Author Topic: Cuban protest  (Read 4393 times)

Offline bigbonedrawky

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Cuban protest
« on: July 14, 2021, 01:13:26 am »

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2021, 07:24:57 am »
About time… 70 years of dictatorship is it?
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
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Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2021, 09:17:36 am »
About time… 70 years of dictatorship is it?
18 months of pandemic I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner, bizarrely for a nation who's doctors and medics do so much around the World they have'nt got enough vaccine's and they can't afford to buy any. Their economy is in the pan, their main source of income sugar and tourism has bottomed out and Venezuela who have problems of their own ,can't really afford to help them out with their energy problems. Then they have the hurricanes to deal with and Trumps sanctions are still crippling them.
That's the kind of stuff that causes revolutions...


Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2021, 10:05:47 am »
70 years of dictatorship likely to have some effect too I would suggest
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2021, 10:08:19 am »
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2021, 10:18:50 am »
Good luck to them.

Live long and prosper... They've got the first half sorted.

Offline Bobsackamano

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2021, 10:53:53 am »

Live long and prosper... They've got the first half sorted.

They certainly have, not that far behind the UK.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2021, 11:20:54 am »
They certainly have, not that far behind the UK.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy


Although behind Costa Rica, Panama and - weirdly - Colombia!
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2021, 11:30:57 am »
Anyone been to Cuba? I went a couple of times in the 90s. It's fascinating and highly recommended. One tip though. Do not encourage your black friends to go. On the second occasion we went as a group of six and M, born and bred in London and of Afro-Caribbean heritage, could not get a room in a hotel - despite having pre-booked. Nor could she get served a drink in a couple of places in Havana. They do not like black people inside nice hotels - unless they're bellboys or serving food etc.   
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Offline Bobsackamano

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2021, 11:49:41 am »
Although behind Costa Rica, Panama and - weirdly - Colombia!

I was surprised at how well Columbia ranked however the increase in life expectancy since 2000 is a dramatic 5.6 years so they have only recently gone past Cuba. Sadly Venezuela is going the opposite way and is one of only 2 countries where life expectancy has decreased in that time frame.

Offline classycarra

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2021, 11:55:53 am »
I was surprised at how well Columbia ranked however the increase in life expectancy since 2000 is a dramatic 5.6 years so they have only recently gone past Cuba.

Presumably one of the positives of the negotiated peace process(es)?

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2021, 12:11:56 pm »
Anyone been to Cuba? I went a couple of times in the 90s. It's fascinating and highly recommended. One tip though. Do not encourage your black friends to go. On the second occasion we went as a group of six and M, born and bred in London and of Afro-Caribbean heritage, could not get a room in a hotel - despite having pre-booked. Nor could she get served a drink in a couple of places in Havana. They do not like black people inside nice hotels - unless they're bellboys or serving food etc.   

Sounds like Spain.

Online Wild Romany Boy

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2021, 12:16:16 pm »
I went a couple of times in the early noughties with a boyfriend, who is black, and it was fine.

It is certainly no utopia though but maybe it has gotten a little better than before.

Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2021, 11:38:01 pm »
Anyone been to Cuba? I went a couple of times in the 90s. It's fascinating and highly recommended. One tip though. Do not encourage your black friends to go. On the second occasion we went as a group of six and M, born and bred in London and of Afro-Caribbean heritage, could not get a room in a hotel - despite having pre-booked. Nor could she get served a drink in a couple of places in Havana. They do not like black people inside nice hotels - unless they're bellboys or serving food etc.   
Surprising I know one local family who apart from last year have been going every year since the 70s when they had No Black's No Irish No Dogs to contend with at home.
As with all things in life it's best to not judge the many, by the actions of the few. 

I hear one of the protestors has died and hundreds have been arrested, don't know much more than that really. I'll get my translators on the case see what's been said around the Islands. 

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2021, 11:52:32 pm »
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2021, 02:11:45 am »
Anyone been to Cuba? I went a couple of times in the 90s. It's fascinating and highly recommended. One tip though. Do not encourage your black friends to go. On the second occasion we went as a group of six and M, born and bred in London and of Afro-Caribbean heritage, could not get a room in a hotel - despite having pre-booked. Nor could she get served a drink in a couple of places in Havana. They do not like black people inside nice hotels - unless they're bellboys or serving food etc.   
We were there in 2008 and we found it to be the most authentic place we've ever been to in the world. An absolutely amazing place with the most amazing people we've ever come across anywhere. One of the safest places we've ever been to as well. Strangely enough, given the propaganda spouted by the likes of America, the Cuban people were the happiest and most friendly we've met anywhere. Given their undoubted hardships, that's quite remarkable. They despise the USA far, far more than they ever did Castro. Talking to Cubans was a real eye-opener.

We tend never to go to the same faraway place twice, given that there is a lot of the world to see and only so much time and money available to do so. We'd go back to Cuba in a heartbeat, though. Hopefully we will do before America gets its grubby paws on it again and ruins it totally and turns it into a giant McNasty's drive-thru or American Mafia hangout like it was until Batista was kicked out by Castro and Guevara.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2021, 03:21:10 am »
I went in the mid 2010s. Mostly was in four city/towns - Havana, Trinidad, Cienfuego and Playa Larga (the latter being the bay of pigs!). Can safely say I didn't hear a single negative word about Americans from the Cubans whose places we stayed in or the people running the bars and restaurants and hostels we visited, only some stuff about Italians Spaniards and Germans. Sadly also some very racist views on people from China from several people in Havana too (there's a chinatown from when there was a reasonable population, but clearly after china pulled out they were persona non grata. Very fair to say that it was known we weren't American too (I expect there's a lot they could have said about brits that they held back!).

We had a great time though, and totally share SoS's view on the vast majority of Cubans we encountered. Incredibly hospitable and warm people for the most part. Unfortunately away from the restaurants and the bars and the live music I couldn't say that people seemed happy (not to say they weren't good company).

We travelled around the 26 July (important anniversary for castro's ruling class) and cos of all the national holidays had to get by without a bank in Havana a couple of days and when one was open spending a couple of hours queuing with Cubans looking to make simple deposits and withdrawals you didn't need to eavesdrop too much (or be fluent) to understand the frustration. Although police with machine guns hanging about quietened the loud ones.

Wish I could say it was safe. It certainly was in Cienfuegos (although didn't get to explore much) and Playa Larga, but Trinidad and especially Havana had a real sinister vibe at night unfortunately. It was easier to avoid during the day, but still constantly had to be watchful and also quickly learned not to trust the people supposedly recommending something but then trying to get you into a dark alley, or into the 'tobacco factory tour to buy cheap cigars from workers' where you either got grifted to buy dodgy cigars or faced the heavy implication the big guys there were going to take your money anyway (one of the benefits of literally not having access to any money at all is being able to show your empty pockets when they try to ramp the pressure - also never actually felt it would turn violent).

One of the nights out in Havana we went for a 'last beer' in a place we hadn't picked out in advance. Enjoyed that, had a bit of live music. Resisted the pressure of the women sent to stand with us and ask repeatedly for us to buy drinks (again, having no access to money made it an easier 'I really couldn't even if I wanted to' get out) and walked home. Hour or two later mate gets up to take a piss and finds me in a heap on the floor of the bathroom - got up to puke and passed out, as my beer was drugged. In Havana it got to a point where we decided we weren't going to stop and linger anywhere that wasn't on the route we wanted to go, because if you paused for a second someone would be on you in an instant and asking you for money in some way or another. During daylight it felt entirely safe, and we were seasoned travellers (relatively fresh from being held up at gunpoint in south america - and knew we were comparatively safe in Cuba). But the tone was very capable of shifting quickly in Havana and Trinidad.

None of this is a knock of Cuba, it's a beautiful country and people. But the economic reality of life for Cubans, when I visited, was very hard to switch off from. The entirety of the small number of negatives we encountered were because of economic hardship. In no way was anything personal, it was just the harsh reality of life there.Hard to forget making friends with a guy in Trinidad who looked after a horse and rose some people up the hills on a mini carriage from it - he was a trained vet but there weren't enough jobs and he could barely afford to live on the salary when he formerly had one, so had to take on his 'cowboy' role for the tourists.

People whose houses we stayed in were talking to us in positive terms about some of the liberalisations of the market under Raul (in terms of owning property and forming your own business). Also improvements in access to mobile phones (just phones, not data) for some people. As I said, the people and the scenery were stunning, but it wasn't a holiday that was easy to switch off from for all sorts of reasons (including feeling like a dick when you can't afford to give money to people who really want and need it).

Absolute favourite experience of the weeks there was watching the Industriales baseball game. Absolutely noone gave a shit about us gringos (except that we were too tall so sometimes got asked to move!), noone saw us as tourists that they needed to be nice to or appeal to. It was just Cubans enjoying themselves and unwinding watching their team, and that was a great spot to be it.

[no idea where this essay came from, sorry for rambling. Ccouldn't sleep and ended up thinking back on some fun memories out loud]
« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 03:23:39 am by Classycara »

Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2021, 05:13:05 pm »
It is an amazing place to visit, like I said. At least if you're white. Havana has a buzz. Trinidad is astonishing, both for its baroque architecture and its stunning setting. And the less visited eastern tip of the island is a marvel too. The people are friendly, especially if they think you might somehow be American. And of course you're very safe. Attacking a foreigner would bring an immediate police response, which isn't the case with all (non-political) crimes on the island. Political crimes are a different matter, but as a tourist you wouldn't be concerned with those.

It's also like wandering around a 1950s film set. Indeed this is the main charm I suspect for many western visitors. It was for us. The buildings are falling apart, but in a charming way. The cars are ancient gas guzzling models held together by rubber bands. But they look great. There are no chain restaurants and hotels on the Malecon. In fact barely any illumination at all at night. And this makes it look like the promenade at Llandudno. Beautiful in its way, but a bit dead. There's plenty of capitalism (in fact dollars are wanted everywhere and everything, it seems, is for sale), but no corporations. We met loads of doctors and medical staff, but always driving taxis or serving us drinks, since they earn more from tips than they can in the hospitals.

The best places to stay are the little private pensions. These were just opening when I first went to Cuba - a thriving little private sector where the owners are genuine entrepreneurs and take pride in what they're offering (great food, clean beds, prompt service, a smile). Do NOT stay in state hotels. No one ever does any work! And that includes cleaning.

You can't avoid the slight Potemkin Village feel of Havana and Trinidad. All the shit is cleared out of sight. Therefore, as a tourist, you can have a great time. But it's not true of the interior where you can't avoid the seamier side of Cuba. The second city, Santiago, has a very beautiful, colonial-era main square. But as you drink your mojitos on the veranda in the afternoon and gaze out into 'all of human life' down below, it begins to dawn on you that the square is one massive, open air, brothel. The armed police are everywhere but so are the teenage girls and their pimps. The buyers - the paedophiles - are obviously European visitors and the cops, presumably, are there to protect them and to take their rake off. I suppose that's what the lure of dollars does to a broken economy. But it was the busiest market place we saw on the island. What it's like now, I have no idea.

I wouldn't wish further stasis on Cuba. Only revolutionaries, with their classically nostalgic and conservative outlook, would want it to remain untouched by the modern world and modern ideas. Good luck to the reformers. I hope they begin to get what they want.   
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Offline scatman

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2021, 06:08:34 pm »
It is an amazing place to visit, like I said. At least if you're white. Havana has a buzz. Trinidad is astonishing, both for its baroque architecture and its stunning setting. And the less visited eastern tip of the island is a marvel too. The people are friendly, especially if they think you might somehow be American. And of course you're very safe. Attacking a foreigner would bring an immediate police response, which isn't the case with all (non-political) crimes on the island. Political crimes are a different matter, but as a tourist you wouldn't be concerned with those.

Exactly what the locals told us there, they wouldn't dare put their hands on a foreigner for fear of being put in prison without an end date. Going to Cuba was the best holiday I've ever had and I saw the same kind of things as you mostly. Was pretty galling that the man making my pasta at the buffet was a doctor but he earns so much more because of the tips he'd get from tourists. Incredible number of Canadians there.
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Offline cormorant

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2021, 05:31:56 pm »
Without wanting to derail the thread, this is absolutely mental:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57875322

Some weird brain injury/disease caused by directed microwaves. Has all the hallmarks of military R&D written all over it judging by the BBC's initial report that I've linked. No comment personally on the validity of it or otherwise, other than that the BBC don't report until it's double verified.

Edit. Never heard of this up to now, but looks like a certain world power *might* be under the spotlight. Wow.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome&ved=2ahUKEwir_KfpxOrxAhUBoVwKHVdgAecQFjAAegQIGhAC&usg=AOvVaw3FbCH-zNLzs1EFqXLGdzNX
« Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 05:58:29 pm by cormorant »
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Offline Jon2lfc

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2021, 05:41:45 pm »
We were there in 2008 and we found it to be the most authentic place we've ever been to in the world. An absolutely amazing place with the most amazing people we've ever come across anywhere. One of the safest places we've ever been to as well.
I'm just curious.. but have you ever travelled to countries in the Middle East and Asia?
Lots of travellers would say the same things about places there too.
E.g. I met Syrians well before the war and found them superbly warm, hospitable and caring. Amazing culture and people. Pakistanis were similar. And Indonesians.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2021, 06:14:35 pm »
Without wanting to derail the thread, this is absolutely mental:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57875322

Some weird brain injury/disease caused by directed microwaves. Has all the hallmarks of military R&D written all over it judging by the BBC's initial report that I've linked. No comment personally on the validity of it or otherwise, other than that the BBC don't report until it's double verified.

Edit. Never heard of this up to now, but looks like a certain world power *might* be under the spotlight. Wow.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome&ved=2ahUKEwir_KfpxOrxAhUBoVwKHVdgAecQFjAAegQIGhAC&usg=AOvVaw3FbCH-zNLzs1EFqXLGdzNX
I recall the reports at the time of similar events in Cuba (I lived in the US at the time). Even then, it was not as big a story as it should have been. And yes, it would come as no surprise to me that a country other than Cuba is the more likely subject for their investigations.
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Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2021, 07:16:09 pm »
I'm just curious.. but have you ever travelled to countries in the Middle East and Asia?
Lots of travellers would say the same things about places there too.
E.g. I met Syrians well before the war and found them superbly warm, hospitable and caring. Amazing culture and people. Pakistanis were similar. And Indonesians.
No, I've not been to that part of the world, unfortunately. Just Europe and the Caribbean, although my partner is far more well travelled than I am.
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Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2021, 10:30:46 pm »
Some of the coverage around this seems borderline propaganda. Ridiculous seeing the US government pointing elsewhere like they don't have some responsibility for their sanctions.

MAGA, the Proud Boys etc all having presences at protests in the US too. Some very surprised liberals that they're now suddenly brushing up next to white supremacists lol
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Offline CalgarianRed

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2021, 05:44:18 pm »
Some of the coverage around this seems borderline propaganda. Ridiculous seeing the US government pointing elsewhere like they don't have some responsibility for their sanctions.

MAGA, the Proud Boys etc all having presences at protests in the US too. Some very surprised liberals that they're now suddenly brushing up next to white supremacists lol

Pure propaganda by the US media on this. The right or left does not have single mention of the US embargo which is the main reason Cuba is struggling. Its a sad situation. The mayor of Miami went on Fox and "suggested" air strikes on Cuba. Like WTF, what right does the US have to bomb a sovereign country if they don't pose a threat to them.
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2021, 05:46:57 pm »
Pure propaganda by the US media on this. The right or left does not have single mention of the US embargo which is the main reason Cuba is struggling. Its a sad situation. The mayor of Miami went on Fox and "suggested" air strikes on Cuba. Like WTF, what right does the US have to bomb a sovereign country if they don't pose a threat to them.
I haven’t read it, but would they not have been suggesting bombing the infra structure of a totalitarian dictatorship?

I don’t think it’s the right thing to do, but it puts a different slant on the argument.
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Offline CalgarianRed

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2021, 05:55:08 pm »
I haven’t read it, but would they not have been suggesting bombing the infra structure of a totalitarian dictatorship?

I don’t think it’s the right thing to do, but it puts a different slant on the argument.

Well then why doesn't US attack Saudi Arabia, UAE and Qatar as well as they are totalitarian dictatorships with a worse track of human rights and slavery. Saudis were responsible for 9/11 let's not forget. US is happy to ally with dictatorships if it serves them. The hypocrisy is unreal and common people fall for it.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 05:56:45 pm by CalgarianRed »
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2021, 06:02:41 pm »
Pure propaganda by the US media on this. The right or left does not have single mention of the US embargo which is the main reason Cuba is struggling. Its a sad situation. The mayor of Miami went on Fox and "suggested" air strikes on Cuba. Like WTF, what right does the US have to bomb a sovereign country if they don't pose a threat to them.

An insane suggestion, of course. But I also think you're wrong that the main reason Cuba is "struggling" is because of a trade embargo. In one sense the US embargo has kept the Cuban dictatorship artificially alive over its miserable decades. The perfect alibi that plays right into the hands of a police state.
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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2021, 06:12:04 pm »
An insane suggestion, of course. But I also think you're wrong that the main reason Cuba is "struggling" is because of a trade embargo. In one sense the US embargo has kept the Cuban dictatorship artificially alive over its miserable decades. The perfect alibi that plays right into the hands of a police state.

Another reason to end the embargo then.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2021, 06:23:13 pm »
Thought this was interesting

Quote
‘I’m surprised it took so long’: Cubans find anger in their souls
Thousands took to the streets last week in unprecedented protests. Our writer meets some of those trying to force change

Ruaridh Nicoll
There’s a man from the government playing love songs in the park. Orlando Fuentes has a table, an awning against the hard Caribbean sun, and a sound system from which floats Silvio Rodríguez’s Cita con Ángeles. A woman says that she can’t listen, that it’s a beautiful song ruined by being played at too many government rallies.

After 16 months of pandemic and a week of unprecedented protests, the Cuban government wants to soothe the anger. Music is being played in parks across the country.

“I call for solidarity and not to let hatred take over the Cuban soul, which is a soul of goodness, affection and love,” tweeted Cuba’s president Miguel Díaz-Canel.

Only days before he had called supporters on to the streets to face down those protesting against shortages of food and medicines, rising prices and hours-long power cuts, people he’d called “vulgar, indecent and delinquent”.

The protests started last Sunday in the town of San Antonio de los Baños, on the outskirts of Havana. Residents were complaining of blackouts that lasted more than eight hours.

Videos of people chanting “libertad” (freedom), swiftly spread on social media, on a mobile internet that Cubans have only been allowed to use for the past three years. Protests flared the length and breadth of the island. Police cars were turned over and rocks were thrown. A few of the hated MLC stores – where necessities are sold only in foreign currencies – were looted.

Hundreds of arrests were made, often documented in harrowing videos. Nothing like it had been seen in Cuba since the 1959 revolution, shaking the population and the government. Raúl Castro, Fidel’s 90-year-old brother who retired as first secretary of the communist party last April, came back to advise.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the Florida Straits, Francis Suarez, mayor of Miami, suggested the US government consider airstrikes.

Ana, a museum curator in her late 20s, doesn’t want to give her real name. She was at home in her neighbourhood of 10 de Octubre last Sunday when she heard a noise. “Outside were the people of my neighbourhood claiming their rights,” she told me. This was around 3pm.

Police cars overturned in the street in Havana during the demos.
Police cars overturned in the street in Havana during the demos. Photograph: Yamil Lage/AFP/Getty
“We were 60 people when we left,” she said. “There were policemen but everything was peaceful. People were saying ‘we want medicines, we want food’. We walked towards the centre, about 7km away. People had gone out without water, without money, without their IDs.”

Ana reached El Capitolio, the vast building at the edge of Havana’s old town that is a copy of the US Capitol. There, she says, she met the police in numbers: “We also felt the presence of the quick response brigades. They are state security but are dressed as civilians. They were the first to provoke.”

She pushed on towards the Malecón, Havana’s corniche. “There we faced the special brigades, special units for repression. By the Museum of the Revolution there were masses of people dressed as civilians with sticks in their hands.” She estimated the protesters at 2,000. “There was pepper spray. There was a lot of violence.”

In every Cuban kitchen, there is a pressure cooker. It’s how the population makes its staple rice and beans. Most are old and worn – everyone knows how dangerous they are.

Cuba
Five years ago Barack Obama tried to ease the pressure in Cuba and sweep away what he called the “last remnants” of the cold war. He stepped off Air Force One at Havana’s airport, asking: “¿Que bolá Cuba?” - What’s up Cuba? He reopened the US embassy, but drew the line at ending a 60-year-old embargo Cubans call “El bloqueo”.

His successor took a different approach. Donald Trump banned cruise ships from visiting, pursued companies that traded with the island, placed Cuba back on a list of state sponsors of terrorism, and most crucially stamped down on the diaspora’s ability to send money back to their families.

Cuba, meanwhile, is crumbling. After 62 years of revolution, agricultural land has returned to bush, sugar mills are metal skeletons, railway tracks rust. It still has its school system, its arts and its fabled health service, but all exist within a fading infrastructure, starved of money and technology.

Boosted by Obama’s detente, but having lost Venezuela’s financial backing, Cuba’s communist rulers bet on tourism. An economic wing of the military built vast numbers of hotels. But then the pandemic hit and the economy contracted by 11% in 2020.

The state refuses to cede control of importing and exporting, more worried now about the destabilising effect of US capital than any invasion. The problem is that without tourists, the government can’t pay its bills abroad so there isn’t enough food coming into the country.

Cuba created its own vaccines against Covid but the virus is now raging through the population. Medicines are traded on WhatsApp and Telegram groups. Sixty vitamin C tablets cost $32, although the price depends on people’s access to US dollars or euros. The poorest, on the wrong end of a currency black market, pay the most. The message boards are harrowing. Recently a young woman was asking what she needed to stop her breasts producing milk: her baby had died of Covid.

When asked about the protests almost all Cuba watchers say, as Canadian lawyer and long-time resident Gregory Biniowsky put it: “In truth I’m surprised it took so long.”

Wimar Verdecia is a cartoonist and graphic artist. He attended a protest last November which, while only gathering 300 artists outside Cuba’s Ministry of Culture, is now seen as a watershed in a country where such protests are banned.

An anti-Cuban government protest in New Jersey, US on 13 July.
An anti-Cuban government protest in New Jersey in the US on 13 July. Photograph: Eduardo Muñoz/Reuters
He went to witness Sunday’s march, watching it pass through Centro Habana, struck but not surprised by the number of young taking part. “All young people want to migrate because it’s a country where there is no future, where you can’t think of a prosperous and dignified life.”

But videos show it was by no means just the young taking part. Magazine editor Maykel González Vivero, who said he was manhandled by police, wrote on Twitter of “an older woman in her 60s… wiping the blood from her nose”.

Images of the police dragging away protesters by their necks have shocked the country. Many protesters disappeared without trace into police stations and interrogation centres. On Friday, Michelle Bachelet, UN high commissioner for human rights, called for the prompt release of all those detained.

Concerned by the videos circulating, the government cut the internet for much of the week, put those hurt by thrown rocks and looting on television, and created a segment on the news dedicated to the false rumours being passed round.

But state media chose not to show images of the protesters, unless windows were being broken or cars overturned. A group of protesters who turned up at the TV station to offer their views were bustled away by a chanting mob.

Such a response has led to a withering response from many of Cuba’s most famous cultural figures. Leo Brouwer, Los Van Van, Haydée Milanés, Leoni Torres, Adalberto álvarez, Carlos Acosta all spoke out. Members of the Elito Revé orchestra wrote: “Violence is the last resort of the incompetent.”

In this country that takes huge pride in its arts, and whose artists are often silenced if they cross the authorities, it felt like another first in a week full of them.

On Thursday Joe Biden finally weighed in. He called Cuba a “failed state”, and made plain that he wouldn’t be following Obama’s lead.

In the past, in times of great hardship on the island, say after the collapse of its sponsor, the Soviet Union, Cubans flooded north into the US. Alejandro Mayorkas, the US homeland security secretary, last week scuppered that idea, saying those who took to the sea would be returned.

It appears the US is sticking to Trump’s plan. “What do they actually want?” asks Carlos Alzugaray, Cuba’s former ambassador to the EU. “Do they want major riots and the collapse of the Cuban government? Do they really want that? What happens next?”

What is certain is Obama’s detente is truly dead. In the neighbourhood of 10 de Octubre, Ana is avoiding the police, although she says she did nothing wrong. “I have a cousin who, for 72 hours, we didn’t know where he was. Yesterday we learned that he is in a prison, accused of inciting public unrest.” She says there are still many people unaccounted for. “I have to be attentive because several times the police have come here. I have no police record so I don’t know what they have come for.”

No one knows what comes next, or at least no one I spoke to. Instead they talked of the fear and sadness in the country. When asked, people would shake their heads and say, “it’s too much” or even start crying.

In the park, Orlando Fuentes told me he was there, playing music, to “remind people we are here”. He meant the government. Silvio Rodríguez, Cuba’s greatest troubadour, was still singing, “Guardian angels fly, always jealous of their vows, against abuses and excesses.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/im-surprised-it-took-so-long-cubans-find-anger-in-their-souls?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=edit_2221&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1626599319
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2021, 06:24:22 pm »
Another reason to end the embargo then.

Absolutely.
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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2021, 07:01:48 pm »
I think there are some truisms and misconceptions about the embargo which aren't helpful in understanding the frustrations of those protesting in Cuba.

Medicine and agriculture/food are not part of any embargo. There's a huge amount of food imported to Cuba. In 2020 the top three countries imported from were the EU (as a bloc), Brazil and USA.

One of the trigger points of the protest has been the ruling party's failure to invest in healthcare/public health, including declining to both join the COVAX vaccine scheme to get free doses or to purchase any other vaccines. For reasons currently unknown and hard to rationalise. They've chosen to gamble on production of vaccines in Cuba alone, which weren't available when they could have accepted aid or bought doses.

Take a look at how little has been invested according to the ruling party's statistics

"Here are statistics published by the ONEI (National office of statistics) Where it shows the regime investing almost 50x more money in foreign investments  in comparison to public health, education, and pretty much everything else. #SosMatanzas #SOScuba"
(source: https://twitter.com/Americavaldess/status/1414039756283973637 - I believe it's 2020 data, but not certain yet)

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2021, 07:22:09 pm »
I think there are some truisms and misconceptions about the embargo which aren't helpful in understanding the frustrations of those protesting in Cuba.

Medicine and agriculture/food are not part of any embargo. There's a huge amount of food imported to Cuba. In 2020 the top three countries imported from were the EU (as a bloc), Brazil and USA.

One of the trigger points of the protest has been the ruling party's failure to invest in healthcare/public health, including declining to both join the COVAX vaccine scheme to get free doses or to purchase any other vaccines. For reasons currently unknown and hard to rationalise. They've chosen to gamble on production of vaccines in Cuba alone, which weren't available when they could have accepted aid or bought doses.

Take a look at how little has been invested according to the ruling party's statistics

"Here are statistics published by the ONEI (National office of statistics) Where it shows the regime investing almost 50x more money in foreign investments  in comparison to public health, education, and pretty much everything else. #SosMatanzas #SOScuba"
(source: https://twitter.com/Americavaldess/status/1414039756283973637 - I believe it's 2020 data, but not certain yet)

I had understood that they weren't able to get enough of the materials to produce/administer the vaccines? In particular syringes.
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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2021, 08:56:38 pm »
I guess the ones in the video who are carrying the big sticks as the cops cheer them on are simply people who have a better grasp than the protestors of the Marxist theory of economics. And the ones who are kicking the shit out of people lying on the ground must be those Cubans who fully understand the Marxist concept of false consciousness.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article252828088.html

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2021, 09:28:09 pm »
An insane suggestion, of course. But I also think you're wrong that the main reason Cuba is "struggling" is because of a trade embargo. In one sense the US embargo has kept the Cuban dictatorship artificially alive over its miserable decades. The perfect alibi that plays right into the hands of a police state.

I agree, the Cuban government is a piece of shit. And I hope the protests lead to change towards democracy. But US media and politicians calling for an intervention is insane, Let the Cubans solve their own issues. Ending the US embargo would be a good start.
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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2021, 09:34:06 pm »
I guess the ones in the video who are carrying the big sticks as the cops cheer them on are simply people who have a better grasp than the protestors of the Marxist theory of economics. And the ones who are kicking the shit out of people lying on the ground must be those Cubans who fully understand the Marxist concept of false consciousness.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article252828088.html



Those shithouses with the sticks are sadly reminiscint of the scenes on the metro in Hong Kong where China-affiliated politicians encouraged gangs (triads?) to beat the shit out of citizens. Cowardly scum.

Some of the high profile american people involved in the Black Lives Matter umbrella movement have effectively come out in support of the regime and made absolutely no mention nor complaint about the violence of the police. The cognitive dissonance required to be involved in an organisation fighting (amongst other things) police/state violence but saying nothing about all the footage coming out of Cuba in the last week is ridiculous. Ideology can be ugly as fuck.

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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2021, 09:39:29 pm »
Those shithouses with the sticks are sadly reminiscint of the scenes on the metro in Hong Kong where China-affiliated politicians encouraged gangs (triads?) to beat the shit out of citizens. Cowardly scum.

Some of the high profile american people involved in the Black Lives Matter umbrella movement have effectively come out in support of the regime and made absolutely no mention nor complaint about the violence of the police. The cognitive dissonance required to be involved in an organisation fighting (amongst other things) police/state violence but saying nothing about all the footage coming out of Cuba in the last week is ridiculous. Ideology can be ugly as fuck.

That's a good comparison. All mobs are terrifying, as are all riots. But government mobs and police riots are the worst because the legal system exists to back them up and the political system exists to give them medals and pensions.

Anyone connected with BLM who supports the Cuban dictatorship is obviously a twat of the first order. They are simply saying they approve of police brutality, but it must be the right police department.
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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2021, 10:32:16 pm »
Those shithouses with the sticks are sadly reminiscint of the scenes on the metro in Hong Kong where China-affiliated politicians encouraged gangs (triads?) to beat the shit out of citizens. Cowardly scum.

Some of the high profile american people involved in the Black Lives Matter umbrella movement have effectively come out in support of the regime and made absolutely no mention nor complaint about the violence of the police. The cognitive dissonance required to be involved in an organisation fighting (amongst other things) police/state violence but saying nothing about all the footage coming out of Cuba in the last week is ridiculous. Ideology can be ugly as fuck.

Have you a source? Just curious.


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Re: Cuban protest
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2021, 12:25:02 am »
Those BLM statements just play into the hands of everyone who calls them a Marxist organisation. I feel sorry for Cubans but their problems are way beyond just being down to the embargo. Their most valuable exports have due to the pandemic suffered and that has led to huge issues including the ability to import food
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