to put me down, but the only reason I went down was because earlier in the game someone fouled me. Collina was the referee, one of the most famous referees of all time, and I said ‘referee it’s a penalty’ and he said ‘Michael to know you have to go down to win the penalty.’ He told me you have to go down, so I thought next time I get touched I’ll go down and I did and he gave me a penalty.”

So quite why we’re talking about Mo Salah similarly going down under genuine contact in the box in the final week of 2018, over two decades after events in 1998 and over a decade and a half after 2002, is a mystery to me, particularly in the context of the assorted array of genuine cheats that the English football establishment has collectively exalted during the intervening years. For example, here’s an excerpt from a match report of Chelsea’s victory 2-0 over Manchester City in March 2006:

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Drogba’s antics were first highlighted when he went down, in apparent agony, following a challenge from Danny Mills. Replays suggested there was no contact. Drogba went on to give Chelsea the lead with a piece of sublime control and finishing when he converted Eidur Gudjohnsen’s ball. But it was the second goal that was the catalyst for controversy. At Fulham last week he blatantly handled and had a goal ruled out. This time it was more instinctive, but still he handled before he scored the second goal.

Drogba’s reaction afterwards was brazen. “Yes it is [handball] but it’s a part of the game. If Man. City score like this nobody says anything. Everyone wants to make something bad about Chelsea...I don’t know why. Sometimes I dive, sometimes I step over. I don’t care about this. In football you can’t stay up every time. The people who are criticising me maybe should come on the pitch and we’ll see if they dive or not.”

All of us will be well aware, of course, given that Liverpool would play Chelsea many more times before the Ivorian left Stamford Bridge for good at the end of his second stint in 2015, that Drogba’s antics would continue unabashed across subsequent seasons. For example, I vividly remember him going down “injured” on the touchline and then rolling himself back onto the pitch to have play stopped during the first half of the 4-4 Champions League draw in 2009. So, then, given the way they’ve reacted to Mo Salah in recent days, you might be forgiven for expecting the English football media to have had mixed feelings about Drogba, right?

Wrong. As recently as 2015, he was awarded the Football Writers’ Association Tribute Award.

None of this is to diminish Drogba as a person or his charity work, which appears to be tireless, or to refute that he was one of the best centre-forwards of the Premier League era. This is about balance in how players are portrayed for similar, even lesser behaviours. The big-top, three-ring circus that has been under construction around Salah since Wednesday, a player with a strong track record of staying on his feet (perfect examples against Bournemouth and Napoli recently), is both excessive and no less rigorous than anything Drogba was ever subjected to for behaviour that was systematic across the best part of a decade, behaviour to which the player himself explicitly admitted in 2006.

If individuals want to continue carrying themselves with the kind of inflated self-importance that so many of these pundits do, they should at least have the integrity to be objective, to treat every incident with the same level of importance, and to actually try and promote a consistent ideology when it comes to diving and marginal penalty decisions, not what suits them at any given moment in time depending on who is involved. Outright diving or going to ground on contact, different concepts in and of themselves, are either manifestations of cheating that need to be eradicated from the game, or clever ways to gain an advantage. Pick a position and stick to it.

My own preference would always be for honesty on the pitch, but only if it is across the board with the same rules for everyone both in how they are applied and in how such incidents are portrayed. On the latter point, I also have a keen preference for not having my intelligence insulted. This is precisely what Arséne Wenger was saying back in 2012 when, having seen Swansea awarded a questionable penalty during a 3-2 Arsenal defeat, he recounted Robert Pires’ infamous dive against Portsmouth during the Gunners’ unbeaten 2013/04 season. “Pires once dived against Portsmouth. For six months it was a story. Dyer dived and nobody said a word. If it doesn’t matter when Dyer dives, why does it matter when Pires dives?” Amen.

Speaking of Arsenal, a consistent position from the media might also partly, and mercifully, rid us of the kind of self-righteous nonsense that opposition supporters vomit out at times like these, emboldened by a level of objective analysis that is so rarely fit for purpose. For any Gunners supporter who feels aggrieved that Mo Salah was too quick and skilful for Sokratis to handle yesterday and feels that the Egyptian went to ground too easily, I have two words for you: Robert Pires. And here are another three: Eduardo da Silva. Arsenal were once forced to present a “lengthy dossier” to a UEFA appeals body in order to have the striker spared a two-match ban for making a three-course meal (and choice of tea/coffee) out of an Artur Boruc challenge against Celtic.

It’s not just them, of course. For some perspective, I would advise any Newcastle supporters upset that they lost 4-0 on Wednesday rather than 3-0 to go back and have a look at that famous 3-2 win over Barcelona back in 1997 and remind themselves of Asprilla’s full-length dive for the opening penalty. Manchester United supporters can have a look at Wayne Rooney’s dive that ended Arsenal’s unbeaten run in 2004, or remind themselves that Cristiano Ronaldo played for them for 6 years, or go back and revisit the time a highly-decorated former captain said of Ashley Young’s diving: “I think the guy’s a disgrace and if he’s a Man United player I’m a Chinaman. Absolute disgrace, he’s done it far too many times. Look at that. Absolute disgrace.” Chelsea supporters, I realise from first-hand experience, are coy about their own history in this regard, but please: Drogba? Robben? Gudjohnsen? Costa? Hazard? Too easy. And Tottenham supporters won’t have to go back very far, just watch a video of their last trip to Anfield.

We’re all hypocrites to some extent, and that’s ok, we’re football supporters; but the sanctimonious stuff does stick in the craw eventually.

In a broader sense, I’m not naive enough to expect the media not to seize on incidents like these to create their opportunistic narratives and click-bait, but this particular issue has long since become a boring one in the way that the media chooses to handle it. There is a study surely waiting to be done by someone (if it hasn’t been already) to take a one-season or two-season sample of penalties and categorise them into “stonewall”, “outright con” and “debatable”. I would be surprised if a large percentage didn’t fall into the latter category, and in that context it does referees and officials no good whatsoever to call a penalty “soft” when, in actual fact, what you mean is that it could have gone either way. Surely, then, it follows that there was merit in either potential course of action?

We’ll never get agreement on these decisions, so it’s pointless even discussing it most of the time. Just over a year ago, the vast majority seemed to agree with Sam Allardyce’s appraisal that Dejan Lovren’s nudge on Dominic Calvert-Lewin during Liverpool’s 1-1 draw with Everton was a penalty (“You can call it soft if you like, I don’t have a problem with that, but these days you can’t put your hands on an opponent in the box. Don’t mess with him, don’t touch him, don’t shove him.”) Now the same people are going on about football becoming a non-contact sport in the wake of the Salah decisions this week. Good grief, make up your minds.

A little under a month after the Calvert-Lewin penalty, incidentally, when Mason Holgate used his arm to bar Adam Lallana’s ingress to the Everton penalty area in an FA Cup tie, Allardyce’s outlook on hands in the box had undergone a dramatic 180° shift. Jürgen Klopp surely summed up what many of us would have been thinking: “I thought that both decisions weren’t penalties but everyone told me after the first one that it was a penalty, so I learned this.”

On Wednesday, days before he was tweeting about loving rock n roll, Carlos Puyol asked “¿Para cuando el VAR en la Premier?”, meaning “when is VAR in the Premier League?” shortly after the penalty decision against Newcastle. And after yesterday’s debacle for Arsenal, Unai Emery said “the two last goals, two penalties, I think it’s a lot for us. I think VAR is important. It’s coming next year because I think it’s going to help the referees to take better decisions.”

The implication was clear but, firstly, good luck with that — we’re coming off a World Cup year where the referee spent about 5 minutes at the sideline poring over footage of a marginal, subjective incident for France’s penalty in the final, one that some still swear he got wrong (and not all of them Croatian either). And secondly, all three penalties, especially Dummett’s funnily enough, would have had to have been given, regardless of VAR replays from even 50 angles. A different set of questions would have been asked otherwise.

Well, questions will always be asked. “Are there any good diving schools in London?” is a famous one that gave a group of football writers a good laugh back in the summer of 1994. I get the feeling there are quite a few diving schools around England these days, not least in one part of north London, but if one exists on Merseyside then they really need to get their act together because that’s still only 3 home penalties in over 14 months for one of world football’s most potent attacks. The good news for opposition teams is that Mo Salah will always try to score first if afforded the option, of that they can be certain in my experience. He’ll always back himself, and why wouldn't he? The real question is whether his opponents have the speed, of body and mind, to stop him fairly. That’s the question.

But hey, no worries if they can’t quite manage to answer it on their own — plenty in the football media will always be on hand to act as their “phone a friend”.
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Offline Bjornar

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Great post as usual E2K.

Everybody in England talks about diving, totally missing from the conversation about the game is talking about speculative cheating from defenders. Both the Newcastle and Arsenal fouls on Salah are examples of defenders  trying to speculate that if you foul "just enough" the man with the ball is faced with either being branded a cheat or losing his chance.

Massive blind spot in the conversation about this in England, seems to me both the German and Scandinavian punditry have a much better grasp on this. The "moralism" in the conversation is just such a red herring, as if its a case of the players needing to be "better people", and not about how the refereeing and the rules of the game work in the game currently.

Offline Jon2lfc

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My mate says there's always been an inherent racism/bigotry/xenophobia in British culture.

It tinges a lot of stuff, including footy journalism.

Remnant of the British Empire mindset??

Offline Iska

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I reckon it’s a folk memory of the game’s ancient roots in this country, so that unconsciously all of us still believe to some extent that a challenge doesn’t just have to be a foul to be penalised, but it also has to be enough of a foul.

So a forward taking it into his own hands and going down easily codes more or less the same as a forward taking a dive when there’s no contact at all.  They’re not the same at all obviously, but your gut instinct is that they’re both a bit cheaty, and if you don’t think too deeply about it or you like having an argument, or you’ve got some other axe to grind, then you’re in clover - you might be being stupid, but in our hearts, in this country, we just don’t believe you’re entirely wrong.

Offline Crimson_Tank

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Well written E2K and a great read.

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Offline TepidT2O

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A great reference to one of the greatest ever pieces of simulation in sport at the start there.

If you’ve never seen it, look it up.  Klinsman was like he’d hit a land mine.
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Offline Jon2lfc

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this discussion reminds me of that Sky Footy breakdown on the 'necessity of diving' that Gary Neville did a while back.
Good bit of analysis by him and may be still on YouTube.
If so, can anyone link it?


Offline TheFuturesRed

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this discussion reminds me of that Sky Footy breakdown on the 'necessity of diving' that Gary Neville did a while back.
Good bit of analysis by him and may be still on YouTube.
If so, can anyone link it?

Is this it?
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/7i6z5E41KDg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/7i6z5E41KDg</a>

Offline Ziltoid

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Another fantastic read E2K.

Offline El Lobo

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Great writing as usual sir

There’s absolutely a xenophobia in the attitudes of the media towards diving and divers. Personally I’d say the biggest culprits are those either English, or raised here. Alli, Kane, Zaha, Young, Sterling. Predictably it gets glossed over or ignored when they get done for it, or even worse you get fuckwits like Danny Murphy sitting in a studio with the aid of numerous camera angles and slow mos still going ‘duuuh it wasn’t a dive’.

I wish I could find something more recent but I can only find one from January about penalties won by individuals in the last five seasons. No doubt Kane is higher since then.

Top 10:

Vardy
Sterling
Zaha
Silva
Alli
Benteke
Hazard
Lennon
Kane
Fraser

Would suggest that there’s a xenophobia in regards to giving penalties too. In the build up to the World Cup Kane and Alli could do absolutely no wrong in that respect, despite going down easily on an almost fake by game basis.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline red vinyl

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I was half way down the op and thought who has written this,it brought back a lot of memories which people seem to forget. Skimmed back up to see and its E2K,wow what a quality read. Bravo.

Offline harleydanger

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My mate says there's always been an inherent racism/bigotry/xenophobia in British culture.

It tinges a lot of stuff, including footy journalism.

Remnant of the British Empire mindset??

Murdoch.

He has built an empire on othering. The culture of his media outlets extends to sports journalism.
WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE!

Normally a player can look great on tubes, but one of the things that's encouraging for me is just the amount of youtube videos on him

Offline Jambo Power

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people looking for some xenophobia angle shock........when everybody is as bad as one another for it.....but the professionals in charge carry the branding.

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I do mind if the DIVE, is an attempt by a player to gain an UNFAIR advantage by falling to the ground WITHOUT
any foul has been committed. But in the case of Salah in Arsenal / Newcastle game, the touch on Salah would
incur lack of ballistic continuity (the player moves farther than would be expected from the momentum
of the tackle) and DID reduce his chance of scoring opportunities.

The definition of the diving crime is IF someone tugs at your sleeve, or touch your back, or whiff a kick close
enough to your shin, you immediately trip yourself. The keywords there, "trip yourself".
Did Salah trip himself (I repeat - by himself), OR because of the contact that reduce his chance of scoring opportunities
after time after time after time he has been denied the gift of penalty. You know the answer.

We know most managers who know their players have dived, either defend them or ignore it.
BUT, but... As for Alli, as far as I know, nobody has told him to stop doing it, not a teammate, not a fan
and certainly not his manager has told him to cut it out. No.
But hey, if he did the same crime (the dive) playing for England to win a knockout game at a major
tournament, who would be heard complaining where everyone knows it's going to lead
the noise of national celebration?

Most of the Gooners will argue, to be strong and athletic like our Mohamed Salah and not only that but
he is full of skill and then to break down once you reach the penalty area seems absurd. In many ways it is.
But I one thing I will question them back is in Salah's case, "was it due to deceitful act in football or
did the defender raise his hands" to reduce his chance of scoring opportunities for the Liverpool's forward
who was ALREADY inside the penalty box?
End of story.

 :)  :)  :)







« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 08:02:01 am by NarutoReds »
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Offline Carra-ton

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Absolutely necessary, because Salah was staying on his feet whole of last year, and was getting pummeled with no penalty. You need to learn to be cute and go down at the first sign of contact, because if you try to carry on even after being fouled, there is no way the refs give you anything later.
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It is mindboggling. Did you know? Honorable 'Arry, Prince of Football, Claimer of Goals, etc etc, apparently got a yellow on diving last Saturday. It was mentioned in the Guardian article where Klopp's defending Mo from these ridiculous accusations. Guardian, in that article, even links to the Spurs - Wolves game report for reference, but I did not spot any reference to his caution for simulation there. Or elsewhere.

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Offline Lofty Ambitions

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It is mindboggling. Did you know? Honorable 'Arry, Prince of Football, Claimer of Goals, etc etc, apparently got a yellow on diving last Saturday. It was mentioned in the Guardian article where Klopp's defending Mo from these ridiculous accusations. Guardian, in that article, even links to the Spurs - Wolves game report for reference, but I did not spot any reference to his caution for simulation there. Or elsewhere.

Can't make it up.

Here's the quote:

Quote
But, on a day when Tottenham’s Harry Kane was cautioned for simulation and after Dejan Lovren earned Liverpool’s third penalty of the week when he was shoved by Sead Kolasinac, Klopp was adamant neither Salah nor his teammates deserve a reputation for diving.

Honestly, was anything about this said anywhere?

PS I actually upon second reading and really looking for it found a one-liner mentioning Kane was booked for simulation. Difficult to spot, as there's chapter after chapter waxing lyrical of his fine shot and what not.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 07:17:34 am by Lofty Ambitions »
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My mate says there's always been an inherent racism/bigotry/xenophobia in British culture.

It tinges a lot of stuff, including footy journalism.

Remnant of the British Empire mindset??

Well the Daily Express had a front page the other day referring to released papers from the political archives.

Headline was about how “Thatcher was proud our players never dived.”

Given the fact that they have done so much to cultivate a rise in racist xenophobic attitude and behaviour in this country, it’s dog whistle is almost audible. “Our brave lads never dived like that foreigner Egyptian” would have been more like what they wanted to say.

Great post, as usual E2K
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Offline McrRed

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Great post E2K. Enjoyed that.

There's been a couple of studies showing that referees and officials are disproportionately lenient with English players in this country. Anyone got any links to any of them?

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Brilliant again E2K.

Everybody in England talks about diving, totally missing from the conversation about the game is talking about speculative cheating from defenders. Both the Newcastle and Arsenal fouls on Salah are examples of defenders  trying to speculate that if you foul "just enough" the man with the ball is faced with either being branded a cheat or losing his chance.

Yep, in real time that the Newcastle one didn't look like a penalty but it's clear that Dummett pulls him back and halts his progress, even if it's temporarily. Defenders tend to get away with a lot, so I can see why they're surprised when penalties are given for something they think is 'soft'. Loved the highlighting of the  Calvert-Lewin/Lallana ones and the difference in reaction by Allardyce and Shearer following the FA Cup tie.

Perhaps I shouldn't have been surprised about the furore that followed the Salah one vs Newcastle, even though it was strange the BBC ran a story about how the incident won't be investigated. Given the the three penalties in two games (after none in 14 months at home in the league) I can see Salah being 'marked' now but we'll see, he didn't get many last season either and should have already gotten a couple this season that weren't given.

Found the Kane thing funny although sadly unsurprising too, no mention of him and his side's antics at Anfield and barely one about his blatant dive against Wolves.
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Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Beautifully articulate as always E2K. Much of it I agree with - there's clearly an bias towards English players when it comes to diving. Kane, Alli, Rooney, Gerrard and Owen, for example, all get/got much less scrutiny from the press than their foreign counterparts for dives.

I disagree with much of it too though. I think you've distorted a lot of events to fit the narrative you want to sell. For example, this bit on the media's coverage of the recent Kane dive:

Quote
The English media has taken a bit longer and isn’t quite there yet, the old values still in evidence when it suits, but they have certainly grown relaxed at the sight of their own players cheating, the most recent example being Danny Murphy producing a late Christmas miracle by magically conjuring meaningful contact to explain away Lord Kane’s booking for simulation against Wolves yesterday (although Alan Shearer at least admitted the obvious).


Here you've chosen Danny Murphy to represent the English media with just a slight nod at the end to Shearer as an afterthought. I actually think that was an example of the media castigating Kane. Firstly, the UK's flagship football show, Match of the Day, chose to include the incident in the match highlights even though, apart from the dive, no other relevant action took place in that phase of play. This is rare - MOTD doesn't usually go out of its way to show players who get booked for diving unless it's relevant to significant action, e.g. part of getting a yellow that leads to a red or whether it was part of a goal scoring opportunity. MOTD, however, did go out of their way to highlight Kane diving. This should have been the main takeaway from the coverage. The second takeaway should have been how the senior pundit, Shearer, went into depth about it being a dive. The third and least relevant takeaway should have been Murphy tagging on at the end. You chose to focus on that though to represent the media, which I think is inaccurate.


It think it's also worth noting that 'the media' aren't a homogeneous entity with a set narrative that they all abide by. You mention their coverage of Drogba's career and his subsequent FWA Tribute Award, like the media were in some way being hypocritical. As with everything, Drogba's career is nuanced. There's good, bad and ugly to him as a player - it's OK for different parts of the media to comment on different parts of his game - it's not hypocrisy. Also, even when commenting on the same specific part of his career, different journos are allowed different opinions on the same thing.


I don't really get what the Klinsmann bit's about either. Is it to represent how some clubs get more favourable coverage than others? "He's Spurs so he gets a free pass", that kind of thing? I don't actually see anything wrong with how the media dealt with him. Before he arrived he was getting absolutely pelted by the media for diving. He made a self deprecating joke about it a the start and then, in your own words, "Klinsmann kept his copybook relatively un-blotted during his single full season in England" so why shouldn't he have got the FWA Player of the Year award? He was brilliant that year. Too much insinuation going on when you say "but the laughter that greeted his initial quip about diving schools before he had even kicked a ball in anger for Spurs made you wonder whether it would have mattered if he hadn’t." regarding how the media probably won't have cared even if his copybook wasn't unblotted.


Truth is that most footy fans think their club is hard done by with regards to media coverage. I don't think Salah has gotten an especially rough ride in the press at all about diving for the penalties.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 01:19:28 pm by Xabi Gerrard »

Offline Titi Camara

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Belting read that buddy, my thanks as always  :wave

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Wonderful read

Just saw the inside Anfield video of the Newcastle game which had a slight different angle of the Salah tug. Dummett was actually running across Salah at an angle (behind him) and the pull was 1) a pull and 2) there was a torsion aspect to it as well (to Salah's recently injured shoulder) which would put him off balance a little more than if it was just a straight line tug from behind.

The most damning indictment is zero protest from any of the Newcastle defenders. All they did is a mini discussion amongst themselves, sort of pointing out the mistake to each other.


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Wonderful read

Just saw the inside Anfield video of the Newcastle game which had a slight different angle of the Salah tug. Dummett was actually running across Salah at an angle (behind him) and the pull was 1) a pull and 2) there was a torsion aspect to it as well (to Salah's recently injured shoulder) which would put him off balance a little more than if it was just a straight line tug from behind.

The most damning indictment is zero protest from any of the Newcastle defenders. All they did is a mini discussion amongst themselves, sort of pointing out the mistake to each other.

Compare the lack of argument with the ref, to the absolute state of Socratis, who kicked Salah twice and was still whinging and whining until told to shut up by Van Dyke in the tunnel
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Truth is that most footy fans think their club is hard done by with regards to media coverage. I don't think Salah has gotten an especially rough ride in the press at all about diving for the penalties.

Another viewpoint from Scandinavia:

While I agree that there´s a lot of biased nonsense spoken about football, including from LFC fans, for what it´s worth the coverage on Norwegian TV (which is often far from brilliant, as evidenced currently by a lot of super-partisan stuff about Solskjaer rocking the football world by getting fairly routine wins) was simply "that´s an obvious penalty, and so was that". This from Hangeland and Thorstvedt, both former PL players.

The fact that the Salah "dives" have become a talking point at all is enough to prove the OP´s point, IMO. It´s just ridiculous, and that´s the long and short of it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 07:36:32 pm by Bjornar »

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I wouldn't read too much into the singling out of Mo in the past week, he's just the big name to go after since its easy clickbait. Kane is currently the nation's favourite so the journos love him and won't say a bad word. Rest assured however, he will get stick if and when it suits the papers.

Simply put, if they believe going after a player is gonna get them significant hits, they'll do it.
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Here you've chosen Danny Murphy to represent the English media with just a slight nod at the end to Shearer as an afterthought. I actually think that was an example of the media castigating Kane. Firstly, the UK's flagship football show, Match of the Day, chose to include the incident in the match highlights even though, apart from the dive, no other relevant action took place in that phase of play. This is rare - MOTD doesn't usually go out of its way to show players who get booked for diving unless it's relevant to significant action, e.g. part of getting a yellow that leads to a red or whether it was part of a goal scoring opportunity. MOTD, however, did go out of their way to highlight Kane diving. This should have been the main takeaway from the coverage. The second takeaway should have been how the senior pundit, Shearer, went into depth about it being a dive. The third and least relevant takeaway should have been Murphy tagging on at the end. You chose to focus on that though to represent the media, which I think is inaccurate.

Point taken that Danny Murphy does not represent the media, which is something for which we can all be grateful, nor indeed does MOTD. But we’ll have to agree to disagree on the main takeaway from the coverage of Kane on Saturday’s show. The truth is that many of us would have put good money on a defence of the England captain being mounted on the show, despite the obvious nature of both the dive and the referee’s decision, and Murphy predictably obliged.

This is one of the key points my original post made — a lack of balance in the coverage of how specific incidents related to cheating, or alleged cheating, are covered by the media. Murphy is a regular contributor to the flagship show of one of the only TV channels in England to broadcast Premier League coverage, so I don’t think it’s unfair to consider him a totem of that for the purposes of what was a broad initial examination of the issue.

Some, like me, will naturally be irritated to have been proven right just a few nights after Murphy sat in Shearer’s seat and listened silently while colleague Phil Neville: (a) explicitly agreed that Paul Dummett “puts his arm there”, but (b) qualified that by accusing Mo Salah of “going down so easily” and (c) finished by saying the decision was “harsh”, a statement with which presenter Gary Lineker agreed. Now, I realise that Murphy doesn’t control Neville, but nonetheless, had he wanted to interject like Shearer did on Saturday I’m assuming he could have. Then a few nights later, we find him trying to invent a scenario whereby a tiny bit of collateral contact from the Wolves player after the ball was gone was enough to set Kane rolling along the ground holding his knees, only to hop up and challenge the referee when it became clear that he was being booked.

Although you’re absolutely correct that it is rare for MOTD to highlight a specific diving incident unless it is otherwise relevant to the action (e.g. a penalty or key free-kick is awarded in the process, or it results in a booking that subsequently becomes a red card), I am assuming that the producers decided to show the Kane incident for two reasons: (a) it was all over the media, social and otherwise, in the hours between the full-time whistle at Wembley and the show going on the air, therefore it was correctly considered relevant, and (b) the subject of diving was highly topical again in general because of the spotlight on Salah in the aftermath of the Newcastle game, a spotlight that MOTD itself had contributed towards the previous Wednesday.

I can’t agree, therefore, that the mere act of showing the incident counts as an example of one arm of the media castigating Kane in and of itself, and the manner in which it was subsequently analysed certainly wasn’t. The position taken by Murphy was intelligence-insulting, and if Shearer interjected I suspect it was only to avoid being tainted by association with what I and many others consider a cynical attempt to fudge the issue because of who was involved.

What I saw was a 100% cut-and-dried incident reduced to a 50-50 split, where the defence for the Tottenham striker was even afforded the opportunity to quip that the prosecution only wanted him booked so that he might be suspended for the Newcastle game. At face value, that comment could be taken as a dig at Shearer’s objectivity, thereby muddying yet further what should have been the most straightforward incident to analyse on a football pitch since El-Hadji Diouf decided to have a bit of a spit at a group of Celtic supporters. Murphy even managed to have the last word, likely because Shearer was either bemused or pissed-off, or both.

Incidentally, I understand from a post in another thread that Sky’s flagship highlights programme, Goals on Sunday, didn’t even mention the Kane booking:

Nice of Goals on Sunday to totally ignore Sir Harold Kane getting booked for diving in their weekly wankfest!

So while I suppose their willingness to show it at all does reflect well on MOTD, I do wonder if the position taken by Murphy and Sky’s reticence to even discuss the incident would have been afforded Mo Salah in the same circumstances.

Truth is that most footy fans think their club is hard done by with regards to media coverage. I don't think Salah has gotten an especially rough ride in the press at all about diving for the penalties.

I agree on your first point. The older I get, the more I realise that supporters of every club have an axe to grind with the media, although there is probably a whole other discussion to be had on the factors that can influence how the media as a whole will approach certain clubs at certain times in a real sense e.g. most were far more willing to push the fictional narrative that Rafa Benítez was “cracking up” after his infamous press-conference in early-2009 than recognise the inherent truths in what he said about Alex Ferguson and Manchester United, at the time the post powerful manager and club in England respectively. And few ever dared to openly question the integrity of Ferguson’s players, certainly not to to his face.

Furthermore, I would argue that the approach of your typical ex-Liverpool player in the mainstream media (i.e. excluding LFCTV) has changed little since Gérard Houllier said the following during his time in charge: “There are some players who get upset about what is said. They just can’t understand how a former player can be so critical of his own club. It always seems to be Liverpool under fire because, of course, so many former Liverpool players are employed by TV and radio. There are 22 currently working in the media as pundits — that’s a whole squad. Sometimes I envy Everton because they seem to get support from their ex-players even through the hard times.” So it comes as no surprise to me whatsoever that Danny Murphy would seek clemency for Kane and not Salah.

But my initial post wasn’t about “the club”, per se; in fact, it was an Arsenal-related example raised by Arséne Wenger that I used to best illustrate the media’s frequent lopsidedness on the issue (Robert Pires vs. Nathan Dyer). This is more about what I and others consider to be an imbalance between the respective manners in which specific incidents are being covered. The coverage of the Salah penalties against Newcastle and Arsenal , both fouls under the laws of the game, is in marked contrast to the coverage of similar incidents, or even more obvious instances of cheating, both now and in the past. The Kane dive against Wolves is a perfect recent juxtaposition, which is why I chose it.

Well, my position would be this: if Salah is a cheat, which is the obvious subtext of the media’s coverage since Wednesday, then they should fucking crown him a cheat. Scrawl it across his forehead, if they can find a legal loophole that allows public branding. But then they should go and do the same for Kane, do the same for Alli, do the same for Hazard and any other number of Premier League players, past and present.

I can’t agree that the coverage of Salah has been anything but rough over the past couple of days, given how straightforward the decisions were and that the FA have even had a look and decided there’s nothing to see here. I feel sympathy for a player who regularly stays on his feet when he could easily hit the deck (e.g. Cook raked his studs along the back of his leg at Bournemouth prior to Salah scoring Liverpool’s second, Koulibaly had a grab of his arm against Napoli prior to him scoring his team’s first that night, and Ospina barrelled into him at the Kop end at 1-0 which would have been a certain spot-kick if he had gone down).

And I also worry about how rough it’s going to get for him from here, because this kind of mud sticks. His manager has already been forced to publicly defend him, asking rhetorically “do we need blood for a proper penalty?” It may not affect a team that did just fine despite not being awarded a home penalty in over 14 months, but nonetheless, the player doesn’t deserve his reputation being sullied like that when there is so little justification for it, and especially when one of the highest-profile pundits on British television can be heard making laughable excuses for a different player whose behaviour was far more flagrant.

In my more cynical moments, I would call it outright bias, conscious subjectivity in a line of work that supposedly calls for the exact opposite. But even if I give them the benefit of the doubt, the schizophrenia and selective judgements of the football media generally confuses the absolute living daylights out of me.

It think it's also worth noting that 'the media' aren't a homogeneous entity with a set narrative that they all abide by. You mention their coverage of Drogba's career and his subsequent FWA Tribute Award, like the media were in some way being hypocritical. As with everything, Drogba's career is nuanced. There's good, bad and ugly to him as a player - it's OK for different parts of the media to comment on different parts of his game - it's not hypocrisy. Also, even when commenting on the same specific part of his career, different journos are allowed different opinions on the same thing.

I don't really get what the Klinsmann bit's about either. Is it to represent how some clubs get more favourable coverage than others? "He's Spurs so he gets a free pass", that kind of thing? I don't actually see anything wrong with how the media dealt with him. Before he arrived he was getting absolutely pelted by the media for diving. He made a self deprecating joke about it a the start and then, in your own words, "Klinsmann kept his copybook relatively un-blotted during his single full season in England" so why shouldn't he have got the FWA Player of the Year award? He was brilliant that year. Too much insinuation going on when you say "but the laughter that greeted his initial quip about diving schools before he had even kicked a ball in anger for Spurs made you wonder whether it would have mattered if he hadn’t." regarding how the media probably won't have cared even if his copybook wasn't unblotted.

I accept that “the media” is not a homogeneous entity with a set narrative that they all abide by, but they frequently do a very good impression of it. See the case of Salah, Mo, for alleged crimes of grand larceny in Anfield, Liverpool on 26 and 29 December 2018.

Apologies if I wasn’t clear enough as to the relevance of Klinsmann (absolutely nothing to do with Spurs, incidentally, nothing whatsoever) and Drogba in the initial post. Broadly-speaking, they are a representation of my aforementioned and continuing confusion regarding the media’s position on cheating, using the broader lens of history to provide an additional layer or two of context.

Not only am I positing the arrival of Klinsmann as the moment when the English game first clutched a bonafide, grade-A cheat to its collective bosom, I am illustrating that the reporters assembled for his first press-conference laughed at his mockery of behaviour that had, as recently as four months earlier, turned the San Siro in Milan into a circus and robbed Alessandro Costacurta of a Champions League medal. I couldn’t tell you how many journalists were present, but given that Klinsmann was the highest-profile foreign player to arrive in England up to that point, I would imagine the room was packed. And they laughed when he asked about diving schools. If Mo Salah cracked that joke tomorrow, you and I both know that he would need every bit of that blistering pace to get out of town ahead of the pitchfork-armed posse that would immediately form.

Now, I’m not being moralistic about this. Genuinely, I couldn’t give a fuck that they laughed. I’m using the example to illustrate two things: (a) there was a time when a good representative sample of the English football media clearly found that kind of behaviour funny, in marked contrast to the position taken on Salah in recent days, and (b) this strongly suggests that the arrival of a charismatic World Cup winner would have dulled their critical faculties enough that old Jürgen could have opened his own travelling diving school in the stadiums of England across 1994/95 and it wouldn’t have mattered (just my own hunch, of course). And I’m saying that if attitudes were that relaxed in the middle of the 1990’s, I simply don’t understand why they have suddenly become so puritanical in 2018. If it’s purely for click-baity reasons, then how pathetic?

Drogba’s career may be nuanced, but so is Salah’s, albeit the Egyptian has been in English football for about a quarter of the time that the Ivorian was (he has nontheless broken records that the former Chelsea striker never managed, meaning that he has already secured a significant legacy). If Drogba deserves his career to be considered “in the round”, taking the systematic, self-declared cheating he engaged in for the best part of a decade and balancing it carefully against his considerable, undeniable footballing talent, then so does Salah. But that’s not happening for Salah right now. A player who, as I have outlined, rarely goes down even on contact, is being protrayed as a cheat, or potentially a cheat, for being fouled in the box for two penalties in games that his team subsequently won by an aggregate score of 9-1. Drogba got a tribute award from these same people three years ago.

The timescales are very different, but the principle remains the same, at least in my mind: if “making a meal” of contact is as heinous a crime as it has been portrayed in the last few days, then there is no retrospective rehabilitation of Drogba’s reputation that could make an FWA Tribute Award anything less than hypocritical in my eyes. His cheating was that bad. If, however, that kind of behaviour is acceptable to the extent that arguably the worst diver in the history of English football (given that Klinsmann kept his nose clean during his stay) can be subsequently celebrated by a majority (if not all) of the Football Writers’ Association, then why is Mo Salah’s virtue such a hot topic as 2018 becomes 2019? Have we not sorted this out and come to a consensus yet?

No. Evidently, we haven’t. We have, instead, watched for years as the broader football media has vacillated between extreme acceptance of cheating to win (e.g. laughing at Klinsmann’s clowning, celebrating Owen’s gamesmanship in successive World Cups in 1998 and 2002, honouring Drogba’s career-long con-artistry) and strong, often moralistic condemnations of such behaviour (e.g. the celebration of Robbie Fowler’s honesty in 1997, the demonisation of Simeone in 1998). Salah vs. Kane is simply a microcosm of a larger tale, one which is likely to last long enough for Limahl to eventually re-release Never Ending Story as a cash-in theme song.
« Last Edit: January 1, 2019, 03:30:13 am by E2K »
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Lovely stuff sir. 🙂
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I'm sure I've seen MOTD highlight diving incidents before where they only lead to a booking for the individual who dived. Usually they happen in the box anyway so there's always a claim for a penalty but it's not uncommon for them to show something like this.
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Brilliant piece again E2K, I've long given up on trying to make sense of the ever changing stance on the subject.  IMO neither of Salah's were dives since there was definite contact, Newcastle one seemed soft to me, Arsenal one was stonewall tho' as the defender kicked him.  Anyway I just don't get how the media/pundits can bang on for years about no pen if you don't go down and then criticise players for doing just that.

Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Thanks for the excellent reply mate, appreciate the trouble you went to! I agree with a lot of it, especially what you say about how the media did fawn in unison to Ferguson. There’s a couple of things I still disagree with though :D

Firstly is that I don’t think ‘Salah being a diver’ is a thing in the media. Sure, you’ll see a few places saying he went down too easily or that they were soft penalties, but that’s ok, it happens a lot with players from all clubs. I don’t think he’s got a rep for diving like, say, Klinsmann (more on him later!) and Pires had. And even then, I think the press has been mixed on the incident – for the Arsenal penalties the BT commentator, co-commentator and studio ref all said they were pens. Also for the Newcastle penalty, from the media I’ve consumed the general consensus is the defender was an idiot for putting his hand on him in the box, it was a pen albeit soft. I don’t think there’s anything untoward about any of that, it’s the kind of thing that gets mentioned week in week out whenever a penalty’s given (unless of course it’s an indisputably stonewall penalty, which none of ours were).

The Salah pen V Arsenal may have generated a touch more chat but that’s because Sokratis made such a song and dance about it, plus all of us swooning over VvD putting him in his place in the tunnel.

All the coverage these incidents are getting pales in comparison to the good coverage Salah got for not going down V Bournemouth when every other player on the planet would have. I honestly don’t see there being a “Salah dives” type narrative going on. In general too, the press we’ve been getting over the last few weeks has been overwhelmingly positive.

Second thing I disagree with is on the effect Klinsmann had regarding the media’s perception of diving. I wouldn’t read too much into the press laughing at his joke at his unveiling – it was genuinely funny (obviously now it seems a bit of a cliched gag but at the time it was quite witty). I don’t think their laughter represents anything other than a good self depricating joke by a charming and urbane man. It was a bit of a PR masterstroke by Klinsmann - being able to laugh at yourself is very endearing to Brits. I mentioned a few months back when Kane was being a prick with his goal claim thing that he should have taken a leaf out of Klinsmann's book.

Exactly this. It's not like there hasn't been a precedent for nipping piss taking in the bud by joining in on the joke - Klinsmann and Eto'o, for example,



I expected Kane to do similar - I really thought that the next time one of his teammates scored (with him being nowhere near the trajectory of the ball), he'd wheel away and start celebrating, doing the old Gerrard'06 name pointing. Everyone would have laughed along with him and we'd have moved on. The end. He's just keeping it in everyone's mind though.

The laughter definitely wasn't them tacitly condoning diving.

I also think that the FWA award isn’t ever the media’s way of showing acceptance for any sins, I think they just give it to the player who was the best that season (although I’ll never get my head around the Parker decision). Ditto Suarez – I don’t think them giving him the award in 13/14 can be in any way construed as them accepting biting players, they gave it to him because he was the best footballer that year.

Apart from that though, I agree :)

Offline Hazell

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Lovely stuff sir. 🙂

Nice to see you back mate :wave
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Offline keyop

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Great OP E2K, adding to the smorgasbord of great writing on this site in recent weeks.

I think the hardest penalties to judge are where the contact is on the upper body. With the exception of a straight shove in the back, most defenders often tug at the shirt, the waist, shoulder, arm, or hand, which scrubs off a little speed and momentum of the attacker but perhaps not enough for them to go down. However, its still cheating, its still gaining an advantage, and it often results in a goal being prevented and no penalty awarded.

When a player is scythed down by a sliding tackle, at least the referee has a clear cut decision (and hopefully a clear view). But a player going down when contact has been made with their upper body will often look like a dive, even though the clear intention of the defender is to stop a goal without playing the ball. Salah going to ground after the Dummet challenge didn't look like an entirely natural movement (which is why it was questioned), but it was still a foul and therefore a penalty.

Goals like Salah's against Bournemouth are very rare - usually either the player goes down, or they stay up and can't get a good enough shot away. The fact that Salah stayed up and scored is testament to his talent and honesty, which makes the recent media backlash even more bizarre - given he is so clearly one of the good guys and there are dozens of other players who cheat more often and more blatantly. Fernandinho - whilst clearly a great player, is without doubt a serial cheat in the Sergio Busquets mould - but does it so subtly and under the guise of 'taking one for the team', that it somehow becomes acceptable behaviour, even though its still cheating.

However, Suarez also did it all the time, and whilst I often forgave him due to my obvious bias (and his undeniable other talents), I was well aware of my own hypocrisy and will admit to being more than a little embarrassed on several occasions, and unable to genuinely defend his actions to anyone that called him out on it.

Although clearly VAR will be used for much more than just penalty shouts, it will be very interesting to see how it changes all of this when its introduced, and how officials choose to use it. Technically speaking, if a player feels contact (however slight), and they go down, then a VAR replay could result in a penalty. The mere action of the player going down could prompt the VAR review unless there is a clear and obvious dive, so we may well see many more players going to ground in the early stages of its introduction to give the referee a decision to make.

However, most of this is largely irrelevant to our own club, given how few penalties we've been awarded, and also given how we have topped (or been near the top) of the fair play league for a long time now. If we win the league this year we will probably have been the most honest team to have done it in the last 15 years bar Leicester.
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Offline Byrnee

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that’s still only 3 home penalties in over 14 months for one of world football’s most potent attacks.

This is the thing driving me nuts, besides the fact that both Salah’s last two penalties are obvious fouls. Besides the fouls he withstood and didn’t get anything for vs Bournemouth and Burnley. This is fucking mad and the fact that I haven’t heard one pundit or journalist mention it shows the issue.

The media are far too willing to jump on an anti-diving bandwagon with little to no evidence. Especially if the player in question is high profile (we love to knock them down) and foreign.

« Last Edit: January 1, 2019, 08:56:07 pm by Byrnee »
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