Author Topic: The referee watch thread.  (Read 30809 times)

Offline Petadroli

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #200 on: February 16, 2017, 03:31:06 pm »
I never understand why we don't employ foreign refs, I mean quite obviously the level of refereeing in this country is getting worse and it doesn't appear that anyone who can do something about it actually wants to.

I do quite like Clattenburg, I guess with refs you only remember the last game and form your opinion that way but I've seen him a fair bit live and he's much better than the majority.

The quality of refereeing wouldn't change if you employed foreign refs in the Premier League. The problem is the Premier League itself with its very vague ruling of many situations. The biggest mistakes of referees in the PL are always the penalty decisions (if it isn't a handball), the tacklings in the field (fair? yellow card? red card?) and the tackling of goalkeepers. You could probably write a 20-page essay why consistent refereeing in the PL is almost impossible. The bullet points are probably:

- There's no consistency when it comes to penalty decisions. Often cited is the so-called "softness" of a penalty (if given). Especially during matches of rivals or two "big teams", penalties are often waved away, because the referee doesn't want to influence the match. Even if it is completely the wrong decision. Yesterday's match between Bayern and Arsenal had one prime example: the penalty Arsenal got would have been waved away most times in the Premier League.

- The very physical nature of the game in the PL is another major factor in refereeing inconsistency. It's very hard for the referees, because in matches with a high tempo, there are more tackles and there are more fouls. Especially in tight, big games the referee is very lenient in handing out cards. Often you even get away with a red card offence in the first few minutes "the ref let that one go". So players go in hard more often than not and to be fair to them there is often no difference between the tackle made one week before and this one and yet they get a card - referees have different views themselves about tackles and I think the one valid criticism is that referees don't have enough meetings to talk about the ruling and handling situations in detail.

- goalkeepers in "their" box: they are quite simply not protected by the referee at all. There are at least two or three situations per game where the goalkeeper gets effectively obstructed to catch a ball by a opposing player jumping or running into him. In every other European League, the goalkeepers are sacred in their little box. Good example a few weeks back: Hull's first goal against us. Would never stand in any other European League because the striker jumps into Mignolet while he catches a ball. The striker doesn't touch the ball at all while jumping and obstructing Mignolet in "his" box. If you go by the rulebook, that is a clear foul.
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Offline RedInside

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #201 on: February 16, 2017, 03:43:00 pm »
Can't blame him, a referee earning player's money, most of the people would

Offline Sheer Magnetism

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #202 on: February 16, 2017, 04:10:31 pm »
Brilliantly, on the comments section for Marina Hyde's article on Clattenburg, someone's posted this excerpt from Jeff Winter's book. I actually laughed out loud:

Talking about his farewell appearance - at Anfield - Winter wrote: "I played a little bit of extra time, waiting until play was at the Kop end, before sounding the final shrill blast . . . the fans behind the goal burst into spontaneous applause. It was longer and louder than normal, even for a big home win. Did they know it was my final visit? Was it applause for me? They are such knowledgeable football people, it would not surprise me."

Offline elsewhere

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #203 on: February 16, 2017, 04:19:35 pm »
do we know how much they will pay him?

Offline MancEunuchian

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #204 on: February 16, 2017, 04:27:56 pm »
Good riddance to the bellend.  A good ref is someone you don't ever notice.  Clattenurg seems to be the type who always wants the spotlight focused on him.

Offline El Denzel Pepito

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #205 on: February 16, 2017, 04:51:34 pm »
Pimped himself out to China earlier this year, he's after the money just as a lot of the players who move there are. "There is no offer but if they made an offer it would be under consideration". Of course you'd *consider* it, it's like me saying "Liverpool haven't made an offer for me but if they did I would consider it", aka 'Hey fellas! If you didn't know by the way - I exist, fancy giving me a lucrative contract offer? Anyone?'. Referees making come-and-get-me pleas, what's happening!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/30/mark-clattenburg-chinese-super-league
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 04:55:43 pm by El Denzel Pepito »

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #206 on: February 16, 2017, 04:56:18 pm »
I suppose the money he will get will be great for his family...

Refs get paid well, but nowhere near the levels of footballers...
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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #207 on: February 16, 2017, 05:35:43 pm »
I suppose the money he will get will be great for his family...

Refs get paid well, but nowhere near the levels of footballers...

Certainly not since the golden age of 1960's Italian football. 
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Offline Ziltoid

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #208 on: February 16, 2017, 06:07:16 pm »
Good riddance to the bellend.  A good ref is someone you don't ever notice.  Clattenurg seems to be the type who always wants the spotlight focused on him.

Can you name any others that float through games without being noticed?

Maybe you noticed him because he was the first ref not to be swayed by you lot and your odious hard shoulder shitting manager
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 06:09:14 pm by Ziltoid »

Offline bird_lfc

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #209 on: February 16, 2017, 06:39:44 pm »
Good riddance to the bellend.  A good ref is someone you don't ever notice.  Clattenurg seems to be the type who always wants the spotlight focused on him.

A 'shit referee' doesn't do the fa cup, champions league and European championship finals all in one year.


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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #210 on: February 16, 2017, 06:44:03 pm »
A 'shit referee' doesn't do the fa cup, champions league and European championship finals all in one year.

Not unless the governing bodies are all corrupt. ;)

Also, were you saying that when Howard Webb was given the Champions League final and the World Cup final in the same year?

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #211 on: February 16, 2017, 07:26:57 pm »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38993655

Clattenburg is off to Saudi Arabia.

Good riddance to the horrible self-obsessed twat. Shittest ref in the league
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Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #212 on: February 16, 2017, 07:30:23 pm »
Good riddance to the horrible self-obsessed twat. Shittest ref in the league

Think he's the best, personally.

Offline pyroparty

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #213 on: February 16, 2017, 07:33:30 pm »
Managed to screw us over a few times this season, hopefully the rest fuck off with the useless c*nt.

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #214 on: February 16, 2017, 07:44:44 pm »
Think he's the best, personally.

He may well be, but, to be fair, that's not saying much.

He fell for Hazard and Costa's simulation every time against us, which ultimately cost us the win.

Offline bird_lfc

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #215 on: February 16, 2017, 07:44:54 pm »
Not unless the governing bodies are all corrupt. ;)

Also, were you saying that when Howard Webb was given the Champions League final and the World Cup final in the same year?

I probably would of, yeah. I'm not one of them bellends that looks to blame the referee at every possible opportunity.

He made come across as a bit of an ass but while he was officiating, again Webb was probably the best referee this country had at that point
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 07:49:11 pm by bird_lfc »

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #216 on: February 16, 2017, 07:46:18 pm »
He may well be, but, to be fair, that's not saying much.

He fell for Hazard and Costa's simulation every time against us, which ultimately cost us the win.

He has some bad games in the Premier League but he was absolutely superb when reffing in Europe. I remember him doing an Atletico-Bayern game last season and he got just about everything spot on.

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #217 on: February 16, 2017, 07:55:36 pm »
I probably of, yeah. I'm not one of them bellends that looks to blame the referee at every possible opportunity.

He made come across as a bit of an ass but while he was officiating, again Webb was probably the best referee this country had at that point

Yes, just like Voronin was our best player at some point. :)

Do you remember what a mess he made of that World Cup final?

He has some bad games in the Premier League but he was absolutely superb when reffing in Europe. I remember him doing an Atletico-Bayern game last season and he got just about everything spot on.

I actually agree with you, he's not a bad ref, the standard of refereeing in the Premier League will be (even) worse without him. But he's far from the best in Europe or the world. I'd go along with what someone said above, if the Premier League wants to be the best league in the world, with the best players in the world, then it should also get the best referees in the world.

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #218 on: February 16, 2017, 08:00:01 pm »
Think he's the best, personally.

Didn't Gerrard think that too?

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #219 on: February 16, 2017, 08:10:36 pm »
Also, I think people should watch La Liga and see how bad the refs are there. They make Lee Mason look like Collina.

I don't think that's true. There are some high-profile mistakes here and there, but by and large I think they do a better job. And the standard is certainly better in Germany. I admittedly don't watch many games from Germany, but I watch the highlights, and it's very rare that you see a goal that shouldn't have stood, or even an obviously wrong offside decision. Cards are also handed out much more consistently, and referees are rarely in the spotlight.

What you do get in Spain and Italy is people talking about it, managers complaining about it, even outright expressing suspicion of conspiracies, covered in the media on a daily basis, sometimes on front pages. Over here, everything is just shrugged off as part of the game. You can see Klopp's frustration with it when he says to journalists things like, and I'm paraphrasing, you're reporters, report what you've seen or you don't need to ask me if it was offside, why make a headline of "Klopp says it was offside" instead of just making a headline of "it was offside". If Real Madrid got a late equaliser against Barca and it should have been disallowed for offside, the Spanish press would be writing about it for a week.

Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #220 on: February 16, 2017, 08:14:10 pm »
I don't think that's true. There are some high-profile mistakes here and there, but by and large I think they do a better job. And the standard is certainly better in Germany. I admittedly don't watch many games from Germany, but I watch the highlights, and it's very rare that you see a goal that shouldn't have stood, or even an obviously wrong offside decision. Cards are also handed out much more consistently, and referees are rarely in the spotlight.

What you do get in Spain and Italy is people talking about it, managers complaining about it, even outright expressing suspicion of conspiracies, covered in the media on a daily basis, sometimes on front pages. Over here, everything is just shrugged off as part of the game. You can see Klopp's frustration with it when he says to journalists things like, and I'm paraphrasing, you're reporters, report what you've seen or you don't need to ask me if it was offside, why make a headline of "Klopp says it was offside" instead of just making a headline of "it was offside". If Real Madrid got a late equaliser against Barca and it should have been disallowed for offside, the Spanish press would be writing about it for a week.

I think the refs are good in Germany, but to be honest I don't think there's a big gap in standard between all the big European Leagues. I think the quality of refs is pretty similar across Europe. I would say that the best in Europe is from Turkey; the guy who sent Nani off against Real Madrid some years ago. He's exceptional when I watch a game he's refereeing.

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #221 on: February 16, 2017, 08:17:53 pm »
because he was the first ref not to be swayed by you lot and your odious hard shoulder shitting manager

Not sure I 100% agree with that...



Taken just before kick off in last years FA cup final. What followed was a rather generous display towards United, stopping a number of Palace counter attacks dead by refusing to play clear advantages.

Offline richiedouglas

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #222 on: February 16, 2017, 08:21:18 pm »
A premier league lino earns about £50-80k pa. I wouldn't be surprised if refs are on £200k.

I very much doubt he's going to Saudi for less than a million. Bet his wife's chuffed.

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #223 on: February 16, 2017, 08:25:25 pm »
I would say that the best in Europe is from Turkey; the guy who sent Nani off against Real Madrid some years ago. He's exceptional when I watch a game he's refereeing.

Yes, totally agree there. I don't think any English ref has the balls to do make such a decision, especially in a high-profile game, mainly for fear of "ruining the spectacle". And then you get perfectly good refs, deciding not to apply perfectly clear rules, that they know perfectly well. And then you get Webb's performance in that World Cup final. And then you get Herrera, Pogba and Rooney staying on the pitch until full time against us a month ago. A good referee applies rules, that's the only job he has.

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #224 on: February 16, 2017, 09:05:22 pm »
Good riddance to the bellend.  A good ref is someone you don't ever notice.  Clattenurg seems to be the type who always wants the spotlight focused on him.

You used to like him



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Offline idontknow

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #225 on: February 17, 2017, 01:26:24 am »
Jesus, if you'd read the slagging Clattenburg got for our last game...now hes Mr Wonderful.
Agreed, I was getting a bit bemused why that dickhead was getting so much love.
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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #226 on: February 17, 2017, 02:03:07 am »
Not sure I 100% agree with that...



Taken just before kick off in last years FA cup final. What followed was a rather generous display towards United, stopping a number of Palace counter attacks dead by refusing to play clear advantages.
Didn't he give us 3 penalties in one game at Old Trafford?
Then in the midddle out pops a smiling glen johnson pulling up his jersey to reveal a t-shirt of suarez with a text saying. "OUR SUAREZ IS A FRIEND TO ALL COLOURS!"

Offline drmick

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #227 on: February 17, 2017, 09:48:11 am »
He will probably earn enough in Saudi Arabia to live off for the rest of his life, so can't blame him.

I am more intrigued to know the story behind Howard Webb's retirement, if there is a story there.

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #228 on: February 17, 2017, 10:15:48 am »
He will probably earn enough in Saudi Arabia to live off for the rest of his life, so can't blame him.

I am more intrigued to know the story behind Howard Webb's retirement, if there is a story there.

Apparently he'll be earning 500k a year.

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #229 on: February 17, 2017, 10:36:30 am »
Brilliantly, on the comments section for Marina Hyde's article on Clattenburg, someone's posted this excerpt from Jeff Winter's book. I actually laughed out loud:

Talking about his farewell appearance - at Anfield - Winter wrote: "I played a little bit of extra time, waiting until play was at the Kop end, before sounding the final shrill blast . . . the fans behind the goal burst into spontaneous applause. It was longer and louder than normal, even for a big home win. Did they know it was my final visit? Was it applause for me? They are such knowledgeable football people, it would not surprise me."
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Offline lessthanmatt

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #230 on: February 17, 2017, 07:10:57 pm »
Didn't he give us 3 penalties in one game at Old Trafford?

It should have been more ;D tho one of the ones given was a contactless dive by Sturridge
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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #231 on: February 19, 2017, 01:16:48 pm »
http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/story/3064075/new-york-citys-david-villa-sees-red-in-first-mls-instance-of-var-support
"David Villa was sent off during New York City FC's 3-1 Desert Diamond Cup loss to Houston Dynamo on Saturday night thanks to the Video Assistant Referee (VAR) system.

The system has been introduced in the MLS preseason as a way to help advise the on-field referee on "game-changing" decisions including goals, penalty shouts, direct red card incidents and mistaken identity.

In Villa's case on Saturday, cameras picked up the striker slapping the face of Houston Dynamo defender A.J. DeLaGarza with his hand during a tussle in the 18-yard box.

Initially Villa was handed a yellow card, but upon further review Villa was shown his marching orders.

MLS commissioner Don Garber has previously said that if the system proves to be a success, it will be implemented during the second half of the 2017 regular season".


Interesting.
An FA that has the balls to try out a system that many have been clamouring for. Truly hope it works and other European FAs take note, though I'm sure the Premier league will probably be the last to adopt it should the inevitable happen.
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Offline MNAA

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #232 on: February 24, 2018, 03:36:10 am »
I am bumping this because I would like to discuss about the premier league referees today. It's a relatively old thread (last posted a year ago) but still relevant to this day

I was impressed by the referee (Daniele Orsato) in the Porto match. He gave you the comfort that you're going to get a fair deal throughout, a feeling that I've rarely had these days during our premier league matches. You significantly worry when you see certain names refereeing our matches

Based on the list of referees listed on premierleague.com, I've bucket in a few groups based on how I rate them. What are your thoughts

Good (we get a fair deal mostly):
Oliver
Marriner

Fair to Good (ok days and bad days)
Atkinson
Pawson

Poor to Fair (mostly horrible, feels like you don't get a fair deal, perhaps incompetent)
Moss
Mason
Taylor
Dean
Friend
Madley
Swarbrick

Undecided
Atwell
East
Probert
Jones

Too New
Scott
Kavanagh
Tierney
Hooper

We hardly get Oliver this season (Home to Chelsea the only time I believe). Referees for our big 6 games so far this season

Arsenal (H)- Atkinson
City (A) - Moss
Utd (H) - Atkinson
Spurs (A) - Marriner
Chelsea (H) - Oliver
Arsenal (A) - Atkinson
City (H) - Marriner
Spurs (A) - Moss
 
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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #233 on: February 26, 2018, 05:05:49 pm »
I'd move East to Fair to Good - I can't recall (although I'm sure I'll be corrected) calling him any rude names on here in the past couple of years.

Agree Oliver tends to get it right.
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Offline John C

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #234 on: February 26, 2018, 09:04:50 pm »
You need to put Anthony Taylor, Martin Atkinson and Lee Mason in a yet to be created 'fucking atrocious' category mate.

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #235 on: February 26, 2018, 09:12:23 pm »
Haha it’s scary looking at that list to realise how many names you cringe when you see are reffing our game.

I’d love to quiz Anthony Taylor about all things Altrincham one day. :D

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Re: The referee watch thread.
« Reply #236 on: April 7, 2018, 07:38:36 pm »
You need to put Anthony Taylor, Martin Atkinson and Lee Mason in a yet to be created 'fucking atrocious' category mate.

Think he deserves a category all to himself after that. I know I'm not being bias either as that was actually not a bad result for us considering, but fuck me that was criminal, Young literally tried a leg breaker in the box yards from the lineman and nothing, how is the refereeing in our country got to such low levels??

Surely there should be a better system for refs to reward and discourage good and bad performances, but as it is they can make game changing decisions, go home and that's that. Infuriating. No coincidence no English refs have been selected for the world cup, not just us that thinks they are way beneath an acceptable level.

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« Reply #237 on: April 22, 2018, 07:54:05 pm »
I thought I was watching an afternoon of carefree football, no pressure or heart attacks, watching Chelsea and Southampton.
Chelsea score, nothing new there then, Southhampton get a corner.  Charlie Austin goes against the keeper  and the Chelsea keeper juggles it and pulls  the ball from inside the goal. It is over the line though. "Goal", I thought. "No" says Martin Atkinson, the game flows on. No blood pressure problems so far.
BT then highlight that it was the merest contact by Austin, game goes on. End of game, analysis begins, and so does my blood pressure.
Graham Poll "explains" Southampton's goal couldn't stand because : "when the goalie goes up you cannot make contact with him". Stevie Gerrard among the others said that's what happens and this was not the proper application of the rule. "Its the law", said Poll.
Why get angry, you ask, well down the years, even yesterday  Liverpool goalies were routinely made contact with!
The one that brings to mind, was against West Ham under Rodgers. Mignolet is fouled by Andy Carroll but Anthony Taylor overruled the linesman and signalled a goal. Poll, himself has let a few go like that.
The law itself, if I am correct and you can agree or disagree:
"A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hands".
Check the incident out yourself, where does the goal have control of the ball?
Any thoughts or comments?

Online sminp

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Re: Lies, damned lies, and The pundit referee
« Reply #238 on: April 22, 2018, 08:04:57 pm »
I saw the game, Poll was talking bollocks and the goal should have stood. It’s not really a surprise that a ref doesn’t know the rules of the game though is it?
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Offline God's Left Peg

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Re: Lies, damned lies, and The pundit referee
« Reply #239 on: April 22, 2018, 08:14:39 pm »
Poll is a conceited prick. I read his autobiography once (don't know why); for such a dull individual, he don't half love himself.
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