Topic: New Annie road, small to medium expansion plans shelved.

[Ratboy3G]

Fucking Brexit.

.......to give it its proper title

[lfcwembley]

A backstop is exactly what’s required for safer standing.

[CentenaryBoy]

The best option, depending on how close the current steps are to safe standing regs (I'm sure Peter said in the past they meet them, but I could be wrong) would be to keep what's currently there, convert it to safe standing when allowed, then see if we can expand the corners and back some more to maybe try to add another 3-4k on.

I think everyone's kidding themselves over safe standing. Liverpool will be the last club on earth to introduce it, and almost certainly not even then. As long as a single member of any of the Hillsborough families says they're opposed to the reintroduction of standing, the club simply won't do it. They'd never go against their wishes.

[CraigDS]

I think everyone's kidding themselves over safe standing. Liverpool will be the last club on earth to introduce it, and almost certainly not even then. As long as a single member of any of the Hillsborough families says they're opposed to the reintroduction of standing, the club simply won't do it. They'd never go against their wishes.

I don’t think we’ll be the first but I do think if it becomes legal then their will be that much Fab pressure that the conversations will have to happen and I think that could lead to it happening within Anfield.

[Son of Spion]

I don't choose to live or work near a football ground, but plenty of others do. For some, being up-close to Anfield is a dream. For others, their businesses would probably not exist anymore unless they were so close to the ground that brings so much footfall and money their way.

With that in mind, I'm sorry, but residents claiming they are feeling ''hemmed in'' by expansion of Anfield is laughable. This is 2019, and there has never been as much space around Anfield Stadium as there is now. The area all around is positively airy compared to what it used to be.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/they-havent-fixed-what-broken-16913865

[GoldenGloves25]

I don't choose to live or work near a football ground, but plenty of others do. For some, being up-close to Anfield is a dream. For others, their businesses would probably not exist anymore unless they were so close to the ground that brings so much footfall and money their way.

With that in mind, I'm sorry, but residents claiming they are feeling ''hemmed in'' by expansion of Anfield is laughable. This is 2019, and there has never been as much space around Anfield Stadium as there is now. The area all around is positively airy compared to what it used to be.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/they-havent-fixed-what-broken-16913865

Its a bizarre statement. You would of thought having another 6000 people as footfall close to your business on a match day would be a good thing.

[poopscoop]

Not really as she states, she lives on Skerries. Matchday for us is turn up have a few beers, watch the game, maybe have another couple and then leave. For ressies it consums the day - or if event based 2 days. I want expansion but her concern is justified.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

To be fair I live close enough to old Trafford where the traffic has a big impact on me if I want to go anywhere by car, either do it 2 hours before, 2 hours after or during the game

Train bit is a good idea but needs a good park and ride so those of us who public transport isn’t an option can use it and park further away from the ground

[Ghost Town]

Not really as she states, she lives on Skerries. Matchday for us is turn up have a few beers, watch the game, maybe have another couple and then leave. For ressies it consums the day - or if event based 2 days. I want expansion but her concern is justified.

Yes the concerns are more than justified. You need to live awhile in the near siege conditions that regular major public events place upon locals to really understand it.

Thing is I can't see what the answer is. The club can only do so much. They can't stop people from going any which where, and even if they did, even if residential streets were made no-go areas and people were funneled along set routes, that would still add to the abnormal conditions that people have to live in.

[Son of Spion]

I just wanted to clarify that in my last post I wasn't dismissing the concerns of local residents. I just found the idea that residents feel ''hemmed in'' by the expansion of Anfield a bit weird, considering there has never been more room around the ground as there is today.

[CraigDS]

I just wanted to clarify that in my last post I wasn't dismissing the concerns of local residents. I just found the idea that residents feel ''hemmed in'' by the expansion of Anfield a bit weird, considering there has never been more room around the ground as there is today.

And a huge amount of housing around there now is not the small terraced roads of years ago. The whole area in general has never been so open.

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

Not really as she states, she lives on Skerries. Matchday for us is turn up have a few beers, watch the game, maybe have another couple and then leave. For ressies it consums the day - or if event based 2 days. I want expansion but her concern is justified.

Ive got mates and relatives who live around the ground and when the concerts were on they had to divert traffic which was a pain in the arse coming and going. People may as well not bother visiting on matchdays as ye cant get a space whether you have a permit or not. Even residents struggle for parking if theyve been at work and come home when somethings going on

[Macred]

Ive got mates and relatives who live around the ground and when the concerts were on they had to divert traffic which was a pain in the arse coming and going. People may as well not bother visiting on matchdays as ye cant get a space whether you have a permit or not. Even residents struggle for parking if theyve been at work and come home when somethings going on

Why would they struggle if you need a parking permit and they have a parking permit? The only people allowed to park in those areas are those with permits which I presume are limited to residents only.

It must be a real hardship having to drive 5 minutes around a diversion or  temporary 1 way system to get to where you need to be.

[Welshred]

Because some people dont give a shit about the fine and park there anyway.

[CraigDS]

Because some people dont give a shit about the fine and park there anyway.

Yup. Bring back the old days of using chairs and ladders to block your space!

[stewy17]

Why would they struggle if you need a parking permit and they have a parking permit? The only people allowed to park in those areas are those with permits which I presume are limited to residents only.

It must be a real hardship having to drive 5 minutes around a diversion or  temporary 1 way system to get to where you need to be.

What a twat of a post that is.

As much as we all want a bigger ground, we all know how difficult it is to travel to the ground and get around the area when there is a game on. We can't just ignore residents concerns or problems.

6k more seats will make this even more difficult, the solution is better transport infrastructure. The solution is not making ordinary working people's lives more difficult to appease a small amount of people who want to watch a game of footy every two weeks and then fuck off when they're done.

You obviously have absolutely no idea whatsoever what it is like to live and have to deal with having the club on your doorstep. Which probably means you should keep your uninformed nonsense opinions to yourself, regardless of how much you mistakenly believe people want to hear them.

[Ghost Town]

Why would they struggle if you need a parking permit and they have a parking permit? The only people allowed to park in those areas are those with permits which I presume are limited to residents only.

It must be a real hardship having to drive 5 minutes around a diversion or  temporary 1 way system to get to where you need to be.

It's not just parking spaces, which is bad enough. It's heavy traffic and fumes, diversions, cones and closures, police vans and vehicles and other paraphernalia, huge volumes of people, noise, lights, foul language, groups of people hanging around, blokes coming to piss in your front garden or doorstep, fights, arguments, huge amounts of mess etc etc .

I think when residents talk about feeling hemmed in they're not really talking about the physical structure of the ground but everything described above which is kind of like a fluid, human 'extension' of the ground, which besieges their neighbourhood every time there's a match or event on.

As a one off you can put up with it; as a regular thing it can get wearying and psychologically damaging. I'm not sure what the answer is.

[CraigDS]

I imagine most, if not all, residents moved in after the stadium was there.

Now I agree the traffic issue 100% needs looking at and sorting both currently and and for future expansions, as do things like pissing in gardens, but things like volume of people, noise, etc. were there decades upon decades ago. The house prices (both purchase and rental figures) represent the fact they are in vicinity of the stadium, and I imagine most moved around there in the knowledge that there are games played regularly during the season which attract many tens of thousands of people.

[Ghost Town]

I imagine most, if not all, residents moved in after the stadium was there.

Doesn't make them immune, though, does it? Nor does it mean they must be happy about it increasing.

Now I agree the traffic issue 100% needs looking at and sorting both currently and and for future expansions, as do things like pissing in gardens, but things like volume of people, noise, etc. were there decades upon decades ago. The house prices (both purchase and rental figures) represent the fact they are in vicinity of the stadium, and I imagine most moved around there in the knowledge that there are games played regularly during the season which attract many tens of thousands of people.

Again, knowing about it beforehand it doesn't mean you're going to be happy about it or happy to see it increased. But yes, there is a balance that needs to be struck. The club also has a right to be there and the nature of what the club does means that most of the attendant effects will occur, and to a degree local residents need to accept that, just as those near airports or loud factories or in flooding areas have to accept the consequences of living there. But that doesn't mean their concerns can be dismissed or that efforts shouldn't be made to alleviate them.

Infrastructure improvements are the best bet. But beyond that it will have to be about coming to some kind of understanding; the club investing in some local improvements etc because otherwise there's not much the club can do to reduce the attendant effects of staging matches/events for 60,000+ people at a time.

[CraigDS]

Doesn't make them immune, though, does it? Nor does it mean they must be happy about it increasing.

Again, knowing about it beforehand it doesn't mean you're going to be happy about it or happy to see it increased. But yes, there is a balance that needs to be struck. The club also has a right to be there and the nature of what the club does means that most of the attendant effects will occur, and to a degree local residents need to accept that, just as those near airports or loud factories or in flooding areas have to accept the consequences of living there. But that doesn't mean their concerns can be dismissed or that efforts shouldn't be made to alleviate them.

Infrastructure improvements are the best bet. But beyond that it will have to be about coming to some kind of understanding; the club investing in some local improvements etc because otherwise there's not much the club can do to reduce the attendant effects of staging matches/events for 60,000+ people at a time.

It doesn’t make them immune no, but it’s worth remembering that for the most part they did make the choice to live around a football stadium.

As said, there are certainly certain aspects which should be looked at regardless of expansion (let’s not forget the stadium used to hold more than now), and hopefully that is ongoing for the rest of the club’s future - I just feel there are some aspects which I’m not sure they can necessarily complain about.

It’s also worth noting that the council are also on the hook for infrastructure improvements - something they have neglected for quite a long while now.

[rob1966]

It doesn’t make them immune no, but it’s worth remembering that for the most part they did make the choice to live around a football stadium.

As said, there are certainly certain aspects which should be looked at regardless of expansion (let’s not forget the stadium used to hold more than now), and hopefully that is ongoing for the rest of the club’s future - I just feel there are some aspects which I’m not sure they can necessarily complain about.

It’s also worth noting that the council are also on the hook for infrastructure improvements - something they have neglected for quite a long while now.

Got to agree with you, even going back to the early 60's we were getting crowds of 45,000 and above and as SoS says, it was a lot tighter packed back then. Things are a lot better around the ground than they were back then, when I started going in the 70's, or when my Dad lived in Varthen Street over the road in the 80's. A lot of my family live near Goodison, so they've had to deal with match days for decades and they just get on with it. If you move near a ground, you know what you are getting.

 

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Because some people dont give a shit about the fine and park there anyway.

Then start towing the bastards.

[CraigDS]

Got to agree with you, even going back to the early 60's we were getting crowds of 45,000 and above and as SoS says, it was a lot tighter packed back then. Things are a lot better around the ground than they were back then, when I started going in the 70's, or when my Dad lived in Varthen Street over the road in the 80's. A lot of my family live near Goodison, so they've had to deal with match days for decades and they just get on with it. If you move near a ground, you know what you are getting.

Yup, both sets of my grandparents lived in the (now demolished) streets behind the Kop for decades - Venice St (next to Varthen) and Venmore. That’s how my parents met and then they got their own house down Venice which I lived in after I was born. They bought well in the knowledge that it was right by the stadium and it being exceptionally busy & noisey quite a few times a year was going to happen.

As said I’m not saying some of the current resisdent’s complaints are 100% valid, they totally are, but a lot of the conditions will definitely predate (most of) them moving there.

[God's Left Peg]

Got to agree with you, even going back to the early 60's we were getting crowds of 45,000 and above and as SoS says, it was a lot tighter packed back then. Things are a lot better around the ground than they were back then, when I started going in the 70's, or when my Dad lived in Varthen Street over the road in the 80's. A lot of my family live near Goodison, so they've had to deal with match days for decades and they just get on with it. If you move near a ground, you know what you are getting.

 

Weren't most people going on foot or public transport though? With fewer cars on the road in general?

[CraigDS]

Weren't most people going on foot or public transport though? With fewer cars on the road in general?

Yeah, definitely, but we’re more on about any complaints about noise / lots of fans / mess / etc. all of which are probably very similar today as they would be 30 years ago.

Traffic is def a major major issue though.

[God's Left Peg]

Fair enough. I couldn't put up with it.

[Son of Spion]

I imagine most, if not all, residents moved in after the stadium was there.

Now I agree the traffic issue 100% needs looking at and sorting both currently and and for future expansions, as do things like pissing in gardens, but things like volume of people, noise, etc. were there decades upon decades ago. The house prices (both purchase and rental figures) represent the fact they are in vicinity of the stadium, and I imagine most moved around there in the knowledge that there are games played regularly during the season which attract many tens of thousands of people.

I couldn't argue against you there. We had 61,905 people in for a game in 1952. I appreciate times were different and much of the attendance was on a walk-up basis, but still. Back then and for decades afterwards, the ground was tightly hemmed in. If a resident fell out of bed they were virtually in the ground. These days there is acres of space around the ground in comparison. The landscaping around the Main Stand also helps serve as a buffer between homes and the ground now.

Noise- wise, you know the score if you choose, and choose definitely is the word here, to live to a major football ground. Don't get me wrong, I still sympathise, but no way in the world would I choose to live near a football ground even if it is the club I love.

Issues around the ground such as disorder must be much lower now than ever. Policing is better, stewarding is better and the levels of large scale disorder that happened in the 70s and 80s are now long gone.

Of course, I'd not put up with what the residents put up with, and with that in mind, I'd never move next to a football stadium, or any stadium for that matter. The ground has been there far longer than anyone who lives near it. Everything within the power of the club and the city council should be done to help both the residents and the club itself though.

My phone battery is about to die so my haste might mean I don't word this as sympathetically as I'd like, and I definitely do sympathise, but I'm also well aware of how long the ground has been there and that people usually make choices about where they live after weighing up the pros and cons beforehand.

I really don't know the answers to the current concerns residents have, but I hope a decent middle ground can be found. It's never going to a tranquil oasis though.

[Red Beret]

Sooner Everton move the better.  We can buy Goodison, knock it down, and built a car park and a rail link for Anfield.

[Brain Potter]

Yup. Bring back the old days of using chairs and ladders to block your space!

About 20 years ago before residents parking I parked up in one of the streets around the ground. When I got back to my car after the match the bloke who’s house I’d parked outside was waiting for me with a baseball bat. Told me if I parked there again he’d smash me and my car up. It worked.

[Kop Kenny]

I'd have come back later and torched the fucker's house if that was me! 
Why is it that people always think they own the road outside their house, did they find the receipt when when they bought the house? No? Yup thought so....

[andy07]

I'd have come back later and torched the fucker's house if that was me! 
Why is it that people always think they own the road outside their house, did they find the receipt when when they bought the house? No? Yup thought so....

People park outside my house everyday.  Sadly hotheads like this get fat too passionate about tarmac.  Suspect I would have rammed the baseball bat up his arse if it had been me.

[Son of Spion]

People park outside my house everyday.  Sadly hotheads like this get fat too passionate about tarmac.  Suspect I would have rammed the baseball bat up his arse if it had been me.

Mr Baseball Bat is taking a risk there. He knows nothing about the people he's threatening, but they know exactly where he lives. I understand his frustration, of course, especially if he can't park his own car near his place, but still. It's best to be a bit more diplomatic in such situations if possible.

[devlin_adl]

From Pearce on the Athletic:

"However, with a number of potential designs still under consideration, The Athletic understands that it will be 2020 before a fresh planning application is submitted to Liverpool City Council.

That would coincide with an extensive public consultation process. There are bound to be concerns raised about traffic and public transport pressures on match days and Liverpool are fully committed to working closely with local residents and planning officials to plot a way forward.

Liverpool City Region Mayor Steve Rotheram recently said he was “optimistic” that a new train station serving Anfield could be delivered and that would certainly help matters.

It promises to be a laborious process. Anfield officials won’t commit to timescales, but having it completed for the 2022-23 season is understood to be the best case scenario."

[classycarra]

Thought people were getting a bit carried away suggesting it could be decided and then finsihed by end of summer 2020. I'm happy to see the consultation is going to be thorough, and well considered. Better to walk before running. Also by then hopefully industry won't be as affected by uncertainty around brexit.

Want it to be a great stand, and really add to the ground in an interesting was like the main stand expansion (while looking like it belongs with the style). Don't just want a few thousand extra seats thrown at it with no consideration. Also good that it gives time for transport options to move forward, and for local consultation.

[CraigDS]

Who thought it would be done by summer 2020?

Every bit of reliable info from the club suggested it wouldn’t even start until summer 2020 at the earliest as would be done after the new training ground was completed - which is next summer.

[classycarra]

Who thought it would be done by summer 2020?

Every bit of reliable info from the club suggested it wouldn’t even start until summer 2020 at the earliest as would be done after the new training ground was completed - which is next summer.

Well exactly. The reliable info is what I'm talking about, not the clamour to just do something big ASAP which isn't the club's MO these days

[Red Beret]

I don't think anybody is clamouring as such; we're just eager to see the next phase take physical shape.  Unlike the Bitters we know when we see some designs they will eventually become real.

Transport infrastructure is the big thing that will need to be looked at.  They may be looking to remodel and reroute some roads if they can?

[CraigDS]

Transport infrastructure is the big thing that will need to be looked at.  They may be looking to remodel and reroute some roads if they can?

The time to do that was a year or two ago though, when the area was all being done and the land behind the Kop (other side of the road) was all derelict.

[lfc79]

Re transport infrastructure what needs to be looked at is restricting traffic for non residents around the ground, traffic management on Everton valley and walton road to produce bus lanes into the city center for 45mins after the match with the bus services being ticket / contact less only.

[Scouser-Tommy]

From a selfish point of view, I really hope a train station gets sorted as part of the plans because the traffic before and after games is getting worse each season, especially for mid-week games.