Author Topic: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One  (Read 91735 times)

Online TepidT2O

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #400 on: November 6, 2011, 11:38:27 am »
Totally off topic, but one only has to look at the colleseum in Rome to see that there are only so many ways to build a stadium to manage large crowds of people moving.
Entrance and exit layouts etc are pretty much unchanged in 2000 years
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Offline Easy

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #401 on: November 6, 2011, 02:12:17 pm »
I love this thread. From Liverpool to Rome in 2000 years and still the stadia conundrum rumbles on....

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #402 on: January 18, 2012, 02:04:08 am »
Cross section of the AFL plans


im no good with things like that but perhaps 1 of the experts can tell us if they are good or bad?

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #403 on: January 18, 2012, 02:04:58 am »
optium viewing circle with them plans aswell

Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #404 on: January 18, 2012, 12:22:15 pm »
Cross section of the AFL plans


im no good with things like that but perhaps 1 of the experts can tell us if they are good or bad?

The pitch is a bit small...

The main issues I had with these was that the breaks in seating (for boxes etc) are not necessarily so big. The effect is to push the lower tiers lower and the upper tiers higher. This means the view in the lower is not as good and given that there is a maximum angle of rake, the view from the upper is less good too. No doubt the minimum 'C'-value (quality of view) is 90 which is acceptable.

The roof restricts the view of the rest of the spectators in the ground. This is often ignored, but it's important to the atmosphere to see what everyone else is up to. It will also give a slight letter-box view of the pitch. Even though you'd only miss very high (foot)balls, it's disconcerting not to see everything. On the plus side side, fewer seats get wet.

The outside bent diamond on the viewing diagram is the absolute max recommended. To be clear, the optimum is the inner dashed circle. The club always had a big problem with the overall dimensions because of the cost of the roof to cover it all. Under regulations you can't have a seat that doesn't have a roof (I know, some still get wet anyway).

The major problem with the design was always the hospitality provision. On other drawings I've seen it's pretty poor even for the ordinary punter.

Overall and like all modern stadia it's very laid back. The low angles are needed to get the views with the maximum angle and the boxes make both the lower and upper tiers worse as a consequence. That's why it's just a bit bloody dull. No Zazz.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 12:34:45 pm by Peter McGurk »

Online richmiller1

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #405 on: January 18, 2012, 06:58:58 pm »
The pitch is a bit small...

The main issues I had with these was that the breaks in seating (for boxes etc) are not necessarily so big. The effect is to push the lower tiers lower and the upper tiers higher. This means the view in the lower is not as good and given that there is a maximum angle of rake, the view from the upper is less good too. No doubt the minimum 'C'-value (quality of view) is 90 which is acceptable.

The roof restricts the view of the rest of the spectators in the ground. This is often ignored, but it's important to the atmosphere to see what everyone else is up to. It will also give a slight letter-box view of the pitch. Even though you'd only miss very high (foot)balls, it's disconcerting not to see everything. On the plus side side, fewer seats get wet.

The outside bent diamond on the viewing diagram is the absolute max recommended. To be clear, the optimum is the inner dashed circle. The club always had a big problem with the overall dimensions because of the cost of the roof to cover it all. Under regulations you can't have a seat that doesn't have a roof (I know, some still get wet anyway).

The major problem with the design was always the hospitality provision. On other drawings I've seen it's pretty poor even for the ordinary punter.

Overall and like all modern stadia it's very laid back. The low angles are needed to get the views with the maximum angle and the boxes make both the lower and upper tiers worse as a consequence. That's why it's just a bit bloody dull. No Zazz.

That is quite an interesting read.

What sort of degree of tweaking do you think would be possible within the existing planning consent? Assuming the roof and external appearance are pretty much untouchable do you think the shortfalls in hospitality facillities you've noticed could be rectified and a bit more character added to the interior?

On the subject of the roof, I just don't think there is a solution here that doesn't involve a compromise. A similar dilema would face any potential redevelopment of Anfield. A tight roof comes with some advantages, as you note on the previous page the distance of the fans from the roofline has a big impact on atmosphere. The alternative to a steeply raking roof is presumably the Wembly/ Emirates high flat-ish roof line. In that instance the compromise moves from one of views being slightly restricted to one of a stadium feeling disconcertingly open and short on atmosphere.

Even staying put and doing nought we still have a whole raft of seats where views of the pitch are obstructed......let alone views of the rest of the stands.

Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #406 on: January 18, 2012, 07:52:39 pm »
That is quite an interesting read.

What sort of degree of tweaking do you think would be possible within the existing planning consent? Assuming the roof and external appearance are pretty much untouchable do you think the shortfalls in hospitality facillities you've noticed could be rectified and a bit more character added to the interior?

On the subject of the roof, I just don't think there is a solution here that doesn't involve a compromise. A similar dilema would face any potential redevelopment of Anfield. A tight roof comes with some advantages, as you note on the previous page the distance of the fans from the roofline has a big impact on atmosphere. The alternative to a steeply raking roof is presumably the Wembly/ Emirates high flat-ish roof line. In that instance the compromise moves from one of views being slightly restricted to one of a stadium feeling disconcertingly open and short on atmosphere.

Even staying put and doing nought we still have a whole raft of seats where views of the pitch are obstructed......let alone views of the rest of the stands.

A bit hard to summarise but you can tweak as long as it doesn’t make matters worse. The list is endless... well it isn’t but you have to look at every section of the consent and make sure nothing is made any worse or, if you do, do something that makes it better again!

Fix hospitality? yep but maybe the club have lowered their sights on that. Internal profile? not much. The rules is the rules - see Emirates.

The best roof I’ve seen is the open Millenium Stadium roof. No nonsense. Flat. Heavy (keeps noise in). Everyone can see everyone but I guess relatively expensive. We need a stadium that ‘glowers’ - bears down on the opposition.

No, staying put doesn’t mean keeping the dead seats - particularly the Annie Road lower. The upper would be rebuilt further back.


Offline iwasthere

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #407 on: January 18, 2012, 11:29:15 pm »

The best roof I’ve seen is the open Millenium Stadium roof. No nonsense. Flat. Heavy (keeps noise in). Everyone can see everyone but I guess relatively expensive. We need a stadium that ‘glowers’ - bears down on the opposition.


That stadium was quite cheap by comparison, about £125 million or thereabouts although I wonder if it benefit from a lower cost in steel back then perhaps, I don't know.
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Offline Peter McGurk

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #408 on: May 3, 2012, 12:09:37 pm »
There you go Alan lad. Fill yer boots...

"We have written off a huge amount on the stadium project. A big chunk of that £50m loss relates to the HKS project - which is now defunct..."


Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2012/05/03/ian-ayre-liverpool-fc-accounts-show-that-lfc-is-now-on-a-firmer-footing-100252-30892350/#ixzz1tnu2YslS

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #409 on: May 3, 2012, 12:25:09 pm »
There you go Alan lad. Fill yer boots...

"We have written off a huge amount on the stadium project. A big chunk of that £50m loss relates to the HKS project - which is now defunct..."


Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2012/05/03/ian-ayre-liverpool-fc-accounts-show-that-lfc-is-now-on-a-firmer-footing-100252-30892350/#ixzz1tnu2YslS

Great news on the HKS front. Sounds like any new stadium would be a version of the AFL design.
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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #410 on: May 3, 2012, 10:02:52 pm »
Great news on the HKS front. Sounds like any new stadium would be a version of the AFL design.

Parry Bowl if Bascombe is to be believed.

.

Offline mark82

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #411 on: May 3, 2012, 10:31:44 pm »
Parry Bowl if Bascombe is to be believed.

.


Prefer this one but if you click the link for 1st generation Anfield it says 'in progress'

http://aflarch.demonweb.co.uk/projects.php?action=showProject&catID=43&projectID=227

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #412 on: May 3, 2012, 10:42:34 pm »
Prefer this one but if you click the link for 1st generation Anfield it says 'in progress'

http://aflarch.demonweb.co.uk/projects.php?action=showProject&catID=43&projectID=227

That was the competition scheme. Never went to planning.
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Offline Zlen

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #413 on: May 3, 2012, 10:48:33 pm »
A question for you who know better.
Should we go down the new stadium route and use the Parry bowl plans, could they be altered at this point, redesigned a bit somehow or would that be a problem, a waste of time and money?

That stadium is awfully generic and tasteless, at least an attempt at breathing some style and substance in it should be made if possible.

Offline mark82

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #414 on: May 4, 2012, 12:00:06 am »
The worry for me is that we will have a stadium a good few years older than the emirates completed about 12 years after it.

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #415 on: May 4, 2012, 04:06:59 pm »
Rafa Benitez. The man who made us dream again.

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #416 on: May 4, 2012, 04:10:49 pm »
Intresting to here Chelsea plan on having a 15,000 single tier stand in there proposed new ground and 4 separate stands.
The Liverpool way!!!

Offline The Lord Admiral

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #417 on: May 4, 2012, 04:26:00 pm »
Intresting to here Chelsea plan on having a 15,000 single tier stand in there proposed new ground and 4 separate stands.

Made me livid. Cheeky bastards.

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Re: Why The Hicks Bowl Must Never Be Built Part One
« Reply #418 on: May 4, 2012, 10:51:23 pm »
Made me livid. Cheeky bastards.

Cant blame them for being ambitious, even if it is risky and doesnt make 100% sense financially.  Some people are just too conservative.