Author Topic: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right  (Read 38269 times)

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #120 on: May 18, 2020, 02:40:51 pm »
Indeed. Its no coincidence that the States, UK and Brazil are doing terribly after voting in their governments. The people of these three nations are idiots.

Yep.  Although not quite as bad, I would definitely put the UK in the same group as the US and Brazil.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #121 on: May 18, 2020, 03:22:46 pm »
Indeed. Its no coincidence that the States, UK and Brazil are doing terribly after voting in their governments. The people of these three nations are idiots.

Brazil, UK, US,  Russia and Italy all have terrible numbers, all led by populists or governments with similar anti-science leanings

Online Andy82lfc

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #122 on: May 18, 2020, 03:27:42 pm »
Yep.  Although not quite as bad, I would definitely put the UK in the same group as the US and Brazil.

At least.

There's an argument to say us and the US are worse. A whole mass of Brazils population, who all have to vote by law, are sadly hugely uneducated. The UK supposedly has a much higher level of education. One voted repeatedly for continuing social inequality, cuts to services and a right wing party, along with cutting it's legs off from the EU because of immigrants an stuff. The other had the choice between a proven corrupt, criminal party and a populist barbarian, but now at least it looks like a lot are seeing that it was a big mistake.

Offline Libertine

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #123 on: May 18, 2020, 03:31:48 pm »
Brazil, UK, US,  Russia and Italy all have terrible numbers, all led by populists or governments with similar anti-science leanings

Bit harsh on Italy. Five star may have some idiots attached, but it's a much improved government since they dumped Salvini. And PM Conte seems a decent and educated guy.

Italy suffered from being an early hotspot. None of the other have that excuse.

Offline classycarra

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #124 on: May 18, 2020, 05:46:42 pm »
You're all welcome to your views of course, but the idea that Italy and UK governments actions are remotely comparable to Brazil and US isn't rational.

Their presidents are encouraging people to break science and health advice, against the social distancing recommended by the health advisors. And before their cases have even peaked in the vast majority of their states. Russia is doing similarly as badly as Brazil (cases doubling in around 11 days), though I'm less familiar with what they've been doing aside from knowing they didn't do their usual VE day mass gatherings.

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #125 on: May 18, 2020, 05:51:24 pm »
You're all welcome to your views of course, but the idea that Italy and UK governments actions are remotely comparable to Brazil and US isn't rational.

Their presidents are encouraging people to break science and health advice, against the social distancing recommended by the health advisors. And before their cases have even peaked in the vast majority of their states. Russia is doing similarly as badly as Brazil (cases doubling in around 11 days), though I'm less familiar with what they've been doing aside from knowing they didn't do their usual VE day mass gatherings.

Ok Boris.  ::)

Offline classycarra

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #126 on: May 18, 2020, 06:01:27 pm »
Ok Boris.  ::)

Excuse me for giving a shit about my american and brazilian friends, and not insulting their intelligence by suggesting the UK's response is in any way similar

The lack of a single scientific point arguing what I've said is telling. Killer Heels cited her belief system, Rafa alluded to some anti-science leanings within the government and you joke I'm like Boris because I can tell the difference between our bumbling Prime Minister and Trump/Bolsonaro not only ignoring public health measures but actively fighting against (and sacking) them.

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #127 on: May 18, 2020, 06:14:52 pm »
Excuse me for giving a shit about my american and brazilian friends, and not insulting their intelligence by suggesting the UK's response is in any way similar

The lack of a single scientific point arguing what I've said is telling. Killer Heels cited her belief system, Rafa alluded to some anti-science leanings within the government and you joke I'm like Boris because I can tell the difference between our bumbling Prime Minister and Trump/Bolsonaro not only ignoring public health measures but actively fighting against (and sacking) them.

You are correct we don't sack public health officials whose advice the government dislikes. No the likes of Calderwood and Ferguson just get outed by the right wing media.
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Offline McrRed

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #128 on: May 18, 2020, 06:19:45 pm »
Boris has espoused and backed policies that have led to the deaths of thousands. He's done that unashamedly. Please don't underestimate exactly how bad this government is and how far along the path to dictatorship we have travelled.

Bolsonaro is a nut job. But so is Boris, dressed up in clowns clothing.

My daughter lives in Brazil. I worry for her and her friends. But I also worry for us over here we lead the European charts for all the wrong reasons and that lead is going to grow.

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Offline classycarra

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #130 on: May 18, 2020, 06:30:15 pm »
You are correct we don't sack public health officials whose advice the government dislikes. No the likes of Calderwood and Ferguson just get outed by the right wing media.

Not really sure how relevant that is to the discussion Al.

Have the government unilaterally told the people to ignore the lockdown advice and I've missed it? Have the government told people to inject themselves with Dettol? To use a drug that's harming people based on bad science? To ignore health advice and 'confront the virus like a man dammit not a boy'? Has Matt Hancock resigned because the government are undermining his message? Has Chris Witty been sacked by the government? Has the government complained that Wales and Scotland are making up figures to make Johnson look bad? Has Johnson incited encourage or lead a mass gathering of 'protests/rallies', including deliberately blocking traffic outside a hospital?

That's what people are comparing the UK government to.

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #131 on: May 18, 2020, 06:53:02 pm »
Not really sure how relevant that is to the discussion Al.

Have the government unilaterally told the people to ignore the lockdown advice and I've missed it? Have the government told people to inject themselves with Dettol? To use a drug that's harming people based on bad science? To ignore health advice and 'confront the virus like a man dammit not a boy'? Has Matt Hancock resigned because the government are undermining his message? Has Chris Witty been sacked by the government? Has the government complained that Wales and Scotland are making up figures to make Johnson look bad? Has Johnson incited encourage or lead a mass gathering of 'protests/rallies', including deliberately blocking traffic outside a hospital?

That's what people are comparing the UK government to.

The difference for me is that Johnson is kept on a far tighter leash. Who knows what he would have said if he was allowed to actually talk. We are talking about a man who wasn't even allowed to speak during his own leadership campaign. Is kept away from the daily government press conferences and showed his true colours with his farcical briefing last Sunday.

Why tell people to break the lockdown advice when you have made it so complicated they can't possibly follow it anyway. Stay at home, don't stay at home. 
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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #132 on: May 20, 2020, 09:00:31 am »
The UK isn’t comparable to the US and Brazil though, apparently.  ::)

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #133 on: May 20, 2020, 10:48:03 am »
Strictly speaking I think the likes of Belgium have a higher death rate than the UK don’t they? We just have the highest numbers (which is terrible in itself).

Offline Sammy5IsAlive

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #134 on: May 20, 2020, 11:11:40 am »
The UK isn’t comparable to the US and Brazil though, apparently.  ::)

If you go off the official numbers the UK (521 deaths/million pop) is still behind Italy (532) and Spain (594). Although we will almost certainly overtake them in the next couple of weeks which I assume is why the government is not making itself a hostage to fortune by pointing this out.

The US is still well behind those countries in terms of death rate (283 deaths/million). The last time I compared the US to Europe as a whole the death rates were broadly comparable.

Brazil is actually still behind Ecuador and Peru in South America in terms of death rates. Although they are clearly heading in the wrong direction quickly.

Offline Iska

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #135 on: May 20, 2020, 12:45:13 pm »
If you go off the official numbers the UK (521 deaths/million pop) is still behind Italy (532) and Spain (594). Although we will almost certainly overtake them in the next couple of weeks which I assume is why the government is not making itself a hostage to fortune by pointing this out.

The US is still well behind those countries in terms of death rate (283 deaths/million). The last time I compared the US to Europe as a whole the death rates were broadly comparable.

Brazil is actually still behind Ecuador and Peru in South America in terms of death rates. Although they are clearly heading in the wrong direction quickly.
Death rates per capita isn’t a very useful measurement though, because outbreaks don’t really happen across a whole country, they happen fairly separately in a metropolitan area.  A smaller, denser country with an outbreak is always going to look worse than a big spread-out country with an outbreak.  You’re only comparing like with like if the urban/rural split is similar and all the big country’s areas are being hit.

Offline classycarra

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #136 on: May 20, 2020, 12:46:44 pm »
The UK isn’t comparable to the US and Brazil though, apparently.  ::)

Firstly that's not what I said, despite your eyerolling ;D

Secondly your argument relies on an incorrect meme that's spreading misinformation. Whoever wrote it managed to get the claim about the US/world wrong, the claim about UK/Europe wrong, and the Brazil/Latin America claim wrong. It's not a strong case you're making!

Thirdly, in the period since my last post that you disagreed with the president of the US has suggested he's taking a dangerous medicine for an illness he says he doesn't have. And the in Florida public health workers in the state gov't have been sacked for producing a dashboard presenting accurate information on COVID. And Trump has said their world leading cases record is a 'badge of honour' because of the quality number of tests they're performing. In Brazil Bolsonaro, continues touting that same unsafe drug Trump 'is taking' as an effective treatment, and has ordered his military to ramp up production of it. Citizens can buy the drug from legitimate health insurance companies, without prescription or any indication they have the infection.

It's fair to say you're arguing from an even weaker position than you were before.

Offline Sammy5IsAlive

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #137 on: May 20, 2020, 12:54:49 pm »
Death rates per capita isn’t a very useful measurement though, because outbreaks don’t really happen across a whole country, they happen fairly separately in a metropolitan area.  A smaller, denser country with an outbreak is always going to look worse than a big spread-out country with an outbreak.  You’re only comparing like with like if the urban/rural split is similar and all the big country’s areas are being hit.

Agree with that to an extent - I think it is a measure that becomes more useful as time goes on. I'd say that at this stage comparisons between the major European countries and between the US and Europe overall are valid.

Despite all its flaws, as a comparative measure between countries it is still far better than raw mortality numbers.

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #138 on: May 20, 2020, 01:20:58 pm »
Firstly that's not what I said, despite your eyerolling ;D

Secondly your argument relies on an incorrect meme that's spreading misinformation. Whoever wrote it managed to get the claim about the US/world wrong, the claim about UK/Europe wrong, and the Brazil/Latin America claim wrong. It's not a strong case you're making!

Thirdly, in the period since my last post that you disagreed with the president of the US has suggested he's taking a dangerous medicine for an illness he says he doesn't have. And the in Florida public health workers in the state gov't have been sacked for producing a dashboard presenting accurate information on COVID. And Trump has said their world leading cases record is a 'badge of honour' because of the quality number of tests they're performing. In Brazil Bolsonaro, continues touting that same unsafe drug Trump 'is taking' as an effective treatment, and has ordered his military to ramp up production of it. Citizens can buy the drug from legitimate health insurance companies, without prescription or any indication they have the infection.

It's fair to say you're arguing from an even weaker position than you were before.

If you think the government are doing a good job and don’t compare to the US and Brazil in how they have handled this then fair enough but it looks like your on your own on this one judging by how many replied disagreeing with you.

Boris has done a great job! All care homes have been safe! Lockdown rules and boundaries have been clear throughout!

Offline Elmo!

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #139 on: May 20, 2020, 01:23:49 pm »
If you think the government are doing a good job and don’t compare to the US and Brazil in how they have handled this then fair enough but it looks like your on your own on this one judging by how many replied disagreeing with you.

Boris has done a great job! All care homes have been safe! Lockdown rules and boundaries have been clear throughout!

It's not binary. It's perfectly possible for the UK government to be doing a piss poor job with the virus and still not be at the same level of batshit crazy as Trump and Bolsonaro. Classycara is certainly not alone in thinking that.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #140 on: May 20, 2020, 03:35:48 pm »
It's not binary. It's perfectly possible for the UK government to be doing a piss poor job with the virus and still not be at the same level of batshit crazy as Trump and Bolsonaro. Classycara is certainly not alone in thinking that.

I think the general concensus is that our government isn't on the same level as the US and Brazil, but is in the same group (right-wing, populist, c*nts).

If you disagree, then that's fair enough.  I guess that makes two of you.

Offline Elmo!

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #141 on: May 20, 2020, 03:42:55 pm »
I think the general concensus is that our government isn't on the same level as the US and Brazil, but is in the same group (right-wing, populist, c*nts).

If you disagree, then that's fair enough.  I guess that makes two of you.

No i agree with that. What I disagree with is the insinuation that because Classsycara recognises the differences between the UK and the USA and Brazil, that means they think that

Boris has done a great job! All care homes have been safe! Lockdown rules and boundaries have been clear throughout!

Offline Sammy5IsAlive

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #142 on: May 20, 2020, 03:46:21 pm »
I think the general concensus is that our government isn't on the same level as the US and Brazil, but is in the same group (right-wing, populist, c*nts).

If you disagree, then that's fair enough.  I guess that makes two of you.

Three of us!

I'd much much rather be in the UK under the current Tory Govt than in the US/Brazil under Trump/Bolsonaro.

There is plenty wrong with our government, both in general and in terms of their response to Covid-19. But it is small fry compared to the kinds of stuff that Trump/Bolsonaro get up to.

Offline classycarra

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #143 on: May 20, 2020, 03:46:36 pm »
If you think the government are doing a good job and don’t compare to the US and Brazil in how they have handled this then fair enough but it looks like your on your own on this one judging by how many replied disagreeing with you.

Boris has done a great job! All care homes have been safe! Lockdown rules and boundaries have been clear throughout!

Mate, it's not a great look to be ignoring that you've accidentally spread lies in a conversation about Trump and Bolsonaro (two icons of post-truth) and your response is to pivot your mistake into a false dichotomy attack on someone else. We all have a shared responsibility to preserving the truth at a time when cynical people are taking advantage of misinformation.

It's not binary. It's perfectly possible for the UK government to be doing a piss poor job with the virus and still not be at the same level of batshit crazy as Trump and Bolsonaro. Classycara is certainly not alone in thinking that.

Spot on Elmo, thanks for expressing it so well.

I think the general concensus is that our government isn't on the same level as the US and Brazil, but is in the same group.

If you disagree, then that's fair enough.  I guess that makes two of you.

Doesn't seem like the general consensus. On this page alone posts from AndyMuller, rafathegaffa83, a treeless whopper, Al 666, Andy82lfc and you have said different.

Edit: Sammy and Elmo are expressing it far better than me, and I'm not really meaning to argue since we all want the same things, so I'll leave it there.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #144 on: May 20, 2020, 04:08:39 pm »
Three of us!

I'd much much rather be in the UK under the current Tory Govt than in the US/Brazil under Trump/Bolsonaro.

There is plenty wrong with our government, both in general and in terms of their response to Covid-19. But it is small fry compared to the kinds of stuff that Trump/Bolsonaro get up to.

I've never said they are the same, just that they are in the same ball park, which they are.

One of the big differences between countries is not so much the ideology, but the governing systems.  The societies are very different too.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 04:16:12 pm by Red-Soldier »

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #145 on: May 23, 2020, 01:43:47 am »
Brazil court releases foul-mouthed Bolsonaro video

Quote
Brazil's Supreme Court has released a video showing President Jair Bolsonaro expressing frustration that he was unable to change security officials and vowing to protect his family.

The video forms part of an investigation into allegations that the president attempted to replace senior members of the federal police.

Mr Bolsonaro denies any wrongdoing.

The growing political crisis comes amid concerns that Brazil could be the next epicentre of the coronavirus pandemic.

On Friday the country recorded 1,001 new deaths, bringing its total to 21,048, and it has the second highest number of cases in the world with more than 330,000.

Two health ministers have left their posts in the space of a month after publicly disagreeing with the government's handling of the crisis.

Addressing his cabinet in the expletive-laden footage filmed in April, Mr Bolsonaro says: "I've tried to change our security people in Rio de Janeiro officially, and I wasn't able to. That's over. I won't wait for my family or my friends to get screwed.

"If one cannot change the law enforcement official, one changes the boss. If not his boss, then the minister."

Brazil's public prosecutor is investigating allegations by former justice minister Sergio Moro that Mr Bolsonaro fired the head of the federal police because he wanted someone in the role who would provide him with police intelligence reports.

The president's sons are under investigation over alleged wrongdoing. They include Senator Flavio Bolsonaro, who is being investigated for alleged corruption.

Responding to the Supreme Court's decision to release the footage, Mr Bolsonaro wrote on Facebook that he had been referring to members of his own personal security and not senior police officers. There was "no indication of interference in the federal police," he said.

Quote
Mr Moro, the former justice minister, stepped down last month after Mr Bolsonaro fired federal police chief Mauricio Valeixo - an ally of Mr Moro - without giving a reason for the decision.

Accusing the president of wanting to install a new federal police chief who would provide him with intelligence reports, he said providing such information "is not the job of the federal police".

Days later, Brazil's top public prosecutor requested clearance to investigate the allegations made by Mr Moro.

Mr Moro is a popular figure in Brazil. He is a former judge who oversaw the country's biggest anti-corruption probe, which uncovered billions of dollars of bribes and led to the convictions of dozens of high-profile business leaders and politicians.

The sound of pot-banging protests rang out in cities across Brazil after his resignation was announced.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-52779998

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #146 on: May 23, 2020, 02:39:42 am »
Fucking hell.

Boris isn't anywhere near Trump or Bolsonaro.

:D

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #147 on: June 7, 2020, 05:34:29 am »
Brazil removes online data on pandemic, hiding soaring deaths

Here is a further update from Reuters on Brazil, which has removed from public view months of data on its Covid-19 epidemic.

The health ministry in Brazil - which has the world’s second-largest coronavirus outbreak - removed the data from a website that had documented the epidemic over time and by state and municipality.

The ministry also stopped giving a total count of confirmed cases, which have shot past 672,000, more than anywhere outside the United States, or a total death toll, which passed Italy this week, nearing 36,000 by Saturday.

“The cumulative data ... does not reflect the moment the country is in,” Bolsonaro said on Twitter, citing a note from the ministry. “Other actions are underway to improve the reporting of cases and confirmation of diagnoses.”

Bolsonaro has played down the dangers of the pandemic, replaced medical experts in the health ministry with military officials and argued against state lockdowns to fight the virus, hobbling the country’s public health response. Neither Bolsonaro nor the ministry gave a reason for erasing most of the data on the covid.saude.gov.br website, which had been a key public resource for tracking the pandemic.
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Offline Buggy Eyes Alfredo

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #148 on: June 7, 2020, 06:28:54 am »

Racism in Brazil: The death of a five-year-old

In the midst of the coronavirus pandemic, Brazil is experiencing its own version of "Black Lives Matter." The death of a five-year-old black boy in Recife has reignited the discussion about racism in the country.

 
"While the #blacklivesmatter hashtag does the rounds of social media, here in Brazil we've lost another black child because of the deeply rooted racism in our society," writes the historian Larissa Ibúmi. "These are still the same colonial structures that degrade black women to the servants of white mistresses."

Ibúmi was responding to the death of Miguel Otávio Santana da Silva, a tragic incident that occurred on June 3 in Recife, capital of the Brazilian state of Pernambuco. Mirtes Renata Souza, a domestic servant, arrived for work on the fifth floor of a luxurious condominium. Schools were closed due to coronavirus measures, so she brought her five-year-old son Miguel Otávio Santana da Silva with her.

Souza then took the dog out for a walk, as instructed by her employer, Sarí Gaspar Côrte Real, leaving her son behind in the apartment. But the boy wanted to follow his mother, and Côrte Real let him take the elevator by himself.

Accusation of manslaughter

The condominium's security camera footage shows that the boy got out of the elevator on the ninth floor, and climbed through a window onto a balcony railing. Shortly afterwards, he fell to his death. His mother's employer has been charged with manslaughter by criminal negligence – and is already free on bail of €3,450 ($3,900).

In an interview with Brazilian TV station Globo, Miguel's mother said, "My employer often entrusted her children to me. Unfortunately, in the moment when I entrusted her with my son, she didn't have the patience to look after him and get him out of the elevator."

Miguel was Mirtes Renata Souza's only child. After his death, social networks were flooded with expressions not only of grief and shock but also of hatred and anger. Politicians and activists from all over Brazil posted comments with the hashtag #justicapormiguel (Justice for Miguel). An online petition got more than 680,000 signatures in less than 24 hours.

The pop singer IZA commented on her Twitter account, which has 2.5 million followers: "Unfortunately, the story of Miguel is a real-life tragedy. While Mirtes, his mother, endures the worst possible pain, Sarí, the boss, pays bail and is free to return home. What if it were the other way around?"

IZA.   ✔   @IzaReal
A história do Miguel infelizmente é uma tragédia real. Enquanto Mirtes, a mãe, carrega a maior dor possível nas costas, Sarí, a patroa, paga fiança e está livre para voltar pra casa. E SE FOSSE AO CONTRÁRIO? #JustiçaPorMiguel #VidasNegrasImportam

'Cursed upper class'

The rapper, writer and activist Joyce Fernandes wrote on Facebook and Instagram: "A young life was ended by this cursed elitist white and decadent upper class that buys everything with money they inherited from the masters who enslaved my ancestors."

Fernandes, who performs in Brazil under the stage name "Preta rara" (Rare Black), is revered by millions of black Brazilian women. Until 2009, she too was a domestic worker. She started the Facebook page "Eu, empregada doméstica" (I, a domestic worker), wrote a book of the same name, and the activist is now a frequent guest on TV shows.

Meanwhile, a statement from the National Federation of Domestic Workers (FENATRAD) emphasized the negligence of the employer, Sarí Gaspar Côrte Real: "It is typical of the contempt for and objectification of the lives of black Brazilians. This says a lot about our country, the legacy of slavery, and the racism that has not been overcome."

Only seven years ago, on June 1, 2013, a law came into force in Brazil that put domestic workers on the same legal footing as other employees for the first time: the so-called "PEC das empregadas." Until then, domestic workers were considered "second-class" employees, who could not, for example, claim overtime or unemployment benefits.

Coronavirus and Brazil's class-based society

Yet despite achieving equality in law, discrimination against domestic workers in Brazil continues in practice. That has become particularly apparent during the coronavirus crisis.

The first victim of COVID-19 in Rio de Janeiro was a domestic worker: The 63-year-old diabetic Cleonice Gonçalves, who caught the virus from her employer, who had become infected on holiday in Italy in March. The employer was tested after her return, but she didn't tell her housekeeper that the test had been positive. Gonçalves died on March 19 in hospital in a suburb of Rio.

Mirtes Renata Souza's employers also caught the coronavirus. Sérgio Hacker, Sarí Gaspar Côrte Real's husband, is the mayor of a town near Recife. In a selfie video recorded on April 22, he explained that he and his wife had tested positive for COVID-19. Yet, despite this, their housekeeper was still required to come in for work.

Many Brazilians doubt that the couple will really be held accountable. "We should be under no illusions," tweeted Túlio Gadêlha, a lawyer and federal deputy for the state of Pernambuco, representing the Democratic Labour Party (PDT) in the national parliament in Brasília. "The Côrte Real/Hacker family have a lot of political power and influence in Pernambuco. It will become clear that Pernambuco is still ruled by oligarchs."

For Marcos García, a reader of the daily newspaper Folha de S.Paulo, the tragedy of Miguel reveals Brazil's latent racism: "If the son of a white employer had died, the domestic worker would already be behind bars and reviled online," he said. "What a brutal country!"

https://www.dw.com/en/racism-in-brazil-the-death-of-a-five-year-old/a-53709342

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #149 on: June 7, 2020, 01:34:33 pm »
Brazil removes online data on pandemic, hiding soaring deaths

Here is a further update from Reuters on Brazil, which has removed from public view months of data on its Covid-19 epidemic.

The health ministry in Brazil - which has the world’s second-largest coronavirus outbreak - removed the data from a website that had documented the epidemic over time and by state and municipality.

The ministry also stopped giving a total count of confirmed cases, which have shot past 672,000, more than anywhere outside the United States, or a total death toll, which passed Italy this week, nearing 36,000 by Saturday.

“The cumulative data ... does not reflect the moment the country is in,” Bolsonaro said on Twitter, citing a note from the ministry. “Other actions are underway to improve the reporting of cases and confirmation of diagnoses.”

Bolsonaro has played down the dangers of the pandemic, replaced medical experts in the health ministry with military officials and argued against state lockdowns to fight the virus, hobbling the country’s public health response. Neither Bolsonaro nor the ministry gave a reason for erasing most of the data on the covid.saude.gov.br website, which had been a key public resource for tracking the pandemic.

One thing Bolsonaro can't do is pretend he knew nothing of the potential dangers with the virus. It may be that it's difficult to protect/isolate the elderly and other groups at risk, things they can't actually organize for whatever reason. I can't say. But unless he at least tried to organize something, I reckon he will have a lot of fingers pointing his way when people try and find someone to blame.

        * * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Online AndyMuller

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #150 on: June 8, 2020, 11:43:09 am »
I'm not entirely in the loop of Brazilian politics but what on earth prompted the public to vote in this absolutely insane piece of shit?

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #151 on: June 8, 2020, 11:43:53 am »
I'm not entirely in the loop of Brazilian politics but what on earth prompted the public to vote in this absolutely insane piece of shit?
the left were on the take

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Car_Wash

Online AndyMuller

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #152 on: June 8, 2020, 11:46:13 am »
the left were on the take

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Car_Wash

Ah I wasn't aware of this, I'll have a read through that now.

Ta mate.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #153 on: June 8, 2020, 11:51:08 am »
Foreign Policy has an excellent overview here: https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/26/its-not-just-the-right-thats-voting-for-bolsonaro-its-everyone-far-right-brazil-corruption-center-left-anger-pt-black-gay-racism-homophobia/

Basically

1) More conservative minded electorate helped by a surge in evangelicalism

2) Economic decline bringing a backlash against affirmative action and welfare programs that largely benefit poorer and black communities

3) Increase in violent crime which Bolsonaro said he'd stamp out. Also memories of past authoritarian governments in Brazil have either been forgotten or not experienced

4) Social media disinformation is rife largely via Whatsapp

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #154 on: June 8, 2020, 11:59:03 am »
Foreign Policy has an excellent overview here: https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/26/its-not-just-the-right-thats-voting-for-bolsonaro-its-everyone-far-right-brazil-corruption-center-left-anger-pt-black-gay-racism-homophobia/

Basically

1) More conservative minded electorate helped by a surge in evangelicalism

2) Economic decline bringing a backlash against affirmative action and welfare programs that largely benefit poorer and black communities

3) Increase in violent crime which Bolsonaro said he'd stamp out. Also memories of past authoritarian governments in Brazil have either been forgotten or not experienced

4) Social media disinformation is rife largely via Whatsapp
re point 3, babuyagu (who from memory lives around rio) said around the time of the World Cup and olympics they kicked out a lot of the criminals who lived in rio favelas so itd look better for tourists, but instead of keeping them there and being somewhat able to manage them (as they for the most part knew where they were and didn’t do much outside their favela or neighbouring ones) they spread out and it massively increased crime in the wealthier suburbs that were largely insulated from that (think he said something about a guy who owned a pizza shop in his suburb getting shot and killed and being robbed of his takings when he closed up shop), but the crime spread further due to that fuckup

And point 2, the World Cup they built massive stadiums (manaus and Brasilia from memory are two) that are way too big for the teams in that city and are multi million dollar white elephants, the one in Brasilia was a bus depot I think at one point

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #155 on: June 8, 2020, 12:06:11 pm »
I remember BabaYagu saying that about crime. The Brasilia stadium is the poster child for why these events aren't an economic panacea. It's as bad, if not worse, than the Olympic legacy in Athens

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #156 on: June 8, 2020, 12:47:20 pm »
World cups and Olympics quite often leave large structures to rot following an event, unless the demand was there to begin with. Places like South Africa and Brazil really suffered.

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #157 on: June 8, 2020, 12:48:46 pm »
World cups and Olympics quite often leave large structures to rot following an event, unless the demand was there to begin with. Places like South Africa and Brazil really suffered.

There's a good chapter on this in Soccernomics.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #158 on: June 9, 2020, 10:08:16 pm »
Brazil removes online data on pandemic, hiding soaring deaths

Here is a further update from Reuters on Brazil, which has removed from public view months of data on its Covid-19 epidemic.

The health ministry in Brazil - which has the world’s second-largest coronavirus outbreak - removed the data from a website that had documented the epidemic over time and by state and municipality.

The ministry also stopped giving a total count of confirmed cases, which have shot past 672,000, more than anywhere outside the United States, or a total death toll, which passed Italy this week, nearing 36,000 by Saturday.

“The cumulative data ... does not reflect the moment the country is in,” Bolsonaro said on Twitter, citing a note from the ministry. “Other actions are underway to improve the reporting of cases and confirmation of diagnoses.”

Bolsonaro has played down the dangers of the pandemic, replaced medical experts in the health ministry with military officials and argued against state lockdowns to fight the virus, hobbling the country’s public health response. Neither Bolsonaro nor the ministry gave a reason for erasing most of the data on the covid.saude.gov.br website, which had been a key public resource for tracking the pandemic.

Coronavirus: Brazil judge orders Bolsonaro to publish full data

Quote
A Brazilian Supreme Court (SC) judge has ordered President Jair Bolsonaro's government to resume publishing full data on Covid-19 amid accusations of censorship.

Brazil's health ministry removed data from its website and stopped releasing cumulative totals for deaths and cases on Saturday, provoking uproar.

The ministry said it would only report cases and deaths in the past 24 hours.

But hours after the SC decision, the ministry restored the data platform.

Mr Bolsonaro said actions were being taken to improve Covid-19 reporting.

But critics accused the far-right president's government of data manipulation, with Brazil's national council of state health secretaries describing the move as "authoritarian, insensitive, inhuman and unethical".

Supreme Court Justice Alexandre de Moraes told the ministry to "fully re-establish" the publication of Covid-19 data in the interests of public health.

Quote
In a statement, Mr Moraes said the health ministry must "fully re-establish the daily divulgation of epidemiological data on the Covid-19 pandemic", including on its website.

The judge made the ruling on Monday night in response to a legal challenge from three political parties.

Mr Moraes has given Mr Bolsonaro's government 48 hours to release the full figures again, O Global newspaper reported.

He said the health emergency in Brazil was so serious, it required all government agencies to "put into effect public health protection".

The judge "highlighted the disastrous consequences for the population if internationally recognised measures are not adopted, such as the collection, analysis, storage and dissemination of relevant epidemiological data".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-52980642

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Brazil - The next country to fall to the right
« Reply #159 on: June 20, 2020, 02:12:27 am »
Good grief

Max Roser@MaxCRoser
Brazil just reported 54,771 cases in a single day. By far the highest case count ever reported in a day. (It's almost exactly twice the number of confirmed cases in the entire EU in the last week [27,573]). Source: http://covid.saude.gov.br

Bear in mind Brazil hasn't had a health minister in more than a month, since Bolsonaro fired his first health minister for disagreeing with him about social distancing and then fired his successor because he wouldn't recommend hydrochloroquine
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 02:15:28 am by rafathegaffa83 »