Topic: Our performances

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Might be worth remembering in the next couple of days,while everyone is throwing their scheduled fits that we are about to enter our 3rd international break, and it's only November. In between the 3 international breaks we've played the following sides:

-Chelsea,[x2],PSG,Spurs,City,Napoli,Arsenal two months of football, our biggest ''rest'' being the 7 days we had between Cardiff and Arsenal.


In a world cup year.


So while I'm livid about the results and performances in certain games, notably the horror show from tonight, its' hardly a surprise when you take all of that into consideration.

Food for thought.

[jillcwhomever]

Yes, I would agree but I also think another reason has to be considered. This season its a jump up in quality in our CL group. That coupled with some tough Premier League matches too, there was bound to be some setbacks along the way. A team never stops learning from one season to the next, this year theres more expectation on us. Sometimes that takes a while for the players to adjust too. The important thing is its not over for us. Learn from the mistakes and lets move on to the next game.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Yes, I would agree but I also think another reason has to be considered. This season its a jump up in quality in our CL group. That coupled with some tough Premier League matches too, there was bound to be some setbacks along the way. A team never stops learning from one season to the next, this year theres more expectation on us. Sometimes that takes a while for the players to adjust too. The important thing is its not over for us. Learn from the mistakes and lets move on to the next game.

I agree, we need to continue to find ways to win and improve in the same time.

[rushyman]

Can stick these Internationsl breaks so far up their arses it comes out of gobs

Next one is a glorified testimonial for the Fat granny shagger

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Can stick these Internationsl breaks so far up their arses it comes out of gobs

Next one is a glorified testimonial for the Fat granny shagger

And our matches immediately following it are Watford [A], with PSG[A] in midweek, then Everton at the weekend at Anfield

[latortuga]

Might be worth remembering in the next couple of days,while everyone is throwing their scheduled fits that we are about to enter our 3rd international break, and it's only November. In between the 3 international breaks we've played the following sides:

-Chelsea,[x2],PSG,Spurs,City,Napoli,Arsenal two months of football, our biggest ''rest'' being the 7 days we had between Cardiff and Arsenal.


In a world cup year.


So while I'm livid about the results and performances in certain games, notably the horror show from tonight, its' hardly a surprise when you take all of that into consideration.

Food for thought.

Why do people continue to blame the World Cup?  This is one of those false statements that gets repeated in the media until people actually start believing it.  No evidence that it has any statistically significant impact.  In fact BPL teams with the most players at the WC have collected more points in this post WC season than any other.  So a positive, not a negative.

The more obvious trend should be considered is Klopp's teams 1st half of season performances vs. 2nd half.

[didi shamone]

Are we creating way less chances or is the finishing much worse? It seems more the former than the latter to me but I'd love to see the stats.
Performance wise we haven't been great on the eye but I'd argue we deserve every point in the league. Its not like we've fluked results. The world cup was an issue for every top side but it seems we have a more significant hangover than most. Seems we're going back to the old Liverpool way of making it difficult for ourselves in the CL. At least we get value for money.

[latortuga]

Are we creating way less chances or is the finishing much worse? It seems more the former than the latter to me but I'd love to see the stats.
Performance wise we haven't been great on the eye but I'd argue we deserve every point in the league. Its not like we've fluked results. The world cup was an issue for every top side but it seems we have a more significant hangover than most. Seems we're going back to the old Liverpool way of making it difficult for ourselves in the CL. At least we get value for money.

No real change in overall figures in chance creation and goals scored compared to this time last season.

2017/18 - xG = 22.97 vs Actual = 21

2018/19 - xG = 21.28 vs Actual = 21

A slight drop but nothing that significant over 11 games played.

The big change is in chances conceded which we've obviously seen a dramatic improvement in both xAG and actual.

[didi shamone]

No real change in overall figures in chance creation and goals scored compared to this time last season.

2017/18 - xG = 22.97 vs Actual = 21

2018/19 - xG = 21.28 vs Actual = 21

A slight drop but nothing that significant over 11 games played.

The big change is in chances conceded which we've obviously seen a dramatic improvement in both xAG and actual.

Cheers for that. Expectation levels have gone through the roof. No need for graphs.

[latortuga]

Let's also remember that in our much easier group last year our away results were hardly sparkling.

vs Spartak Moskow 1-1
vs Maribor 0-7
vs Sevilla 3v3

We also lost in Rome and probably should have been down 2-0 at HT against Man City.

[latortuga]

Cheers for that. Expectation levels have gone through the roof. No need for graphs.

No worries dude.  I'd also add there's a strong element of recency bias at work here, with most fans looking at just the end of last season and extracting expectations of certain success.  I think we'll see better performances in the new year if past trends are to continue.  Unfortunately the Champions League group stage will be over.

[woof]

No real change in overall figures in chance creation and goals scored compared to this time last season.

2017/18 - xG = 22.97 vs Actual = 21

2018/19 - xG = 21.28 vs Actual = 21

A slight drop but nothing that significant over 11 games played.

The big change is in chances conceded which we've obviously seen a dramatic improvement in both xAG and actual.

Glad we have stats to back up. It's easy to compare the best of last season vs what we're currently going through. People forget that. It's good to get a wake-up call now. We're almost a third into the PL season and we're still within pace of the contenders so that's always good. Yes, we haven't been pleasing on the eyes. I'm hoping this Red Star loss will serve as a big wake-up call to some players.

[rocco]

Klopp has said he has changed our style of play due to sides just  passing our press , has there been to much of a change introduced
Feels like our pressing our best asset has faded away .

[jillcwhomever]

Why do people continue to blame the World Cup?  This is one of those false statements that gets repeated in the media until people actually start believing it.  No evidence that it has any statistically significant impact.  In fact BPL teams with the most players at the WC have collected more points in this post WC season than any other.  So a positive, not a negative.

The more obvious trend should be considered is Klopp's teams 1st half of season performances vs. 2nd half.

It is a contributary factor, not the full reason but it doesn't help. It also means some players having little pre-season and therefore they struggle to find their form quickly overall, I would say that's certainly the case for Bobby, who hasn't looked right so far. We know how important he is to the team, we play well when he is playing well. As for your reason our results this season have been better than the results last season, so it has little to do with Klopp's first half verses second half. Take a look at last season's statistics we weren't joint second back then. 

[Nick110581]

Other top sides seem to be coping ok.

We aren’t doing the basics and the lack of urgency last night was a concern.

[killer-heels]

It is a contributary factor, not the full reason but it doesn't help. It also means some players having little pre-season and therefore they struggle to find their form quickly overall, I would say that's certainly the case for Bobby, who hasn't looked right so far. We know how important he is to the team, we play well when he is playing well. As for your reason our results this season have been better than the results last season, so it has little to do with Klopp's first half verses second half. Take a look at last season's statistics we weren't joint second back then. 

To be fair, City have had more players at the world cup and for longer, as did Chelsea.

[Felch Aid]

Klopp has said he has changed our style of play due to sides just  passing our press , has there been to much of a change introduced
Feels like our pressing our best asset has faded away .

This.

Not much press at all and I feel he's playing a percentage game at the moment so that we finish stronger. The last two seasons we've run out of steam but I wouldn't say that's down to just pressing and urgency but also injuries.

There's a feeling we are playing within ourselves and Klopp will not let them loose for some reason.

[killer-heels]

This.

Not much press at all and I feel he's playing a percentage game at the moment so that we finish stronger. The last two seasons we've run out of steam but I wouldn't say that's down to just pressing and urgency but also injuries.

There's a feeling we are playing within ourselves and Klopp will not let them loose for some reason.

There is a combination of that and wanting to keep some defensive shape, illustrated by him taking Shaqiri off against Southampton.

I understand us wanting to control games more but at the same time I dont think we have the players for it.

[rawcusk8]

Other top sides seem to be coping ok.

We aren’t doing the basics and the lack of urgency last night was a concern.

Wouldn't you say we are matching the other top sides? City have set the benchmark and it seems people want us to match them stride for stride which lets face it wont happen just yet. We're up there challenging in the league and Champions League group. Last night was a shocker, first time in ages the lads have looked a bit clueless in breaking down a bus, but, we're still doing well this time round and I'm still confident we can qualify and maintain our title challenge. Keita or Shaq in the midfield from now on is a must, they can create and carry the ball when it's needed the most. 

[SlowRap]

We're missing a lad that can pop one in from 30 yards on a regular - what our opposition had when we had Coutinho and to an extend Ox is another man to worry about. A defender would go to close them down and hence break line, another would move across giving Salah/Mane/Fermino that one yard of space they need to be lethal. Take that worry away and they're tight to our front 3. It's a credit to them that they still can operate at some level without much creativity behind them. That's why City are so good, they have David Silva, B Silva, Mahrez, De Bruyner - players that can create something, pull strings and in case of Mahrez and De Bruyner pop one in from 30 yards. Replace them with Milner/Gini/Hendo and the likes of Sterling/Sane/Aguero/Jesus will not be as effective.

The positive is that Klopp knows this hence our interest in Fekir the negative is that Klopp won't adjust his tactics in the meantime to suit the players he currently has. I don't see why we won't try 3 at the back, diamond 2 up top. It's clear as day our supply line is getting cut off and our midfielders haven't got the skill set/creativity to overcome it. Seeing Milner lob long balls into the box for Mo Salah who is surrounded by 3 defenders is frustrating no wonder Salah looks like he hasn't slept for a week.

[El Lobo]

Absolutely fascinating the amount of people saying we’re missing Coutinho, when our form last season picked up noticeably after he left  Agendas indeed

[Destiny]

Oxlade Chamberlain is who we're missing, he was so crucial for us in the 2nd half of the season for why we performed how we did. We also need Naby Keita to play a consistent run of games as we all know what he's capable of producing. I remember in Naples we we're in control of the game until Keita went off and after that Napoli over ran our midfield. For me going forward we need to play a Keita, Wijnaldum and Shaqiri midfield when playing against low block sides.

[AnnieRoad93]

Absolutely fascinating the amount of people saying we’re missing Coutinho, when our form last season picked up noticeably after he left  Agendas indeed

I think its not that we miss Coutinho, its more that we miss somebody who runs with the ball from midfield. For me Chamberlain grew into this roll after Phil left and now he's unavailable its showing.

Hopefully given a run of games Keita can be this player.

[AnnieRoad93]

Oxlade Chamberlain is who we're missing, he was so crucial for us in the 2nd half of the season for why we performed how we did. We also need Naby Keita to play a consistent run of games as we all know what he's capable of producing. I remember in Naples we we're in control of the game until Keita went off and after that Napoli over ran our midfield. For me going forward we need to play a Keita, Wijnaldum and Shaqiri midfield when playing against low block sides.

Beat me to it!

[killer-heels]

Oxlade Chamberlain is who we're missing, he was so crucial for us in the 2nd half of the season for why we performed how we did. We also need Naby Keita to play a consistent run of games as we all know what he's capable of producing. I remember in Naples we we're in control of the game until Keita went off and after that Napoli over ran our midfield. For me going forward we need to play a Keita, Wijnaldum and Shaqiri midfield when playing against low block sides.

Keita needs to start next game but we were not controlling it against Napoli whatsoever. He was rubbish for the brief time he was on.

[El Lobo]

We can talk about midfield as much as we like, but if the front three don’t raise their games pretty considerably we’ll be winning diddly squat this season.

[killer-heels]

We can talk about midfield as much as we like, but if the front three don’t raise their games pretty considerably we’ll be winning diddly squat this season.

Their decision making has been awful for a while and not only when they are against deep defences but even during counter attacks. Salah on the weekend being a classic example.

[Solomon Grundy]

I think one thing is pretty clear - It's time to buck up now.

If this doesn't serve as a wake-up call to the players, manager and coaching staff, I don't know what will.

[paulrazor]

i have a feeling we will go into this break joint top. have a good feeling about the game on sunday, we should hopefully kick up a few gears

and i have something in me water telling me united might do city some damage

i am however concerned our performances havent been that great, we can only get away with that for so long and last night was a dreadful night

was around this time last year we really took it to another level and that needs to happen again

[Frank Becton]

It's ironic our strength generally has been our defence.
The front 3 haven't been anywhere near where they were last season, added to that our 2 expensive midfield signings haven't settled yet.
Firmino has been way short of form.
I do think we are missing some creativity in midfield, Shaqiri needs to play more and Keita needs to show why we waited so long for him to join us.
It's daft taking the debate to Coutinho and Fekir, but we are badly missing Ox at the moment.

[Dench57]

To be fair, City have had more players at the world cup and for longer, as did Chelsea.

The World Cup excuse is a myth. People just have to stick with it now and use it all season. Spurs had the most players at the World Cup with the shortest pre-season and then proceeded to have their best ever start to a PL season.

Comparing stats with the start of last season is fine but we have lost one player and replaced him with 4 for £250m since then, and the improvement in defence is without question with the addition of Alisson and VVD.  Unfortunately we haven't seen an impact from Keita or Fabinho yet, patience is needed and I'm sure they'll come good but we need them to do it before we're out of the CL and out of the title race. As others have said it does seem like we're missing a Coutinho/Oxlade/Fekir type, hopefully Keita/Shaqiri can be that guy sooner rather than later. The defence has improved beyond recognition but the front 3 look like they barely know eachother.

[SlowRap]

We can talk about midfield as much as we like, but if the front three don’t raise their games pretty considerably we’ll be winning diddly squat this season.

Kill the body and the head will die

[El Lobo]

The World Cup excuse is a myth. People just have to stick with it now and use it all season. Spurs had the most players at the World Cup with the shortest pre-season and then proceeded to have their best ever start to a PL season.

Comparing stats with the start of last season is fine but we have lost one player and replaced him with 4 for £250m since then, and the improvement in defence is without question with the addition of Alisson and VVD.  Unfortunately we haven't seen an impact from Keita or Fabinho yet, patience is needed and I'm sure they'll come good but we need them to do it before we're out of the CL and out of the title race. As others have said we're missing that Coutinho/Oxlade/Fekir type, hopefully Keita/Shaqiri can be that guy before we drop too many more points.

Aye, we’ll see how it goes further into the season though

[El Lobo]

Kill the body and the head will die

The head is playing shit

[Solomon Grundy]

The injury to the Ox and Naby Keita not having the impact we'd hoped for so far, is mainly where our problems are stemming from. Without having a midfielder to turn and drive at opposition defences, we are very pedestrian and easy for our opponents to deal with. And I think that is definitely having a knock-on effect with our front three as well.

[Dench57]

Aye, we’ll see how it goes further into the season though

No we won't though, only the sports science guys observing their players every week will have the slightest clue whether cumulative fatigue from extra minutes at the WC is making their team drop points, or if it's any of a hundred other reasons. There is no stats or evidence to back up this theory so people should stop clinging to it for every subpar performance. If feels like we'll get to the FA Cup final in May 2019, Trent will concede a penalty and someone will turn to me and say "World Cup mate"

[Jookie]

To be fair, City have had more players at the world cup and for longer, as did Chelsea.

I think it's more that some our absolute key players, in an attacking sense, played at the World Cup and haven't come back in sparkling form. Whether the World Cup is the reason or a coincidence I'm not sure we know without any sports science input.

I think Mane, Salah and Firmino are all struggling a bit this season. Salah probably had the most turbulent summer but he's probably been the best out of those 3 so far. Mane has been patchy but very good on occasions. Not sure how much the World Cup has affected him. Wonder how injuries have affected him recently. Firmino has been pretty average for most of the season. He didn't really play in the World Cup much but he has had a heavy workload over the last 18 months. Maybe he just needed that extended summer break that participating in the World Cup didn't afford him.

Our entire set up has generally been geared to get the best out of the front 3. It's slightly less so this year but it's still weighted towards them. It's why we play a 3 man midfield and ask them to cover the space of 4 men. It's why, on many occasions, we need physically and tactically strong midfielders over playmakers in that that midfield 3. It's all geared towards having 3 lads who can play upfront with very little defensive responsibility, in the main, once the ball goes into our half. That adds some pressure to the front 3 since most of the rest of the team is there to service them. They need to provide the vast majority of our attacking thrust and goal threat.

I'm not slagging the front 3 off. But we need to recognise that the system is geared towards them. Sometimes at the detriment of other parts of the team. If they don't then sparkle, then we don't have that much attacking threat. We really miss that 3rd midfielder who can join the attack and be the 4th attacker. To be a goal threat but also create space for the front 3. Think in the current squad Keita and Shaqiri are the only real options for that position that are fit.

Our performances have been OK to good for the vast majority of this season. The results have been excellent bar the 2 away defeats in the CL. We know we can play much better in an attacking sense. It probably needs the front 3 to give more in an attacking sense. It probably needs one of Shaqiri and/or Keita to really step up and demand a place in that midfield. They just haven't done enough to suggest they are undroppable so far. Get those 2 things and we'll be flying. That's what we got about this time last year. The front 3 (plus Coutinho) started to hit form. As we got to January onwards, AOC really emerged as that midfielder who can break the lines but also provide some attacking drive from midfield. That's what we need to see again.

[bobadicious]

Klopp has said he has changed our style of play due to sides just  passing our press , has there been to much of a change introduced
Feels like our pressing our best asset has faded away .

When we needed the press against Arsenal it didnt seem to be there. Is this a worry? I can see the change from tactics to play the smaller teams who will give you the ball alot more but when were playing those big teams who like to pass out from the back, surely thats the time we revert back to gegen pressing but it looks like we wouldnt or more worryingly couldnt against Arsenal.

[The_Nomad]

It's ironic our strength generally has been our defence.
The front 3 haven't been anywhere near where they were last season, added to that our 2 expensive midfield signings haven't settled yet.
Firmino has been way short of form.
I do think we are missing some creativity in midfield, Shaqiri needs to play more and Keita needs to show why we waited so long for him to join us.
It's daft taking the debate to Coutinho and Fekir, but we are badly missing Ox at the moment.

Yes, it's absolutely daft to be talking about the Brazilian when we achieved a better win percentage without him. Having said that, we're only missing Ox and what Keita could be BECAUSE the front 3 haven't been playing well. It's worth remembering that the last few games of last season saw a midfield of Henderson, Gini and Milner but our front 3 were superb.

Here I must stress the phrase, 'last few games of last season'. The second half of last season has given large sections of our 'fanbase' what I think are unrealistic expectations. Hence all this agonised hand wringing. Taking this season in isolation, we've had an excellent start to the league and a somewhat indifferent campaign so far in the UCL. Once Keita and Fabinho are up to speed(and I'm confident they will be soon), you'll find the front 3 getting more space to operate.

I'm optimistic. We all need to be patient and give Klopp and the squad time. We will definitely find the additional gears that we all know we have. Come on! We're all part of this family called Liverpool Football Club. 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

If you paid attention to what Klopp said you would know why the World Cup is being mentioned. He said on more than one occasion that a 3 week pre season is not how you prepare for a season and its something that we have had to do.

People bring up Spurs  lets see how they are in December and January. They also arent playing anywhere near their besr but theyve had a good start (sound familiar???)

December and January will make.or break some of the teams fighting at the top, including us. That will ultimately tell whether or not these runs will be sustained.